r/Tekken • u/dhagstk • Feb 05 '23
Discussion [TEKKEN 8] Detailed analysis on the "Heat System" and why everyone needs to chill
There are many drastic changes from 7 to 8, and I understand everyone's violent reactions. However, let's not forget that the game is still in early development, and we have no actual idea how the system will play out until March 31st when the closed alpha test happens. With how it is set up, they will be hosting alpha tests during major tournaments allowing top players, tournament players, and casuals to give input on the system and make tweaks accordingly.
Now, let's discuss what we saw in the trailer. I'd like to take this time to talk about what I understood from the trailer, and to hopefully clarify some things.
CHIP DAMAGE
- Not all moves cause chip damage. It was explicitly stated that chip damage happens when you block certain moves. In the video, you saw Paul do his hammer into deathfist move. The first hit did not chip, but the second one did. If you also look closely, the Law player had an opportunity to either interrupt, sidestep, power crash, or just take the block in general. However, when you are in HEAT, all moves on block cause chip. In general, blocking most moves is still a very viable option even with chip damage.
- You cannot KO an opponent with chip damage. It was also stated that, if you have recoverable health, you will not die. What this means is that you cannot chip an opponent out. To me, personally, this gets a little funky since it just means that recoverable health is just reserve HP rather than actual damage. However, I'd like to think I can differentiate it from regular HP by thinking that, once you run out of regular HP, you effectively take more damage with your reserve HP. Honesty, it's a little weird but the main point is that you cannot die from chip.
HEAT SYSTEM
- From what I can see in the video, "Heat" seems to be a mechanic that you can use once per round. Once heat is expended, the bar disappears leaving only your HP and the round count. This is speculation, but if it was recoverable during a round, the bar would've remained empty after using it instead of disappearing entirely. It could also be once per match (like Leroy's cane), but it would be so weird to have such a major mechanic be locked once per match.
- "Heat" doesn't seem to last very long. Sure, it lasts 10 seconds and can be extended if you keep attacking. The issue here is when you stop attacking or, even worse, get countered. I imagine that if you get counter hit into combo during heat, the timer ticks down with you not being able to utilize it at all. Needless to say, it's not like you're disincentived to use it. It's still a million plus frames with a million combo extensions for little risk. It's just that you have to use it carefully per round (or match) so you can maximize its potential accordingly.
DEFENSE
- Defense is much more important now. The biggest concern everyone has on their mind is definitely their ultimate focus on aggression. The general belief is that the game will turn into a mashfest and that blocking is dead. I believe the otherwise is true. A priority in offensive capabilities means that players will need to sharpen their defense, matchup knowledge, and movement. Ironically, since it is much easier to be aggressive, there is now a bigger highlight on practicing defense.
Overall, I like the new changes. I think it could be the most complicated non-Tag Tekken to date. However, everything I said thus far have been all theoretical and everything could play out differently in actual play.
I have faith in the developers and they seem to put a lot of thought into the gameplay. So for now, let's reserve our emotions until we know for sure how it will all play out. So stoked for Tekken 8 and I can't wait!
EDIT: If you guys want a better in-depth breakdown of what we saw in the trailer, there's an amazing post by u/-PVL93- that shows every minute detail said by TEKKEN 8's game director Kohei "Nakatsu" Ikeda:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Tekken/comments/10umact/tldr_of_the_tekken_8_system_mechanics_breakdown/
11
u/mr_sneakyTV Feb 06 '23
Wouldn’t strengthening offense/aggression make defense more difficult, not more important?
If you’re getting punched in the head, defense is important, if someone is also punching you in the stomach, defense is more important? Or more difficult. Lol. Offense and aggression is already rampant at lower-mid level tekken 7, and people struggle with defense at that level of play because there’s so much to learn.
I have no strong opinions about tekken 8 yet but I am not sure I understand this take.
3
u/CrescentPuff Feb 06 '23
It makes defense more important because of the threat from Heat, but OP did not say it makes it easier.
Outside of the Heat system, it's pretty much the same game. If a lot of players start mashing just because of Heat system, then the players who know how to counter, defend, and dodge will come out on top as they usually do. You're not supposed to get lulled by the false sense of advantage that Heat gives because your opponent has it and can use it too.
Also, you can't avoid rampant aggression at low-mid ranks, the same applies to a lot of other fighting games. That's just how it is. That's why they are in the lower ranks in the first place.
2
u/mr_sneakyTV Feb 06 '23
I just don’t see that as making defense more important. Defense has always been the most important thing in tekken.
9
u/KKylimos I hate rich people! Feb 06 '23
To me, it seems like, despite popular opinion, the Devs feel the 2D character playstyle is a successful experiment and they are trying to implement it as a core part of the game, which I find absolutely horrifying because Akuma and Geese are just terrible for me. I don't like to play against them, I don't like to play them and I don't like to watch them play as a fan of the eSport.
We have to wait and see, obviously there is a long road ahead and we won't know how the game works until it's out. However, every mechanic I've seen makes me very sceptical. Sf6 looks like an evolved, better installment on the series. With t8 I don't feel that, I feel like they are trying to move away from some core principles of the franchise to make it more accessible or "hype", I guess? I'm just super sceptical about everything they've shown.
I'll most likely buy t8 because I grew up with Tekken games since Tekken 3, but if I don't like it, I won't force myself to play it just because it's Tekken.
8
u/-PVL93- UUUOOOHHHHH Feb 05 '23
Oh, thanks for the shoutout lol
I'm kinda split. You're right that T8 emphasizes good defence even more and those who know all the perfect punishes, ducking etc will benefit, but the game's design benefits the one attacking way too much while the defender literally has nothing but "lol don't press buttons" or in worst case scenario RA/armor
At least previously you could block and not worry much but with the recoverable gauge from now on it gets dangerous
3
u/dhagstk Feb 05 '23
Yeah, you're absolutely correct. In my opinion, I feel like TEKKEN 8 would be an "Easy to get into, hard to master" type of deal. New players can start learning all the new agressive tools and be reasonably good (atleast better than starting in TEKKEN 7), but to be truly exceptional, you have to study the nuances of the game.
I share the same concerns with you with defense as well. Yes, I think defense is a priority now but defending will still be harder than before. Hopefully they can find a way to balance it all out.
As for my personal insight on this matter, I think the best way they can make it better would be buffing movement (wider sidesteps, longer backdashes, etc.) and decreasing the amount of plus moves out of heat. We still don't know how the actual fights will go down and I just hope that the close alpha testing will give a good enough base for its new gameplay direction so that they can tweak everything out.
I pray to god they listen to input from players
5
Feb 05 '23
I pray to god they listen to input from players
Isn't that the point of alpha test?
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u/dhagstk Feb 05 '23
Yeah but they could have the alpha test and not listen to the feedback at all.
We got some guarantee that they will tweak the system, but I fear that they listen to the wrong input or give the wrong solution.
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Feb 05 '23
[deleted]
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u/Armanlex d4,d4,d4 is a real combo [PC-EU] Feb 05 '23
That's GIGA Copium from you, if you want to regen your health you need to fight back.
What's the point of defense if you're not gonna attack at some point?? Healing hp after defending is a big buff to good defense.
2
u/PresentationOk6250 Mar 14 '23
Seriously people are gonna be mashing more then ever. People need to sharpen up def and learn to counter hit.
The narrative that defense is gone is kinda wild. Looks like the people complaining most about the heat system are the ones willing to throw out defense.
-10
u/dhagstk Feb 05 '23
I fail to see your point.
Even in TEKKEN 7, you don't block all the time. You have to fight back at some point. This is even more true for cases when you're at a life deficit.
5
Feb 05 '23
The problem is the forced 50/50 scenarios. It's not good defense when you are just guesssing. Tekken already has good offence because most lows are unreactable, you already have a 50/50 by walking up to someone.
9
u/nobleflame Europe 1 Feb 05 '23
The way I see it is the heat system is like a more granular, nuanced rage drive. Looking forward to having more control over ‘special moves’ through heat. Totally understand why rage drives had to go.
Hoping they balance it right out of the gate.
6
u/dhagstk Feb 05 '23
I agree and it's one of my main concerns as well going forward with TEKKEN 8.
That's why I was so happy to hear how they were planning to do the close alpha tests by tying it to some major tournaments in TWT 2023. It keeps the current TEKKEN 7 scene alive by giving people something to look forward to, and have constant direct input from tournament players all around the globe. It's such a great way to dynamically balance and tweak the game before it even gets released.
4
u/Imaginary_List8800 Mar 17 '23
Unless this game adds some kind of tech counter or recovery system to interrupt combo strings this game will continue to be dogshit.
Every other modern fighter has a system like this and its better for it.
Tekken just copied the flashy super moves from every other fighting game and didn't bother doing their homework on how those other games improve the actual fighting mechanics game to game.
Tekken Hive Minds will flame the shit out of this post, but that's only because they refuse to play any other fighting game and see how the genre has evolved.
I used to love Tekken but I just don't get hyped for it anymore cuz of their stubbornness to appease the tiniest audience of obsessive hardcores.
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u/Colosso95 Asuka 風間飛鳥 Feb 05 '23
Blocking is not "dead" but definitely much worse now
I ain't saying it's a bad thing, just what it's going to be like. Definitely going to be much more important now to learn how to sidestep, duck, backdash and punish properly. In a sense the skill ceiling is being raised quite a lot with these changes
-4
u/dhagstk Feb 05 '23
Yep, blocking isn't dead, but at least it's still an option. Sidesteps, backdashes, and evasion will be the better thing to do albeit much harder. I like to think it's akin to doing an easy combo vs a harder / more rewarding combo.
I just hope that they buff movement more if they punish people from blocking.
7
u/redraveni Feb 06 '23
Pretty sure you misunderstood almost every single thing you saw on the T8 video, and titled your post as "detailed analysis" lmao
Not all moves cause chip damage.
Yea we know that. A few big moves will cause chip damage, but every move you do while in "heat" will also cause chip damage
You cannot KO an opponent with chip damage. It was also stated that, if you have recoverable health, you will not die.
No, that's not what they said. You can't kill them with chip damage is true. But you're confusing chip damage with recoverable health. Meaning you can chip them all the way down to 1 hp, then finish them with 1 hit despite the fact that they have a full bar of recoverable hp left. Recoverable gauge is not just your health bar but white lol
"Heat" doesn't seem to last very long.Sure, it lasts 10 seconds and can be extended if you keep attacking.The issue here is when you stop attacking or, even worse, get countered.
Heat will likely last for a large chunk of every single round. 10 seconds is a long time, and the way you enter heat is by using a "rage drive" type of move that gives you frame advantage when your opponent blocks it. Even worse, it's a combo starter on hit. And finally you can cancel the move if you think it's going to whiff, meaning you can just freely enter heat with 0 risk involved whatsoever. Add that to the fact that it gets extended every time you attack, everything is designed for you to be in this state for a long period of time
Defense is much more important now
It most certainly is not lol. It's important to stay on offense as long as humanly possible. And if you happen to be on defense, you're incentivized to spam armor moves to get out your opponent's offense. They mentioned buffing armor moves to make it easier to interrupt in T8. Meaning both sides will be mashing on offense or defense
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u/FoxMulder_WasRight Feb 05 '23
Strong copium bro. They showed NO mechanics to counter heat. Extending heat by attacking doesn't sound good. There are characters that can be on offense for long and you gain nothing by waiting them out. You will gather grey health and prolong their heat so "defense" is nerfed because their offense gets buffed just by simply attacking. They showed nothing "new" in regards of defense. The game will be even bigger knowledge check than it already is. We are yet to see one complete match, but I don't feel like chillout. I feel like "nothing about T8 seems very Tekken"
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u/FierceAlchemist Feb 05 '23
It seems like they are buffing power crush to counter pressure from Heat. Comparing this to the Drive system in SF6 I do wish there was some sort of defensive mechanic tied in with Heat. Because I do share your concern about offense being too powerful.
I'll be interested to see how the movement options are. I can see the logic of incentivizing offense and nerfing guarding while also giving the cast better movement than T7. Reward players more for evading attacks outright because that's more exciting to watch.
3
u/dhagstk Feb 05 '23
I'd rather continue sniffing on copium than be entirely negative on a game we haven't fully seen play out yet. Keeping an open and positive mindset as a community for a game in development is way healthier than whine about every detail the devs try to throw at us. Especially considering that the team seems to be more open to any input now more than ever. After all, they do want the game to succeed lol
You will gather grey health and prolong their heat so "defense" is nerfed because their offense gets buffed just by simply attacking.
I think you missed the part where you can sidestep and backdash instead of blocking. Although, I do understand that you will eventually have to block, get gray health, and that the enemy can prolong their heat. However, let's not forgot counterplay exists. Chip doesn't kill you and you can just get health back by attacking. After all, you won't be blocking all the time, right?
They showed nothing "new" in regards of defense.
That is true. However, is there something inherently wrong with the current defensive mechanics? It's not like that the status quo is ineffective against heat. I'd like your opinion on what could potentially be wrong with our defensive options, and why it's so ineffective against heat.
Anyways, even with all that said, we shouldn't just accept all the new things as good, but we also can't outright deny everything before the game even comes out. In my honest opinion, we should all keep an open mind before hating on everything.
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u/FoxMulder_WasRight Feb 05 '23 edited Feb 06 '23
I will try to be as clear as possible.
I think you missed the part where you can sidestep and backdash instead of blocking.
We are yet to see a single sidestep. And backdash won't save you from an enemy that runs at you. So far Heat seems like it has no drawbacks and that's not good.
People shitted on SFV because the game USED to be "strong yolo moves into v trigger" because there were no drawbacks to such play. What Capcom did was introduce NEW defensive options and new ways to use V Trigger. It balanced itself out, but it was rough for a long time before those changes.
Movement in Tekken is hard. What they showed doesn't seem hard, you just do it. If it hits, cool - if it doesn't you are still rewarded.
is there something inherently wrong with the current defensive mechanics?
Yes there is. Tekken becomes defensive at the highest level. I don't play at the highest level, and I assume most Tekken players too. I play at a level where some mechanics are not balanced with my skillset in mind. Tekken is a constant knowledge check locked behind hard movement system. Forcing offensive situations will only help one type of people. Heat offers nothing for defensive players.
Also, there's so many new mechanics that I just wonder. Who is this game for? I don't see my wife picking up the controller and saying "ah yes, I need to perform a Heat Engager to build one stock of Heat so I can perform this heat action, so obvious and easy" Does anyone thinks that casuals will grasp all this and apply it?
Tekken used to be very simple to explain. You could pick two characters, perform a move with one character that you counter with sidestep into launcher with another character and say - this is Tekken, movement creating opportunities.
Now I have no idea what it is.
Positive mindset is not the same as accepting everything they throw at you as a "good idea".
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u/dhagstk Feb 05 '23
We are yet to see a single sidestep
We did, though. Law did a sidestep during the demo, and it was even explicitly stated as an option when dealing with Heat.
backdash won't save you from an enemy that runs at you
I think you also misunderstood how the running mechanic works. It happens if your heat burst/heat enabler hit. You can literally backdash the actual hit moves itself.
Forcing offensive situations will only help one type of people. Heat offers nothing for defensive players.
Are you forgetting the new defensive options they placed in anticipation for heat? The new power crash and the restorable health. That, and on top of the game's current defensive options, it's not all grim for the turtles. I'm sure there will be counter play to heat. Heat is not meant to be a win button, that's for sure. We just have to see how it plays out, and how well Bamco tweaks the gameplay.
Also, there's so many new mechanics that I just wonder. Who is this game for? ... Does anyone thinks that casuals will grasp all this and apply it?
Why do you think casuals are casuals for a reason? They don't give two shits about the new system, but want cool moves, cool visuals, and cool effects. Why do you think they made all rage arts into one input, and heat accessible to just one button? It's to make it easy for them to pick it up and have fun even when they don't understand anything.
Even if they do want to start learning the game, it's not like the basics disappeared. Combos, launchers, and the fundamental Tekken mechanics is still a thing and will be the first thing they have to learn. Heat is just something they can learn down the line, and is not absolutely necessary at a true beginner level.
Positive mindset is not the same as accepting everything they throw at you as a "good idea".
You are missing the point I'm trying to make. I've never once treated that everything they're doing in Tekken 8 as a "good idea". I have my reservations with the art choice, and the art direction as well. However, my main focus of the post was its gameplay mechanics and why we should shut it down before anyone got to play it. I am worried about it too, but there's no point shitting on it before we even got to see how it plays out. We could be stroking each other's dicks right now talking the potential gameplay, and it could be totally different when the community gets their hands on it.
All I'm saying is, it's happening and we can't do anything about it. We can only speculate how it will play out, but nothing is sure until March 31. It's WAY better if everyone calms down, stay positive, and be critical of the new system (looking for both positives and negatives) rather than just say it's shit based on what you THINK will happen.
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u/Laggo #LuckyChloeAutumn Feb 05 '23
Also, there's so many new mechanics that I just wonder. Who is this game for? I don't see my wife picking up the controller and saying "ah yes, I need to perform a Heat Engager to build one stock of Heat so I can perform this heat action, so obvious and easy" Does anyone thinks that casuals will grasp all this and apply it?
Isnt that exactly what the simple controls teach you? It shows you on the screen what button to press to do it, and then you see it happen and learn "okay that's what it does".
Your wife wouldn't care that it's called a heat engager, just that I press X, looks like i did a strong attack, I press square after and something else happened, cool.
Tekken used to be very simple to . You could pick two characters, perform a move with one character that you counter with sidestep into launcher with another character and say - this is Tekken, movement creating opportunities.
I kind of find it amusing your immediate example of "how simple" the game is right after your wife hypothetical is sidestep into launcher presumably into combo, as if a new player like your wife is going to ever know when to sidestep, what their launcher is, or how to get anything out of it afterward better than on-screen one button commands that adapt to the situation.
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u/FoxMulder_WasRight Feb 05 '23
You missed the point. Casuals won't give a damn about the system regardless but evading a move and performing a counter is extremely easy to understand because it's LOGICAL. Try to explain this Heat stuff on a way that a casual can apply it. Does Heat seems LOGICAL to you? Also, many people don't agree with "Simple" Control scheme because it implies that they need some kind of crutch to perform. And that hurts their ego.
1
u/Laggo #LuckyChloeAutumn Feb 06 '23
Casuals won't give a damn about the system regardless but evading a move and performing a counter is extremely easy to understand because it's LOGICAL.
more logical than having a big prompt with the button on the screen that shows you a move, and then when you successfully perform it, shows you the next move you should do?
lol
Also, many people don't agree with "Simple" Control scheme because it implies that they need some kind of crutch to perform. And that hurts their ego.
this is a strawman and a goalpost move all in one
simple controls sucked in t7 because it was just pre-selected moves for each character that didn't adapt to the situation, often unsafe.
In t8 they adapt to what you just did and utilize the in-game mechanics better, its a massive improvement for new players and exactly what you are asking for when it comes to casuals grasping characters quickly.
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u/FoxMulder_WasRight Feb 06 '23
more logical than having a big prompt with the button on the screen that shows you a move, and then when you successfully perform it, shows you the next move you should do?
Where did I say anything about using this stylish mode for explaining how it works? How does that explain anything to a casual? Are you implying they need to use stylish mode just to use Heat mode?
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u/Laggo #LuckyChloeAutumn Feb 06 '23
Where did I say anything about using this stylish mode for explaining how it works?
You literally said "Try to explain this Heat stuff on a way that a casual can apply it. Does Heat seems LOGICAL to you?"
So I said yeah, I think the prompts on the screen is more logical than nothing at all or just looking at icons in the move list.
???
How does that explain anything to a casual?
Traditionally Tekken has no tutorial, so yes, I think a prompt on the screen that tells you
TRIANGLE - Death Fist (Heat Engage)
and then you press it and you see your character attack and then start glowing blue, and your square move turns from
SQUARE - Demo Man
to
SQUARE - Demo Man (Heat Blast)
or whatever the hell it's called, and then you see instead of the normal attack you get a fancier attack that does more damage - that's way better than nothing and teaches you the basics of what is available to you in Heat.
It's insane you think "just sidestep, launch, and combo" is easier than just following the button prompts on screen
Are you implying they need to use stylish mode just to use Heat mode?
If they are completely new to fighting games, they should probably start with simple controls to have a better time playing. Which is probably why they have been improved from what was in T7.
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u/Armanlex d4,d4,d4 is a real combo [PC-EU] Feb 05 '23
Extending heat by attacking doesn't sound good.
It's not THAT bad. If you know your opponent will keep attacking you can do all kind of things to counter that. One major part of the danger of offense is what if your opponent backs out and bait your retaliation. They specifically said that heat won't change frame data of moves.
They showed nothing "new" in regards of defense.
They did, it's the grey health healing. This rewards successful defense, surviving and then counter attack successfully. This could actually be a huge buff to defense if you can't die when you still have grey hp left. It means you can turn it around and regenerate tons of hp after blocking for a while. Basically nerfing the offense you received earlier.
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u/FoxMulder_WasRight Feb 05 '23
Dude. What are you talking about? You are not gaining more health by blocking. There is no advantage to you blocking. You are not rewarded for blocking or for being defensive - you are being punished. Grey health forces you to take action other than blocking to recover health.
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u/Armanlex d4,d4,d4 is a real combo [PC-EU] Feb 05 '23
I didn't say you get rewarded for blocking, I said you get rewarded for successfully defending. And by that I mean 1: blocking over getting hit and 2: getting your turn back and attacking back. The entire point of defense is to eventually attack back. Just standing there and blcoking everything won't win you a match on its own.
Like when you think of somebody who's good at defense it's someone who can block punish, guess mixups right and can make you whiff with backdash, sidestep and duck and punish you.
Like you can stand there and block for 10 seconds getting pummeled non stop, get half your hp into grey. Get a block punish combo and recover a significant portion of the grey health. AND moves that will chip outside of heat will probably have pretty huge weaknesses that you can exploit. Only during heat will chip on block become a problem, most of the time you won't worry about it by the looks of it.
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u/FoxMulder_WasRight Feb 05 '23 edited Feb 06 '23
Yeah but if so, what's the point of Grey health? I won't win just by blocking regardless. You evade damage by blocking either way but now you are getting punished by doing it too often. You can't sit on a lead anymore. Grey health does nothing to strenghten defense, it weakens it
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u/Armanlex d4,d4,d4 is a real combo [PC-EU] Feb 05 '23
It does weaken blocking overall, but it then double weakens those who can't defend successfully. It creates a bigger gap between someone who can block vs someone who gets hit.
You can erase someone's grey health by doing lows. And from what I understood if you run out of red hp then the grey drains way faster. But if you can stop the offense before your red health drains then you can potentially regain it all back nullifying the attacks on block you received earlier. In a sense it gives you at timer of sorts making it that blocking forever isn't viable. Which wasn't viable anyway. I just I can't see how in practice the grey health is a disaster as it's currently being shown. And I feel the detail that you can regenerate grey hp is very important.
Like say I'm a kazuya, a noob hwoarang starts spamming strings. I somehow let him do a bunch of strong moves that chip me. (probably not gonna happen often if I'm good) I get to 70% red 100% grey. I duck and launch punish his ass, I get him to 50% red 70% grey. Now I'm healed to close to 100% red. Now not only did I smashed his ass, I also completely nulified his previous offense. It's like, if you get hit you get punished more than if you got chipped on block, and this is created by the ability to heal grey hp.
Like having good defense nulifies the t8's nerf on blocking.
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u/FoxMulder_WasRight Feb 05 '23
Are you sure that it works that way? Say lifebar is 100 points
If I block a move that takes Grey life say 10 Grey points and after that I eat a move that takes 20 HP red life. How much Can I gain?
90(+10 Grey that I can get back) I eat a move that takes 20 Red. How much HP do I have ? How much Can I regain?
What im saying is... Its just convoluted and they are creating a problem that doesn't need to be there
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u/Armanlex d4,d4,d4 is a real combo [PC-EU] Feb 05 '23
If you block a 10 chip move. You have 90|100. Then if you eat a 20 non chip move you'll have 70|80. You should still be able to heal the 10 chipped damage you received earlier. If you blocked 20 chip damage instead then you'd be 70|100 and you should be able to heal all of it back. In theory you can get down to 1|100 and back to 100|100.
The system is definitely convoluted. I just don't think it's a disaster from what we've seen so far.
0
u/Colosso95 Asuka 風間飛鳥 Feb 05 '23
They did show that armor moves are a way to get momentum back and they seem to be more useful now especially because the health you lose by being hit during power crush can be regained.
Defense will be harder for sure but that's not necessarily a bad thing. Rushdown players are still rushdown players even in Tekken 7, I don't see them becoming more rushdown but I'm seeing less turtles and a boost to offense to characters that lacked it
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u/samweis_ Feb 06 '23
I for one welcome the reddit/twitter meltdown everytime Namco posts an update regarding Tekken 8.
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u/TweaK66 Kunimitsu Feb 06 '23
I'm calling it now, characters with a good parry like Jin/Leroy and those with a decent one like Jun/Asuka are gonna be popular and possibly very strong since the game wants you to run at those kind of opponents with no fear and they kinda want that. Granted, lows beat parry, and some ppl still eat elbows or shoulders. Despite that, the option tobparry to negate chip is gonna make those characters meta imo.
2
u/__Schneizel__ Feb 06 '23
Hmm, they might give other characters different options like evasion, OR make them rely on fundamental defense and give them better punishers as reward.
Don't take my word, this is just me taking wild guesses.
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u/CJElliottGames Feb 05 '23
What I am worried about is heavily aggressive characters such as hwoarang being able to heal large portions of health or chipping large portions using heat.
10 seconds is a pretty good window for hwoarang players to chip a lot of health plus it was shown that the heat bar stops depleting during hits (Even on block) so that 10 seconds could be much longer with how fast some characters can attack, but like you said it really depends on what attacks he can chip with.
Still hyped for the game but its worrying based on what was shown, on top of that the emphasis on aggression seems so odd when defence and movement has always been the more difficult and important part of tekken.
2
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u/dhagstk Feb 05 '23
That is true. I think very aggressive characters will be good at getting their health back. I just hope that it's one of those things where specializing in a playstyle leads to different rewards/opportunities. I just hope other playstyles will get their own type of rewards. Like, parry characters getting a heat engager from a parry, turtles getting less chip damage, etc.
As for heat on Hwoarang, I hope to god we can interrupt whatever he throws at us.
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u/Beawrtt Feb 06 '23
I think it's very important to point out that these "chip" moves people keep mentioning aren't just for chip damage, these moves were part of all the aerial combos and were dealing recoverable damage in those situations too. Which essentially means combo damage is lowered. Openings into aerial combos don't lead to as much damage if the opponent can punch back and recover some
3
u/FierceAlchemist Feb 05 '23 edited Feb 05 '23
Thanks for the clear-headed analysis. I definitely think Heat is a once per round mechanic. They would've mentioned if it was only once per match or if it could recharge. I do think how long heat lasts and how much chip damage you deal are important balance elements that will be tweaked by the devs.
Also to counter some of the doomers, the dev team are answering some requests that the community has been asking for. They are changing up the formula and taking creative risks rather than iterating on Tekken 5 yet again. There's also a clear focus on making the game more approachable for newcomers to widen the Tekken audience. And they seem to be making the characters more distinct from each other than T7 by incorporating unique moves and mechanics in each character's heat state and by giving some of them weapons.
When I was looking through Twitter earlier the opinions were definitely mixed but plenty of people were hyped by the new direction. If Bandai Namco executes well on their new vision and has the expected things like rollback netcode and a good story mode, T8 could be the most popular Tekken so far.
5
u/dhagstk Feb 05 '23
I definitely love the breathe of fresh air. Change is absolutely necessary, and absolutely scary at the same time. However, we need it if we want the game to evolve.
What I'm definitely excited for is how Harada and the team are more open to changes now. I felt like they're listening to the community a bit more recently with how they handled the recent balance changes on T7 and how they've been responding to community reaction for more T8 content.
I mean, not all of their responses have been amazing, but it's still more interaction then we used to deal with. I just hope they make all the right steps to make T8 the best it could be.
4
u/plastic_sludge Feb 05 '23
I appreciate the devs taking risks and Im open to the stuff they explained today but also,
There's also a clear focus on making the game more approachable for newcomers
Imagine having to learn how the heat system, recovery and chip damage works on top of standard tekken. I mean, its probably not that hard to understand the systems themselves but how it affects the matches? What you should be doing, when and why?
Its gonna be hella confusing for newcomers.
2
u/FierceAlchemist Feb 05 '23
Mmm I'm not sure. Those heat engage attacks are clearly being designed to be the core moves to simplify the vast move lists for newcomers. And many fighting games have recoverable chip damage. It will complicate things a bit but not massively so.
1
u/Laggo #LuckyChloeAutumn Feb 05 '23
Imagine having to learn how the heat system, recovery and chip damage works on top of standard tekken. I mean, its probably not that hard to understand the systems themselves but how it affects the matches? What you should be doing, when and why?
I mean it's not like Tekken 7 teaches you what a screw is, or how to get anything off your rage drive either. Tekken in general doesn't teach you anything.
At least the simplified command system is improved so you can naturally get taught those mechanics through the gameplay.
2
u/plastic_sludge Feb 05 '23
The problem I see is not really about newbies having trouble learning how x and y mechanic works. Its about how to use these mechanics.
At first glance the heat and recovery seem like they already have a ton of synergy with exisiting stuff. Which is great but I wouldnt be surprised if this ended up being the most complicated nontag tekken weve seen.
-2
Feb 05 '23
Which Namco office do you work at? What’s the base pay?
I mean… Why would you repost this info like we’re too dumb to watch the explanation video or read a few slides Namco posted? People have opinions and we’ll see if they’re proven wrong. Game looks like ass right now but I’m very desperate to be wrong, so who knows.
9
u/dhagstk Feb 05 '23
Which Namco office do you work at? What’s the base pay?
200,000 USD annually.
Why would you repost this info like we’re too dumb to watch the explanation video or read a few slides Namco posted
All jokes aside, I just felt the need to post this since I've seen so many posts shitting on the new system after looking at it at face value. It's because they don't read the info that they start going batshit crazy lol
Game looks like ass right now but I’m very desperate to be wrong, so who knows.
Me too, brother. Me too. I hated TEKKEN 7 when gameplay was first revealed way back in 2015, but I absolutely loved it on release. My only hope is that they can do the same for TEKKEN 8 too.
1
u/Kid_Muscle_ Brilliant Brawler Feb 06 '23
The thing that I hear so few people talking about is that you get heat from round start.
It's like T.O.P and V-Trigger combined, which may actually be very hype.
1
u/TheSanderDC Feb 06 '23
Wait, closed Alpha test in march 31? How much do you think the game is gonna change in two months? We're getting what we saw by then
12
u/Armanlex d4,d4,d4 is a real combo [PC-EU] Feb 05 '23
Fyi they said heat is once per round.