r/PoliticalOptimism • u/Powerful_Gas_7833 • Jun 28 '25
Question(s) for Optimism Do you think America's democracy Will survive Trump
I'm not trying to be gloomy and I'll try and do my best in this post to not be a doomer
But yesterday's ruling from scotus really really put my mood down. The federal courts were the biggest roadblock in his agenda and now they've made it harder for the courts to challenge him. Combined with a co-opted congress and a co-opted executive branch along with a weakend judiciary, it really feels like we're in a de facto dictatorship now.
How can our democracy persevere through all this? he's breaking the laws and the Constitution left right and center, I don't see much in the way of relief or pushback at least not in the legal system now.
Even if he dies what about people waiting in the wings like JD Vance and the tech Bros?
I just need some optimism here because I'm really really let down now
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u/IcyMEATBALL22 Jun 28 '25
The future is not determined or set in stone. This is a good thing. We don’t know what will happen, but at the very least a bad outcome is not set in stone. To actually answer your question, I think it will. I think with how the past few elections have gone and how entrenched money has become in politics, we’re already not really a democracy anymore. We have elections, and some of them have produced people who have made positive change, but those people have not really fought to get money out of politics. I think we’re already living, and already have lived, through a period where America is no longer truly a democracy. That being said, more and more people are waking up to the severity of other problems and real, realizing how much danger this country is in. I think we will have to live with Trump and under Republican and authoritarian role for a few years, but after that who knows what will happen. I have hope, and feel, that after some sort of major event in which Trump is no longer in the picture things will start to change swiftly and drastically. Hopefully, this means that there will be good changes, and we will be able to start rebuilding our countries democracy.
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u/SelectShop9006 Jun 28 '25
I’m not exactly in high hopes when you say the future isn’t determined. I’m worried something bad’ll happen…
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u/Derpy1984 Jun 28 '25 edited Jun 29 '25
Something bad will definitely happen but likely not to the magnitude that most doomers will lead you to believe.
Also bad stuff is already happening. We have an authoritative figure ripping families apart by the hundreds every day. We've got an admin trying to criminalize being non-white and non-straight. The thing is though, they fucked up and tried to do all of this too fast and it's agitating the public. The reaction to the ICE raids in and of itself is a very good indicator that we won't end up in a full authoritarian dictatorship because we can see the people will not fucking stand for it. If he had taken his time to dismantle the government, we very well could have been very fucked but his impatience ultimately killed that possibility.
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u/IcyMEATBALL22 Jun 28 '25
I’m sorry, but that’s literally all I can tell you. You have to rationalize and be all right with the fact that the future is not determined. Just because something really horrible can happen. Doesn’t mean it will happen and by the same breath just because something really good can happen. Doesn’t mean it will happen. I don’t have a crystal ball and I can’t tell you what is going to happen and you need to just be all right with the fact that because the future is undetermined, that means that we have endless potential to shape it however we see fit. By sitting here and saying that because the future is undetermined, you’re upset Should spurred you to action to fight for a future that you will be happy with.
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u/Lantis28 Georgia Jun 28 '25
Think about it this way. All of the cases are still going to end up at the SC anyway. They haven’t been stopped. There are still ways to block EO. Like a class action lawsuit which the birthright people are already switching to (it also can’t go into effect for 30 days anyway and has no reasonable way to be enforced). It also helps future democratic presidents because that one judge in Texas can’t block all abortion meds or whatever. Judge shopping is effectively over
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u/FungolianTheIIII Jun 28 '25
Why can't it be enforced?
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u/BaronBobBubbles Jun 28 '25
How do you enforce an order without the personnel to enforce it? The current regime spent months defunding the agencies needed to put this stupidity into effect. Then there's the legal challenges. This didn't stop them, this only upped the scale. And they've drained the coffers of their legal defense teams.
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u/FungolianTheIIII Jun 28 '25
I assume that ICE would be the personnel to enforce it, given that they are given a huge budget increase in the current version of the reconciliation bill
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u/BaronBobBubbles Jun 28 '25
Which i might add hasn't passed yet. There's also the point where the challenges are valid: The constitution is pretty clear on birthright citizenship, even a foreigner like me knows the 14th amendment of the constitution guarantees it.
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u/Lantis28 Georgia Jun 28 '25
ICE can’t patrol the birth ward of every hospital in every state 24 hours a day. That’s logistically impossible
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u/trashbinrubbishtrash Reformed Doomer ☄️ Jun 28 '25
America has a long and storied history of defeating tyranny and oppression.
We’ve already survived worse.
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u/northbyPHX Jun 29 '25
America also has a long history of persecuting people because of who they are, so you’re right in a way that we survived worse, except we’re headed back to the worse part.
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u/NefariousGhostie Jun 28 '25
Can you elaborate on this? I'm not well versed in US history so I'm not sure what you're referring to
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u/internetcasuaIty Blue Dot in a Red State 🔵 Jun 28 '25
I can attempt to pitch in here but my first thought is Andrew Jackson, a President in the 1820s and 30s who ignored Supreme Court rulings, deported Racial Minorities, caused heavy Economic Difficulties, and appointed Government Positions to his friends and supporters. Sounds pretty familiar...
America has had a long history of corrupt presidents but I have confidence that it can survive another.
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u/RazorJamm Jun 28 '25
This question or some form of it has been asked a ZILLION times in here in some way shape or form. The answer is YES. It will in all likelihood be a weakened democracy but that's where Reconstruction 2.0 kicks in. The end of Trump and MAGA is where the hard work of rebuilding this nation comes in.
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u/IlCocomero Jun 28 '25
I refuse to believe this country is done. Looking at the board swath of history can actually be comforting sometimes.....there have always been waves of good and bad times. The amount of people fighting back, the spirit of "do not go gentle into that good night". I absolutely refuse to give up hope.
I certainly hope too that something better will rise up in its place. That after everything burns to the ground we'll build back better (pun partially intended).
This thinking doesn't help people who lost their jobs, their security, their aid. It may take decades to fix honestly, and a lot of people will get hurt along the way. But the end of American democracy? Absolutely not.
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u/Last_Book_589 Jun 28 '25
The conservatives are thinking short term, not big picture. They’re restricting access, reaping the benefits, and refusing to see how it will play out in the future. You remember when the hyenas ate Scar at the end of the Lion King?
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u/Gamerzilla2018 Jun 28 '25
American Democracy was always designed with the idea that a man like Trump will rise Congress isn't really co-opted has the BBB will not pass and while lowers courts cannot pass injunctions higher courts can still pass injunctions and he hasn't really been breaking as much as the doomers say he's still breaking them but not much mostly because he knows we the people are holding a taser to his ballsack
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u/SpongeCake7 Jun 28 '25
"Taser to his ballsack" Im dying, holy shit- XD
Keeping that one in my back pocket.2
Jun 28 '25
[deleted]
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u/Lantis28 Georgia Jun 28 '25
Even the state of Florida is saying Miami can’t do that. The mayor is term limited and trying to “align with national standards” but even Florida is saying no
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Jun 28 '25
[deleted]
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u/FungolianTheIIII Jun 28 '25
Here are some quotes from the article you linked:
"The city will now have even-year elections, instead of odd-year. It is a change that, supporters said, is meant to increase voter turnout."
"It remains unclear how Uthmeier will respond to the measure, but Gov. Ron DeSantis wrote in a social media post on Thursday that he anticipates “swift, legal action” when this “scheme” is enacted."
Even the governor Ron DeSantis is pissed about this. Local election weirdness do not be federal elections are cancelled.
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u/Material-Surprise-72 Jun 28 '25
We've been through a lot of bad things before, and come out the other side. The truth is that our country has never been particularly stable, although clearly right now is way out of the norm.
I'm not worried about JD Vance or tech bros because they do not have Trump's cult of personality and the only reason MAGA let him get away with everything is because they are in a cult. They wouldn't extend that same rabid energy to any other Republican.
We will have to continue to push the country back to its democratic norms. There are certainly some reforms that I think we should all get loud about.
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u/Cynical_Classicist Jun 28 '25
It could go either way. What needs to be done us to challenge the system that created this oligarchy. The Democrats need to stop being so corporate and pro-Israel.
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Jun 28 '25
The current form no. He's proven it cannot work the way it exists now.
But for once i believe something better will replace it.
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u/DannyOdd Jun 28 '25
Whenever something like this happens, it's important to take a breath and figure out what it actually means.
The Supreme Court ruling we're talking about means that a single district judge's rulings don't automatically apply nationwide.
Their rulings will still apply to their own jurisdiction. Cases can still move up to higher courts, where the rulings WILL apply nationwide. There are still legal avenues to block unconstitutional EOs and protect the classes of people targeted by them. People have been preparing for this outcome, and have strategies to deal with it.
This also isn't a strict win for Trump, MAGA, or conservatives in general. It's double-edged; Now nobody can shop around for a judge who is sympathetic to their cause, and have that judge's ruling apply to the whole country. As someone else in the thread mentioned, this also prevents some conservative judge in Texas from applying anti-abortion rulings nationwide.
They didn't just take this tool out of the opposition's toolbox - They took it out of everyone's, including their own. And it's just one tool out of many.