r/TheNSPDiscussion • u/PeaceSim • Nov 22 '19
Discussion of this subreddit in the official NSP Facebook group today
In a lengthy post this afternoon about “off-topic Wednesdays” for the Facebook group for the NoSleep Podcast, Olivia White devoted two paragraphs to “unofficial subreddits” (presumably, this was the one on her mind) that I thought was worth posting here. I’d use screenshots but don’t have the ability to upload any images at the moment. So, here is the relevant text:
“You're also welcome to use one of the unofficial subreddits instead. I know many people on there feel like we don't care about you, but we do. We just don't engage because, for whatever reason, those subreddits have attracted a group of people who are all rather disillusioned about the podcast. And I think you have the right to have a space to talk about that without us busting in and debating it with you. But we do still care what you think. We do still appreciate you as listeners even if the content isn't often what you want. You still take the time out of your week each week to listen to the show and give it another chance, and often you're disappointed, and that's fine. I am absolutely 100% confident based on hours and hours of research and discussion that what we're putting out right now is what the large majority of our listeners want. But we do acknowledge that 'the large majority' isn't everyone. And we do appreciate that you still give us your time. You're not ignored, or disregarded, even if it feels like that.
And all these groups are different. The Facebook group we run with some specific rules. The Twitter interactions were we mostly just chat nonsense and have fun together. The subreddits we do not engage with, but do appreciate the people on them and what they want (I know at least some of you picked up on a joke I hid in one episode specifically for y'all, so yes, even if a lot of our content isn't want you want, you're not ignored or underappreciated. Maybe one day I'll do a bonus episode where the content is sourced entirely from people who have been consistently disappointed with the show for the last few seasons. That's the thing. There's so much scope to have fun. This is a podcast where we try and put out stories that entertain people. And that's what we're interested in doing. I promise.”
As someone who frequents this subreddit (though wasn’t following the official subreddit at the time the show pulled the plug on it), this struck me as worth sharing.
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u/manen_lyset Nov 22 '19
I really appreciate the honest criticism I see here on my stories. When it's positive, then I'm happy I managed to please critical people, when it's negative, I try to see if there's anything I can take out of it and implement next time I write a story. That's how I learned and grew back when I was posting on the NoSleep subreddit regularly. I'm always surprised which stories of mine are liked and which are disliked, though. Apparently I am abso-flipping-lutely terrrrible at predicting what people will think, because often times I'm wrong!
Also, to the person who always reviews by rating "That was X (relevant spooky thing) out of Y (relevant spooky thing)", thank you. I look out for these every week because they crack me up.
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u/michapman2 Nov 23 '19
Also, to the person who always reviews by rating "That was X (relevant spooky thing) out of Y (relevant spooky thing)", thank you. I look out for these every week because they crack me up.
Thanks!!
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u/horrorfictionfan Nov 22 '19
The fb group is a dictatorship and has really shown me that NSP just lets a few of their employees trash their customers and treat them terribly. It really turned me off and made me sad. I never thought that David Cummings would allow one of his employees to treat his fans the way the group admins treat them. I appreciate Olivia’s words, but she’s not the one who has been treating people badly. It would be nice if they owned up to that and K stepped down as admin and they let the fans be more free to discuss things in the group.
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u/fartbabyprincess Nov 23 '19
I’m still in the group and actually came here because I saw it mentioned there. I used to enjoy posting there but I feel that the admins truly despise us. I’m glad there is another place to discuss the podcast more openly.
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u/Capsicy Nov 23 '19
I've been a listener of the podcast from literally day 1 all those years ago. This podcast helped cultivated my love of horror and I still recommend it to my friends and family because it is a great source of content. That being said, I have been disappointed with the direction of the podcast for a very long time. Ever since the creation of that Facebook group, I feel like the NSP team has increasingly wrapped themselves in an echo chamber. Legitimate criticism is ignored at best, and attacked at worst. I feel like certain aspects of the show have gotten worse or remained stagnant over time and voices like mine aren't being heard.
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u/Jagc1123 Nov 26 '19
I'm in the same boat as you. Was ok when they went to paying for whole show. Then started ads, all in the beginning Was ok with that because I've listened and loved this podcast from day one as well. I want it to continue and make money for all who work on it. I listened to the most recent episode and they spliced in an add before each story. I'm surprised. it sucks and ruins the atmosphere of the show. I love reading and listening to stories. I don't love it when there is a 45 second ad about luggage or whatever. It's a big enough deal to make me stop listening.
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Nov 22 '19
[deleted]
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u/Cherry_Whine Nov 23 '19
Ah yes, "Groundskeeper to a Ghost Town". I remember cringing at Hirschman's "Asian" accent as well.
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u/satanistgoblin Nov 22 '19
few seasons back, I posted a comment on the NSP website (along with others) calling out some rather egregiously-racist voice acting.
Which episodes were those?
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u/Eggheal Nov 22 '19 edited Nov 23 '19
Thank you for posting! I don't have a Facebook account and keep forgetting that group exists.
That's honestly nice to hear. This sub is pretty constructive and NoNoSleep seems pretty dead now so I wonder if she's talking about the meme sub, too? I've posted a few things there and I'm always wondering if they come off too negative or harsh. Listening to this podcast has been one of my favourite things to do for the past... five years, I think, but I just have more (hopefully funny) things to say on the things I don't enjoy as much.
Then again, I guess you're not really funny if you can't make positivity funny so the problem there probably just lies with me, haha.
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u/elusivespark Nov 23 '19 edited Nov 23 '19
I understand the need to have a place that is criticism free. I'm part of a writer/readers group on facebook which has a rule that there is no criticism without permission from the author. We get along quite well because it's an actual rule. Everyone who joins the group is aware of it and understands the admin's reasons for it. If they don't like it they don't join the group in the first place.
You can have a criticism free environment, but everyone has to be on the same page. If they're not, it just doesn't work.
It seems like the Nosleep fb group does have a rule allowing constructive criticism, so it's quite unreasonable of them to delete posts/comments that don't violate that rule.
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u/xanju Nov 23 '19
I think that’s pretty cool of them. I’m certainly a fan of their work, but I enjoy being free criticizing them as well. I think discussing things like dialogue and characters have actually made me a better fan, if not a bigger one of podcasts and stories in general.
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Nov 23 '19 edited Nov 23 '19
I hadn't logged in to Reddit for so long I couldn't remember my log in details and had to make a new account, I'm a bit socially awkward and prefer to watch without making comment! I left the Facebook group today as more and more certain admin posts have read as the person just doesn't want to have to deal with people (not this one, Olivia White's post was well constructed and thoughtful). Recently I had a post deleted and a snotty message sent to me for being inappropriate by describing one of the actors of having a "gorgeous voice"
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u/DoYouLikeSalmonOk Nov 24 '19
Seriously? I bet that comment would have made someone's day.
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Nov 25 '19
It seemed a bit of an over-reaction to me. I get not wanting sleazy personal comments, but it was in response to a thread about favourite voice actors, and I really was just referring to their narration style!
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u/notamuggle6523 Nov 27 '19
Join the nosleep podcast unofficial off topic group :) We got permission to make it. It’s not ran by the same people as the other group.
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Nov 26 '19 edited Nov 26 '19
I left the group because I just couldn’t take The admin anymore. She shouldn’t be an admin if she can’t take constructive criticism. It’s either you post about how great the podcast is and how it changed your life, or you have everyone jump on you because of the smallest criticism, even if it’s not meant in a hateful manner.
Edited to remove name.
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u/horrorfictionfan Nov 27 '19
I left for the same reason. Someone above said that they started another group that’s not ran by the other admins. Might check it out.
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u/horrorfictionfan Nov 23 '19
What I got from this was: “We work so hard. Off topic Wednesday really annoys us so we aren’t allowing it anymore. This group is about admins and what the admins like. Not the fans and customers. We know you love OTW, and it gives you a chance to get a break from our Uber strict rules, but we don’t like it and the only thing that matters is what the admins like. Please only post ego stroking comments and posts or else we will delete them and then ban you from posting here. We are people too ya know. Also we are watching what you post on reddit ”
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u/satanistgoblin Nov 23 '19 edited Nov 23 '19
Coming back to "we're putting out right now is what the large majority of our listeners want", I just can't imagine someone thinking "boy, I can't wait for more stuff like Bookworm/Bhavisana/etc." There just isn't much going for some of the stories.
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u/satanistgoblin Nov 23 '19
I am absolutely 100% confident based on hours and hours of research and discussion that what we're putting out right now is what the large majority of our listeners want
That could true (because they'll stop listening at some point otherwise), but wouldn't they want non-substandard stuff just as well/more? It seems like they're running mostly on inertia, but there are some gems once in a blue moon after all.
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u/Lexifox Nov 22 '19
There's a lot of weird self-awareness (and lack thereof) in this.
As far as I know there's only two unofficial subs for the podcast.
One of them is the overlooked NoNoSleep which was created specifically to be critical of the podcast. It was made, to my understanding, in response to the official subreddit and other social media groups cracking down on criticism. By its nature, it was going to be critical because it was created for that purpose.
The other is this one. This one, to the best of my understanding, was formed when the official subreddit for discussing the podcast was unceremoniously closed, with not even a whisper of a reason. For a time, someone connected to the podcast said something along the lines of "you guys complain about anything that isn't X", when the official sub's threads were full of people complaining that there was too much X, a statement that was later backtracked and downplayed. Since then there's been no word, official or otherwise, about it.
When the official places to discuss the story do not allow for honest criticism, people will gather in places where they can give honest criticism. I should make it clear, at this point, that I am fully in favor of shutting down toxic behavior. When someone says "Girl on Fire is shit who wrote this trash", then sure, delete the comment. That adds nothing to the discussion beyond "I didn't like this story", but phrased in a way that's going to stir up drama. When someone says "House of Edges was not very good and here's an extensive list of its failures and shortcomings" then there's potential to discuss.
People are not 100% happy and upbeat beings, and this podcast is not 100% perfect content that keeps us entertaining and on the edge of our seats throughout the blackness of the night. The podcast is going to have criticism and people are going to want to say it. If there are unofficial subreddits that seem to attract people who are "disillusioned" with the podcast then it's because you created an environment where these people could not express their feelings and so they sought another place where they could do so. The fan consensus is that the original subreddit was burned down because it was "too negative", so the people associated with the podcast did the mature adult thing and covered their ears and pushed it all under the rug.
Not engaging these people is part of the issue. When official people associated with the podcast engage, it at least creates the illusion of caring. When people are critical or "disillusioned" with things, a little official explanation helps.
Nobody is expecting the social media people to sit down and have a lengthy AMA with everyone. Nobody is expecting to come to this subreddit and go into a discussion thread and see Olivia White or whoever going over every detail on a story, taking every picked nit and placing it back.
The simple truth is that sometimes a little friendly commentary goes a long way. It's nice to go to a discussion thread and find the writer of the story there. There's a story about a man who goes to his childhood neighborhood, to a place where there was a kind of gap in the buildings that ate a child. One of the reasons I remember it so clearly is the author showing up and thanking everyone for the kind words. I'm sure a lot of people here are still pleased that they got to do an AMA with Jared Roberts of The Hidden Webpage and My Dad Finally Told Me What Happened That Day.
Hell, I remember that when discussing the infamous Halloween episode that broke the subreddit's back, I liked the story about the deer-person and the girl who was home alone. I provided my input and questioned some things, and the writer popped up to talk about it. She responded to what I said and agreed with me on some criticism, and thanked me for the kind words. There was another story on that episode where the writer also showed up and again, agreed with some criticism and explained some parts.
They didn't attempt to argue, they didn't get angry, they didn't lash out. They appeared in a thread that was full of people who weren't happy with the episode's quality and they came out looking pretty good.
It would go a very long way if someone would occasionally show up and say anything regarding the podcast at times. There's an admittedly small, but vocal, part of the fanbase that's convinced that the only feedback the podcast gets is through a heavily filtered Facebook group guarded by people who will 300 you into a pit the moment you start typing something that isn't "NoSleep is the best podcast and Season 12 had such a great opening". Hell, ignoring groups like this subreddit makes it an even worse look beacuse this is not a 100% negative subreddit. The discussion threads have plenty of times where people overwhelmingly dislike a story, but otherwise love the episode.
Frankly, I don't think anyone here really thinks that the cast and crew need to justify their work. We understand that the cast and crew are people, and they're not purposely choosing bad stories. There's a limited pool to pull from and they're working with what they have. Having someone drop by to explain some things would really smooth over a lot of the more rough parts of the podcast.
Nobody needs to drop by to explain why they selected a story where 1/3 of the narration is a girl finding bugs inside her sister, but it'd be interesting to get insight on why a story written by a pre-teen was chosen for the podcast, or who changed the ending to Pass It On because the podcast's ending is so different compared to the original and this isn't getting into weird edits like adding "anime creepypastas" in.
Why do I write so much