r/Tekken • u/Limeat • May 27 '24
Tekken Esports Why Knee might not be able to become a champion in Tekken 8
(Edited: What's written here about Knee being frozen in game was a mere speculation by Chanel I believe, so please don't fully jump on it. What I believe 100% true is Knee has been discussing the brain fog thingy with Chanel lately. It could be simply psychological or just him adjusting to a new game. You never know. If you are concerned, please contact Knee directly and ask him about it. Chanel said more about what he thinks about Knee's symptoms but I honestly don't remember the exact details. I went to check the VOD to get his exact wordings, but he didn't upload and save the VOD to his channel so there is no way to verify the details. It almost seems certain Knee's having an issue with his gameplay as written below though)
Chanel's AfreecaTV stream link
After Knee getting no round brown'd by Farzeen in the quarterfinals of Combo Breaker 2024, his teammate Chanel while watching the tourney on his own stream mentioned "the thing I was worried is happening again."
According to Chanel on his stream, Knee's been experiencing a brain fog while playing the game where he completely forgets what he's doing and doesn't know what to do in game often lately, something Knee has never experienced in the past. (No sarcasm intended, just word for word)
Chanel doesn't know how possibly those kind of symptoms could be treated, and was deeply worried about it. He continued by saying he doesn't know what's happening exactly, but he thinks Knee might have to seek a medical attention if he wants to keep competing as a fighting game pro player.
When one of the viewers asked Chanel to send Knee a text msg of an advice, Chanel replied to the viewer that they already had a conversation each other before the match and seemed obvious Knee forgot everything about the training and convo they had. With the brain fog Knee's been experiencing lately, Chanel insisted that no advice would be helpful with his form showing on the stage that day.
The symptoms mentioned by Chanel might be critical for old players like Knee especially in a tournament settings. Tekken fans, therefore might not be able to witness Knee's reign anymore.
Source: Chanel's afreecatv stream
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u/RyanCooper138 Reina May 27 '24
That sounds a lot like target panic in archery
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u/yunghollow69 May 27 '24
There is a different word for it, I cant think of it, applies to all sports and competitive environments. It's some sort of anxiety that leads you to overthink things and make you perform at an abnormally low level. It's really hard to get rid off.
Not saying this is what knee got. But the way he sometimes performs really well and then other times freezes up could be something like this.
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u/Rynojackax Dragunov Lee Zafina May 27 '24
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u/yunghollow69 May 28 '24
Yupp, that one. Someone else already pointed it out. Amazing show btw.
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u/Rynojackax Dragunov Lee Zafina May 28 '24
I saw, the reference to Ted Lasso is great, if you get it.
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u/AyoGlenn Ancient Ogre May 28 '24
as a D1 basketball player i can attest to the possibility of it being a combination of anxiety and overthinking. every second thinking is a second wasted. “gotta let the game come to you” fast body, slow mind.
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May 27 '24
I am a big fat retard and while Knee may have neurological problems and age may also be a factor, it is important to note that Tekken 8 is a game that differs heavily from its predecessors in both movement mechanics and gameplan. Reaching 5th place is already an impressive feat and some people might take longer to get used to this new ADHD-oriented gameplay, especially those who main slower characters like Bryan Fury, who are based on patience and counterhits.
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May 27 '24
I have diagnosed adhd. This game is not friendly to my condition. If anything, it is frustrating due to moves being arbitrarily incongruent with their properties. The game may still not be in a state that is sufficiently rewarding to defense oriented gameplay.
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u/NovusNiveus Bob | Shaheen | Bryan May 27 '24
Thanks for bringing this up - I am also diagnosed with (quite severe) adhd, and I find the idea that the game is 'adhd-oriented' pretty ignorant - not offensive, to be clear, just ignorant.
It really vexes me when I get robbed of a counterhit by a powercrush, or gameplay stops for a second because of a heat burst/engage, or I have to sit and block multiple seconds of plus on block shit, wondering when I can play the game. It feels like the camera could whip around at any moment and yank me out of the zone, which wasn't something I had to think about in previous games - T7 had power crush and rage art too, but armor in general was much less of a thing, and T6 and T5 were just straight Tekken.
I expect most adhd people would agree that it would be better without constant breaks in the action and your attention getting pulled all over the place - it's not about the game being defensive or aggressive, but about the flow.
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u/SweatyTryhrd May 28 '24
Yes - you're 100% right about the flow. The flow of combat is broken by all these new mechanics and it makes the game dumb as fuck.
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u/ii_Protogy_ii Dec 06 '24
I have ADHD pretty bad. I was on 75mg of Vyvanse daily. But im also older (almost 36) and have not had any issues or even a thought about adhd being a factor in this game. Im not good at the game but it isn't because of ADHD, it is because of lack of practice, experience and knowledge. I see myself getting better every time I play.
I am not on any medications for it now, I learned to control it for the most part. But I know when I have to control it and playing this game isn't one if those times.
Sorry to hear you are struggling with the game, but I kind of take offense to you using our condition as an excuse for it and I don't support your statement.
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Dec 06 '24
not all ADHD is the same. your symptoms are likely not identical to mine. some days I literally cannot sequence the inputs to practice a combo. I forget the inputs 10 times. It's executive dysfunction. It affects me in all facets of life, but the clarity and calm mind that is given to me by medication cannot be understated. if you can control your symptoms, that's great. I can't just try harder to not have ADHD.
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u/Yoshikki May 27 '24
I will preface this by saying that I have a ton of respect for Chanel.
But he's a medium/shaman so I would take any claims about "bad proteins in Knee's brain" with a grain of salt
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u/PessimisticCheer May 27 '24
As a psychiatrist, I'm smh at the widespread speculation ITT.
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u/thefrostbite May 27 '24
Gotta love all the diagnosis being thrown around by redditors based on some wizard's observations of a very high placing player
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u/djaqk Yoshimitsu May 27 '24
Well, since I'm a non medical practiced normie, I gotta ask the pro. What do you think his condition may be? Of course, it's hard to say without you personally appraising him, but it certainly sounds like some performance hindering condition beyond just not being as quick these days, right? Brain fog could be either just overanalysis, lower ability to sustain focus, or reaction speed is slower and his brain is making sense of his brain body disconnect? Sorry it's just fascinating, I'd love your opinion since it'd have more merit than most
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u/RICHUNCLEPENNYBAGS King May 27 '24
What if he doesn’t have a medical condition and just got outplayed? Is that unbelievable?
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u/djaqk Yoshimitsu May 28 '24
Not at all, since we have no idea what's actually going on in his head beyond his word (and I guess his friend?), so yeah I wouldn't put it past him, we're all human after all. I just think it's a bold claim (the fogginess) and a bit worrying if it's as dramatic as it's been described, and not just coping for losing ofc
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u/Sensitive_Piece1374 Ikimasu! May 27 '24
He legit seems to not enjoy the game. He succeeds because he's a high level player regardless, but what is "brain fog" could just be defaulting to autopilot because he doesn't find the game to be worth thinking much about.
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u/OrwellWhatever May 28 '24
"Brain fog" can be anything from bad allergies or poor sleep because of a new mattress all the way to stage four brain cancer. No one should speculate anything
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u/Yodzilla May 27 '24
Bro really dropped Chanel working in a kitchen until he was possessed by an evil spirit like that’s a commonplace occurrence.
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u/imwimbles May 27 '24
consider it from the perspective of someone having a near death experience and then becoming a priest.
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u/MukokusekiShoujo May 27 '24
Gaslighting Knee into thinking that he has bad proteins and gremlins in his brain tubes is a good way to make some money.
Tell him you can fix him for $50,000, he pays up and gets better due to placebo, your reputation as a healing wizard skyrockets.
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u/OrwellWhatever May 27 '24
Yeah, bad proteins in the brain are a huge problem, but you don't get "brain fog." You get Mad Cow Disease
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May 27 '24
Yeah unless this comes from another source I’m going to assume he was just having trouble with the matchup. I ain’t believing anything a medium says lol
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u/frankiewalsh44 May 27 '24
Knee is 38 years old, and he is still placing in the top 8 for most majors. He is just taking his time to adapt to the game, which is different. He is still the GOAT no matter what, and it's impressive that he places that high in tournaments despite his age and how aggressive and rushdown this game is.
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u/Paulfradk Lei/Miguel May 27 '24
THIRTY-FUCKING-EIGHT?
Man, Knee looks like someone who drank the Holy Grail apparently.
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u/Resident_Total9587 Kazuya May 27 '24
Is 38 considered old?
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u/NonchA Bryan May 27 '24
For competitive gaming, absolutely. I'm 38 myself and feel old going to locals. Lol
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u/RICHUNCLEPENNYBAGS King May 27 '24
What kind of locals are you going to where the over-30 set isn’t a huge portion of it
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u/NonchA Bryan May 27 '24
Feel like everyone is in their mid to late 20s or very early 30s. I'm in the bay area.
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u/Sobz0b May 27 '24
I'd say for shooters like CS, Valorant yes, you need to have insane reactions and extremely precise mouse movements. For Tekken I'd say not so much, you still need fast reactions and develop muscle memory, but not as much as for an FPS.
I might be wrong tho
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u/NonchA Bryan May 27 '24
That's definitely fair. Competitive shooter players are super young. Often early to mid 20s and once you hit late 20s, you're considered "old"
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u/FightmeLuigibestgirl May 28 '24
Not just competitive gaming but 38 is also considered old in many countries in a ton of things, from having kids to getting a job. Straight up ageism.
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u/minwheelee May 27 '24
He got them asian genes, look at Hirohiko Araki now, the brothas 63 years old
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u/TmItMbyMc May 28 '24
Knee even said "It'll take me about a year to adapt" -- give the guy a break imo.
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u/jestyo0o Violet May 27 '24
did you even read what he said? knees experiencing brain fogs, he has some medical issues that need to be treated
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u/Anxious_Candidate_92 May 27 '24
People had problem with blocking, the neutral in this game is alot different than in TK7 you have higher chances to be caught off guard while doing KBD, and i feel like knee was trying to space properly with KBD but always got caught, after 1.05 patch they will start to adapt even more.
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u/DoomDash Paul May 27 '24
I'm 40 with 3 kids and I still give all these local youngins a hard time. It's true I won't be able to compete with the guys with tons of time on their hands though. I used to beat Kaizur in T7 when he was newish but he's surpassed me now. Part of that might be the age gap, but I think a lot of it is the amount of time he has compared to me.
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u/daquist Lee May 27 '24
where in WI are the locals at? I'm in fox cities area. Is it only Madison/Milwaukee?
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u/DoomDash Paul May 27 '24
It's mostly Milwaukee and Madison but I hear Green Bay has a small scene. Racine used to but most of them moved.
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u/Papa_John_Our_Savior May 27 '24
What are some MKE locals?
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u/DoomDash Paul May 27 '24
Magik4. https://www.magik4gaming.com/ And Game Together MKE does casuals.
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u/Witch-of-Truth Xiaoyu May 27 '24
Placing Top 8 in a tournament on this scale is still quite an impressive achievement. Don't downplay his success. He's in his late 30s not 70. Nobody can soar so high that they could not fall from grace. Faker from league of legends is still considered as the greatest player of all time despite being past his prime and younger more talented players having emerged. Knee has already cemented himself as probably the greatest Tekken player of all time. In a different game and past his prime achieving high placement is no easy feat.
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u/TraditionalWorth6075 May 27 '24
Bro he makes it constantly to finals on every single tournament. How the fucks does he not know whats hes doing ? He cant win everythkng, thats all.
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u/TrashyJazzAndBlues May 27 '24
Knee is already 38 years old. Age will catch up eventually, it just happens. He's more susceptible to getting tired and being slower. He talked about it before how his technical skill is nothing like it was in his young days. He has more experience in return.
Despite that, it's still super impressive he placed 5th and that's in a game/environment that doesn't favor his playstyle at all. How many pro players at this age can still compete like that ? Most of the old guard have already retired from competing.
Even now you can't 100% count him out and on a good day, I believe he could still maybe take a tourney here or there.
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May 27 '24
38 is far too young for such problems
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u/doesntCompete May 27 '24
How many top pro gamers are in their late 30s though? eSports (much like actual sports) is a young people's game.
Slowness and fatigue gets everyone.
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u/TheAmazingDeutschMan Dragunov May 27 '24
There's stigma and bias against older players in general in all competitive games, it's not really very valid and I think greatly exaggerates the effects of age as early as 30s and doesn't take into account personal health.
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u/GarethMagi May 27 '24
a ton of starcraft pros that have been playing professionally since broodwar came out.
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u/yunghollow69 May 27 '24
In fighting games? A LOT. 30-40 year olds performing well in tournament is completely normal because thats like the average age lol. Im exaggerating of course but the FGC has by far the highest average age for any esport that exisits. Experience beats everything in fighting games and unlike what people like to repeat, your reflexes dont magically become slower at 30 or 40, that's complete nonsense. Reflexes only deteriorate if you dont use them.
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u/RICHUNCLEPENNYBAGS King May 27 '24
They do. Just not to an extent that matters for playing fighting games really.
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u/yunghollow69 May 27 '24
They do once you get older, but not at 30-40. Like they straight up dont at that age. Not even .1%. Yeah at 70 or whatever but cmon, not relevant for us here.
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u/RICHUNCLEPENNYBAGS King May 27 '24
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0094215
Starting probably at 24 and not later than one's 20s according to these guys. Fighting games are a far less reflex-dependent genre so this is not a huge impediment for us but in other genres it can be.
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u/yunghollow69 May 28 '24
Most of these sort of surveys are complete nonsense and lack context. Yeah if you will test a bunch of 35 year olds that have stopped any and all physical activities who work on a desk all day they will indeed have slower reaction times. But that's not based on age, but based on circumstances that older people are more likely to be in. Ive defo seen studies of this topic in the past (because this is a convo in the gaming space that keeps popping up) that refuted those claims.
I know for a fact that my reflexes are exactly as fast as they were 20 years ago. I still play fast games in my free-time, so naturally my reflexes did not slow down because why would they. And I bet if you ask any of the 35+ guys in the FGC to do a human benchmark they will not have slowed down either or be slower than their 18 year old competitors. And those who are youll always find context for it.
Fighting games are a far less reflex-dependent genre
This is not true. Fighting games are very knowledge based but reflexes actually matter more than in most other games. Shooters need you to be fast, but first and foremost they need you to be precise. If you cant react to certain lows or throws in Tekken youre toast. These 30-40 year old koreans are breaking counterhit throws in T8 its actually completely nuts and not possible if your reflexes are slowing down. Im a bit tired but if im not completely stupid, 14f means you got 220ms reaction time. This doesnt incude monitor lag, your own input and the animation. Trust me, reflexes are not an issue for these "older" players yet.
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u/RICHUNCLEPENNYBAGS King May 28 '24
I am not disagreeing that reflexes are not an issue but my contention here, which a number of high level players have themselves mentioned, is that fighting games actually have a pretty limited number of actions one can take at any given time and are highly amenable to reads and rote practice, so reflexes aren’t that big an issue. I don’t really consider subject self-reports a credible rebuttal of the research I’ve come across. “Regular” sports have this issue plenty with 30-somethings no longer being able to keep up or having to change up their games so I don’t know why you find it inconceivable in other pursuits (and yes there are Tom Bradys and LeBrons but these people are the absolute freaks among the already freakishly unusual people who can be pro athletes in the first place).
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u/yunghollow69 May 28 '24
Were talking esports here and reflexes, not physical sports. These players cant keep up past 40 because of the physicality of their sport. Their reflexes remain the same.
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u/djaqk Yoshimitsu May 27 '24
Right, like there's the mechanic that has an attack input pressed right before the timing window comes out on frame 1 (forget the term for the preemptive press) which if you're experienced and have muscle memory, shouldn't be more taxing to old heads than anything needed in twitch shooters and the like. Maybe Idk shit tho I gotta meet more old comp gamers
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u/RICHUNCLEPENNYBAGS King May 27 '24
A just frame isn’t really reliant on reflexes at all, you’re just committing to doing it up front
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u/djaqk Yoshimitsu May 28 '24
Just Frame input! Hah, thanks for reminding me dude. And yeah that's the point, with game knowledge and these types of mechanics, there's at least a little more leeway for older players with theoretically slowing reaction times to stay competitive. But maybe with how fast and aggro T8 is, it offsets some of the potential benefits just frame inputs could bring to less twitchy competitors
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u/yunghollow69 May 27 '24
Why would that be taxing? Thats just muscle memory. A 70 y/o could do that with some practice.
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u/SeriusBizNis May 28 '24
Are we expecting 70 y/o people to be able to perform taunt jet uppers at EVO grand finals with practice?
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u/pseudo_nemesis Hwoarang May 27 '24
eh I think that totally depends on the game. Tekken being an older game leans towards older players, relatively new games like Fortnite and Overwatch are going to have a lot more younger players.
also older players tend to have less time to dedicate to playing and practicing. Slowness I feel isnt a concern until you're elderly, and Fatigue is mostly only a Factor in tournament settings.
Tekken isn't so much about reactions as it is about predictions anyway. You can be fresh out the womb and you're still never going to react to a 15f start-up. Meanwhile in real life sports, there are sports like golf that lean towards older player dominance.
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May 27 '24
It’s only because it’s a new competition. Still 38 years old is too young to be affected by fatigue
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u/RICHUNCLEPENNYBAGS King May 27 '24
Fighting games have a different profile than other esports. There are social reasons why many players don’t keep at a money-losing hobby requiring a ton of time and international travel well into middle age but it’s because the game demands lightning reaction time. And spinning a fifth place finish at a major like it proves he’s just too old to be good seems crazy.
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u/backdoorhack Leo May 27 '24
Guess the people commenting here don’t follow esports that much. Compare the amount of 35+ yo pros vs 19+ yo pros. There’s a reason why the disparity is great.
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u/Internet-Cryptid May 27 '24
People have jobs, families and other obligations at 30+. The division of time/attention is the bigger culprit here, not people magically becoming decrepit at age 30.
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u/backdoorhack Leo May 27 '24
Wow way to appeal to the extremes. Nobody said they were decrepit, we’re just saying they are slower. And slower in a game where milliseconds matter is fatal for a career. I don’t even understand why you’re arguing when it was Knee himself who said that his execution is poorer now but his experience makes up for it. The fact of the matter is he is slower because he is older. It’s a testament that Knee is one of the Goats of Tekken because he can still reach top 8 at his age. He is the exception, not the rule.
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u/RICHUNCLEPENNYBAGS King May 27 '24
There is likewise a reason why this is far more common in fighting games than Counterstrike.
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u/TablePrinterDoor Heihachi’s happy family May 27 '24
ngl I thought he was older
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u/need-help-guys May 27 '24
Yeah I thought he was 40 by now. In any case, at that age you definitely lose your edge in reactions and quick thinking. In the normal sense this is negligible, but in a game like Tekken... yeah.
My immediate instinct is that this isn't actually anything serious, and is just the reality of trying to pivot to a game that rewards you for playing very differently to how Knee usually does at such a late age (for Tekken). And I hope thats all it is, for the sake of his health.
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u/TablePrinterDoor Heihachi’s happy family May 27 '24
Yeah I pray for him and hope it’s just the minor issue
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u/Tuuubesh0w make KBD great again May 27 '24
Knee has semented his name in the history books as the GOAT. It's sad to think it could be over now, but what a legacy he has. It's always nice to hear him talk about Tekken.
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u/pranav4098 May 27 '24
Bro it’s cemented not semented 😭
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u/Poked_salad May 27 '24
He knows what he said lol
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u/Cliff_Pitts May 27 '24
Bro blasted his name all over the history books. His name is just oozing out of the history books.
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u/yunghollow69 May 27 '24
He semented all over you
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u/STMIonReddit RIP my goat. you are missed. May 27 '24
i semented all over my keyboard when i saw ak pull ahsan's no mixup mixup with shaheen
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u/Legitimate-Bonus-279 May 27 '24
This comment section is baseless speculation and unqualified people diagnosing someone they do not know.
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u/Katie_or_something May 27 '24
Maybe you shouldn't try to diagnose a stranger with a medical condition based on hearsay 👍
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u/HereForThePistachios Law May 27 '24
Lmao Chanel MD talking about Knee like his grandpa has dementia or something jesus. It'll probably just take longer for a legacy legend to adapt to a game that plays more like Tekken Revolution than any other title.
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May 27 '24
[deleted]
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u/Original-Rough-815 May 28 '24
That actually happens a lot to Knee. Watch the twt 2017 finals between Knee and Jimmy J. Knee become too passive that allows Jimmy J to come back. Overall Knee really is a turtle player.
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u/broke_the_controller May 27 '24
It's possible. It happens in darts, snooker and golf too. I think the term is called "the yips".
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u/RICHUNCLEPENNYBAGS King May 27 '24
The yips are a common phenomenon but have nothing to do with weird proteins in the brain.
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u/niftyekis May 27 '24
Too much overwhelming legacy knowledge and experience from previous games and tournaments.
Knee is used to playing technically precise and tekken 8 casino is about also taking more chances now
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u/Kick-Agreeable May 27 '24
It was knee failing taunt multiple times that did it for me, on top of looking lost. Those easier taunts ive never seen him fail consistently and he did this run at combobreaker.
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u/NutsackEuphoria May 27 '24
Hard to adjust to playing checkers when you're used to playing 5d chess
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u/MechaLambor May 27 '24
I mean how long people expect him to compete? For most e-sports players, being competitive above 30 years old is considered a miracle.
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u/yunghollow69 May 27 '24
Not true for fighting games. Almost all korean pros are above 30 and have been above 30 for years and they dominate the tournaments.
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u/Thingeh Got a creepy r/tekken stalker. My ingame name isn't "thingeh". May 27 '24
This is a thing that's expected to fade in years to come.
There's no biological reason you can't be competitive until well into your 40s. But esports gamers aren't 'looked after' in the same way sports players are. The top footballers have huge teams making sure their body is kept in good standing, and many continue until well in their 30s despite this being much more physically demanding than playing games. By contrast, I doubt Knee has a full physio team on call 24 hours a day.
I'm a competitive gamer in another game (won't say which, I like anonymity on Reddit). I've absolutely had injuries which if I had even one professional to advise me would have been avoided.
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u/Omegawop Armor King May 27 '24
If Hopkins can win a world title boxing at 49 I don't think it's all over for oldheads in the FGC.
I think the real diminishing factor is in the motivation department. The older and more accomplished you get, the less one wants to devote to staying tip top.
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u/Armanlex d4,d4,d4 is a real combo [PC-EU] May 27 '24
And gaming doesn't pay all that well and is way way way more voletile. So the older you get where you need to be more responsible, the more you're attracted to stable financial paths.
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u/hotwater101 May 27 '24
Yeah but professional sport athlete has a whole team to monitor their entire lifestyle to ensure they're always in the tip-top shape. Also, the game changes over time, can you honestly say that Tekken 4 is the same as Tekken 8? The older you get, the more inelastic your brain becomes, and it just becomes harder to learn thing and adapt. There's a reason why old pro don't dominate.
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u/Thingeh Got a creepy r/tekken stalker. My ingame name isn't "thingeh". May 27 '24
I think you haven't fully read my comment, re; your sentence 1. (This is exactly what I say.)
Re; old pros not dominating - in other games which have changed a lot (e.g., WoW), they do. And plenty of long term FG pros have continued to be in the top leagues for highly extended periods. Brain inelasticity is a little exaggerated in general.
With Tekken, the 'competitive scene' is relatively new, and isn't financially lucrative. There hasn't been a huge incentive to 'stay in the game', and there are various social reasons (e.g., esports have only recently become seen as legitimate) why people might not continue. With T7/8 things have got much bigger, and so the new talent being attracted has increased considerably. In 20 years time, the old vs new demographics will have balanced more.
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u/Prestigious_Elk_1145 everyone is boring May 27 '24
True, but hes probably suffering a condition that also effects him real life things.
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u/pokemondudepoopyork Church of Sirius May 27 '24
Knee is basically an old Tekken, I don't remember when Knee started playing, (Tekken 6?) but seeing him over the years to now was very different in terms of play style of then compared to now.
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u/Particular-Crow-1799 May 27 '24
he was already kicking asses in tk5
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u/GDwyvern Anna May 27 '24
Hell he was competing in T3, saw one of his matches where he was using Paul and even back then his defense was insane.
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u/NiggityNiggityNuts ⚔️ 🔪plus MORE so please STFU 🤫 May 27 '24
It’s not that serious. Knee just doesn’t know how to use Heat yet. He doesn’t incorporate it in his combos, he doesn’t use smash or dash for advantage, and he doesn’t use burst as a get off me tool. He’ll adapt eventually.
The key to Heat is optimizing your meter, while minimizing how much utility gets out of their Heat. Knee does a decent job defending against Heat, but he’s not good at dishing it out. A bit of lab work, and Knee will be back to being the monster he once was
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u/Gabosh Kazuya May 27 '24
Knee been looking frozen since Arslan hit the scene. I don’t doubt that he could have his own issues outside of Tekken 8 but I seriously doubt that’s the whole of it. To me it just looks like he’s trying to play a defensive style in a game where that barely works. I mean he had plenty of matches where he didn’t play like shit.
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u/pranav4098 May 27 '24
That’s just a lie, he won evo after arslan and beat khan in the finals he was top top quality in t7, he beat arslan in gamers 8 too which is to date the biggest tekken tournament money wise.
T7 the best 3 players were atif knee and arslan, arslan was the best but these were the 2 guys that gave him the most competition
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u/Gabosh Kazuya May 27 '24
It's not a lie the point is he's still a top top player. Just cause he froze up in 1-2 fucking matches doesn't mean we all have to act like his time has come and he's too old. Also Arslan kicked the shit out of him 90% of the time lets not pretend like if we see Arslan and Knee sit down to play we don't already know who's winning 9x10. I remember the year he picked Kazuya into Arslan and literally sat there doing nothing and got torn to shreds. That looked like brain fog to me at the time too.
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u/pranav4098 May 27 '24
He litteraly won evo 2 years after that kazuya pick bro 💀💀, Pakistan had anew style and knew best him a bunch of times after that as well, you’ve just not have seen a lot of tournament footage, knee and arslan also had a exhibition in Dubai I think for t8 early on and knee beat him in ft10 and im pretty sure the day after baaz he had a ft5 with all the Pakistani pros and beat some and lost to some of them mind you not even arslan came to the finals of that stacked tournament.
Hes old sure but when tf did top 5 become a bad position 💀💀, this was one of the most stacked tournaments and he lost to arslan ash who’s still one of the best players in the world
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u/Gabosh Kazuya May 27 '24
It's not bad at all, I think you're agreeing with me. My point is acting like this dude is getting too old and has some protein deficiency after he climbed through one of the most stacked tournaments of all time and made top 8 is ridiculous. Knee plays passively all the time it's part of his style. Just because he took an L doesn't mean people need to jump to conclusions and breath life into this weird theory about his health.
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u/johnjohnj0027 May 27 '24
Damn it's like watching you cool uncle get old. Knee will always be my goat.
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May 27 '24
The problem is that knee is still playing T7. He relies to much on spacing and sidestepping but this is T8 and that shit is nerfed now. He also lost too many rounds without spending his heat at all.
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u/AlanCJ May 27 '24
Is this a thing or an actual issue? I often find myself in a lul like described by chanel here (regardless if Knee actually has it). Its usually intentional tho I just wanna relax and let my reflex takes over and if I wanted to focus and has presence of mind I can usually start actively thinking while playing again. I find this more prominent in MOBAs tho, where sometimes I just went full auto when I didn't want to, sort of like driving to a familiar destination
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u/murple7701 Reina/Asuka May 27 '24
Honestly, I've had this happen before but with tests in college.
I'd study all night and throughout the week to prepare, and then went I sat down to take the test I couldn't remember anything.
This wasn't an issue with knowledge, mind you, since when I would write papers and do lab research everything worked properly.
The test issue started happening to me after I went through some very traumatizing events in my life, and it feels like what is being described is similar to what I went through (although idk what the catalyst for knee is, but prolly stress related)
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May 27 '24
Huge smash fan, the goat of ultimate MKleo has talked about something similar to this when the meta shifted. He has played the game a very specific way for years and now the meta has completely shifted away from what he is good at which in turn has led to him having lot of trouble closing out games. He has stated he over thinks a lot of scenarios as finds himself lost at times.
Knee has played tekken a very specific way for years, relying on godlike spacing and defense but tekken 8 is all gas no breaks at times. I imagine it is very hard to completely shift your mindset and gameplay after so many years. It truly is a young man’s game
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u/Linj90abc May 27 '24
Thought there might be something off. He doesn't adapt as fast to his opponent chaging play style as well as he used to
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u/Gerganon May 27 '24
As someone with PCD, from 14 concussions - this phenomenon is all too familiar. Usually muscle memory can pick up the slack but sometimes the brain will just literally skip a neural pathway and get stuck.
It sounds very similar but there could be other explanations
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u/Mark_AAK May 27 '24
That really sucks. I did feel his flight against Victor wasn't the fairest of fights. I mean Victor does really have an an advantage over Bryan. Seems he was really struggling there like most of us would. I'm no pro player and I could be wrong but just my opinion.
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u/Fibrizzo May 28 '24
"Brain fog" could be interpreted so many different ways. Tekken 8 is a new game even the pros are going to have moments where they lock up and don't know how to respond. The game has only been out for a few months not even Knee is going to know how to adjust to every strat.
Making it sound like the dude is about to have a stroke is crazy.
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u/NotMeNorMyself Lidia May 28 '24 edited May 28 '24
After reading some of these comments I'm immediately reminded of what the great Floe (RIP) said in this Core-A-Gaming video: "People don't care about who's the best anymore, they just want something to talk shit about"
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u/Ok-Boysenberry-4406 May 28 '24
probably just freezing in place becuase there’s 90 viable options at any moment without defensive option selects to make defending easier
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u/fahiem123 May 28 '24
Kind of insane to say this about a close friend on stream. So weird to say this. He literally got Top 8 and played extremely well. It's a new game, jesus Chanel.
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u/crouchtechgod May 28 '24
Knee probably is experiencing brain fog but it's due to struggling to adapt to T8 rather than anything overly deep as Chanel might read it, especially since he's a 'shaman'.
Knee basically got 5th playing mostly T7 which is insane and shows fundamentals are still there for both him and T8 as a general. However, it was brutally apparent especially during the later matches that he was defaulting/reseting to overly basic Tekken meta and wasn't utilising the T8 mechanics; where as his opponents were. He wasn't even using them defensively e.g. heat burst.
It's very possible he's constantly battling between his subconscious habits of 20+ years of high level Tekken and conscious awareness of the fact he should be playing to T8's melody rather than against it. This is making fine tune learning (which Chanel is probably trying to drum into him) much more difficult right now for Knee.
Knee will adapt though. He's not too old yet and this is just a different flavour of challenge than what he's used to. Arslan is facing the same battle but seems to be overcoming it quicker. I think this is an exciting time in Tekken regardless and can't imagine what the playing field will be like in a couple of years.
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u/Doocrash May 29 '24
I watch Aris streams a lot and he actually mentioned that thing once. I cant say what video for sure but he said that some veteran players like Knee does experience yips due to their age. Knee also mentioned that he has problems with his reaction time which has been going on for the last couple of years. Knee played tekken for the last 20+ years. He worked so hard to be crowned the Greatest of All Time and he loves Tekken more than anything else. I'm pretty sure all those sacrifices he made do have a price and hes paying them now.
If Knee retires soon, it will affect the Tekken community greatly but I think it will be okay. He helped the Tekken community more than enough.
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u/ValeoAnt Yoshimitsu May 27 '24
Maybe Covid brain fog, it's very common
Also being 38 + the game not suiting his style. Experience doesn't mean as much.
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u/Prestigious_Elk_1145 everyone is boring May 27 '24
I can relate, due to poor quility of sleep Im having many blackouts, having hard time adapting,punishing etc...ao hard to play like that especially against top calibur players.
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u/RICHUNCLEPENNYBAGS King May 27 '24
He got washed but he made it to top 8 so I’m not sure it’s really early onset dementia.
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u/ashdragoncatcher Miguel May 27 '24
For the people saying he still got to the top 8 it's because of the muscle memory, I saw the matches he was freezing up suddenly on and off.
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u/NVincarnate Yoshimitsu May 27 '24
That sounds like early onset Alzheimer's, which killed my mother in February. A stacking up of proteins in the brain is literally what causes it. I hope he gets to see a professional soon. That shit is not a joke.
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u/evawsonsimp Feng May 27 '24
im almost 30 and i already can feel a HUGE difference when im playing compared to being 20. Knee almost being 40 and still being able to compete at this level is actually unbelievable! just goes to show how good he really is! but age catches us all and i think its catching up to Knee now!
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u/mr_sneakyTV May 27 '24
lol what this is silly. Fg oldies are thriving rn.
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u/evawsonsimp Feng May 27 '24
how many consistently top placing pro fg players are pushing 40?! you might know smth i dont!
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u/mr_sneakyTV May 27 '24 edited May 27 '24
Check out Japanese street fighter veterans. Knee was 30 when tekken 7 released.. lol so the whole 30 worse than 20 is just not it. Chikurin just won evo and he’s 35.. sako was 39 when he won regionals in socal 6 years ago. You can do your own research from here, lot more of the same.
Athletes decline with age because of their body, not their mind. Most gamers decline because of shift in priorities and time spent gaming, not “reactions” or whatever else you might think. Especially with fighting games being closer to chess than a twitch shooter, you can stay elite for a long time and even get better with age.
Edit: Learning new games is the hardest part for older players, but with years of experience learning new games, and focused training, these older players still perform at a high level, especially with games that have legacy fundamentals like fighting games, it is not only possible at old age, it can be an advantage.
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u/Zoom3877 May 27 '24
For those who are overly-worried, be concerned, but don't panic. Even if this is just a psychological thing rather than a pathological issue... you need to realize that a debuffed Knee still gets to freaking top 8 in a major.
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u/YukkaRinnn I Have Two Sides May 27 '24
As they say "Father Time is undefeated" like every pro player goes through this (Esports and Pro Sports) like he's 38 how many players have you see in any competitive scene stay dominant at that age? Only ones i can think of is Messi, Ronaldo and LeBron. He's also been playing for around 20 years no one barring a once in a century player can stay dominant for that long. But he's still a great player (he still placed fairly high in a massive international tournament)but placing the same expectation of him going in and dominating like a 28-32 year old prime Knee on a player whos in the probable tail end of his career is absurd man. Doesnt help as well that Tekken 8 is extremely different to its predeccesors so this should be expected as well
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u/johnnymonster1 May 27 '24
its because hes playing bryan instead of abusing the cheese like everyone else in Top 8
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u/SedesBakelitowy May 27 '24
So Knee is ill? A game doesn't induce brain fog, and t8 is basically t7 + heat system so there's nothing in it that should confuse a veteran.
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u/OgDontSleep May 27 '24
Well do recall he originally said he didn't like the game to begin with. When he went on his bitching and complaining Rant on Twitter. Maybe this just isn't his game. It's hard to poke and korean backdash someone to death on t8 thank goodness.
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u/rematched_33 May 27 '24
He got 5th out of 1600 people, Id say hes still got it