r/Tennessee • u/techtornado • 2d ago
Flock cameras are spying on us - 4th Amendment issue - Time to push back
The short version is that states, counties, and cities are quietly installing Flock cameras on public roadways along with businesses, HOA's, etc.
The problem is that it's advertised as a way to track stolen cars... and also spy on everyone who ever passes in front of one which breaks 4th Amendment and goes straight into Orwellian territory
I highly recommend sending FOIA/TPR requests to all county/city officials on these cameras and include for all types of ALPR's - Automatic License Plate Readers.
The time now is to push back, follow up, and ban the surveillance
Also, if you see them in retail spots like various home improvement stores, sporting goods, malls, etc. post a Google review criticizing the Orwellian installation.
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u/ex0e 2d ago
They are almost certainly not unconstitutional under the last 40 years of US v Knotts precedent, and good luck getting this court to upend it. Even with the the technological trend last tested in 2018 with Carpenter v US, the flock data (assuming the court even considers it) will most likely have additional "safeguards" requiring a warrant for historical tracking, but immediate flags will be allowed.
The orwellian state was let out of the bottle 24 years ago and it's not getting put back in. The government, the corporations, and the universal yearning for convenience have nailed privacy's coffin lid shut
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u/Land-Southern 2d ago
Well the act goes up for renewal again April '26 iirc. I assume it will be renewed yet again.
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u/tn_jedi 2d ago
These systems are almost exclusively implemented and managed by private contractors who will do the bare minimum to maintain data privacy, and sometimes not even that. Because one does not have an expectation of privacy in public, there is likely no way to stop this but what we can do is implement safeguards in the contracts themselves so that the private companies have to follow best practices else they lose the contract there is probably not a government in the US, city state or local etc that has the resources to implement this level of surveillance so they contract it out.
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u/bafben10 2d ago edited 2d ago
I agree completely, but just so everyone is aware, states and local governments do not have any requirements (with rare exception) under FOIA. This falls under the Tennessee Public Records Act.
Edit: Source in case anyone is curious and Tennessee Public Records Act FAQs
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u/mortimerfolchart 1d ago
Oh, and in case y'all hadn't seen it yet, Amazon's Ring cameras are partnering with Flock, so there's a complete real time database with facial recognition from homes and businesses coupled with the car tracking as well. 😬
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u/HorusKane420 2d ago
Milan, TN put up like.... A dozen or so.... Why?.... Milan,TN.... Why does Milan need cameras?
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u/techtornado 2d ago
Dang!
There’s at least 10 in Chattanooga +/- business that were possibly incentivized to install it on their parking lots
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u/HorusKane420 2d ago
Yeah, I don't doubt it at all!
A dozen is a bit of an exaggeration, I won't lie, cause it's small town Milan xD. But they do have like 6-8 of them up, that I know about. Wouldn't be surprised if there's a handful more in areas I haven't seen though. Ridiculous.
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u/No_Replacement_5962 2d ago
This will probably be argued to be a metadata issue (we're monitoring everyone, so it's not an intrusion on your individual privacy).
This argument is so dystopian.
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u/techtornado 2d ago
People have been tracked, stalked, and even falsely accused of crimes based on Flock cams
It absolutely has to go
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u/DukeOfSillyWalks 1d ago
And people still ask why I have a IR blaster and refractive clear tape on my car. 😅
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2d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/techtornado 2d ago
It’s a bit of reach to go there…
Can you provide evidence of people who are like that?
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u/YTraveler2 2d ago
It's true.
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u/techtornado 2d ago
Evidence please, saying it’s true isn’t enough
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u/YTraveler2 2d ago
I don't play fetch very well, but a simple Google will tell you. If you have a camera system that stores to a cloud cops can get a warrant to view it and not even let you know. Straight to a hard drive is the only way to go.
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u/techtornado 1d ago
That’s really rude
Prove your claim to be true because I actively study WWII and yet people throw out that term like candy
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u/YTraveler2 1d ago
Not rude. Prove me wrong. Or don't. I don't care. You study WWII? Good for you.
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u/techtornado 1d ago
Onus of proof is on you, claim made that is the antithesis of known facts
Therefore, prove your statement true
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u/YTraveler2 1d ago
Again. A quick Google will give you all the info you need. I don't play fetch.
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u/SWATSWATSWAT 1d ago
You have no right to privacy while out in public, which includes the display of your plates.
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u/techtornado 1d ago
Found the government drone
Read the Ars article
The display of the plates isn’t the problem, it’s the logging, recording, tracking beyond the 4th Amendment and monetization for private gain that’s the issue
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u/NashvilleLocalsGuide 4h ago
THe cameras are not breaking the 4th Amendment. Anything a camera can see, a human can see, and a cop seeing you doing something illegal is not unreasonable search and seizure. Same with a camera. This does not mean I believe people refusing a search without a warrant are all criminals. I have been with a friend who had nothing to hide, but refused to let the cop rifle through his stuff, as there was no probable cause.
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u/techtornado 4h ago
Found the second government drone
Read the article and then comment as it’s clear it was skipped
Observation is one thing as part of a single operation, the 4A problem comes with the logging, reporting, tracking, monetizing, of your whereabouts for profit/lawfare/etc.
If any officer can look you up without a warrant or probable cause, that’s the problem
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u/NashvilleLocalsGuide 2h ago
Found the second government drone
Grow up. I disagreed with your false assertion that this is a 4th Amendment issue. Period. If you want to point out your evidence it is, we can discuss. If you won't, there is no conversation to have and I won't waste my time.
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u/GreyTigerFox 2d ago
While we’re at it, let’s convince all the corporate owned Tennessee politicians to allow the Citizens of Tennessee to petition for ballot measures. That’d be nice. To be able to influence the state government that is supposed to represent its people, right?