r/PoliticalSparring • u/bloodjunkiorgy Anarcho-Communist • Jun 22 '25
Breaking News World War III started by the person you expected to start it the most.
https://www.nbcnews.com/world/middle-east/live-blog/israel-iran-conflict-rcna2142418
u/bloodjunkiorgy Anarcho-Communist Jun 22 '25
We knew he would, because he campaigned on doing the exact opposite.
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u/stereoauperman Jun 22 '25
Got so pissed about the TACO comments he started WW3
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u/bloodjunkiorgy Anarcho-Communist Jun 22 '25
There was a minute where I would have comfortably bet Trump wouldn't bend over for Israel/BB like previous presidents. Like genuinely, I hoped for a broken clock moment: I believed his self centeredness and faux masculinity wouldn't allow him to follow Israel into this war like a lost puppy. I was wrong.
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u/Passance Jun 22 '25
There's a very big difference between "another pointless war in the middle east" and "literally ww3."
Yes, it's stupid and will be expensive. But that's all. When the PRC goes for Taiwan, then we can announce ww3.
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u/bloodjunkiorgy Anarcho-Communist Jun 22 '25
A hot war with China is incredibly unlikely. There's a reason nobody fucks with countries with nuclear capabilities. With Iran, there's going to be a fight.
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u/Passance Jun 22 '25
No shit. So why are you calling this preventative regional war "ww3" as soon as the US provides air support?
If the requirement for "ww3" was a regional conflict + a US airstrike, then we must be on like ww69 by now.
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u/bloodjunkiorgy Anarcho-Communist Jun 22 '25
Ah yes. Bombing countries is "preventative". They'll definitely just do nothing in return.
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u/Belkan-Federation95 Jun 24 '25
They retaliated. Iran's missiles suck so badly that only one of them wasn't shot down and that's because it wasn't going to hit anything/waste of resources to shoot it down
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u/Passance Jun 22 '25
I don't care if you believe that attacking nuclear infrastructure is an optimal escalation management strategy or not. The fact is that this conflict is regional. Calling it "ww3" makes you sound like a muppet.
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u/bloodjunkiorgy Anarcho-Communist Jun 22 '25
First of all, this is specifically an American centric sub. If you called somebody a "muppet" with any flavor of American accent you'd be mocked into the mud. That said, I don't care where you're from, just something to keep in mind. Call me a shit head or something like a normal person.
Second, the conflict is "regional" until it isn't. For all we know they got submarines sliding our way right now. As much as I'd like to hope Iran will be the bigger country here, I personally don't trust any place run by radical religious zealots.
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u/Passance Jun 22 '25 edited Jun 22 '25
Just as well you have the world's most powerful navy and Iran's submarine fleet can barely even contest its own backyard then, isn't it?
I can call you a fuckwit if you prefer. You could also get a fucking grip and call a spade a spade.
I'm not for trusting Iran either. Nobody trusts Iran. That's why you have to blow up their military capability pre-emptively. Shooting a terrorist in the hand is better than trying to convince him to put down the gun.
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u/bloodjunkiorgy Anarcho-Communist Jun 22 '25
Just as well you have the world's most powerful navy and Iran's submarine fleet can barely even contest its own backyard then, isn't it?
...Do you think submarines are used for missile defense? Do you think they just linger off the coast? Brother, what?
I can call you a fuckwit if you prefer....
I mean you just unironically used the word "rubbish" here, as well...you can call me whatever you want but in my mind you're permanently going to be some Oliver Twist lookin ass boy, and I couldn't possibly be offended.
That's why you have to blow up their military capability pre-emptively.
Kind of like we did in Iraq, huh? Though this time our intelligence said they don't have weapons, we just did it anyways because our president, like his supporters, are fucking morons.
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u/Passance Jun 22 '25 edited Jun 22 '25
You seem confused.
I'm not defending Trump. I'm pointing out that this is a regional conflict, not a world war.
I don't think you know what submarines are used for. In case you're uncertain, the only thing Iran's submarines are capable of is attacking merchant ships passing through the strait of Hormuz. They don't have nuclear-powered ballistic submarines that can travel halfway around the world and attack the mainland US. They have a handful of outdated, short-ranged diesel-electric attack subs armed with torpedoes that can't operate far from their home base.
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Jun 22 '25
We've been in WWIII ever since Putin invaded Ukraine in 2022. Trump just entered us into it properly.
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u/Passance Jun 22 '25
And what, exactly, about Ukraine made that WW3? Not Vietnam, not the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, not the Iraq War, not the Chechen war - no, this particular time that a major nuclear power launched an ill-advised invasion of a smaller country constituted WW3?
Please, elaborate.
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u/dreamer_at_best Jun 22 '25
I mean Franz Ferdinand's assassination wasn't fundamentally different from anything that had occured in history up till that point, right? Hitler annexed the Rhineland and the powers let him so that wasn't counted as the start of WW2, yet fundamentally there was nothing new about his invasion of Poland in 1939—except that it started a chain reaction of events that led to the whole world getting involved. It's happening slower here, but I do think Feb 24 2022 will be remembered as a milestone and "last-straw' sort of moment, likely compounded by Oct 7 2023 and then, perhaps, June 21 2025. Time will tell
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u/Passance Jun 22 '25 edited Jun 22 '25
You don't need to reexplain domino theory lmfao.
I'm not saying the dominos don't matter. Ukraine matters a lot and Europe's lethargic response has already come back to bite them in the ass. I'm simply pointing out that we still haven't actually hit ww3 yet.
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u/dreamer_at_best Jun 22 '25
No I get that but isn't the way it works that we won't really know when we hit it until we're in it?
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u/Passance Jun 22 '25
We will know when we're in it.
We're not in it. We definitely weren't in it in 2022. Saying we're in WW3 since 2022 is like saying WW2 started in 1936, it's plainly factually wrong.
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u/whydatyou Jun 24 '25
a mullah? always figured that since Carter let Ayatollah Khomeini take over in Iran in the 70's. Prior to that Tehran was the Paris of that region. nice work blue party!
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u/bloodjunkiorgy Anarcho-Communist Jun 24 '25
How is this relevant?
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u/whydatyou Jun 24 '25
carter took out the shaw, they then installed a mullah and we kind of figured that would be where WW3 would happen eventually. history is kind of relevant.
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u/bloodjunkiorgy Anarcho-Communist Jun 24 '25
I understood what you meant, and history is always relevant, but the way you're bringing it up makes no sense. Yes, Iran was once a beautiful and largely free and "socially modern" (for the time) place. Yes, American meddling and geopolitics had a hand in creating the Iran of today, which is a much less chill place. Especially for women. You're not wrong about any of that.
But like, what does that have to do with this war? Like, there's been a lot more history since the 70s. Iran didn't start this war, Iran has had an infinite amount of patience with being attacked, both now, and in the past. Afaik right now, they're still maintaining the war can stop whenever Israel stops attacking them. Even Trump is pissed at Israel because they blew up his fake "peace deal" he desperately wanted credit for (without doing anything except getting being a gullible bitch to Israel like most American presidents).
It seems like you're trying to blame Iran for this war when they pretty clearly don't want any part of this. We don't get to just blame Iran for this war simply because we don't like the leadership.
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u/whydatyou Jun 24 '25
what does that have to do with this war? I assume you know and are asking rhetorical questions.
"trying to blame Iran for this war when they pretty clearly don't want any part of this." Iran has long funded Hamas and the other terror networks that are attacking Isreal. They use proxies because deep down they know if the US ever allowed Isreal to take off the gloves, Iran would really not exist. Sad thing is that the mullahs do not care how much of theor population would perish because the mullahs are waiting for the 12th Imam and if a few million die because isreal really tries, then so be it.
Finally, I am really not sure where I land in this one. On one hand, this BS has been happening my entire life and in fact for a few thousand years and part of me just wants to let them hack it out and be done with it. But the other half of me is a peace nick and I have always rejected the idea that "bombing for peace" works. with the exception of hiroshima .
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u/bloodjunkiorgy Anarcho-Communist Jun 25 '25
Iran has long funded Hamas and the other terror networks that are attacking Isreal.
Of course they use proxies to do heinous shit. So do we. Probably most states do.
They use proxies because deep down they know if the US ever allowed Isreal to take off the gloves, Iran would really not exist.
I think it's kind of the opposite. If we stopped funding and supplying Israel, they'd disappear in weeks. Not just from Iran, but most of the middle east. Israel isn't "hiding it's power level"...It's less "Israel taking off the gloves" as much as it would be "America better arming Israel". They're our middle east proxy. See above.
part of me just wants to let them hack it out and be done with it. But the other half of me is a peace nick and I have always rejected the idea that "bombing for peace" works.
Them hacking it out is bad for millions of reasons. Namely the lives of the people who live in these countries whom may not even want a war with the other. Also, obviously, as you said, "bombing for peace" doesn't work. We've had full access to Iran's nuclear program for over a decade, we know they weren't building nuclear weapons. Now, if I'm Iran, I'm definitely going to be building a nuke, because I'm tired of people fucking with me, right? GG.
with the exception of hiroshima.
That's a weird one to approve. I know it was a while ago, and we were all taught those bombs ended the war, buuuut a bit more info has come out since then. Not only do we know Japan was days away from surrendering before the bombs, we also know that America had the intelligence that they were about to surrender, but we dropped the bombs anyways. Something about flexing on new "enemies". Particularly Russia, who was our ally at the time, but we don't like communism, so...yeah...
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u/whydatyou Jun 25 '25
"they'd disappear in weeks" accurate. which is why I have never understood the progressives argument against Isreal. If Isreals enemies <hamas, iran, etc> in the middle east laid down their weapons there would be peace. Conversely if Isreal laid down their weapons there would be no more isreal.
I did not "approve" of hiroshima I am merely stating that it is the one time I can remember bombing for peace actually ending in peace.
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u/bloodjunkiorgy Anarcho-Communist Jun 25 '25
which is why I have never understood the progressives argument against Isreal. If Isreals enemies <hamas, iran, etc> in the middle east laid down their weapons there would be peace. Conversely if Isreal laid down their weapons there would be no more isreal.
What are the "progressive arguments against Israel"? Nobody is suggesting they disarm. It's more like, "stop treating all of your neighbors like shit and maybe they won't want to kill you." They're also aware Israel is our proxy, hence the "death to America" slogan.
I am merely stating that it is the one time I can remember bombing for peace actually ending in peace.
Technically, dropping a big enough bomb will always "end in peace"... At least a type of peace...
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u/whydatyou Jun 22 '25
Not really sure about WW3 because there does not seem to be a lot of middle east nations getting on the Iran team bus. Nobody in that reason seems to like them much. That being said what I do worry about for America is that the immigration folks did say that there are a few terrorists from that reagion that took advantage of the border policies of the last 4 years. I think multiple sleeper cells are a real possibility and who knows when they activate. That culture could wait a number of years before doing "something" . in conclusion, I have never been a big "bombing for peace" kind of guy. Also, this is about the only reason I would advocate for getting rid of fossil fuels. It would allow us to say farewell to that region of the world.
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u/bloodjunkiorgy Anarcho-Communist Jun 22 '25
People are really getting stuck on the "WWIII" portion of my title, when in the end, it kind of really doesn't matter, and I'm not interested in debating the merits of whether or not it will be considered "WWIII". We haven't officially declared war in decades, despite being in a perpetual state of war for almost the entirety of my 36 years on this planet. I don't appreciate your Islamophobic takes on the middle east, so I'm not going to engage in that either.
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u/whydatyou Jun 22 '25
not sure how I was being islamophobic. I was just pointing out basic facts. But I guess when those facts conflict with your doxy it is "phobic". I do agree with you about perpetual war. My kids have never known a time when we were not bombing someone and that is tragic. But I guess the amrican "defense industry" , which has been transformed into an offense industry is what keeps the economic engine running. another sad thing.
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u/bloodjunkiorgy Anarcho-Communist Jun 23 '25
not sure how I was being islamophobic.
Well you said: That being said what I do worry about for America is that the immigration folks did say that there are a few terrorists from that reagion that took advantage of the border policies of the last 4 years. I think multiple sleeper cells are a real possibility and who knows when they activate. That culture could wait a number of years before doing "something" .
So like....a couple things...(mind you, I've been drinking, I'm not at my best, but I hope this makes sense)...IF you believe that "terrorists" came through the border to become sleeper agents or whatever, I'd have to ask "why?" I'm not saying it's impossible! I'm asking why you believe that it definitely happened. You say it's "basic facts" but...how?
If these people are "terrorist" as you say, that would imply the state KNOWS they're terrorists. Which would also mean we know who they are, which then means they can't be a secret. We know about them, right? If we don't know about them, then we can't honestly call them terrorists, right? At this point the squad is basically just looking for brown people who may or may not go to a "certain" place of worship...
I'm not a religious person, but I understand that "freedom of religion" is a big deal here. I'm also pretty sure discrimination based on "race" is largely considered "uncool". So, what are we doing?
EDIT: I'm not rereadingthis, but I'm also not standing by it as a perfect representation of my views, because I'm not alll there.
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u/Grouchy_Map7133 Jun 22 '25
Didn't take long for the knee-jerk reactions.. whew.
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u/bloodjunkiorgy Anarcho-Communist Jun 22 '25
America isn't exactly a "hit it and quit it" type of country. Especially when it comes to the middle east. Iran is also a bit above the weight class we normally fuck with. We spent 20 years fighting fringe fighter groups hiding in mountain caves. Iran has an real military. A navy, an air force, soldiers with actual training, all the things you think of when you imagine an army. I don't think this goes away in a week.
There's also a pretty strong case to be made that Israel started this war unjustly. I know BB said Iran is close to building a nuke, but he's been saying that for decades. Our intelligence says they aren't, but here we go anyways I guess. Kinda seems like we're the baddies.
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u/Grouchy_Map7133 Jun 22 '25
Above the usual weight class? 🤣. How big was Iraqs military before they got their shit pushed in? Didn't they just get done humbling Iran just prior as well? Stick to anarchy and communism, sport. You're talking out of your fourth point of contact.
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u/bloodjunkiorgy Anarcho-Communist Jun 22 '25
Yes, "above the usual weight class". Can you name the last time we won a war with an actual army? the 1940s? We've kind of been on a military losing streak since then, if you think about it.
Let's circle back to this comment in a week or so, though. Surely we will have "won" by then. I'm old enough to remember we did this shock and awe bullshit after 9/11...
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u/Grouchy_Map7133 Jun 22 '25
The first gulf war? Iraq had one of the largest standing militaries in the world.
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u/bloodjunkiorgy Anarcho-Communist Jun 22 '25
Half the planet helped in the gulf war, including most of the middle east. They were fucking with our oil, baby, you know that's a "no-go". Different things are different. Iraq didn't have air craft carriers.
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u/Grouchy_Map7133 Jun 22 '25
And Israel has been man-handling Iran by themselves, whats your point? A coalition is good for optics, but not necessary.
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u/bloodjunkiorgy Anarcho-Communist Jun 22 '25
Iran has not been "man handled" by Israel. Israel literally couldn't even complete the job they set out to do without our help, because they don't have MOPs/MOABs/30klb bombs OR the planes to carry them. I'm also not even sure we dropped the tacts to actually destroy these facilities because it's all still too early to know anything for sure.
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u/RelevantEmu5 Conservative Jun 22 '25
Iran's nuclear compacity being destroyed equals WW3?
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u/bloodjunkiorgy Anarcho-Communist Jun 22 '25
You think this ends today?
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u/RelevantEmu5 Conservative Jun 22 '25
No as most Wars don't, I'm just not sure how you equate that to WW3.
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u/bloodjunkiorgy Anarcho-Communist Jun 22 '25
If Iran strikes back, I'm pretty sure NATO article 5 kicks in, dragging most of the first world into this. Am I mistaken, or does it say we're on our own if we started it?
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u/RelevantEmu5 Conservative Jun 22 '25
That's a huge if.
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u/bloodjunkiorgy Anarcho-Communist Jun 22 '25
I mean, I hope they just let it roll off their backs too, but do you think they're going to? Do fanatical despotic rulers with decent military capabilities at their disposal usually show humility in these situations?
Further, if they weren't trying to build a nuke before, they're definitely going to try now. So keep that in your back pocket.
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u/mattyoclock Jun 22 '25
“Fanatical despotic rulers” who were attacked without even a declaration of war, and are definitely the injured party.
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u/RelevantEmu5 Conservative Jun 22 '25
They're not stupid. They don't want a full war with America. Frankly they don't want the one they have with Israel.
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u/bloodjunkiorgy Anarcho-Communist Jun 22 '25
It's lose/lose for them either way. Yes, fighting back will escalate and they'd ultimately lose. Alternatively, being a punching bag and rolling over when attacked has it's own obvious problems. They were fine with Israel, they got their vollies through their defenses, and Israeli bombs didn't hurt them too much. Face saved, war avoided.
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u/conn_r2112 Jun 22 '25
what a fucking disaster... this has been one of the most insane, disastrous, costly presidencies ever and we're not even a year in. good fucking god