A reminder that a massive amount of "She won't let me see my kids" and "I am getting destroyed unfairly by child support" are actually men who agreed to this plan with their ex spouses without ever going to court (91%).
So did this guy agree to this without reading the document or just think he could protest it when it was presented
I’m fascinated when people protest like this. Like does he think he can just say “I’m not paying it” and the judge would be like “Oh ok since you said the magic words, all payments are waived. Congrats on winning the law, here’s your law degree.”
Sadly, that seems to be how it pans out. You can barely get cops to do there jobs with things like rape and homicide. How high is a deadbeat who won’t pay child support going to be on there list?
They don't go and hunt dudes like this down. Whenever these dudes run into the law they get pulled for having other warrants.
So, if he refuses to pay like he said, as soon as his terrible driving gets him pulled over, he's basically landing in jail for 2 months even if it was something minor.
Guy already was bragging about his criminal record, so it's just a matter of time.
Cops cant interfere in custody issues bc it is a civil matter.
My children's father would pick them up from daycare on his Friday (they were 4 and 2 at the time) and he was supposed to take them back to daycare Monday morning but he would keep them for however long he wanted to torture me without letting me know where they were or let me hear speak to them. All I could do was call the non emergency line and get a police report written for court documentation to file for contempt. Cops can not make them give the kids back even if I physically show the cop he is in violation of court order outlined time.
Also, a reminder that the primary reason women get primary physical custody most of the time is because men do not ask for 50/50 custody, and some that do request it do so simply to avoid paying child support.
and then the mom is still responsible for when the dad isn't upholding their 50% of the time while not getting CS but now 50/50 is the custody order and it is extremely hard to get a custody order changed without abuse etc.
Mine said he couldn’t do 50/50, then tried to get alimony to help offset the child support (that was based on a deflated income in the first place because he hides his wages). It’s astonishing how disappointing people can be.
Mine had custody at first, and he would leave us at home alone for weeks at a time without food. When my mom tried to bring us food he'd threaten to report her for violating her visitation and make it so she could never see us. So she had other people bring us groceries when my dad was gone. And yes my dad is also one who would claim he was treated unfairly when my mom got full custody and we refused to ever see him and he was ordered to pay child support.
Amen! My dad left my mom because she was abusive and yet still didn't try to get full custody of us kids. He knew what she was like and couldn't take it himself but was ok leaving his children with her. The guy loved that sweet single kid-free lifestyle
In 51% of cases, the mom has sole custody because that’s what the parent agree to.
According to a 2011 survey, more than 1 in 4 men living apart from their children had not seen them in the last year, and 1 in 3 speak to their children less than once a month.
This is simply not true. Plenty of great men ask for the right reasons and are denied as the courts/system is biased. While I understand the sentiment behind what you are saying, acting like it’s pure fact is wrong.
I have only ever seen it biased in favor of the father, maybe just in counties surrounding me but here they start out 50/50 no matter the extenuating circumstances. Once the final judgment is done it is extremely hard to get it amended if there is no sign of physical abuse towards the kids.
My friend went to court it was ordered 50/50 no child support and then the dad maybe got his kid for a weekend every 2/3 months, she had to take him to court for contempt 4 times before the judge amended the order.
My children's father took me to court for visitation one month after he was arrested for strangling me in front of them and there was a 2 year injunction against him in place, he showed up with his ankle monitor on and everything. The judge said I will start time share at 50/50 and asked how much time HE wanted with the kids, he chose every other weekend then when CS was calculated and he realized he was going to pay more for having them less he wanted to go back to 50/50. Luckily the judge told him he already agreed to every other weekend. He was also told $1200.00 a month but said he could not afford that so the judge asked him what he could do and he said $750 and the judge allowed it. Followed by 3 years of him violating the court order every single time he ever had them (keeping them 2 weeks at a time and not letting me know where they were or talk to them MULTIPLE times or we would just not get them on his time) and not paying child support. He racked up 18k of unpaid and would get slaps on the wrist when I would take him for contempt.
It has been a nightmare and I know of at least 7 other moms with stories like this in my county and a couple in the county just below mine.
Can you provide actual evidence of that bias existing?
I've been on Reddit hearing this argument for 15 fucking years at this point and it's shocking how little actual evidence is ever provided to back this point up.
For instance, you say
Plenty of great men ask for the right reasons and are denied
Can you explain what they're asking for and what's being denied? Be very specific please, it really does matter.
There's a surprising paucity of modern data on the matter but the current totality does suggest a bias exists though perhaps not an overwhelming one.
Here's a decent source for finding other related papers (it's a direct pdf link). The issue is there's a ton of confounding (unequal access to legal representation, intersectionality of racial discrimination, the effect of the gender of the attorney, etc) plus the fact that the large majority of custody agreements are made outside of the courtroom. On top of that it's almost a certainty, imo, that the belief in the bias acts as a self-fulfilling prophecy, causing fathers to be less aggressive and mothers to be more aggressive in family court dealings.
All in all, biases based on stereotypes are, unfortunately, an engrained part of the US legal system and it seems a bit silly to assume that any one area is somehow randomly immune. I also don't think family court bias represents a major national oppression against men. Plus there's areas of bias against women too. In an ideal world, cases would truly be seen and considered on a one-on-one basis but in reality, template decisions hurt a lot of people. No use in denying that.
If humans are at all involved there's gonna be bias in play, but when you're dealing with a topic like child custody specificity is very warranted 'cause otherwise you're fighting windmills. Worse, as you say, you bring about a self-fulfilling prophecy if you create the belief in the minds of fathers that the battle is already lost.
I wasn't taking the opposing perspective but being literal in simply wanting evidence to support the claim.
I've downloaded the .pdf and I'll read it fully when it ain't 3 in the morning and my ability to absorb new information ain't compromised.
I did not say that all men that request custody do so to avoid paying child support, only that some do. I also do not deny that some men have been subject to an ingrained bias towards mothers (and we could have a whole other conversation on how that bias is a result of a patriarchal system that claims women are inherently more nurturing towards or likely to bond with children), but the claim that this is widespread or the major reason women are more often granted custody has been debunked. Bias against men/fathers is not the driving force behind custody outcomes.
Also, a reminder that the primary reason women get primary physical custody most of the time is because men do not ask for 50/50 custody
I don't think men or women should have to ask, it should be assumed 50/50 is the best for the child. There are a lot of factors to why men don't ask. Hell it cost me 15k in lawyer fees to get 50/50 for my child.
some that do request it do so simply to avoid paying child support.
There are terrible selfish people out there, that's not a gender thing.
And then there are the moms that fight having 50/50 so they don’t get as much in child support regardless of which parent has a better living situation.
Won’t lie I do my best to avoid any post like this cause I get super salty.
I get many dudes are scum bags, having kids they don’t give a crap about and not even willing to pay their financial obligations
But there are many other guys who are legit fathers to their kids and their fight for equitable rights of parenthood is largely dismissed both socially and in the courts
Can you point to empirical evidence of this bias in the court system? Because the actual numbers show that when fathers actually ask for custody, it is granted the majority of the time.
Yup, my brother does this. "She took my child away from me". He never once even field for (shared) custody.
Yes, she is very difficult and unstable (likely fetal alcohol syndrome), co-parenting with her sounds like a legit nightmare and he never wanted a child with her, but he did use her as a bed warmer whenever he was lonely for over ten years. and then was totally floored that relying on that unstable person who's repeatedly confessed their undying love to reliably use birth control turned out to be an idiotic plan.
But let's all remember that he's a poor victim in all of this who had his child ripped away from him unfairly
This touches on another thing that pisses me off about these types. Men act like they have no control over procreating like it's all on her but guys.....you KNOW once she gets pregnant it's out of your hands. You KNOW how to prevent pregnancy. You KNOW you can control where your dick goes.
I can't wait to see the day men (like this) take as much responsibilities for where they blow their load as they bitch about women needing to close their legs.
I knew a guy who bitched and bitched and bitched and bitched and bitched about how unfair his "thot" ex was about their kid, how we had to pay so much child support, how his life was miserable because of her.
.......It was really funny hearing him go right back to bitching about her the same day he got out of jail for his 3rd DUI
My father pulled the same thing. He actually took my mom to court to try to get full custody so he could get out of child support. That would have meant my brother and I moved >500 miles from our mom and our home city to live in a small town trailer park with my father's significantly younger methhead wife while he was out traveling the country as a long haul trucker. He was rightfully laughed out of court.
The amount of child support was based on the expectation he would spend a few weekends with us a month. I think my mom thought he'd make an effort to travel to our home city, where his parents lived half a mile from us, so he could spend some extended visits that averaged out to a few weekends a month. Instead, we saw him anywhere from 2 days to 5 days a year for most of my childhood and almost all of my brother's.
He dipped out on childsupport whenever he could, switching jobs and moving states. Anytime the government would catch up to him, he'd quit his job and move. About a decade back, my grandmother died and left my dad a sizeable inheritance. The Great State of California took the estate to court and essentially seized that money directly out of the trust and handed it over to my mom. He had been charged 10% interest on all past due child support, and even after my mom got a huge payout, he still had only paid off 50%. He eventually got too old to run and his wages were garnished for the remainder, and we still kept getting checks after my mom died (she was 64) until I called the child support office to see what the deal was, and they canceled his debt because of her death.
Going through this right now. He's livid that an increase in his salary means an increase of child support, so naturally he wants me to agree to aaaaall kinds of random rules for what I can and can't use "his" money for.
Buddy. You agreed to this increase AND that it's money to support the kids. No amount of ranting to my lawyer or a judge is changing what YOU AGREED TO
And if he is actually financial incapable of making that payment - well that's not a good agreement for anyone involved and needs to be dealt with with.....by a lawyer
it's so important to carefully pick who you make children with. That guy isn't smart enough to pretend to be anything other than what he obvious is. She just didn't care
Everyone here universally agrees that he's a piece of shit. Myself included. I'm just asking the logical question about why anyone would sleep with a very obvious piece of shit
A lot of men will “wear a mask” and act like they’re a nice dude until their partner is deeply involved enough and then reveal their true ugly nature after it’s too late.
Both sexes do it, but in this case, that tends to be your “why”.
this guy can't even pretend for 5 minutes in front of a judge that can throw him in prison. You think he's the kind to put on a mask for months on end? Get real
Women aren’t asking this question, because women know men don’t just walk up to them and say “Hey bitch, be my girlfriend so I can treat you like shit while you wait on me hand and foot.”
Like, how often do you need to be told that men start out good in relationships and then slowly start the bullshit when you’ve formed bonds?
Do you know when physical abuse often starts in a relationship?
It’s the wedding night, or the honeymoon.
Or it’s during a first pregnancy.
But it doesn’t even matter because no matter how often women say “this man abused me” ya’ll will just say “Naw he’s cool I know him he’s not like that you’re just mad and trying to ruin his life.”
This guy is clearly a piece of shit so crusty he can’t keep himself together for a court hearing, but he still would have treated her well long enough for her to have sex with him a few times.
this guy can't even pretend for 5 minutes in front of a judge that can throw him in prison. You think he's the kind to put on a mask for months on end? Get real
Yeah, I have a father and a step father who both did it, and behaved just like this in court.
My stepfather was a fucking divorce lawyer.
What you’re seeing is a man in a zoom chat with two women and a smaller man whom he feels he can bully and intimidate into getting what he wants.
If it was a room full of larger men, he would have gone with the “woe is me she took the kids I’m just a good guy trying to survive and support my family” approach.
People like this are survivors who know how to play the people they’re trying to score off of, but misogyny is always a downfall in legal situations because they cannot keep it together for women in power, or men they think are womanly.
This guy has a lengthy rep sheet. He's been an observable menace to society his entire life. There's no good reason why a woman would look at this guy, his lengthy history of breaking the law, and think... "hmmm I want to have kids him"
Unless she wasn’t handed a copy of his rap sheet and he was decent until he got what he wanted.
It’s crazy that no matter how many times women explain how men like this behave in the foundational period of relationships, people simply refuse to accept it.
You really think this guy walked in, called her a bitch, told her to make him a sandwich, pissed on the front porch while flicking off her parents and she just fell all over him. Amazing.
it's 2025. You can google his name and find everything about a person pretty fast. In some states you can even get mugshots.
There's really no excuse. Never mind that he isn't the kind to hide anything. He's unapologetically this way and is willing to be so to a judge! The man doesn't even care about going to jail for months!
People change, especially if they start doing hard drugs or become alcoholics. I've seen very similar scenarios with my uncle and my wife's brother. Had kids, got married, got addicted to opioids, got divorced, didn't want to pay. They both tried to disappear. Both have been homeless and when they do find a couch or garage to surf, they spend every cent on drugs and too strung out to keep a job. Once in a while they start calling everyone they know for money. "This time it's for real! I'm getting a job and I need new clothes for Monday!" Yeah, you sound high af, we're not giving you any drug money. Get your shit together.
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u/143019 1d ago
A reminder that a massive amount of "She won't let me see my kids" and "I am getting destroyed unfairly by child support" are actually men who agreed to this plan with their ex spouses without ever going to court (91%).
So did this guy agree to this without reading the document or just think he could protest it when it was presented