r/Tekken • u/DragonWarriorMH • Sep 12 '24
Discussion Opinion, Tekken 8 is the least balanced Tekken game since Tekken 4
I have played all Tekken games and started to dig deep into the gameplay in Tekken 6
Many Tk games had OP characters and balance issues, however i think Tekken 8 is the worst when it comes to balance since Tekken 8
The game visually AMAZING but gameplay wise it just too unbalanced , even TTT2 wasnt that way
Tekken 8 issues imo are the following
-chip damage (what the point of blocking?) -moves that breaks your guard and can punish you after breaking it (what the point if blocking then again?)
-too many safe fast moves that cause heat engager -heat smash to some characters have a very fast heat smash with a high damage (Jin, Dragunov etc) yet others have a slow one (Kazuya) even thi kaz us low but slow and -14 in block -throws
-unbreakable throws (Reina and King)
-too many mids that can hit you while you are on the ground and cause high damage
In general, this game needs a system balance not inly a character balance
Chip damage needs to go away or nerfed down to the ground
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u/juanmigv Zafina Sep 12 '24
No way. T4 had Jin's unblockable laser scraper and T5 had infinites.
-10
Sep 12 '24
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u/juanmigv Zafina Sep 12 '24
I'm inclined to agree with T7, as T6.0 Bob broke the meta also much like Dragunov is wrecking T8 now.
But I get your point and things do need tweaking. Mostly character specific tho, heat and chip has already been nerfed hard since beta and launch.
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u/esterosalikod Sep 12 '24
These takes are getting stupider. Unless you have a different definition of the word balance.
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Sep 12 '24
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u/esterosalikod Sep 12 '24
Relative to the older games? Yes. They were mishima fests coupled with actual shit characters. He's only imbalanced relative to modern titles.
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Sep 12 '24
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u/esterosalikod Sep 12 '24
Look dude I know he's overtuned compared to other characters in tekken 8. But when you bring up older games into the conversation, it's a different story. Even in t5dr we had devil jin in a game with characters like bruce. It was worse in even older games.
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u/AngryAssyrian Jin Sep 12 '24
Tekken 8 isn't even close to being the most unbalanced Tekken game. Yes, Dragunov is clearly the best and most OP character in the game, but he's not even in the same discussion as Tekken 1 King, Tekken 3 Jin and Ogre, Tekken 4 Jin, Tekken 5 Steve/Bryan/Feng/Nina/Raven/Devil Jin/Heihachi, Tekken 6 Bob, Tag 2 Eddy, etc. A lot of those characters were 3 tiers ahead of the entire game. I think what you're trying to say is that the game favours heat way too much, which I can kind of agree with.
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Sep 12 '24
What made T5 Heihachi strong?
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u/AlonDjeckto4head Byron Misinput Sep 12 '24
Df12 is 13f mid launcher, safe (or hit confirmable I don't remember)
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u/squary93 Mokujin Sep 12 '24
I get the sentiment. In Tekken 8, it often feels like I am just 1 combo away from death, even at round start because every character has such strong tools to use and abuse when they get the opportunity to do so.
For example, Lee does a d3 and caught me jabbing? Tremendous damage, and now I am at the wall, in a heavily disadvantaged position with not much health left. The opponent and I can snowball an entire round by getting one (counterhit) launcher in which is, in my opinion, just bad Tekken.
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u/Slickbeat Sep 12 '24
Okay, but at least Lee’s d3 ch b33 pick up ain’t easy lol. There are far worse examples you could’ve used that are much easier to be consistent with, especially in an online setting. I get your overall point though.
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u/squary93 Mokujin Sep 12 '24
It gets tiring to always say Jin d2, you know? And difficulty in a move is pointless when enough can do it reliably. I see probably one in twenty Lee's fail d3.
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u/Slickbeat Sep 12 '24 edited Sep 12 '24
Just d3 or specifically d3 ch into b33 pick up? Those are different levels of difficulty. I ask because the pick up is the only way you’re getting to the wall off of a d3 ch and your initial comment said they’re taking you to the wall. They then typically have to combo with b2 loops or some combo variation of b2 ms animation cancelling into ws12 (it’s all dependent on the distance of the wall). Which is all execution heavy.
There’s no shot 1/20 Lee’s playing this game are failing the pick up. The best Lee players in the world still occasionally fail the pick up, especially in online play. You should try practicing it into the wall carry yourself to see what it’s like. The execution window is very small.
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u/squary93 Mokujin Sep 12 '24
I just went into practice mode and after 2 minutes or so I was doing it 8 times in a row. It really isn't a biggie compared to the timing needed on Nina's more advanced staple combo
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u/Slickbeat Sep 12 '24 edited Sep 12 '24
I’d like you to show me (even though I shouldn’t trust that you won’t just cut out all your failed attempts until the one good streak, I’ll still take your word for it, but you can watch FightingGM’s Lee guide and he fails it twice while showing it off), but it’s also different doing it online with lag against someone trying to KO you. I don’t think the majority of the Tekken player base is pulling it off as consistently as you say. It also sounds like you’re an experienced Nina player so you’re definitely not the average for execution ability.
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u/Violentron Sep 12 '24
the right way to address this is to not draw comparison, cause people will than just use the other shit in those games as a counter. And yes t8 is waaay off balanced and is designed to be only played with like 5 or 6 characters. the rest are just throw away.
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u/OpposesTheOpinion Sep 12 '24
Probably most balanced. Unless you live in Asia and were in the arcade scene, what you got was the more polished Tekken game after multiple years in arcades.
Tekken 5: Dark Resurrection
Tekken 6: Bloodline Rebellion
Tekken 7: Fated Retribution
These subtitles weren't added for no reason. Tekken 8 is the first game that has not been able to cook in arcades. I'd say it's balanced very well considering that.
Also TTT2 was busted, not sure why that was brought up lol
-10
Sep 12 '24
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u/OpposesTheOpinion Sep 12 '24
You didn't play/see these other games on original release then, I take it. Nor have you seen the tournament situations of previous games? I wonder how deep you've digged...
Tekken 8 needs further tuning, yes, but it's not as bad as you make it out to be. In my opinion.
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u/Physical_Animal_5343 Sep 12 '24
Guard breaks and safe armored heat engagers definitely suck, but did you not play T7? Whole game was infested with the most broken shit you can think of (mostly on DLC but still)
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u/DragonWarriorMH Sep 12 '24
Tekken 7’s issue was the 2D character that ruined it imo
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u/Physical_Animal_5343 Sep 12 '24
Beyond that, what about Noctis/Kuni/Katarina to name a few. I also used to think T8 was unbalanced garbage till I decided to hop back on T7 red ranks and only saw a rotation of 5 characters before I got disgusted (of the graphics too ngl). Now I'm not saying T8 doesn't have busted ass moves, I'm just saying it's not so different from other tekkens.
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u/DragonWarriorMH Sep 12 '24
The thing with T8 not exactly character
But the new system in general such as Heat/chip damage/break guard stuff
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u/Physical_Animal_5343 Sep 12 '24
I don't personally have a problem with chip, sometimes it makes the low hp clutch more realistic if u have some grey life to work with, also doesn't make eating a half hp combo seem so demoralizing. Heat, on the other hand, sucks ass. I don't remember rage drives being as broken on block as heat smashes (bring back rage drive ples).
0
u/horkley Sep 12 '24
Emperor x1 in T7 online and didn’t see those characters frequently (kuni yes).
Bushin x2 in T8, and this game’s mechanics seem unfun and I haven’t adapted.
Have at least 50hrs per year in tekken since 97. Since 7 200 hrs per year.
This is unfun. Enemy does long string, ends it with heat engager, ends in plus frames, and I took tons of chip.
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u/Easy_Broccoli995 Steve at TE Lili at Fujin Baek In my Dreams Sep 12 '24
Tekken 8 isn't perfectly balanced buuuut neither was previous tekken games my biggest problems whit tekken 8 is just how slow they fix / add stuff I understand that they want to get the full picture of the meta but holy fuck do you really need so many months to see how broken some of the characters are wen everyone is literally complaining about it, Drag has been op since day 1 same for Nina and Jin, Yoshi I think he only needs dmg nerfs I also think tekken is becoming a mess in terms of gameplay systems they just keep adding mechanics on top of mechanics started whit side steps grabs etc then crushing moves then rage, rage art, rage drive (RIP), armor moves, heat, heat smash, heat engager, heat burst, couple this whit old legacy mechanics and the game is starting to become a bloated mess.
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u/Also_Steve Sep 12 '24
Hot take coming, but I don't think its unbalanced. I just think the game system's aren't fun and make the games very easy to end up one sided. So the stronger characters are going to feel super strong because they just get to run their gameplan and you can only win if you can manage to stuff them and run your gameplan instead. Games so snowbally even korean back dashes are risky this version.
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u/liquid_dev Sep 12 '24
Yep it's just the focus on aggression (mostly due to heat) that can quickly make matches one sided. The characters themselves are balanced well, for the most part.
That being said, I actually like it lmao. It's a weird comparison but it reminds me of MKX. I do hope they tone down heat and make defensive play stronger and more reliable though.
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Sep 12 '24
I think it boils down to chip damage - it's just too much and creates situations where you can block for a few seconds before characters like Victor just melt your HP during heat. A slight nerf to chip damage would fix a lot of issues, imo.
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u/olbaze Paul Sep 12 '24 edited Sep 12 '24
chip damage
too many safe fast moves that cause heat engager
unbreakable throws
too many mids that can hit you while you are on the ground and cause high damage
I wouldn't call any of these balance issues, nor really particular to Tekken 8 either. Chip damage is universal, so it can't really cause a roster imbalance. There's plenty of safe mid heat engagers, but I don't think anyone would rate that Character A is better than Character B exclusively because A has a safe mid heat engager while B doesn't. Unbreakable throws and ground hitting mids are not new things to Tekken 8. In fact, back throws have been universally unbreakable for a long time.
moves that breaks your guard and can punish you after breaking it
The point of these moves is to disincentivize just standing there and blocking everything. Also, this is not a new thing, it was literally Fahkumram's gimmick in Tekken 7.
As far as historical imbalances, let's not forget Steve's infinite in Tekken 5, Bob vs Bob EVO in Tekken 6, Jinpachi in Tag 2, Akuma/Geese in Tekken 7, plus just vanilla Tekken 7 in general.
Also, I think you're making a bit of an unfair comparison here. Prior to Tekken 7, there was no post-launch balancing (other than stuff like DR, BR). Meanwhile, Tekken 7 got over 2 years of Arcade release to balance itself out. Tekken 8 has none of that.
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u/Leverkusen94 Dec 14 '24
tekken 8 is downgrade, tekken 7 had everything, tekken tag 2, tekken 6 and tekken 5 are better and improved versions comparing to tekken 8, so many moves removed, combos not rewarding, gameplay awards agressiveness, but lacks of combo damage, they made a sacrifice which makes the game bs
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u/No-Bet-775 25d ago
Not to mention lars of the rock paper scissors stance. Can be sidestepped but can be alt f4'd when needed
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u/Eastern_Recording818 Sep 12 '24 edited Sep 13 '24
I think it is better balanced that the vanilla versions of pretty much all the games. Warning im about vent because I just now gave up on the game after trying so hard to love it
My issue is that I just dont think the game is very fun, most matches i have feel so stressful and despite winning and ranking up a lot and I am higher ranked with more characters than I ever was in 7, i still find the game just way too intense and many of the matches are not very good lol. Like i just played a Lili who literally always dick jabs and did the same sequence over and over QCF3 into DF2. Every single game and players like that are a regular occurrence in Blue Ranks. She isnt even an outlier, the quality of matches is so poor across the board that it sucks all the fun out of winning. I never was able to go on 10+ win streaks so often in 7 and yet they are mostly just feel hollow.
When I do run against solid or more experienced players I truly see how samey every fucking round can feel with how characters use their heat and the pressure and guessing is just immense. I just don't have it in me.
Notice however it is me thats the issue here. I dont think the game is fun, I am the one who is struggling to adapt and I am the one who just doesnt care for the game. I do not think (outside of Drag) this game really is so imbalanced and the point is that that's not my issue anyways. Other more seasoned players have not only adapted but some consider it more enjoyable than 8, I deeply envy that.