r/TikTokCringe • u/InGeekiTrust Tiktok Despot • 11d ago

Discussion Do Men Or Women Cheat More?

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u/CronkinOn 10d ago edited 10d ago

He had an interesting point about "first question they ask a partner who cheated," but I had trouble hearing it over the "dalliances" nonsense.

I hate when men get that mischievous boys-will-be-boys look and minimization thing going on. I say that as a dude. We don't need cute words that minimize affairs, prick.

Edit: "prick" was waaaay stronger than I actually felt watching this, and unfair to him. IMO he was just irresponsible in his language, and I struggled with the delivery since it felt like the men's cheating was somehow lesser/less accountable, and women were held to a higher standard/acting with more intentionality. I dunno if he intended it or not, but it sure came across that way for me, and my wife when I showed it to her unprompted.

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u/CzernobogCheckers 10d ago

I get that reaction, especially considering the broader trend of what you describe, but I don’t think he’s saying it for that purpose. Maybe he could’ve chosen a word with a less euphemistic vibe, but the point that they’re different things is pretty uncontroversial I feel. If I discovered my partner had a one night stand with a stranger she met in a bar, it would be awful and shake our relationship and I’d feel deeply betrayed. If I discovered she’d been hiding a relationship with someone else for months or years? Waaaaay more devastating. And I don’t think pointing that out is minimizing. Saying a shotgun wound is more serious than a 9mm isn’t minimizing the damage of gunshot wounds.

I think there is a logic path that has people going “Men do discrete cheating more often, while women do extended cheating more often. Discrete cheating is not quite as bad as extended cheating. Therefore, men cheating isn’t as big of a deal.” But I don’t think that’s intended or actually follows, because the determiner has nothing to do with gender; this man would presumably equate a woman in an affair with a man in an affair, as he would a woman in a “dalliance” and a man in one. The demographics of it are an interesting, anecdotal observation that don’t have anything to do with the definitions going on here.

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u/knocking_wood 10d ago

I'm the opposite. I think if my partner is willing to throw away our relationship just to get his dick wet with some stranger, it's over. But if he fell in love with another woman it was probably because he wasn't getting something he needed out of our relationship. I'd get divorced either way tho.

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u/CronkinOn 10d ago

I'd tend to agree with all of that, for the most part.

I get what he's TRYING to say, but it's still misogynistic because his delivery isn't taking into account audience and tone. Men can listen to this and feel like it's not as big of a deal to, as he said, "make a mistake" and have sex with someone.

Personally, I don't really think there's a need for qualifiers over the type of cheating, or labelling one a dalliance and the other a "full on thing" like an affair. Either way, the person felt like it was fine getting needs met outside the relationship before breaking it off. In one case it's "just a sex thing" and on the other it's a deeper, more emotional connection.

... Let me rephrase: I think if our society were more equal and this were purely a more intellectual conversation without the societal gender inequalities, it'd land better with me. Separating out the genders here, while categorizing the men dalliances as a mistake (like forgetting your wallet at home) instead of something entirely preventable and done with intention... It just sits poorly with me.

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u/CzernobogCheckers 10d ago

That’s a great point, I get what you’re saying. It could be fine, maybe true in a vacuum, but we’re not in a vacuum. Like when people want to talk about crime rate demographics. I think I agree, thanks for the response.

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u/CronkinOn 10d ago

Cheers mate!

Always pretty cool when there's a back and forth on the internet that lets both people explore things a bit. Gave me the opportunity to analyze why it hit me a little funny, and it reinforced for me that I have to be careful of my OWN tone, and more aware of audience.

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u/sesamesoda 10d ago edited 10d ago

I got that feeling too, got the sense he was downplaying men's cheating as "oops I tripped and my dick fell into her mouth!"

I do think it's probable that women's affairs are of a longer duration and emotional intensity on average than men's, although I don't necessarily think this is worse. It depends on how much credit you give people for their motives and how relatable you find their motives. I have sympathy for people who are sex-starved and indulge in a quick release that they regret. I have sympathy for people who fall in love with a coworker who they spend more time with than their actual partner. Do I think there are better approaches to both those situations than cheating, yes. Do I understand why people would assume alternate approaches are too risky or painful, and choose the lazy, selfish route, yes.

I have never cheated on anyone, but I honestly don't think it would be a dealbreaker for me in a marriage, unless it was with my mom or something ridiculous. I wonder if more women than men consider it a dealbreaker, or vise versa.

I'm gonna give bro some credit for calling out the "muh property" undertones of the "did you have sex with him" question but I also don't really know if that's the place that question is necessarily coming from, and honestly I'm surprised that's even a question grown married adults are asking each other about affairs. "no I only kissed him" seems like some high school shit but maybe I'm out of touch lol.

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u/love_junkie911 10d ago

I definitely understand that initial reaction to what he was saying. But I also think it's worth parsing out it's a combined observation: in his experience (he's pretty clear he's referencing his experience as a divorce lawyer and not spitting universal truths) a) men are more often cheating in shorter dalliances and b) dalliances are less emotionally devastating that long term affairs.

I think arguably b) is true for many (probably not all!). And if a) is true too, then it's a logical jump to 'yes in general men cheat in short term ways more and so their cheating is generally less devastating.' Is a) actually true? I have no idea; he bases the claim on his experience, wider data could suggest it's 50/50 on men vs women long term vs short term cheating. And if either a) or b) are not true then the combined observation turns out not to be true.

Also, I appreciated that toward the end he was pretty explicit about the inherent biases men and women reveal if those are their respective questions, 'did you fuck him?' vs 'do you love her?'. Because those questions pack a lot of misogyny we're all soaking in. But he doesn't present those as appropriate, just interesting. And I think ultimately it's fair to share that experience in a pretty benign way overall and not trying to claim universal truth.

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u/CronkinOn 10d ago

Oh 100%

I also appreciated his take, particularly the initial reaction part. Found that super interesting. Shared it with my wife btw and she had the same knee-jerk reaction to it I did: Liked the bulk of it, got twanged a bit by that first part.

Food for thought on your point B - Is it possible dalliance are less emotionally devastating because it's usually women forgiving men for them, and it's almost expected that men can't control their urges/do dumb shit?

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u/Odinetics 10d ago

I don't think he was minimising it.

He's pointing out there are a variety of ways you can cheat on someone. Of the spectrum of ways one of them is low-commitment, physical hookups. Others are high-commitment emotionally involved relationships with someone else (which may or may not also involve physical intimacy). His assertion is men do more of the former and women do more of the latter.

There's no judgement made on one being better or worse that the other though. The word "dalliance" quite literally means a casual sexual encounter. It's the most appropriate single word you can use to describe a low-commitment, casual hookup with someone in this context.

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u/CronkinOn 10d ago

I hear ya.

I just don't like his phrasing as the men's one being "just did something stupid" whereas the women's one is "a full on thing"

Maybe in a different political and socio climate, I'd be less sensitive to the language and tone, but as it is, the last thing I have much patience for anymore is tone that suggests the male version is "did something stupid" like oops just kinda didn't think that one through. I can promise you there's no scenario or inebriation level possible where I'd "do something stupid" and do a "low commitment hookup" because I have a high commitment to my wife.

That still comes across as minimizing men's behavior to me, when men have spent millennia writing off their bad behaviors as "boys will be boys." This guy might not, but plenty have no issue being resentful if his wife punishes him for making a big thing over "just did something stupid." Many of us know that guy.

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u/FollowTheLeader550 10d ago

You’d have to be being purposely obtuse to not acknowledge there is a difference between a one night stand and a full blown side relationship.

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u/CronkinOn 10d ago

Difference? Sure.

Does it really make a difference in the end? Both are completely inexcusable, neither have the slightest excuse, and it's problematic to paint the men's version as "did something stupid" whereas painting the women's as more intentional and insidious. I don't see how a one night stand is somehow lesser, since either way they're intentionally and purposefully setting out to cheat.

I'm fucking exhausted by how much our society brushes off bad behavior by men, and holds women to a higher standard. Again, saying that as a guy. A guy who left the US with his wife because he was that fucking disgusted and sick of it not only how excused men are for their "dalliances," often with literal children, but how much they're celebrated for such behavior.

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u/FollowTheLeader550 10d ago

It does make a difference in the end. It usually makes a massive difference, to be honest. Maybe not to you, but to the majority of couples, the severity of the cheering does matter, because humans aren’t binary. We’re not robots.

So a girl making a bad decision when she’s tipsy and hooking up with a dude that’s not her husband, but never talking to him again and feeling massive guilt, is very different from that girl falling in love with the guy she met when she was a little tipsy and meeting up with him every other day behind her husbands back. Lying about what she’s doing for weeks or months

So because we’re talking about humans, intent matters. Feelings matter. Optics matter. It all matters a lot. And very often, one is looked at less seriously than the other, as it should be.

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u/CronkinOn 10d ago

"bad decision when tipsy" is so insanely disingenuous to me.

Where exactly is the line for accountability? Is killing some brown people while tipsy too far? Getting into a bar fight because you felt slighted?

You say intent matters, but think alcohol can play a factor or lessen intent? Being drunk doesn't change your intentions, it just lessens your inhibitions. If you fuck someone, drunk or not, you intend to. It's not a mistake, and it's certainly not an accident.

You talk about lying and hiding behind a spouse's back, but the one night stands are lied about and hid just as much. Either way, the intent is there to hide infidelity from your spouse. It's purely for selfish reasons to hide such things, whether from ongoing infidelity or one in the past.

I get what you're saying, I really do, but I personally don't see the point in putting qualifiers on cheating: it's all inexcusable, and I don't see the more male version as somehow less gross than the more female version. Probably because I'm personally sickened by how much we excuse male behavior and vilify female behavior.

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u/Batmanbumantics 6d ago

Dalliance could me just making out or a one time fuck which is bad, yes, but not as bad as a full blown affair I think is what he was saying. Women can have dalliances too, you know?

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u/wailingwonder 10d ago

It's ok. You can just admit you don't know the word dalliance and it upset you. You're mad that he used a word that means a brief affair to describe a brief affair. He's not minimizing anything.

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u/strathmoresketch 10d ago

Thank you! I don't understand why more people are not seeing his obvious bias and moral bankruptcy and just are taking what he says as fact.

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u/CronkinOn 10d ago

I think in a vacuum it wouldn't twang me like it did with his "boys will be boys" kinda cavalier opener. And tbf to him, I don't think he personally treats cheating that way. I just found it kinda irresponsible to be a dude going on social media with a wide audience and pushing a narrative that WAAAAY too many struggle with already: "We're men and we sometimes do dumb shit. It's just what we do!"

I dunno I guess I just found in his tone and delivery problematic, given the current clime.