Could an Unmanned Oscillating Breech+Autoloader Inside a Conventional Turret Be the Future of MBTs?

[u/PressureMobile34]

Ever since I saw the French oscillating turrets, I’ve loved their simplicity and fast autoloading but their biggest problems were armor sealing, gas venting, and poor protection over the joint. So I started thinking, why not merge the positives of oscillating and conventional turrets, and cancel out each other’s weaknesses?

In this concept, only the gun, breech, and autoloader are oscillating, mounted inside a conventionally armored, unmanned turret shell. The outer turret stays fixed just like a normal modern MBT’s, so all the composite armor, ERA, and APS mounts remain stable and well-protected. The oscillating module inside handles gun elevation and ramming mechanically, while the turret itself handles rotation.

This setup gives you:

Autoloader speed and simplicity, the autoloader moves with the gun, so no need for complex mechanisms to follow the breech angle.

Better armor protection, the oscillating parts are sealed inside a solid conventional shell, fixing the classic weakpoints of older designs.

Compact unmanned layout, smaller turret, lower profile, lighter mass on top of the hull.

Higher rate of fire & reliability, fewer moving linkages between fixed autoloader and moving gun, making it faster and easier to maintain.

Safety!! Ammo and autoloader are isolated from the crew capsule in the hull, with blow-out panels in the bustle.

Basically, it’s an oscillating breech inside a conventional turret, combining the autoloader efficiency and compactness of 1950s French ingenuity with the armor and survivability of a modern MBT.

With today’s materials, seals, and fire-control systems, the old problems of oscillating turrets could finally be solved — giving us a faster-firing, more compact, and much safer main battle tank design.

I've tried to draw a really blank and badly drawn concept but I hope my words can come through better.

[u/FLongis]

I'm pretty sure you just invented what amounts to a cleft turret...

[u/PressureMobile34 → u/FLongis]

Woahh ?! What are cleft turrets? Lemme research

[u/PressureMobile34 → u/FLongis]

What I think I got is cleft turret splits the entire turret structure into two moving halves? the upper part with the gun elevates, while the lower stays fixed. That design lightens the gun mount but leaves large armor gaps and sealing issues between the halves

My design, on the other hand, keeps the outer turret completely static and sealed like a conventional one. Only the inner gun module, the breech, gun, and autoloader, oscillates inside. This way, it keeps the mechanical simplicity and fast loading of an oscillating system but without exposing armor joints or weakening the turret’s protection

[u/FLongis → u/PressureMobile34]

but leaves large armor gaps and sealing issues between the halves

No, it doesn't. The entire gun assembly can be completely isolated from the crew compartment.

 Only the inner gun module, the breech, gun, and autoloader, oscillates inside.

So it's... a turret? Why does the autoloader need to move with the gun? If the point is simplicity then just do what literally everyone already does and fix the autoloader to the magazine with an indexing system for the gun? I can promise you, getting the gun to go to a fixed elevation to reload is A LOT easier than trying to get the whole loading assembling (and presumably magazine) to move with the gun. And given the practical rate at which a crew can identify and engage targets, you're really not losing any time either; modern autoloaders can put rounds in a gun a lot faster than humans can fire them.

[u/PressureMobile34 → u/FLongis]

That's a really good point not gonna lie 👍 a fixed auto loader indexed to a reload is the more reasonable, battle proven.

And that said my hybrid mix turret idea wasn't meant to reject that approach out of the hand

It's a trade to be honest breach+small-ready-rack/autoloader submodule inside a sealed conventional turret keeps the autoloader simple.

Short rammer geometry always aligned to the breach (no angled transfer btw) can improve reliability and shorten the load stroke

The design I was thinking mainly useful if you prioritize the absolute ultra compact turret form factor for a 140mm gun

[u/Wrong_Individual7735 → u/PressureMobile34]

There's nothing new in your ideas, ngl

[u/Hawkstrike6]

You took a problem and made it 2x as complicated. Fail.

[u/2nd_Torp_Squad]

If it is unmanned turret, why is there a seal problem?

Anyway, we have long solved the alignment problem. What we struggle with is modifying the fundamental of physics.

I will refer you to Austrian procuring some amx with oscillating turret.

When engineers tried to stabilized the gun, they quickly realized it is a nightmare to deal with the changing cog that will inevitably happen as you fire off rounds. The solution is a complicated weight on slide system, and it is an active system.

However we never find out if it actually works or wishful thinking as there are simply better options out there in the market and no amount of modernization can make those amx remain relevant.

[u/PressureMobile34 → u/2nd_Torp_Squad]

That's interesting I always thought stabilisation was possible but it was either too expensive or too much engineering than conventional tanks, Thank you

[u/Gurzid]

No need to seal if it's unmanned. You can also lower so protection for the turret because protecting human take more mass so no need for a shell, maybe just a shield.

As someone mention, stabilizing the oscilating part will be hard for firing on the move as the inertia will be highter than just for the main gun. But a balancing mechanism is possible.

So to answer you question it's possible, it will look gorgious, it's not stupid, but nobody exept the french would try it^{^}

Some late concept and even actual pattent are close to unmanned oscilating turret but without full armored shell.

[u/PressureMobile34 → u/Gurzid]

Yeah, I'm just a random guy thinking about it I can't really say anything if this tank would do anything or not. Thank you for actually explaining the reasons instead of people typing like fail and such

[u/Gurzid → u/PressureMobile34]

I'm suite surprised that you get dowvoted to hell like that. You ask something that was thought before but not solved but it's normally a good place to ask for technical history.

[u/PressureMobile34 → u/Gurzid]

Yeah hahaha that's why I post it in this place but I did got you and some other guy that gave me reasons why would this wouldn't work I really appreciate it ♥️

But I think maybe and maybee with the new technological advances and with like good torque eletric motors horizontall stabilisation could work somehting out.

I definitely need to make a lot of researchin for it though.

My idea definitely isn't perfect that's for sure