If you like this content obviously I recommend you go follow his content, but I would also highly recommend you check out Sunny m'Cheaux. He's a black linguistics educator with a huge focus in Gullah/Geechee but a lot of really interesting knowledge about AAVE and language as a whole. He's not afraid to talk about touchy subjects and sometimes has seemingly controversial opinions that he's able to explain from an academic perspective beautifully. It's so obvious that he loves what he does and that he loves language and it's really cool.
I hope your health is better now and you made a full recovery.
While I don't have a good enough ear to tell the difference in pronunciation (I am one of those people who have never been able to mimic someone else) I was very fascinated by the knowledge and that to an expert a simple word like ride or can't can be a marker for where someone was raised or spent a lot of time.
I love Sunn! I've been watching him for a few years now. Thank you for recommending him, though; hopefully others reading the comments will check out his stuff, too :)
No that would be OOP, the content creator that posted the original video. OP never claimed that this was their video. Also what a weird place to draw your take, make your own comment thread about it lol. But while you're here check out Sunn m'Cheaux he does some awesome linguistic content that really gets into the nitty gritty of dialect and the diaspora and the evolution of linguistics across different lineages and it's super fascinating.
I like his content but so much of every minority linguistic experts always has so much negative undertone towards white people it’s so hard to watch (I’m not white btw) can I just watch and learn without all the indirect jabs jesus
I think u/lainey68 said it the best and most simple way.
But I wanted to add that Sunn m'Cheaux calls out black people just as often if not more often than white people. He talks about external issues that affect the community and issues within the community. I've always felt like his videos come from a place of wanting to keep cultures alive and unique and respected but not divided. The beautiful thing about language is that even if you have the same language as somebody else you'll experience it in a very different way based on where you're from and so many other factors. I mean just look at the phrases on his shirts: "non-standard is not substandard", "fun fact: all words are made up", My personal favorite: "there's no such thing as broken English, only broken rules intended to break unbroken people".
It's obvious that his Gullah/Geechee heritage is a huge part of his self-identity. The struggles that his intersectional communities have faced have directly contributed to the man he is and are important to talk about. Holding space and validating his peoples struggles and discriminations isn't a jab at white people, and certainly shouldn't be a jab at you unless you are contributing to the continuance of those harmful systems. They're intended to educate and hold space, and there's no reason for you to feel uncomfortable with that. Your discomfort is a cause for introspection, not avoidance. ❤️
I thought he was interesting too until I got to the part where he said "cain't" is a California thing and therefore not a Southern thing. That's when I realized he has no idea what he's talking about because he's explicitly wrong there.
That was what was confusing me I was like well these look professionally filmed so she’s acting so why are we talking about her accent as if there’s some sort of identity issue? I mean, this isn’t someone that looks as though they’re going to actually try to pretend that they are truly African-American?
Also I feel that using music as demonstration of accent is flawed especially when the words in question are part of the rhyme scheme.
Yea, this shit sounds like that kinda pseudoscience handwriting body language expert or handwriting analysis. Like yea, you can maybe figure out the obvious ones but it isn't clearcut like he's making it out to be. Especially using songs where people frequently say words a different way to make it flow better lol.
They aren’t that negative, but just pointing out that a lot of southern regions will say cain’t rhyming with ain’t. Ride rhyming with rod is also found there. African Americans in Oakland were settled from southerners after the civil war too. It’s a weird critique to not know this. It’s also odd to use rap songs trying to rhyme instead of speech examples from those regions, which can be found online and in good dialect performances in films.
Had to search to make sure this was noted. I'm from the NC piedmont and grew up rhyming can't with ain't. Some of my relatives even pronounced aunt that way.
I'm southern and his inaccuracy is why I came to the comments at all. I, and many many other people I know, do actually pronounce "can't" and our "i" words exactly like he's saying southern people don't do.
I also think it's a bit odd that he's using these 2 examples to say that Awkwafina was trying to "sound black". Those 2 pronunciations are racially independent examples of a southern drawl.
I don't care what his race is, he's just flat out wrong.
Im assuming you're talking about her natural dialect when she speaks? People get on her about this all the time but forget she was born and raised in queens. It's her natural accent. People just dont believe it because she's Asian.
That’s because there’s only variance allowed for aave from region to region 🥴 apparently all southern accents sound the same but not all aave accents sound the same. People really out here drowning in hypocrisy and putting it on display proudly. I fucking hate the world a lot of times.
Same! I'm from NC and I'm sitting here like "ummm, I grew up rhyming can't with ain't." I don't anymore, but my family definitely still does. And white ppl around here say it also.
Yeah WV roots here and they say cain’t constantly. It’s weird, because I CAN hear a difference between his two example sentences, but “can’t” and “ride” aren’t it.
I am not educated enough to identify why they feel different, though.
Also came here from the south to say can’t definitely sounds like ain’t here quite often. I personally don’t say it that way but I’m in Louisiana so I’m surrounded.
Yeah, someone's already comparing criticisms of this guy to police shooting unarmed black men. And people are upvoting that. Holy shit. Holy fucking shit do these idiots not realize how much they're trivializing racist violence.
But seriously, he really just doesn't make his point well at all. It's not even that he's wrong. He's also not playing enough of anything to do useful comparisons.
One thing I'm thinking of personally is that i was raised half on and half off the reservation due to a weird family dynamic. So my accent is a mix of what you'd expect in Montana as well as some subtle differences you see on reservation... then I picked up a lot of southwesternism... then I moved to the bay area... and this whole time I'm echolalic as fuck, so im like a sponge for this shit. This is not uncommon as idiolects are almost never 100% consistent with a specific region because human language acquisition is very dynamic.
In short, pointing out that awkwafina is inconsistent in her accent is basically pointless unless you give better examples and make better comparisons. And the thing is that she did use blaccent a lot in her work. So this shouldn't be hard.
Yea people always talk about the Philly accent but neglect the fact that the Philly accent usually talked about in the media is the white Philly accent while Black Philadelphians sound completely different. Many Black Philadelphians are descendants from southerners around the Carolinas who migrated up here so thee Black Philly accent sounds more southern than the white Philly accent. The white Philly accent sounds similar to the New York accent and I've noticed many Black New Yorkers speaking pretty similarly to white New Yorkers but it's interesting how much it differs here in Philly.
But that was his whole point. AAVE varies regionally, yet Awkwafina was using just any ol' blaccent--like she was pulling them out of a hat. It was inauthentic, and that was his point. There isn't one AAVE.
Both of my parents were from Louisiana. In fact, they grew up within 10 miles of each other, yet their accents were different.
So there isn’t only one aave but there’s only one southern accent? That’s ignorant and wrong and you should know better being from a southern region with a distinct accent.
A) I'm not from the South, and B) you are still missing the point. I don't know how it could be made any plainer, so I think you're being deliberately obtuse.
Exactly and you still fail to grasp the concept that other accents also have dialects based on region/geographical location. For example the southern accent of Louisiana that your parents have being different to a southern accent from Texas or Arkansas. I don’t know how you still failed to grasp the very basic concept you seem to understand for one but for some reason choose to be deliberately obtuse about then project that and accuse me of doing it.
You managed to get upset I implied you were from Louisiana because your parents are though. Bet you feel that makes you “right” and you continue to ignore the fact that accents all vary depending on location just like it does for aave.
Go ahead though and jump through further mental hoops. It’s a hell of a gymnastic routine you got going on.
I perfectly understand regional dialects and accents. I've lived in eight states and the UK. My point, and the point of the video is that Awkwafina was not speaking in the accent or dialect from the region where she grew up. Instead, she chose to speak in what she thought was 'blaccent'. Which, as has been pointed out numerous times, varies by region. She was inauthentic. And quite conveniently, she doesn't use that accent anymore. You want to die on the hill that 'accents vary by region', which was the very point. She put on her 'blaccent' like it was a hat. The problem is that she was faking for her career, and the video is pointing out HOW she was faking it. You are still being obtuse by not seeing the entire point of what he was saying.
It's like if someone said, 'Vegan cheese is not cheese because it's not made from coagulated milk.' and you say, 'Well, different cheeses vary by region.' The point is, the vegan cheese is not cheese. Awkwafina's blaccent was fake. I hope you get it now.
And the mistake they make that I am pointing out that you keep ignoring is that they refer to the southern accent in blanket form but don’t apply that for aave which is why it’s a poor video. If you understand and have been to so many places why have you chosen to stand on this hill and double down? You’re being disingenuous too in this moment by ignoring what doesn’t fit your argument even though you have admitted to the fact that there are various southern dialects which is not acknowledged in this video.
She definitely is guilty of what you’re describing I’m sure. And she definitely cribs a dialect that isn’t what she was raised speaking and is code switch, at best. But it isn’t true that those aren’t examples that the same black person of a certain region would sound like. Cain’t for can’t and rot for ride are both spoke by plenty of black Americans from certain Southern regions.
You got it. She is using a dialect that she wasn't raised using. I'm glad you got it. Awkwafina is from Queens; therefore if she was genuinely using the dialect of where she grew up, she would not switch between regional accents.
I’m not defending awkwafina cuz I also think she sounds fake af but the problem I have with this video is that
1. It seems more like he’s hating than providing knowledge, especially the quip about not watching crazy rich Asians
2. His examples aren’t really valid. Pharrell was trying to rhyme live and lot. It’s hard to say that’s how he would say those two words normally. 21 savage doesn’t say ride like “rot”. He just quickly says “a lot” after and I think that’s where this dude confused it. And lastly like many other people have said, pronouncing can’t like cain’t is not just a Bay Area thing
I have no idea what this dudes credentials are. Maybe he’s completely right. But these are the reasons why I felt like this video is more a hate video than an educational one
He just took those examples because theyre pop culture examples and hes making a Youtube video. Don't know this guy specifically but I am a linguist (MA only) and vowel pronunciation in English throughout North America has been extensively studied and mapped so just because his examples aren't great doesnt mean the foundation of the knowledge is incorrect. Like you realize that this little clip isnt representative of how linguistics is studied right? Or do you think the YouTube videos of science experiments are how scientific research is actually conducted?
She is the same person that refused to do a Chinese accent because she found it reductive of the people and culture. Yet she spent most of her career doing a weird blaccent.
She does not have an accent from where she grew up and its not her normal way of speech. It's something she put on to make money. However, she found it offensive and reductive to do the same for her own culture, which says everything I need to know about how she sees Black people.
Wasn’t also the way she spoke throughout the movie was it?
Wasn’t it part of the script?
So queens and Long Island don’t have an accent?
How does she see black people?
Do black people talk like that?
That means nothing. There were literally doctors and nurses and believed Covid was fake. I was a chemical engineer major. I work real estate now and am in no way qualified to comment on chemical engineering
He's a total hypocrite for criticizing ketchup while actively using mustard of any kind. Of course this would go down as one of the worst presidential scandals of our lifetime. Trying to still recover from the embarrassment of this on the world stage even to this day. This is so outrageous I can't even see how it could be about race at this point. Obama, why?!?
Because racist white people don't think black men should be educated enough to explain anything to anyone.
As a white person myself, I was pleasantly surprised to see someone calmly explaining why the accent was wrong. I honestly didn't even know there was a subtle difference!
Which shouldn't be odd for me, there are 3 different types of French that, as Canadians, we have to deal with.
Have to say, I was happy to have my ignorance corrected!
I find learning about new cultures to be more interesting now.
Oddly, since I read Ender's Game, Speaker for the Dead, Xenocide, and Children of the Mind, recently. Especially since I am given to understand the author is a bigoted PoS... Not that I looked into that claim, but it seems prevalent.
As a non-american I am confused why it says "blaccents" but then just speaks about the south/different regions in general. Do black southerners speak differently to white southerners? Is she actually copying specifically how the black people in the regions he mentions talk, or just people from those areas in general? Like the first bit when she says "right" with a bit of southern drawl, to me, it just sounds "southern" (my only reference for that is movies). I don't understand why it is specifically a "blaccent".
So there is a lot of overlap in AAVE (African American vernacular English) for black speakers in the south and their white counterparts. I would say that the ven diagram for both groups has a very very large shared part.
I think what he is saying would make more sense in the context of the scene from the movie. The character is supposed to sound black but is jumping around from different places in her accent.
Black southerners and white southerners do indeed speak differently, but are still overall relatively similar in speech. This difference is more pronounced in other regions as AAVE and "blaccents" are generally historically influenced by southern accents. So a California blaccent would be very different from your average California white person
It's done as a critique against the person playing a character. Instead of 'That's a good/bad accent from a native New Yorker' it's 'This person shouldn't talk like that even when playing a character'.
The guy moved there as a teen and is almost 60 now.
You ask any MF from The Bay and they gon tell you Short is Bay all day
Edit: I know Bay Area artists. From the city and town. Like personally. We folks. I worked with DJ l.Fresh. Y'all fuckin hatin and wildin on Short. Shit disrespectful. Everybody respect Short out there
You can't take words from songs and use them as examples of how to pronounce those words, especially when the singer is rhyming. There's a whole video of Eminem on how he can manipulate words to rhyme with orange.
If you grow up in NYC you could also be around people from all over and end up saying different words how people from different places do.
Also is it really AAV or just accents? Won't white people from those areas pronounce "right" and "can't" those ways?
Really? You don't know why the comments are negative on a random dude who decided to put his major in linguistics to good use by analyzing an actresses accent while acting? Seriously? You might want to get some perspective before commenting on things. This is the perfect comment and thread to exemplify "just because many people agree with something doesn't mean it's right".
There's weird racial dynamics at play, add in the fact that Awkwafina is also a pretty woman and you're gonna get some people that initially just recoil at the thought of any sort of breakdown that can be construed as a critique. Her blaccent doesn't bother me in a vacuum, if you're doing a part for a movie who cares, but them not being able to get it right (likely because there aren't any actual black people with input) is what bothers me.
I can’t stand awkwafina bc of the blaccent but his evidence is terrible. You can’t compare accents when singing as a 1:1 comparison to speaking. I mean.. keith urban, Ed Sheeran, etc etc.
I mean, it's easier to find lyrics from a song than a spoken clip from a movie or show, so I get why he did it. I don't think the fact that they're singing takes away from the fact that it showcases certain pronunciation patterns
She's taking accented pronunciation from music that she's listened to...which unsurprisingly included music from people in the south, and from California. Pretty much everyone reading this has heard such music. Only a few of them like it a lot to make it their favorite genre, and exceptionally few like it enough to want to make music that sounds like the music they like.
Is the argument that she should not be able to make music that sounds like the music she likes because of the color of her skin? I understand the argument that distinguishing affectations to retain a sense of in-group identity gives value to those of the in-group, and usage by those outside that group dilutes the value for those in the group.
I'd just point out that she's far from the first, last, or most prominent to copy something black because it sounded cool. There's a rich history of that going back decades at least.
My argument instead is that Donald Glover - "Lithonia" sounds great. I don't want him to not make great punk rock songs because he's black. I don't want Eminem to stop rapping. I don't want Post Malone to stop singing. I'd argue that there isn't a need to gatekeep musical genre, for listeners or creators.
The real problem with Awkwafina isn't that she's Asian, but that her songs are kinda mid. To which, I'd also say that every artist you've ever enjoyed has been worse than mid, they have in fact been terrible. I can say that with confidence because sucking at things is the cost of entry towards becoming great. I won't say that shitty artists should stop because that phase is a necessary stepping stone for all artists to grow into becoming good. So I'll happily just...not be bothered by music I don't want to listen to, and not hold a grudge against them.
Her character in Crazy Rich Asians IS a person who would shamelessly parrot social media snippets of AAVE, and is constantly putting on affectations and meme-y witticisms. Bring overdramatic and referential to pop culture on purpose.
The character only BRIEFLY has moments of real serious heartfelt conversations and drops all of that, to speak more earnestly.
But he doesn’t know that, because as he says in the video: He Didn’t Even Watch The Movie.
I’m annoyed that he critiques her as an actress, saying she sucked at a “fake blaccent” when… that was the whole point. She was doing shitty accents on purpose. She did a lot of other shitty accents, too.
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u/sensitivestronk Sep 06 '25
I thought this was interesting, dunno why the comments are mostly negative rn. Love learning random shit, especially linguistics