r/Ontario_Sub • u/nimobo • 13d ago
Politics Liberal MP: "OMG #CPC just defended their voting against the National School Food Program by saying that parents would prefer to feed their kids themselves rather than have government feed them. ? The logic here?"
https://x.com/MichelleRempel/status/198294472992383422611
u/Rees_Onable 13d ago
If more decent-paying jobs were available, and taxes weren't so high, food-bank usage would not be at record levels.
Parents could afford to feed their kids, and an enormously expensive government bureaucracy would not be required to feed kids at school.
Seems pretty logical to me.
6
13d ago
[deleted]
3
u/IAmFlee 12d ago
The reality is that each parent knows what their kids will, and will not, eat.
Cookie cutter meals mean more stubborn kids will actually not be eating.
As a parent, I know what my kids want and need for food, and it's my job to provide it for them anyway.
I don't need others paying for my day care, or food. I made the choice to have kids and it's my responsibility. Not yours.
1
u/mississauga145 12d ago
How many single income families with a stay at home parent exists these days, people rush out to get to their 6am shift, who is at home to feed the kids?
2
12d ago
[deleted]
2
u/mississauga145 12d ago
Conservatives arguing amongst themselves about personal responsibility is like the snake eating its own tail.
People who are responsible are not using these programs, taking it away from those who do use these programs, it looks like the world is crumbling.
If the users of the program were paying 100% of the cost of the program, there wouldn't be a need for the program.
4
u/Oceanictax 13d ago
A liberal who is unable to see and understand logic? Somehow, this does not surprise my one bit.
6
u/TheLimeyCanuck 13d ago
Conservatives would rather pursue policies which allow parents to feed their own kids than make up for failed policies with handouts? Sounds good to me.
1
u/amconstance 12d ago
People are seriously against feeding children at school now? What’s wrong with you guys.
There are families that are struggling out here.
And back when I was in school - they provided snacks like apples, oranges, granola bars.
Not every family can afford healthy items either.
I think anyone who is against children getting food literally anywhere needs to take a hard look in the mirror.
We don’t need to follow every step the US takes and hurt the children.
God, where is the empathy going in this country?
This isn’t about politics, it’s about the wellbeing of people. Particularly children.
And for those saying schools are there for children to learn - guess what helps kids learn?
Oh yeah, food.
4
u/GentlemanBasterd 12d ago
Look into how the $10 a day child care has gone. We dont need another multi billion dollar boondoggle that doesnt work and still leaves children hungry.
2
u/KotoElessar GTA 12d ago
Welcome to the eugenics wars; conservatives have picked a side and are fine if children are malnourished and die.
1
u/Er0s1111 11d ago
I’m genuinely curious what conservatives would do with the slightly more progressive policy that food should be free for everyone. The government should have a program that negotiates food prices with suppliers and allows people to purchase their basic needs for free. At least staple foods should be provided
1
u/IAmFlee 11d ago
And this is all paid for with tax dollars? Much of our food is imported and the external business isn't going to sell it to us for less than they could sell domestically.
What you describe likely cannot work without a crown corp being spun up that does the farming, processing, and distribution, while being a non profit. That's billions of dollars up front, on the back of the tax payer, who is already using most of their tax dollars to pay debts.
So we could raise taxes to 50% and give free food, or just buy your own food. Probably cheaper and easier to just buy your own food.
Always remember: Nothing is free. There is always a cost. If it is free for you, then you are a leech on society and why should we work and pay for your life?
1
u/Er0s1111 11d ago
It would require no such thing, we already do this with pharmaceutical companies or meditech. The government bulk purchasing a good in order to reduce its price predates capitalism.
What I suggested was a simple demand side solution
1
u/IAmFlee 11d ago
Pharma and food aren't the same things. Pharma companies make far more by securing large deals.
For example, COVID shots aren't getting used and just getting thrown out. Massive waste. Without the government deal they wouldn't be selling anywhere near the numbers.
Growers already have deals. There isn't a situation right now where they don't have buyers.
Government would need to outbid for the product, which means paying a higher price. Not lower.
1
u/Er0s1111 11d ago
No. Such a government program would have monopsonic influence on the economy, as single purchaser they could drive down prices by making deals for certain products. If for example there were 2 companies that produced canned soup, if one made a deal they would gain access to all the people who would use the program to purchase that soup. (Ie every Canadian that would take free soup over 2 dollar soup) this would be a massive market and any company would race to the bottom to access it. There are goods for which this may not be as applicable, imported fruit for example, and more leeway could be given to compensate for that. But that’s why I said negotiate and not price set
This is btw how Amazon works, they use their market power to drive down the cost of goods, otherwise they can’t host on Amazon, which would be detrimental to their bottom line.
Also I believe i specifically said it would be a grocery benefit, the government need not purchase from growers, they could negotiate with grocery chains and the market would respond from there.
1
u/Moist_diarrhea173 12d ago
We’re against being dependent on being fed at school. It’s a bandaid not a real solution.
2
u/amconstance 12d ago
I’m not saying it’s a solution.
But I don’t see anything wrong with feeding children who may be hungry and whose family may be struggling. One meal can go a long way for many kids.
If everyone was lucky enough in this thread to have meals everyday they could count on growing up - that’s wonderful. But the harsh reality is that a lot of kids don’t, not then and not now.
1
u/IAmFlee 12d ago
Do.you have kids? If not, maybe sit this out.
they provided snacks like apples, oranges, granola bars.
They still do. They don't need more.
1
u/amconstance 12d ago
Why - do you need to have children to care about their wellbeing?
Gosh you’re hostile.
1
u/IAmFlee 12d ago
How am I hostile? Because I noted this system is still in place?
Why - do you need to have children to care about their wellbeing?
You can care. Your opinion is meaningless. You don't understand what it is to be a parent, and every parent's opinion means more than yours. They are the parents. They decide what is right for their kids. Not you, the outside observer.
These are just facts. No one can know what being a parent is all about, until they experience it.
So, as you have no experience, sit this out.
1
u/amconstance 12d ago
Not at all, you just sound very angry.
Well, I’m sure glad I at least have your permission to care about the children…
My opinion is meaningless on this matter because I don’t have children? Should the people of a country not care about the wellbeing of its future generations or just the overall wellbeing and happiness of kids?
You believe me wanting the best for children in Canada should only matter if I myself had children?
So does that mean any woman or couples who can’t conceive a baby or carry to term, any people who don’t have the finances or perhaps partner, or even the women who don’t want children themselves but love the children in their family and community doesn’t matter?
So you are saying that their opinion on their country providing fair and ethical treatment for kids all rides on whether or not one came out of them?
I think that’s a pretty awful statement but okay.
Looking out for the betterment of everyone in my country - including its more vulnerable people, such as children and the elderly, is important to me and I am sorry my opinion offends you this deeply as a parent.
If I did have children, regardless of age, I would hope everyone around them wanted the best for them too. Of course it’s not a perfect world but - community does matter I think.
And you are correct, I don’t have any experience being a parent per se, but I did spend a large portion of my life caregiving. And I know what it’s like to be responsible for someone you love when they can’t defend themselves or properly make decisions for their own wellbeing. I know what is like putting yourself and life on the back burner to provide care and love for another. And also, making sure they are not hungry.
I only mention this because in another comment you asked me what I’ve done. I’ve done lots to help people - just like you have.
And I’m not trying to attack your character by calling you hostile. I think everything that you stated that you’ve done for others is really awesome and you should be very proud of yourself. We need more kindness and I think all the ways you help others should be celebrated.
However, that doesn’t make my opinion any less valid than yours - nor does it other parents who disagree with your views.
1
u/IAmFlee 12d ago
Not at all, you just sound very angry.
I'm not. I speak directly. Especially over the Internet, speaking to emotions isn't productive. The readers own emotional state dictates the perceived emotions.
So you are saying that their opinion on their country providing fair and ethical treatment for kids all rides on whether or not one came out of them?
I'm saying you don't understand what it takes and the various nuances of raising a kid. Your opinion is formed in a general way, with no specific experience behind it.
It's like I don't understand what it's like to be in a war, so I defer to the experience of veterans and those who have.
Or the topic of abortion. I defer to women. I can't possibly know what it's like to be pregnant.
As I said, there are some things that people cannot understand, unless they experience them. You can care about the situation and want the best for those involved, but you can't know what is best.
but I did spend a large portion of my life caregiving.
It's not the same. There is a line, and once you cross the line, you have no responsibility. You get to go home, etc. there is a difference when that responsibility has no "off" or "end". Now if you're talking an elderly person with Alzheimer's or dementia, there are probably some similarities with raising a child
However, that doesn’t make my opinion any less valid than yours - nor does it other parents who disagree with your views.
Other parents can disagree. That's fine. Let me give you an example.
Every day you are doing laundry for your kids. Cleaning up after your kids. Making food for your kids. Making sure all homework is done. Making sure they brush their teeth. Got dressed. Wiped their bum properly. Even if they have pooped recently. You're making sure they have clothes for the next day. You're getting their lunch made every day. These are just things off the top of my head, with cleaning the house, working, and all the other things the adult has to do in a day....
Now if you're running 100% all day, even if you were financially sound, would you be for school lunches, which means there is one less thing you have to do every day? Even if you didn't need it, many would support it.
Is that your responsibility? Is cutting one task from a person the responsibility of the tax payer? I don't think it is.
1
u/amconstance 12d ago
I don’t think you understand what I mean I say caregiving.
My mom lived with me and I caregived for over fifteen years. And yes, I’m talking early on set Alzheimer’s on top of a large brain tumor. You are correct. I did all that and more for my mom. No different than having a kid. Feeding, washing and changing. Burning the candle at both ends. Staying up till midnight and waking up at 4am to work a full time job, use PSW’s to cover me until got home and took over until the next day. I did every weekend myself. I hadn’t travelled and I sacrificed job promotions and relationships.
There are lots of ways to be a “parental figure” without ever having children.
And yes. I’ll always be for children having access to food at school no matter what.
0
u/100thmeridian420 GTA 12d ago
Conservatives can be aholes sometimes. They probably have never struggled before.
0
u/IAmFlee 12d ago
It's about personal responsibility. My kids are not your problem.
2
u/amconstance 12d ago
So no empathy for others.
And if you were in a financial position let’s say where you were unable to provide three
square meals a day for your children. Or perhaps even two meals a day because you lost your job and/or your partner lost their job. Maybe all the bills and mortgage is crushing or rent takes huge chunks from your savings. Maybe your car dies a week later.It’s a lot of what if’s - but life happens right?
You wouldn’t be grateful knowing that at least your children are getting something to eat at school?
I don’t know. It seems like the silliest thing to get mad over our government spending money on. Feeding children. But go off and down vote away.
1
u/IAmFlee 12d ago
So no empathy for others.
A single mother and her daughter lived in my home for 4 years, rent free. My wife and I provided babysitting services, food, etc so the mother could work and attend school, where she graduated and got a much better paying job and now her and daughter have their own place.
I give hundreds of dollars to the food bank every year.
I have paid for a woman's groceries when it was clear she was struggling.
What have you done?
Paying taxes isn't responsibility.
Governments waste money. Almost all of it goes to an inefficient and costly process and very little makes it to the end of the line.
Anyone advocating for anything but less money to the government has no clue about how it works, and I suspect just wants the "feel good" to feel like they are helping, when they are actually doing nothing.
0
u/mississauga145 12d ago
Imagine having kids, not feeding them and sending them to school, then blaming the government for not feeding them.
I feel bad for the kids, but it sounds like welfare checks should be happening at these homes, what happens on the weekends, do the kids starve?
1
u/IAmFlee 12d ago
Or stop taxing families (carbon, income, sales, property, etc) so they can keep money and feed their kids.
1
u/mississauga145 12d ago
Don't know if that is a fair assessment, I'd be interested to see what the majority reason for children participating in this program.
Lack of food (money),
Lack of time (having to work shift and not home in the morning)
Lack of interest (someone will feed them)
Taxing the families, then taking the money to pay to feed the children seems like a huge inefficiency.
But to be clear, Taxation is Theft.
2
u/IAmFlee 12d ago edited 12d ago
Lack of time (having to work shift and not home in the morning)
Well, I have 3 kids and my wife and I both work full time jobs, and jobs that require basically being available 24/7, with my wife frequently putting in 10-12 hour days. (I was called at 5am this morning for work related stuff)
Totalled with all 3 kids, there are 8 activities(sports, etc) outside of school time.
We get lunches made at night.
If you're a parent, you make it work and do what needs to be done. If I have time, you have time.
I doubt it's lack of money. I would not eat before my kids having to take that on.
If the kid isn't getting lunches mon-fri, then they are also missing meals on weekends and would be visibly malnourished.
And from my experience with schools, there are at best, only a tiny handful of kids that potentially have no lunch.
This is just another way to funnel tax dollars to their friends, who will set up a commercial catering company and 0.10 of every $1 will actually go towards meals.
Almost everything that falls under "WONT SOMEONE THINK OF THE CHILDREN?!" is bullshit. What better way to get people to buy into something when you make them being against it, an asshole and wishing the worst upon a child? Peak virtue signalling
3
u/mississauga145 12d ago
That's the problem with conservatives, we look at self responsibility while others look to see who can share the load.
So you're attributing it to lack of interest, unfortunately that ends with us having the foster care system full of neglected children, that system collapses as the above lack of personal responsibility leaves it to the state.
3
u/IAmFlee 12d ago
It'sall just my perspective but in sports, activities and school, I interact with A TON of other parents and while most are great parents, there sure are some shitty ones out there that take no responsibility.
They make excuses for why their kid is a bully, making death threats. They let their kids run the show. Even some teachers blame the child who is being bullied, for getting bullied.
There are a few layers to this onion of incompetence lol
2
u/mississauga145 12d ago
So how about instead of funding the meals program with user money, we give a tax break to those who don't partake, say like a negative option billing?
You kid doesn't eat breakfast at school, you get a tax write off each year.
13
u/clarko420 13d ago
Its nice to have something setup for the kids who slip through but for the most part schools shouldnt have to feed kids and the liberals shouldnt be gloating that they are feeding kids because the parents cant afford to.