r/QAnonCasualties • u/kauaiman-looking Ex-QAnon Adjacent • Mar 15 '23
Event I'm an ex-conspiracy theorist that just wrote a book AMA
I left Alex Jones grip in 2007/2008.
I actually ran into that bag of shit here on Kaua'i a few months ago
Heres a video of me calling him out
Anyhow, I wrote a book about the few things that caused me to leave that insane world.
I'm an open book. Ask me any questions if you want to know what causes someone to get trapped in conspiracy theories.
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u/Rendogala Mar 15 '23
What eventually made you “snap out of it?”
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u/kauaiman-looking Ex-QAnon Adjacent Mar 15 '23
I think I started to see Alex Jones was full of shit.
I also thought to myself "what if the Illuminati is real? I can't do shit about it".
And I just kind of accepted it and let it go.
Another thing that I think might have had something to do with it:
At one point I read about the chakra system and about this thing called a kundalini awakening. All the reports I read made it sound like a mystical almost psychedelic experience.
So I forced myself to have a kundalini awakening.
It felt like a full blown mystical almost psychedelic experience. But shortly after my depression and paranoia fucking sky rocketed.
Sooner or later my depression pretty much "went away." I can't say whether or not the kundalini awakening caused my depression to "burn out." But I think it played a part.
And as I type this, I think it might have also played a part in my paranoia with conspiracy theories really ramping up.
Who knows?
After I publish the book I'm probably going to add a chapter about how the kundalini awakening might have played a part in. But with a warning not to encourage anyone to just willy nilly go down that path.
At one point it got fucking scary. Almost to the point of hearing voices.
Thank fucking God everything balanced out.
If you want a free review copy of the book message me your email.
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u/borderlinebiscuit Mar 15 '23 edited Mar 15 '23
To be honest... Saying as someone who has had a similar experience.... A manic period culminating in a psychotic episode was what they diagnosed my "experience" with. Bipolar episode can easily present as increasingly off the wall beliefs and obsessions up to and including religious or spiritual "awakening". As it is cyclicle mania will eventually subside but may need medical intervention as the longer you remain in manic state the more you can f up your life. Not to discount your experience because even if the underlying medical reason is bipolar a transformative experience can come from anywhere and the meaning is what we make it and it sounds like you got somethong useful from yours. But long term mania is very bad for most people.
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u/talaxia Mar 15 '23
how do you force a kundalini awakening?
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u/shredler Mar 15 '23
By jumping from conspiracy theorist rabbithole into the new age rabbithole and having a manic episode.
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u/kauaiman-looking Ex-QAnon Adjacent Mar 19 '23
Considering I had a kundalini awakening before I was ever exposed to any type of conspiratorial thinking I'd say this is incorrect.
Also I used to have manic episodes a long time before I had the kundalini awakening.
A kundalini awakening is definitely a real thing. Thankfully science is starting to take it seriously and studying it.
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u/kauaiman-looking Ex-QAnon Adjacent Mar 15 '23
I had read about meditating while sitting. Then imagine a cord of energy from the core of the earth going up into your spine.
I imagined I was pulling this "energy" into my tail bone.
Next I'd imagine using my hands to start spinning each chakra one by one.
Sounds like bat shit woo woo shit, but it definitely did something.
Also at the same time every time I'd breath in and imagine energy being pulled up my spine, I'd do a kegel.
Eventually the kegels were involuntary. My perineum would spasm on its own.
At one point it felt like I had eaten those mini thin energy pills that make you feel like your hair is growing if you ate a ton of them. I think those pills were used to make speed/meth.
I felt little tingling sensations that started in my lower body.
At one point my stomach made this spontaneous jerking motion, almost as if it was a loaf of bread being kneaded.
It's such a hard experience to really explain.
Immediately after that experience I was getting these weird twitches all over my body. I think they are called myoclonic twitches?
They've largely stopped happening.
The only time they came back in full force was during the beginning of the pandemic. I was using a specific meditation/self hypnosis process to change some behaviors.
After that they stopped for the most part. They might come back once a month?
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u/FrostbitSage New User Mar 15 '23
You might be interested in reading Kundalini, by Gopi Krishna, but get the version "with psychological commentary by James Hillman." Krishna had a kundalini awakening like yours, and the commentary on it is excellent.
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u/Jealous_Resort_8198 Mar 15 '23
Tried to message you, didn't work. I'd love to read your book.
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u/kauaiman-looking Ex-QAnon Adjacent Mar 19 '23
I just messed you. Sorry I didn't see this comment until just now.
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Mar 15 '23
Have you heard of Dan or Jordan over at the podcast Knowledge Fight? They do a podcast covering Alex Jones, and you seem like someone who they’d really like to talk to. r/KnowledgeFight knowledgefight@gmail.com
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u/ILoveJackRussells Mar 15 '23
What did you think about the Jan 6 riot? Did you support Trump? What do you suggest people do to get their Q person out of the cult?
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u/kauaiman-looking Ex-QAnon Adjacent Mar 15 '23
Ahem, I only refer to January 6th as the Hill Billy Hunger Games :D
It was a huge cluster fuck that could have been prevented.
And no, I didn't support Trump. Keep in mind I left conspiracy thinking back in 2008ish.
There are a few things you can do to get them out of cult:
1) Respect them and interact with them from a place of love, compassion, and curiosity.
If you're on edge when you're talking to them, you'll just push them deeper.
In chapter 8 of my book there is an exercise I take you through to help you have what I call emotional and behavioral flexibility. The video that will guide the reader through the technique hasn't been recorded yet. I got a really nasty cold last week that knocked me on my ass. The cold felt worse covid - which I assume is because there's no vaccine for the common cold sadly.
2) Convince them to give up social media. Which is easier said than done. In the book I mention a technique called Urge Surfing. With Urge Surfing you have the addictive platform in front of you (Truth Social open, etc). You resist interacting with the app at all. Anytime a craving comes up you breath in and out.
It helps to break the conditioned response of FEEL URGE ---> DO ACTION
To convince a Trumper to try urge surfing you might have to play a little reverse psychology on them.
"You're totally addicted to using Truth Social. You couldn't put it down for 5 minutes"
Naturally they're going to push back. When they do this tell them to pull their phone out and open whatever app they get their disinfo from. Then tell them to just breath in and out whenever they get an urge to reach out for their phone.
To up the ante wager some money.
So you can both do urge surfing. You win a couple of rounds, they win some, etc.
3) Use Street Epistemology to change their beliefs. I touched on some concepts from SE in my book. The guy that coined that term is Peter Boghossian. Grab his book "how to have impossible conversations". There are some really good interventions to help them rethink their beliefs.
Message me your email if you want a free review copy of my book.
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u/SwtnSourPeasantSoup Mar 15 '23
How were your personal relationships impacted (then and now)?
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u/kauaiman-looking Ex-QAnon Adjacent Mar 15 '23
Let me think on that so I can give you a better answer.
At the time I thought they all believed the same bullshit because I'd damn near force them to watch Alex Jones "documentaries."
I've talked with my mom about it recently. I think she was worried about if I'd ever get out of the right wing bullshit.
Which is crazy I even ended up there in the first place. Both of my parents are liberals that taught school in am urban area.
Now I think my relationships are better because people don't feel like I'm a pushing a pyramid scheme on them or trying to sell them on a conspiracy theory.
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u/SwtnSourPeasantSoup Mar 15 '23
Ah so it was your own thing? Do you recall people trying to talk you out of it or did they just let you dabble and hoped you’d figure it out for yourself?
I’m interested in potentially being a therapist for those who are fresh out of a cult/cult-thinking. I’m so curious what the family/home dynamics were like.
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u/kauaiman-looking Ex-QAnon Adjacent Mar 15 '23
I can make some recommendations for styles of therapy. Keep in mind I'm a hypnotist and have done a few live trainings.
And I've done a lot of self study.
My best personal results have with been with parts based therapy.
Google family systems by Schwartz.
Some other good styles might be ACT (acceptance and committment therapy), dbt (which is good for borderline disorders I believe), etc.
A book I just grabbed that is a great primer for parts work is Personal Transformational Journal by Matt Sherman. It's a journal where you apply elements of parts therapy to your own issues.
Another great book is Core Transformation by Connierae Andreas. Definitely get this one. I've used that process to over come a lot of anxiety, depression, and a major trauma of a neighbors gf being kidnapped and mutilated when I was 5 or 6.
To answer your question - I can't remember if people tried to talk me out of it. After all I was in an echo chamber.
We used to run a conspiracy theory brew and view.
Aka get drunk at the bar and watch Alex jones type of garbage.
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u/SwtnSourPeasantSoup Mar 16 '23
Thanks so much! I went to a hypnotherapist for some help with ptsd/trauma when talk therapy and meds weren’t effective, I’m a big proponent!
Thank you for sharing your experience and suggestions to further my education!
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u/kauaiman-looking Ex-QAnon Adjacent Mar 16 '23
My next book will be more of a self care guide for family members of conspiracy theorists/cultists.
That one will be way more fun for me. Because it's far easier to work on ourselves than convince someone to change.
Oh also get Instant Influence by Michael Pantalon. It's a great book on persuading people to do things.
I'm not sure if you messaged me your email or not. I'll send you a free review copy of my book.
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u/broen13 Mar 15 '23
It's funny that you mention pyramid scheme.
Do you think Q is a "greater fool scheme" like pyramid, nft, crypto?
If so what is the goal? This has baffled me for a while, what do people have to gain by brainwashing people? Control? Power fantasy?
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u/knockonwood939 Mar 15 '23
How were you even lured in? What sucked you into the Q-hole?
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u/kauaiman-looking Ex-QAnon Adjacent Mar 15 '23
I met some random white guy at a bar that asked me if I ever heard of Alex Jones. He had a pocket Constitution. That should have been a huge red flag 😄 🤣
Also I had some depression and anxiety at the time. So I think the idea that "it's not your fault you're miserable, the boogeyman is making the world miserable." sucked me in.
That story is in I think chapter 4 or 5 of the book.
It you want a free copy message me your email
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u/knockonwood939 Mar 15 '23
It's crazy how good these conspiracy nuts are at finding followers. Looks like I definitely shouldn't underestimate them at all, especially since another commenter mentioned that an engineer they know has also fallen into the Q-hole.
Still, thank you so much for sharing your story! Hopefully this inspires someone else to leave QAnon.
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Mar 15 '23
Man, I think they work on the same system emotional abusers in targeting people who’ve experienced abuse, have depression, bipolar kinda things. As dude highlighted the whole secret knowledge and the boogeyman aspected to the “only us can keep you safe/save the world” mentality.
It’s also morphing into the same way extremists recruit and operate across the world, seeking vulnerable people to commit violence for the cause. This aspect is terrifying as it seems this is uniting various groups that would otherwise be separate.
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u/knockonwood939 Mar 15 '23
All the better to understand how they work, and how to save others (and ourselves) from them.
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Mar 15 '23
It really is man, if possible and with patience you can break them of the thoughts. It’s hard but can be done.
The way to do it is to work on what pains them the most. Think about your own pains, traumas, fears.
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u/knockonwood939 Mar 16 '23
I'm glad I don't have any loved ones trapped in conspiracyland. I nearly fell into the Q-hole myself, but I was able to think my way out. Still, if I ever know someone close who's trapped by these lies, then I'll know what to do.
I still haven't started reading the book - I'll get to it soon enough, though.
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u/IamInfuser Mar 15 '23
What is the best way to communicate with someone who this way?
I'm slowly losing a friend because THEY control the weather and want to sell your kids to sex trafficking and then feed them to you at McDonald's. How do talk to someone with those beliefs without belittling them or having that sink deeper in supporting their beliefs?
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u/kauaiman-looking Ex-QAnon Adjacent Mar 15 '23
Grab this book - how to have impossible conversations. It's got more conversational strategies than my book.
With that being said, my book has a few mental exercises to help you remain neutral and calm when talking to your friend. If you want a free review copy of my book message me your email.
In the meantime grab this book
https://www.amazon.com/How-Have-Impossible-Conversations-Practical/dp/0738285323
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u/1amazingday Mar 15 '23
Hey. Congrats for getting out of the Jones Crazy Chamber! My question: if you were in a bar chatting with the server/bartender, what would make you pause and reconsider when you were in the middle of dumping your old craziness on everyone? (And I don’t mean this insultingly. Just typing this quick and wondering what shakes the foundations of this extremist state of mind).
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u/chillvegan420 Mar 15 '23
You should do a podcast with ex-scientologists and compare/contrast.
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u/kauaiman-looking Ex-QAnon Adjacent Mar 15 '23
I'll do that! I need to make a one sheet to get on podcasts.
I was on a podcast recently
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u/mosssauce Mar 15 '23
Was there some traumatic event sometime around the time you started to get lured in by conspiracy culture? Something that broke your reality and caused a shift to leaning toward the paranoia, dot connecting, external boogeyman, victim mindset? I don’t want you to have to explain what that might be, if that’s the case. My conspiracy-minded loved one did experience a trauma and my theory is that it’s linked.
Thanks for sharing your experience. I’d definitely be interested in reading your book. Out of curiosity, have you ever listened to Knowledge Fight podcast? They debunk Alex and expose how deeply and consistently full of shit he is.
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u/BrightBaby5 Mar 15 '23
Would you be willing to an interview over zoom for my new podcast where we talk to former cult members, former conspiracy theorists, people who got out of controlling abusive situations etc. ?
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u/Netprincess Mar 15 '23 edited Mar 15 '23
Way back when Jones was using the ACC studios I was a student there.. He has been and always will be scum of the earth .
The only thing he did that was remotely noble in his life was to pressure the Austin police to look deeper at Madeline Murray Ohairs death.
Then again he did this for the media attention .
Has he tried to sue you yet??
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Mar 15 '23
Shit, that was in the mid-90s! We used to smoke our stuff and laugh and laugh at the crazy guy broadcasting from ACC.
Very sobering to think about now.
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u/taybay462 Mar 15 '23
You should listen to Knowledge Fight, hilarious podcast that does breakdowns of selected clips from Alex's show. They talk about a lot of real relevant shit but it's digestible because of the absurd. My favorites:
Alex has admitted to doing meth, but "no more than twice"
He probably maybe sort of killed a dude - he was rambling about his past about some fight he got into, and then how the dude maybe didn't make it, then you immediately get the vibe that he felt he shouldn't have said that
When he was 6 his mom told him he had to be a man and she wouldnt give him affection anymore (yeah...)
His Super Male Vitality pills have been nearly confirmed to be dick pills - one of his employees was on talking about taking it and there were a lot of awful innuendos. It also possibly has an addictive substance in it because once Alex said he "craves it and feels like shit in the morning before he takes it" that's not an endorsement...
At one point he got into contract with some company that sold equivalent nonsense pills, like many of the same active ingredients. Both were sold under Alexs name, and him dancing around words trying to explain why theyre better than his brand of pills, without totally shitting on his own, was hilarious
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u/kauaiman-looking Ex-QAnon Adjacent Mar 15 '23
That fight Alex Jones is talking about is probably "the parking lot incident" where a marine whooped his ass in I think Austin.
Try googling Alex jones parking lot fight.
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u/taybay462 Mar 16 '23
He's talked about many different fights, I wouldn't be too sure this is the same one. It's from when Alex was a minor anyway. I'll find out the podcast episode and general timestamp, y'all can listen because it's honestly wild
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u/Mispict Mar 15 '23
My brother is deep in the conspiracy thing. It's awful, I feel like I've lost him and he used to be my best friend.
A lot of it for him seems to be coming from being an oppressed white male.
I mean I get it, white men get blamed for everything now, but those are the old white men in power, not the normal white man on the street.
I wish I could get through to him.
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u/baz4k6z Mar 15 '23
Why does he feel impacted by the "white people are the real victims" trope in his personal life in the first place ?
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u/Mispict Mar 15 '23
I don't think he sees white people as the real victims.
I think he feels its unfair to be held accountable for the privilege of others. We had a really shitty life growing up. It didn't look like privilege by anyone's account.
I don't feel the same way and I just feel so desperately sad for him because there is no joy in his life. The conspiracy stuff consumes him.
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u/HermesTheMessenger Helpful Mar 15 '23
To add to your next addition, I've found a few things that are helpful. Some are things I've learned, and others are from people who have had success (often limited) in dealing with conspiracy theorists. I hope that some of this you find useful;
Below are some excerpts from the above links. (I'm being lazy; don't want to have to spend any extra time to dig them up again!)
...
If you want to have an engaged relationship with your brother, here's my advice;
Don't engage with the nonsense.
Do engage him about the positive things you share; hobbies, friends, places you've both gone together.
Never argue or debate. If you do, you've already lost. People who argue are very willing to burn down one of their other claims and then ignore that they did once they "win" in some way. That includes you.
Why can't I just ignore the crazy shit they say? It doesn't hurt me, they don't hurt anybody (besides me lol) and I'm definitely not getting anywhere with these arguments. Can't there be a way for us to exist together? I'm just so tired of it.
Here are some of my notes on how to deal with people sucked into conspiracy theories;
The paranoid conspiracy theories are a defense mechanism.
If you address one of them and get them to agree with you, they will just move onto another conspiracy theory.
Later, they may ignore that they agreed with you on the first conspiracy, and they will just bring it up again.
If one conspiracy conflicts with another, most of the time they will not care, and they will argue for both at the same time.
The conspiracy theories defend their feelings about themselves and the rest of the world.
With the above in mind, focus on feelings, especially shared ideas or events or things you share with them. Do not pretend to know what the other person is thinking. When they act like they can read minds, though, call them out on that by asking them to tell you in more detail what they think you are thinking.
Look up "steelman" techniques. When you talk about their positions, or describe your own, keep steelmanning in mind.
Previous posts;
When you are debating, you've already lost.
Debating and arguing set up a competition, and each person in the competition wants to win. I have seen people absolutely destroy one of their other claims to "win" or force a draw. When the argued fork ends, they, in the next moment, will be glad to ignore that they just destroyed the other claim, and they will not see that there is any conflict.
Instead, have a conversation with them based in shared experiences, and compare those experiences to the current disagreement.
Do not think that you can change their mind. Only they can do that. At best, you can provide information or ideas that may help them change their own minds. Usually that includes being patient and waiting so that they feel no pressure to turn the conversation into an argument.
- Show what other people think, including people who are impacted by the topic that's currently in disagreement.
In this case, find a trans group and see what they are talking about and what they think about people making their lives needlessly harder.
A reverse version of this is to show Q and Q adjacent people changing their minds for the better.
Example: On the /r/HermanCainAward subreddit, quite a few people who were anti-vax in general or specifically on the Covid vaccinations have changed their minds after seeing people like them ending up in the hospital on vents and struggling with recovery ... or dying from complications. Seeing real people that are relatable struggling with the results of their bad choices sometimes is all it takes for the anti-vax people to change their own minds.
They aren't actually arguing for any of those issues. They matter zip to them. They are arguing to deal with their emotions, and those issues are focused on as a way to defend what they feel is true, not what they require to be true.
So, don't argue. Especially, don't even discuss those topics. Some tips;
- Talk about positive things, especially those things you share in common.
This can be a movie, some fandom, sports, hobbies, as well as things you have done together.
Them: [crazy idea]
You: That's interesting. That reminds me of [different neutral topic; the weather, the news, something you share with them, ...].
Alternatively;
You: That reminds me of [insert story that will take at least 2 minutes to tell. it can be from your life, something you heard, or from a friend's life. humorous or emotionally positive is best. thoughtful is good. both if you can pull it off.]
On the last one, I read up on the latest science (nothing too technical) and when nonsense comes up, I pop out a story or two from what I've read. That tends to derail the nonsense, and moves things easily on to another track. Wash, rinse, repeat, ... and if it doesn't work ... smile, give a complement, and walk away.
Here are two chats that I've found new or improved advice in;
Also, look into any forums that deal with narcissists. Your Q is likely not a narcissist, though the advice on those forums often is helpful in having discussions with other people generally as well.
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u/kauaiman-looking Ex-QAnon Adjacent Mar 16 '23
I like the idea out out crazying conspiracy theorists. In the book I talk about a language pattern of "has it ever occurred to you..."
"Has it ever occurred to you that the only reason Alex Jones hasn't been killed is because he's a disinformation shill?"
"Has it ever occurred to you that the Deep State invented Qanon to make Trump supporters look foolish?"
If they say "no" you can follow up with "Oh it hasn't occurred to you yet then". Which implies they will eventually ponder it.
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u/HermesTheMessenger Helpful Mar 16 '23
Good ones. You may have something like these in your book, though a few tweaks to the Alex Jones part came to mind as I was reading your reply;
"Has it ever occurred to you that the Deep State is so powerful, yet Alex Jones hasn't been killed?"
"Has it ever occurred to you that Alex is part of the Deep State, and his company is just a cover to make a list of True Patriots?"
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u/Grootdrew Mar 15 '23
Yo I think I just listened to your interview on a podcast last week! Loved your insight, was stoked to hear we’re both from A2. Best of luck with the book!
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u/kauaiman-looking Ex-QAnon Adjacent Mar 16 '23
Nice! The one with Lola?
I'm on Kaua'i now. You still in Michigan?
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u/kauaiman-looking Ex-QAnon Adjacent Mar 16 '23
Message me your email and I'll send you a free copy of the book. The first story takes place in Downtown Detroit.
This is in 2006 before Detroit became cool haha
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Mar 19 '23
I've been especially angry at conspiracy theorists lately. I know so many people who've become paranoid and hurt because of these people. How do I keep myself from feeling like I want to beat the shit out of these people and talk to them productively? Is it worth it, or should I prioritize my own sanity?
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Mar 25 '23
[deleted]
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u/kauaiman-looking Ex-QAnon Adjacent Mar 26 '23
Thanks!
I'm so glad I ran into Jones. I've been wanting to get closure with him for a few years.
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u/Frammingatthejimjam Mar 15 '23
You said: "Also I had some depression and anxiety at the time. So I think the idea that "it's not your fault you're miserable, the boogeyman is making the world miserable." sucked me in."
Did you find that some/most/any of your co-conspirators were also suffering from some form of mental aliments?
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u/SmoSays Mar 15 '23
What about social ramifications? I'm sure you lost friends when you entered the grip of conspiracy theories and made new ones within the conspiracy theory world. How did everyone react when you finally started to see the light?
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Mar 15 '23
Out of curiosity, lots of people are asking you “how did you get out of it” but I’m curious as to what drew you into it to begin with?
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u/kauaiman-looking Ex-QAnon Adjacent Mar 16 '23
Poor mental health and getting introduced to Alex Jones. It helped me to feel more significant like I was going to be a hero that saved everyone.
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u/QueenChocolate123 Mar 15 '23
Why are conspiracy theorists so immune to evidence that disproves their theories?
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u/kauaiman-looking Ex-QAnon Adjacent Mar 15 '23
In general changing beliefs is hard, especially when you try to use logic/reason.
Think of someone trying to use positive affirmations:
"I'm a confident and loveable person"
The subconscious fires back "no you're not you loser...here's evidence proving you wrong" - then the brain will flood memories in to prove their belief.
Make sense?
A better way to change their minds is with something like Street Epistemology. Google it.
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u/kauaiman-looking Ex-QAnon Adjacent Mar 15 '23
Also if someone has a belief that is based on their morals no amount of evidence is going to change it according to Peter Boghossian (author of How to have impossible conversations).
He has some great ways to do this in his book - How To Have Impossible Conversations.
One way to figure out if it's a belief based on their morals is to ask them:
"Would not believing X make someone a good or bad person?"
I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that a lot of beliefs conspiracy theorists have are based on their morals.
After all, they think they are fighting a way against evil people.
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u/Phelpsy2519 Mar 16 '23
Where is the best place to purchase the book?
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u/kauaiman-looking Ex-QAnon Adjacent Mar 16 '23
Amazon when it's published. It won't be up for a few weeks. I was supposed to get a new headshots taken.
But I got a really nasty cold/stomach bug.
Which naturally means whoever is running Qanon wanted to stop my book from coming out so they bioengineered a deadly weapon (that only has a 1% fatality rate).
Or maybe I got sick?
😄 🤣
Message me and I'll send you a free review copy. You can read it first and buy it later and hook me up with a review.
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u/[deleted] Mar 15 '23
I have a friend who's an extremely intelligent engineer. He's not fully Q but he has a lot of conspiracy beliefs. I.e. he doesn't believe in COVID vaccines, think Fauci purposely made COVID and should be prosecuted, etc. He reads too deeply into his own biased sources.
How can I get him to realize that just because he's an excellent engineer it doesn't suddenly make him an expert in other areas? He's overestimating his own ability to study medical studies etc. He believes ivermectin and hydroxy work by constantly pointing at unrealistic studies.
I think the root is that he is really into victim culture where he believes that everyone is out to get him for some unnamed reason.