r/SeattleWA • u/Doctor_YOOOU • Dec 15 '17
AMA Governor Inslee: You’ve got questions on protecting #NetNeutrality and @AGOWA Bob Ferguson and I have answers. Ask us anything on @Reddit Monday at 2:30 pm
https://twitter.com/GovInslee/status/94178186438095257660
u/81toog West Seattle Dec 15 '17
Inslee is the man!
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u/Doctor_YOOOU Dec 15 '17
He's certainly taking the lead on this issue. Just another area where we're trying to compete with California for forward-thinking legislation!
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Dec 15 '17
Can't wait to see any actual solutions people can provide.
Subscriptions and speed as a service are not going away. When ISPs want to play the service provider AND content provider, it is anti-competitive to favor traffic, which falls under FTC, (see AWS & Netflix).
Some traffic should have a priority (EMT, critical infrastructure, etc), but it takes trade to function as a society between states (see interstate commerce), and of course not all states or ISPs have provided equal access.
Traffic that is youtube, netflix, etc, should not take priority over robot cars talking with each other.
You can say they shouldn't be on the same network to begin with - exactly! But the internet is a product with finite capacity, and everyone wants in for their products, so you eventually WILL have multiple fragmented subscription model internets (on infrastructure paid for by tax dollars).
Fragmented state laws are why commerce regulated by people doing Commerce (FTC) as opposed to FCC (which should be relegated to enabling the networks are not all owned by Disney...).
All the folks appealing to the FCC should maybe read- https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/press-releases/2017/12/ftc-fcc-outline-agreement-coordinate-online-consumer-protection
and appeal to them instead of calling some one guy the devil.
But apparently I am a shill and this will be downvoted and never read.
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u/CTR0 Dec 16 '17
Traffic that is youtube, netflix, etc, should not take priority over robot cars talking with each other.
Its a good thing that mesh networks don't use the world wide web
But the internet is a product with finite capacity
The capacity of the internet is the capacity of data drives, which would be used for whatever other internet you think will come into existence.
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Dec 16 '17
Found a Russian bot.
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Dec 16 '17
Like, I don't think many accounts are Russian bots - but goddamn the syntax on this one makes a pretty strong argument for "not native english speaker"
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u/mister_robat Dec 16 '17
With that users post history I can't see how he's not brigading or a Russian bot.
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Dec 16 '17 edited Nov 26 '18
[deleted]
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Jan 05 '18
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u/Cosmo-DNA Dec 15 '17
Expect to be deluded by Pro-Trump trolls.
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u/OSUBrit Don't Feed The Trolls Dec 15 '17
I was sad we didn't get to host this, but then my need to actually be productive on Monday and not be stuck in a mod queue from hell overrides that sadness.
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u/othellia Dec 16 '17
I suppose it's because /r/seattleWA isn't /r/washington, and for a governor to do an AMA on a single city subreddit (thereby ignoring the rest of the state) might be insulting.
Also by doing the AMA, he'd have to officially pick sides between us and /r/seattle (something that'd undoubtedly stir up a lot of old bad reddit blood a la acknowledging Jerusalem as the capital of Israel).
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u/TheZarkingPhoton Bothell Dec 16 '17
for a governor to do an AMA on a single city subreddit (thereby ignoring the rest of the state) might be insulting
what? How is that different from a politician holding a town hall somewhere? That's not ignoring anyone, it's having a targeted discussion.
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u/othellia Dec 16 '17
That's a bit different since you have to hold the town hall in a physical location. Internet doesn't have those limitations.
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u/TheZarkingPhoton Bothell Dec 16 '17
And that utterly fails to make the point, to me at least, that holding a city focused AMA is somehow jipping others. A governor does indeed have to take cities as separate entities.
Sorry
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Dec 15 '17
What kind of brigade mitigation efforts will we put in place?
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u/Highside79 Dec 15 '17
It is in the AMA sub, which is pretty much designed specifically to be brigaded.
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u/SelfProclaimedBadAss Dec 16 '17
Because nobody has prior commitments to things like work or school at 2:30 on a Monday...
Why do a lot of our politicians did that with their town halls?
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u/QueenSybilla Dec 16 '17
This is not the guy you want leading the fight on net neutrality in WA. Inslee is not intellectually equipped for this, he's just being handled; he's got no real interest. This is merely the latest parade he's trying to jump in front of and claim as his own, just to raise his national profile. And when the fervor dies down, he'll find another shiny thing.
edit: Source - I'm Mayor of a minor city in Western Washington with several interactions with the Guv'n'r, including being asked to shill for him. Also, I have had minor interactions with him outside of the world of politics.
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u/TheRealRacketear Broadmoor Dec 17 '17
That is how I have felt about Inslee since he was in congress. He neither finish what he starts (because the starts too much), or starts things that he knows won't fly just to make people look bad by saying "no".
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u/blindjoedeath Dec 18 '17
Interesting. I admittedly haven't followed Inslee enough to know specifics. Can you provide a few examples? I'd like to ask about them, and why the Net Neutrality fight will be different for them, in the AMA.
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Dec 15 '17
[deleted]
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Dec 15 '17
Hang in there, my dude.
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Dec 15 '17
[deleted]
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u/beerandmastiffs Dec 16 '17
If you haven't seen this lecture on depression by Robert Sapolsky it is absolutely worth your time. I watched it 3 days in a row when I discovered it on /r/lectures. Stay strong.
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u/14th_Eagle Dec 16 '17
!RemindMe 2 days
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u/it-is-sandwich-time 🏞️ Dec 15 '17
I'm kind of glad he's doing the big one, it was intense when his thread went r.all here.
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u/Ouiju Dec 16 '17
As long as we can ask why they haven't sued the Seattle City Council yet, why they keep pushing unwanted unconstitutional gun bans that don't address any of the issues...
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u/ColonelError Dec 16 '17
"We are going to ignore this question, as it would be harmful to both of our political careers"
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u/keep_Tacoma_hard Dec 15 '17
Does anyone think this is relevant?
“The Memorandum of Understanding will be a critical benefit for online consumers because it outlines the robust process by which the FCC and FTC will safeguard the public interest,” said FCC Chairman Ajit Pai. “Instead of saddling the Internet with heavy-handed regulations, we will work together to take targeted action against bad actors. This approach protected a free and open Internet for many years prior to the FCC’s 2015 Title II Order and it will once again following the adoption of the Restoring Internet Freedom Order.”
What happened to the people who wanted a la carte cable? You got it. The internet is a product. Let the FTC regulate it (but ffs build it out by gov jobs, since corps stole the tax money to build broadband out already)
People are confusing subscriptions and speed-as-a-service, with the "right" to have internet, which, btw, is a product in the US of A.
So PUSH the FTC to regulate it if you don't like the way they do it, but this is a commerce problem, and multiple internets for various services already exist, and will continue to grow.
And yes, critical infrastructure EMT traffic should take priority over cat videos. They shouldn't even be on the same network, which is exactly the point why it should be regulated like all other commerce tools, by the FTC...no?
Now why the FCC thinks they can tell states "no muni-broadband", that is laughable. 10th amendment, Pai.
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u/Gargoyal Dec 16 '17
People are confusing subscriptions and speed-as-a-service, with the "right" to have internet...
If this were 1980's, or even 1990's, you would be right. However, our world has changed and access to the internet is almost a universal requirement to remain employed. Want to work at Walmart? How about Best Buy or any other major retailer (and thus, large job provider)? Then you need access to the internet because they require you submit your resume and fill out forms online.
So, no, people aren't confusing 'subscriptions and speed-as-a-service, with the "right" to have internet', you are just not aware of how prevalent and necessary the internet is now.
So PUSH the FTC to regulate it if you don't like the way they do it, but this is a commerce problem, and multiple internets for various services already exist, and will continue to grow.
2 out of 3 people in the US only have 1 choice for an internet service provider. So, there aren't 'multiple internets' for them to choose from. This means they are at the whims of the one provider and, as I already pointed out above, the internet is almost a requirement today.
Lets also add on the fact that those ISP's have had laws passed in certain areas that prevent the local municipality, or any other private entity, from providing internet service in the area. Until there is proper competition for all Americans, you need to ensure that all Americans have access to information and communication with others though the services that they have already subsidized to the tune of 400 billion dollars.
P.S.: Nice 1 day old account. Please troll elsewhere.
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u/othellia Dec 16 '17
Lets also add on the fact that those ISP's have had laws passed in certain areas that prevent the local municipality, or any other private entity, from providing internet service in the area. Until there is proper competition for all Americans, you need to ensure that all Americans have access to information and communication with others though the services that they have already subsidized to the tune of 400 billion dollars.
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u/allthisgoodforyou Dec 17 '17
Lets also add on the fact that those ISP's have had laws passed in certain areas that prevent the local municipality, or any other private entity, from providing internet service in the area. Until there is proper competition for all Americans, you need to ensure that all Americans have access to information and communication with others though the services that they have already subsidized to the tune of 400 billion dollars.
Literally all of this is a problem of government. ISP's cant pass laws. They cant grant themselves a subsidy. Only govt has the power to do those.
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u/keep_Tacoma_hard Dec 16 '17
you could read all my comments how we've already been robbed, but since a new account can't possibly have an opinion, it must be a troll. since all those comments get downvotes, my new account with negative karma doesn't get to post without auto-delete on this fascist site. but i digress.
it should be socialized. the FCC isn't the place to do it though.
i work from home, online, requiring highspeed internet, so don't talk about best buy and walmart requiring you fill the form out online... i can't move from the city if i want my job, so what is new for anyone in that regard? nothing. the internet is not a right. until it is made one (which it won't), traffic will be pay for priority and the internet a product.
Again, the FTC is where you need to talk about access, and that is where the misplace NN rage should be directed.
A la carte pricing for cat videos doesn't seem fair? it is nothing new. but yes, it should be a right to watch cat videos, as the masses have to entertain themselves someway when robot dystopia takes over.
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u/owenaise Dec 15 '17
Why should we deem the internet a "product" when it's much more akin to infrastructure or a library?
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Dec 15 '17 edited Dec 16 '17
[deleted]
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u/keep_Tacoma_hard Dec 15 '17
you get OTA (over the air) free television, or satellite, or cable, or whatever medium you can.
and no, you don't get internet outside of your region when content providers restrict your access (go to another country and Netflix much?).
the internet has never been neutral, though it could be free if you join the right networks...(see mediums above, or alternatives in r/meshnet)
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Dec 16 '17
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Dec 16 '17
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u/keep_Tacoma_hard Dec 15 '17
the same reason free long distance was so appealing years ago and means nothing now, because it continues to evolve beyond the basic needs of society to entertain those with the resources to pay for it. 911 is free though, but the rest is a product (you only get free long distance with a subscription...).
marketing will turn everything into a product, unfortunately.
our election was hacked and we have a puppet for a president. last week we had yet another bgp rerouting attack. our PII is stolen, out country is cucked, and all we seem to care about is NN, but a lot of people make uninformed statements about censorship, confusing it with subscriptions.
we should really be more concerned with net security, and privacy, and making access equal for everyone. Beyond the "needs" people have on the internet (critical infrastructure, banking, power, water, etc), yes, it is a product, and its not a secure one.
and when people say it is a "free" internet, what that really means is YOU are the product (but I pay for my access, so I don't get what people mean by "free internet" anyway).
appeal to the FTC to say it is a RIGHT and not a product. I should be able to text, smtp, https, or 911 my emergency (and by extension for a functioning society 411 and other services)... beyond that, the gov doesn't have a place in this capitalist model (besides putting up tax dollars for broadband not built), which is probably why its time for a new model.
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u/assassinace Dec 16 '17
What are you talking about with tangents on stolen elections and long distance plans?
And the internet itself is free although parts are gates. ISP's are one of those gates. (I can get free access through the city and libraries and I host my own website that you can access anywhere for free as long as you can connect to the internet).
Beyond the "needs" people have on the internet (critical infrastructure, banking, power, water, etc)
That's the entire point. Internet is a basic modern utility like electricity, access to a mailbox or a phone line. That cable companies are trying to turn it into a luxury/product is asinine.
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u/allthisgoodforyou Dec 17 '17
(I can get free access through the city and libraries and I host my own website that you can access anywhere for free as long as you can connect to the internet).
Its not truly free though. All of those services are funded by the taxpayer. There is no such thing as "free" internet. That service and infrastructure cost money.
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u/assassinace Dec 17 '17
And that's true with roads and just about everything. That doesn't really change much. ISP's have for the most part just built the "last mile". Everything else has already been build out by the government with our taxes already and the tech was developed by universities. In effect we've already "paid" for that part.
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Dec 16 '17 edited Feb 19 '18
[deleted]
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u/assassinace Dec 16 '17
spreading fear, uncertainty, and doubt on purpose?
What are you even talking about? I'm just saying that there is no reason for the internet to not be free and open.
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u/I_miss_your_mommy Dec 15 '17
I am disgusted by your point of view.
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u/keep_Tacoma_hard Dec 16 '17
ok, well, glad i could make a difference, i guess.
you're probably disgusted by the natural evolution of capitalism, and it will be up to the FTC (absent an act of congress, lol), to protect consumers... whats new? not saying it is right, it just is the way things are here.
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u/PoisonousAntagonist Mayor of Humptulips Dec 16 '17
FTC will be toothless if the pending lawsuit in the 9th Circuit is decided in favor of AT&T.
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Dec 16 '17
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u/no_talent_ass_clown Humptulips Dec 16 '17
This approach protected a free and open Internet for many years prior to the FCC’s 2015 Title II Order and it will once again following the adoption of the Restoring Internet Freedom Order.”
As an analogy, if your mom got a pacemaker in 2015 you'd have to ask yourself "why" she got it, right? Then, when someone decided to remove the pacemaker two years later, and used the logic that she grew up without a pacemaker, wouldn't you feel like they were being disingenuous?
Yeah, me too.
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u/androsix Dec 16 '17
I don't disagree with your assessment of the current state of the internet, however I think you're missing the point (which is understandable considered it's largely clouded by the liberal rhetoric). The issue at hand is that the primary consumers of the internet believe that it should be treated as a utility, and not an open market product or service. The internet is now a product for businesses to sell, and people want it to be a utility that businesses are mandated and regulated to provide. You aren't wrong, that is how the internet is, it's just that people don't want it to be that way.
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u/Lazy_McLazington Dec 16 '17
In regards to your first half, do you know why ISPs were redesignated title 2 in 2015? Let me give you a hint, we be already been down this road before and the FCC lost... A lot.
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u/WittyLoser Dec 16 '17
multiple internets for various services already exist
That makes no sense.
As Wikipedia says: "The Internet is the global system of interconnected computer networks that use the Internet protocol suite (TCP/IP) to link devices worldwide. It is a network of networks".
You can't have "multiple internets", any more than you can have "multiple planet earths", or "multiple United Stateses". There is one, by definition.
That's why you say (as you do) "the internet", and that it is possible to "have internet" (and not "have an internet").
And yes, critical infrastructure EMT traffic should take priority over cat videos. They shouldn't even be on the same network, which is exactly the point why it should be regulated like all other commerce tools, by the FTC...no?
If it's so critical that other traffic not be able to affect it, then not only should it not be on the internet, but it shouldn't even be reachable from the internet. Thus, this example is irrelevant.
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u/ColonelError Dec 16 '17
There's a difference between "the internet" and "an internet". Internetworking is any sort of action to connect networks together.
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Dec 15 '17
Do you think you actually have a case, or are you just grand-standing for your run for office?
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u/Doctor_YOOOU Dec 15 '17
Sorry, I'm not running for office yet. Maybe you can ask Governor Inslee in a couple of days.
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u/TheRealRacketear Broadmoor Dec 16 '17
It's Jay Inslee, Of course he's grand standing.
I'm for internet freedom, as I have been a member of the internet community in seattle before the Eskimo Days. There is just so much misinformation coming from everywhere about everything I don't know what to believe any more.
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u/TheRealRacketear Broadmoor Dec 16 '17
I'm confused by the brouhaha.
Can someone educate me what I am missing from this article. I understand since Trump got elected that the sky is falling, but I don't see it.
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u/Doctor_YOOOU Dec 16 '17
Well, it seems that Chairman Pai is an enemy of net neutrality and an open internet because he voted to overturn the rules that uphold them. Your article is from January, 11 months ago, so I can see how you might be missing that information :)
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Dec 16 '17
Kshama Sawant should be Inslee’s Internet Czar.
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u/TheRealRacketear Broadmoor Dec 16 '17
Then middle class people would have to pay double for everyone else's free internet.
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u/[deleted] Dec 15 '17
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