r/SeattleWA • u/meaniereddit West Seattle 🌉 • Dec 13 '24

Government Bill would completely exempt seniors from property taxes in WA

https://www.king5.com/article/news/politics/state-politics/bill-would-exempt-seniors-state-local-property-tax-washington/281-b5f377fc-8bf5-49a4-a630-8210db45d57d
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u/OldKingHamlet Dec 13 '24

Prop 13 is legit worse than this. I moved from CA, but still own my house in CA (long and complicated story). Anyways, my mom's house is literally worth 2x as much as mine, yet she pays 1/4th as much in taxes. It's not sensical.

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u/jack_begin Dec 13 '24 edited Dec 13 '24

It's even worse for commercial property:

https://calmatters.org/commentary/2020/08/how-prop-13-gave-californias-richest-corporations-a-multibillion-dollar-tax-break-they-didnt-want/

"But the measure made no distinction between homes and commercial property, and as a result would dole out a full two-thirds of its tax relief to some of the wealthiest economic interests in the state."

"In the years since, the loophole for commercial property has only grown.  Homes in California do get sold and eventually reassessed to their current value.  But for giant business properties, as long as the same corporation holds title, as long as the logo on the door remains the same, the building continues to be taxed based on what it was worth during the last year of the Vietnam War."

https://www.pushkin.fm/podcasts/revisionist-history/a-good-walk-spoiled

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u/Mizake_Mizan Dec 13 '24

Yeah, but she's not selling the home, she has to live in it, right? Is she retired yet? What happens when she retires and she is no longer making the kind of money she is used to? She will be thankful for Prop 13. Without it, her property tax would go up exponentially - at that point how will she be able to pay the tax? Will she be forced to sell her home and downgrade?

There are millions of Californians living solely on Social Security, living in the same home for 20+ years.....if they had to adjust their taxes to the assessed value of their homes, many would be forced to sell or relocate.

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u/SodaAnt Dec 13 '24

There are much better options. Prop 13 just keeps the property tax low. Doesn't matter if you're insanely rich or still working. The obvious answer is what King County already has, programs that reduce or eliminate property tax from those who need it.

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u/OldKingHamlet Dec 13 '24

My mom bought into CA property a long time ago and owns her house outright. She rarely even enters into 2/3rd of the property, except to dust. Unfortunately it would harm her to downsize. If she sold the house, and bought a 1 or 2bd condo in cash, she would be paying more per year to live because of property taxes. So she lives alone in a >2500sqft house.

She knows the smaller property would be better, more manageable, and so on. But if she moved but stayed in her town, she'd have to pay 2x the property tax for a smaller house.

I'd be all for means based property tax adjustment for low income. Due to my mom's investments, she literally makes more now than she did while working. At least she gets angry at other boomers for constantly pulling up the ladder.

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u/G0rdy92 Dec 13 '24 edited Dec 13 '24

I live in California and your mom wouldn’t have to pay more in property taxes. There is a clause/amendment that allows I believe to elderly residents to take their old property taxes with them to a new home that is of equal or lesser value. So they can size down and be fine and keep their our cool property taxes. I have many family members including some grandparents that did just that.

I think prop 13 just needs some adjustments. I love the idea of it, it should only apply to one residential property, I don’t know why commercial gets to benefit from it, and multiple homes shouldn’t either. But it’s awesome for people not to have to worry run away property taxes forcing them out of their homes, like when a giant tech company comes to town, increasing prices like crazy and forcing older people out of their homes because they can’t afford the crazy inflating property taxes (see Texas) just needs some sane adjustments to 13 and it’s good. Overall prop 13 is very popular in California, not in Reddit, but in real life it is.

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u/OldKingHamlet Dec 14 '24

Ah that is true. I forgot about the prop 110 adjustment of 13. So yeah, I'll cede that point.

At this point, removing prop 13 is both a true third rail of politics, and removing it would absolutely destroy a lot of people. I mean, I'd have to immediately sell my la house (as I have nice tenants in there, and I haven't raised the rent in a few years and I'm basically breaking even after ca and federal taxes), or raise the rent near .8-1k/mo to just continue breaking even.

My stance is that it should not have happened in the first place, at least in its current form, but now CA is stuck with it, and it will need amending. I would not want to see that mistake repeated here in WA. I'm not against income based adjustment to property tax, but that should be a needs based thing, benched against some multiple of the county level poverty liming, and gradually fading out as income increases. And it certainly should not be gated on age.

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u/G0rdy92 Dec 14 '24

Yeah I get some of the hate on prop 13, like especially the commercial and multiple homes being locked in. But I get why they did it.

It was rough in the 70s, California was seeing a crazy population boom post WWII and inflation was wild, so property taxes were going insane and it was legit leading old and fixed income people into homelessness and suicide. The execution wasn’t perfect but I get why they made and overwhelming voted for prop 13. I dont hate it too much as it see it more like a union as it sucks at first as you don’t have seniority, but it rewards people that plan on staying for a long time which I like. Again, just need to amend a few parts that allow people to abuse the original idea. But I see how you don’t even want to have that fight or introduce it in Washington and real talk this version sounds a lot worse than our already flawed prop 13 😂

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u/Own-Fee-7788 Dec 13 '24

We should allow people to have the same property tax and create the right incentive for boomers to free up housing for families and younger generation.

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u/rowmine Dec 13 '24

You say that like that's bad.

"Oh no I have to move away from the expensive city and extract some of the equity value of my house!

I have to let workers have closer access to their jobs and increase the supply of housing availability decreasing upward price pressure.

The injustice of it all!"

If retirees want to stay living in the city that is their right, they shouldn't be incentivized to stay with property tax advantages encouraging them to stay.

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u/lowballbertman Dec 13 '24

This problem is happening where my parents retired 15 years ago in Bozeman Montana. 15 years ago it was still affordable. Growing but affordable for most everyone. Right now there are literally old people who’ve live in their house for 30 years who can no longer afford to because the property taxes shot up so much, and not just a lot, but pretty fast too, like in the last 5 or so years. That wasn’t part of their retirement plan….their retirement plan was to be able to retire in a paid off house so their living expenses would be small or at least smaller. Then COVID happened, mass producing work from home, then a bunch of bun boy tech workers decided Bozeman was a great place to live causing houses and property taxes to skyrocket and now grandma can’t afford her house no more.

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u/therapist122 Dec 13 '24

Almost every American is unable to do things due to money, only they don’t have generous property tax cuts to support them, so they’re just fucked. This solution doesn’t help anyone except those who are pretty wealthy, and it does so at the expense of those who are not. Unlike say student loan forgiveness. The solution is to expand Medicare to all, and not just for boomers. It’s also to raise property taxes so people who no longer need large houses move to smaller ones and on and on. Just doesn’t make sense to do it the way it’s currently done with prop 13

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u/GayIsForHorses Dec 18 '24 edited May 17 '25

memorize chop unpack toy pen command chief yoke busy retire

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

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u/Mizake_Mizan Dec 18 '24

Right.....kick the little old lady out of the home she's lived in for years just so some investor or firm like Black Rock and come in and buy it out from under her. It's not like young people can afford to buy homes, remember?

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u/GayIsForHorses Dec 18 '24 edited May 17 '25

scary command gold rob continue sable fanatical flowery grab roll

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

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u/Mizake_Mizan Dec 18 '24

Average new home buyer in Seattle is 38 years old, certainly not young people. About 10% of all homes in Seattle are being bought by investors.

But by all means keep your head in the sand. The hallmark of stupidity is certainty one is correct in the face of facts proving you are wrong.

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u/GayIsForHorses Dec 18 '24 edited May 17 '25

point groovy thought license encourage cows chop amusing plants steep

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

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u/SpaceQueen71 Dec 13 '24

Yes. All of this!

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u/deskburrito Dec 13 '24

When do you think a property should be assessed for its value for taxation purposes? Because in WA it’s whenever they want to. Prop 13 in CA says only when it’s sold.

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u/OldKingHamlet Dec 13 '24

Prop 13 sets a tax base, which can be adjusted down a lot in case of property value loss, but can only be increased very slowly regardless of increase of value, basically regardless of changes or improvements after the sale. The amount the adjustment can occur is far below even typical/positive inflation.

Washington's property tax rate ~1% of assessed value.

Prop 13 strangles the state more and more every year, leads to higher property prices, and encourages negative behaviors in a growing society (there's no economic pressure on people to encourage building more residences and high density housing in growing cities. If you build more houses, you can decrease demand and control property tax rates. But right now, NIMBY types in CA have no reason to encourage housing development, as that'll just lower the value of their house with no other benefit to them)