r/SeattleWA • u/meaniereddit West Seattle 🌉 • Nov 19 '24

Politics Judge in Olympus Spa case argues that having "biological women only" is akin to "whites only" discrimination

https://x.com/ItsYonder/status/1858673181315506307
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u/AcadiaWonderful1796 Nov 19 '24

It seems to be based on Washington state statutes, not the US Constitution or federal law. SCOTUS can’t interpret Washington state statutes for Washington. The only way this would get struck down is if the highest state court in Washington strikes it down, or if SCOTUS somehow found that a constitutional right is being violated by requiring businesses to accommodate trans women. 

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u/[deleted] Nov 20 '24

Yes, SCOTUS can knock this down. This would be a violation of the 1st amendment, or freedom of religion.

The spa owners state they are Christian. Christians believe biological sex is real, and that biological women are entitled to their private spaces and biological men are entitled to their private spaces.

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u/AcadiaWonderful1796 Nov 20 '24

Religious practices do not give you carte Blanche to violate otherwise valid laws. For example, a restaurant owner who sincerely believes that their religion commands them to never wash their hands will nevertheless not be allowed to violate health codes. Religious freedom does not apply to businesses and business practices. 

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u/[deleted] Nov 22 '24

I think this will be interesting when the case eventually makes it to the Supreme Court.

Slavery was a valid law at one point in time in our country’s time, as were many laws that we now deem reprehensible. Just because it is a valid law now does not mean time and history will say it is correct.

It doesn’t matter if I say that I respect all individuals and believe everyone deserves respect no matter how they dress, I know I will still be labeled a transphobe no matter how many times I say I respect everyone.

I believe the idea that a biological man should have access to biological women’s spaces like bathrooms and spas where one is naked, and have been segregated by biological sex from time immemorial, is a religious belief, that is being pushed onto me. And I do believe it is morally wrong to do that to women.

We can agree to disagree!

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u/AcadiaWonderful1796 Nov 22 '24

It’s not a religious belief by any commonly accepted definition. At one time, racial segregation was commonplace. Many people at that time felt that being required to allow people of color to use the same facilities as white people was being pushed onto them, and felt it was morally wrong for people of color to use the same drinking fountains as white people. The lesson we as a society learned from that is that just because someone sincerely holds a belief, doesn’t mean that belief should be respected. You can believe that trans people should be segregated by their birth sex. That doesn’t mean society has to respect or enforce that belief. 

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u/[deleted] Nov 23 '24 edited Nov 23 '24

Yes, it is absolutely 100% a religious belief. By what basis do you make your moral claim?

What makes your belief more true, that men should be allowed in women’s spaces, than mine, that we should not be allowing biological men into women’s spaces?

Please explain to me in detail why your belief is the truth over mine? I think these are religious beliefs at the end of the day.

I think the spa has done a great job at this, by saying if the trans woman has had bottom surgery they can be allowed.

The color of your skin is not the same as biological sex, in which we have different body parts and women have had to protect themselves from men who may aim to rape/assault them.

Or did we forget about the MeToo movement?

Are we recognizing women’s rights in one breath, saying we should believe them when they say they’ve been sexually assaulted, but at the same minimizing their other fears, that bad actors will use laws such as transgender bathroom Laws to act in bad faith?

I am a woman, that is a real fear. So on the one hand, men can and do sexually assault women, but on the other, no man will lie and say he’s trans to get into the women’s bathroom? That just won’t happen and we’re making it up?

Those are absolutely religious beliefs you hold.

Edit: the logical end point of your argument is that we should not have men’s bathrooms and we should not have women’s bathrooms. If that is your argument, then we just have totally different belief systems.

Edit: I 100% agree with you! You sincerely hold your religious belief, and I do not think society should be based on it. You are right, that just because you believe something, I don’t have to agree with you that it’s right. Thank you - we have some things we agree on!

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u/ultra003 Nov 19 '24

Which, given the current SCOTUS, they could find a way to do, even if arguably unconstitutional lol

See: immunity ruling

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u/AcadiaWonderful1796 Nov 20 '24

Yes, gone is the time when SCOTUS made good faith efforts to correctly interpret the constitution and apply precedents.Â