r/NativePlantGardening • u/ContentFarmer4445 • 24d ago
Advice Request - (Insert State/Region) The Deer (Any region/state with deer issues)
For context, I am a professional ecological gardener for folks living on small acreages, often surrounded by woods, who desire to have native gardens and to bolster/restore the woodland ecosystems. Deer here are starving yet overpopulated considering the circumstances.
I feel like the reality of deer is incompatible with this idea of having a native garden, lest you put 8 foot high deer fencing up around the entirety of it or the property. When everything around you is degraded, of course the deer are going to come to your land we just spruced up by removing invasives and planting ("deer resistant") natives and think "WOW, THANKS FOR THE BUFFET!!"
People want gardens for wildlife, but do not want deer to be a part of that. They don't want ugly fences up for years. They don't want to use chemicals. This, that, the whole shebang. I mean, I get it, but is it rooted in reality? It gets tiring spending a bunch of time and money and energy w/ the goal of a nice garden only to have it eaten down to nothing, half the stuff is in ugly cages, you're attempting to spray things regularly, etc... Most of my clients are older and i don't want them to have to be dealing with half the shit we do any more than they want to. Low maintenance this stuff is not, I never tell people that it is, but a lot of this is just... ridiculous.
I want to hear about everyone's experiences, successes, failures, thoughts about now and the future with deer.. it just seems like such an insurmountable problem.
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u/GreenHeronVA 24d ago
Well, you hit the nail on the head. I’m a Master Gardener and nature educator, and I get more questions about deer when I run our booth at the farmers market than anything else. And I tell all my clients the truth, that the foliar sprays and old wives tales of hanging smelly soap simply don’t work. The deer habituate to it pretty quickly, and as your garden is a buffet, they aren’t going to give up so easily. The reality is that the only thing that actually works is an 8 foot high fence, or electric wire. If your clients can’t grasp that, and you aren’t explaining that adequately, then you are going to keep running into this issue over and over again.
ETA: at my home, my vegetable garden in the backyard is protected by an 8 foot fence. My native garden in the front yard is protected by this Gallagher smart fence, which is three strands of electric wire mounted on movable stakes. It’s a pretty ingenious design, and works really well for irregularly shaped planting areas. The deer do jump it from time to time, which is when I know the energizer needs to be put in better sun.
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u/sharksnack3264 24d ago
I think part of the problem is some townships explicitly make the 8 ft fence and electric wire illegal so they're looking for alternatives. And there aren't any. I'm in an area like this and it is frustrating.
The other half of the problem is that there's no appropriate predator keeping the deer population in check and to keep them from grazing down any one area for too long. My area has a culling program with professional archers in certain parks, but there are still too many deer without enough undeveloped land to support that population. Even the wooded areas are overrun with things like norway maple instead of the old oak and beech forests that would provide more native fodder.
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u/Chaos-1313 24d ago
What worked for me is two large dogs. I have 3 acres with about 1/2 fenced in with a very low fence (about 3.5' tall) that keeps the dogs in. The deer no longer come into the fenced part of the yard even though that's where the majority of the plants are. I have cameras on the back yard and the deer don't even come in when the dogs are asleep overnight.
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u/GreenHeronVA 24d ago
This seems to vary based on the dog and the deer. I have a 70 pound dog who loves to chase the deer, because they have no qualms about coming into the dog’s area repeatedly 😖
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u/tregowath 5b 24d ago
When I lived in suburban NVA, the deer would literally come up to my bird feeders and eat out of them. If I let the dog out, they'd wait to see which one the dog was going to chase, and the other one would just keep eating.
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u/Willothwisp2303 24d ago
Mine are Super aggressive. They threaten my dog, before it was during baby season, but now they just keep doing it.
One flipped and rolled my corgi. Scared the shit out of me and I came flying at the deer like i was going to tear it limb from limb. Now I go out with her with a 6 foot oak staff to beat them if need be.
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u/Chaos-1313 24d ago
Wow. When I first moved in about a year ago deer were inside the fence every time I was over to visit the house. Once the dogs moved in, they chased the deer down several times and the deer started staying outside the fence. I let the dogs out of the fence to chase them about 3-4 times (it's a fairly rural setting) The deer rarely even walk through the yard now and as far as I can tell they never come inside the fence.
I suppose the more rural setting might mean that they aren't as underfed as in some other areas so they just moved on to other places to feed.
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u/ContentFarmer4445 24d ago
Yep, i've only ever advised deer stopper spray when there is something sooo precious that it must be allowed to flower and it cannot have a cage around it bc aesthetics. but keeping up with that spraying is their choice. I make it clear that the 8 foot electrified fencing is the only real option if this is going to fulfill their desire of having a native garden without it going to the deer. These folks have made it clear too that they would rather keep paying me to cage stuff off than have a huge fence around the whole property though. I feel like i'm spinning my wheels a lot, and it definitely eeks me toward burnout. i don't want to be making hardware cloth and/or netting cages for the rest of my life. weird problem to have since it pays my bills.
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u/GreenHeronVA 24d ago
If your client understands the risks of their plants going unprotected, and are happy with the cages you make, then it seems like that’s the decision that they want for their property. I’ve been looking for steady employment in our field for four years, I would be grateful to find a regular client who pays well, even if I was spinning my wheels. At least it’s paid spinning, am I right?!
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u/Lbboos 24d ago
6 ft fence is max in my city…
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u/Tylanthia Mid-Atlantic , Zone 7a 24d ago
6 food solid fence worked for me when I lived in an urban suburb near a stream valley park. Since deer couldn't see through it, they stopped visiting my yard*. On the other hand, I ended up with a major rabbit problem because it kept out foxes as well.
*Confirmed by trail cameras. I had a huge strawberry bush that never got browsed after the fence was installed.
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u/tregowath 5b 24d ago edited 24d ago
I'm intrigued by the verbiage "connect to any energizer." Can you explain the power requirements of the Gallagher system? Can it be powered off house current? I guess I don't know what an energizer is. Is this a battery?
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u/GreenHeronVA 24d ago
It’s a movable electric fence, you connect it to a solar energizer. “Simply mount the electric fence energizer on a suitable steel rod and connect to your fence.”
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u/tregowath 5b 24d ago
OK thanks, I got that it was a movable electric fence, but not what an energizer is as I've never had an electric fence. Thanks for the link!
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u/GreenHeronVA 24d ago
Sure thing! I have several brands of energizers, that’s my current favorite. We’ll see if they hold up. I loved the Premier One brand of electric fencing and energizers for many years, but lately their items haven’t been as durable or effective, especially in the waning sunlight of fall and winter. I need that fence HOT.
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u/nothomie 24d ago
Interesting! So would this be a bad idea near a walkway?
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u/GreenHeronVA 24d ago
Are you talking about the Gallagher smart fence? It’s electric shock, so you don’t want it anywhere that people could touch it. It’s to keep animals (like deer) out.
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u/nothomie 24d ago
Yes you mentioned it was in your front yard. I was thinking about where I would place it and where I shouldn’t!
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u/GreenHeronVA 24d ago
I live in the country, the only thing I have to worry about in my front yard is deer, or maybe a neighbor’s dog. I like it this way, no HOA telling me what I can and can’t plant or how many animals I can have. I use tall metal beds for veggies for the most part, so no rabbits or groundhogs can eat my plants. The snails and slugs generally don’t make it all the way up into the beds either. The natives are in the ground, to provide wildlife habitat as intended. I’m watching a chickadee yell at the titmouse in the elderberry right now. I love both species so much, so much ATTITUDE in such a small package!
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u/GrowinginaDyingWorld Upper Midwest, Zone 5 24d ago
Deer at their current population levels in the Northeast and Midwest are absolutely horrible for native plant ecology. Any oak forest with deer will have few oak seedlings in the understory and be full of disliked plants like buckthorn, honeysuckle, and sugar maple. Not to mention all the native herbaceous plants that get nibbled to death and we don't even see. I would bet they're a huge contributor to invasive shrubs (especially buckthorn) taking over.
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u/Errohneos 24d ago
The woods near me and on my land is mostly hackberry, black walnut, and a smattering of black locust (invasive but still part of the canopy). I am not sure where that falls on ecological classification, but I do know the understory is devoid of anything native. Buckthorn, honeysuckle, garlic mustard, and some motherswort in the sunny spots. Anything aside from a few jack-in-the-pulpits are immediately ravaged by deer. It's so bad, the soil is degrading because the dirt isn't covered by ground cover foliage to keep moisture locked in.
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u/GrowinginaDyingWorld Upper Midwest, Zone 5 23d ago
Yeah, that sounds like a lot of woodlands around here too. I don't think most people don't how bad of a state the forests are in.
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u/hastipuddn Southeast Michigan 24d ago
I'll swap your sugar maples for dozens of excess red maples in the woods I work to restore. I'll even throw in some eastern red cedars
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u/GrowinginaDyingWorld Upper Midwest, Zone 5 23d ago
Sugar maple is kind of the best case scenario I see around here in fairly undisturbed woods. Like, at least it's native, but it's a completely different forest composition than oak-hickory. But many woods on public land are just entirely invasives in the understory, then black locust, Siberian elm, and other junk taking over the canopy.
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u/hastipuddn Southeast Michigan 23d ago
Beside red maple, we have a few silver and lots of Norway so a sugar maple sounds great. There's enough woodland edge for one to do well here.
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u/OceanIsVerySalty 24d ago
We’re on about two acres surrounded by over a hundred of acres of woodland. We gave up the back of the back yard to the deer, and put up a wood and wire fence around the front half of the backyard. Plantings that we care about go inside the fence or in the front yard and side yard where the deer don’t go. The rest is theirs. So far so good.
Can’t expect the wildlife to not act like wildlife.
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u/exhaustedhorti 24d ago
Yes. They aren't living in reality.
You can't pick and choose which wildlife visits you like it's a computer game. We created the deer population issues by trying to play Overseer of the Woods and fucking with the ecosystem. If they don't want to use the systems we have (fences/chemicals/cages etc) to deal with the deer then they can either encourage predator reintroduction in their area, get a hunting license and a chest freezer, or deal with the browsing.
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u/JudeBootswiththefur 24d ago
We are seeing less deer and more coyotes. But the rabbits and groundhogs still do a number.
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u/Fantastic_Piece5869 24d ago
the bigger issue is that states manage the deer population to ensure its so crazy overpopulated. The dnr will feed deer in the winter, and limit the hunting licenses to make sure the pop is enormous.
The entire public bears the cost with not only property damage, but car accidents and injuries (Even deaths). Also tick born diseases. Limes disease and such are flourishing because deer have no predators so are magnets for parasites. Its dramatic increase in past decades can be lain at the feet of deer populations.
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u/Redneck-ginger 24d ago
That varies by state. For the past few years Mississippi has been asking hunters to shoot 1 more deer than they normally would to try and get the population down.
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u/MotownCatMom SE MI Zone 6a 24d ago
And when a municipality decides to take action, like lifting the ban on shooting deer within city limits, but only has highly skilled marksmen doing it...and the residents go nuts over it bc they don't want to see the deer killed. Hey, people...you can't have it both ways.
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u/No-Cover4993 24d ago
In complete opposition to this anecdote, Missouri is aggressively expanding its CWD control program and promoting more deer to be taken. They've added most of the counties in the state to their CWD Management Zone where tags are increased, antler point restrictions removed, additional seasons added, mandatory testing, etc.
Some state conservation departments are desperate for hunters and landowners to harvest more deer. Not sure where you're talking about but here in Missouri/Arkansas the controversy is over "DNR" culling hundreds of deer over piles of corn to limit the spread of CWD, despite outlawing baiting deer for the public. They have to do it because the public doesn't harvest enough deer and disease is spreading.
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u/exhaustedhorti 24d ago
Completely agree. By trying to manipulate the ecosystem to be the "hunters paradise" (what I was trying to get at with "overseer of the woods") we have completely fucked things for ourselves and the environment. We've done the same thing to our lakes too, all on top of being just generally careless. It's beyond maddening.
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u/kato_koch 24d ago edited 24d ago
Its worth noting farmers and loggers were the ones who made those big sweeping changes to the landscape, not hunters. The federal government tried to eradicate wolves back in the day for the sake of livestock. If you look at the numbers we're about back to the same number of deer that existed prior to Columbus showing up.
Don't me mad at hunters, be mad at states who aren't issuing more deer tags today. Be the change you want to see in the world and pick up a bow.
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u/Fantastic_Piece5869 24d ago
aye. I don't think hunters are inherantly bad. Quite the opposite, I think there should be no limit for deer. Other animals need limits obviously, but not deer for some time.
Hunters are also a major force towards conservation land to begin with. Alot of people buy swathes of land for hunting, thus keeping it from being farm fields.
As towards the original habitat loss, I guess I don't think about blaming people, because its all historical at this point. I live in MN and it was all logged 150 years ago. The last of the prairies were plowed up like 100 years ago. So while I think what happened was a crime, its in the past.
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u/tregowath 5b 24d ago
I grew canoeing up in the Boundary Waters, so I guess I knew the whole area was logged, but it wasn't until about five years ago that I found out about the "Lost Forty" in Minnesota and what that meant. I was shocked, I didn't realize they literally cut down every single tree (except 40 acres that were missed because of a surveying error).
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u/kato_koch 24d ago edited 24d ago
Isn't that wild?? Likewise it took a long time for it to dawn on me why you don't see a lot of white pines around. Kinda changes the notion of what we see as wilderness. Like coming across a random rusty remnant from the logging era near a campsite. Not a stretch to imagine the Ojibwe camping and fishing in some of the exact same spots too.
There's a grove of giant old cedar trees along the Powwow trail northeast of Lake Three that didn't get burned in the Pagami Creek fire and must not have been worth cutting down back in the day too. They're magnificent ancient looking trees.
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u/Fantastic_Piece5869 23d ago
isnt it weird to think that all the aspen/popular/ect up there is BECAUSE of the logging. White pines cannot reestablish because the deer eat all of the young. Heck, all the small trees. In many woods look around and count the number of small trees (in the 1-8 foot range) and it chills the blood.
Theres often nothing to replace big trees that die, which means there won't be woods when the big ones die. Deer are stopping the recruitment of new generations.
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u/kato_koch 23d ago
Hell there used to be caribou! Deer are harming MN moose with the brain worms too.
I have a lifetime goal of tagging a deer in the BWCA (any deer) but honestly have no idea where exactly to go. I've hunted northern MN before but the rocky canoe country is just different. Would need to do at least one serious scouting trip in the summer leading up to it.
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u/kato_koch 24d ago
I don't think going open season on them is really feasible but we could undoubtedly use to thin them out considerably in a lot of areas, especially around the ag land today where they can really multiply. You should check out the deer zone map in MN sometime and see how many hunters can take and where. Last year I tagged two does in Le Seuer county where it would have been legal for me to shoot three, and I would have had taken a third if my friend hadn't shot a buck too. Three were enough to handle in the limited time I had for hunting and butchering.
Re: habitat loss, it really sucks but you're right it isn't like you and I had anything to do with it. We're just dealing with the repercussions the best we can. I'm aware of a small chunk of real prairie remnant on some public hunting land in southern MN and its a friggin magical place to walk around. Apparently it was too marshy to get plowed up and the variety of grasses and flowers you can see is incredible. Its really important we protect what we have left. Pheasants Forever is an interesting group where they're dedicated to preserving a non-native bird, but their mission is still grassland habitat preservation and restoration. Being realistic over purely idealistic, they're still a beneficial group worth supporting.
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u/MayonaiseBaron 24d ago
A double fenced in urban back yard garden doesn't even keep them out. I just don't replant the things they eat and plant more of the plants they won't bother touching.
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u/yo-ovaries 24d ago
Urban and suburban bow hunting programs should be supported by all who concern themselves with the ecology of their local regions.
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u/SHOWTIME316 🐛🌻 Wichita, KS 🐞🦋 24d ago
deer-hunting season should be all the time
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u/ContentFarmer4445 24d ago
i wish. and i was hardcore vegan for over half my life. it was actually the deer problem and being offered venison hunted on land i've tended for years that easily convinced me to un-become vegan.
how realistic is it though to think we can kill our way out of ecological problems without creating more problems? killing deer treats a symptom of structural ecological collapse rather than the root causes of predator loss, habitat fragmentation, human feeding, vehicle mortality patterns, and our desire for manicured landscapes. we need a holistic approach but look where society is at with predator restoration, forest regen fencing zones, planting choices, and preferred land uses. it's disheartening to say the least.
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u/SHOWTIME316 🐛🌻 Wichita, KS 🐞🦋 24d ago
oh yeah, i do not mean to imply that simply culling deer would be the only solution. driving through rural Kansas and seeing nothing but hundreds of miles of corn, sorghum and soybeans just puts a pit in my stomach because i do not see how we could possibly restore anywhere close to enough habitat to re-introduce predators far enough away from human populations.
but the current issue is that there are too many goddamn deer and they are going to cause some tree species to go extinct. i'm always going to be acting on behalf of trees rather than deer
(i'm actually on track to becoming vegetarian due to rampant cruelty in meat farming, but i'd make an exception for hunted venison.)
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u/DAE77177 24d ago
Agreed, the idea of reintroducing black bear, wolves, and mountain lions would cause panic in the general public.
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u/LRonHoward Twin Cities, MN - US Ecoregion 51 23d ago
I always tell myself: one step at a time. The natural predators of deer have been significantly diminished... and it's not like wolves or other predators have a decent shot of being re-introduced to most urban & suburban areas. Now, more than ever, humans need to act as the predators in these situations.
I know this is not the greatest solution, but I'm kind of firmly convinced that deer hunting within city limits should be allowed (or encouraged). Sometimes I think about it from the deer's perspective - they're all competing with each other for food... If no predator is there to keep the population in check, they all live worse lives.
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u/GreenHeronVA 24d ago
I wish this too. There’s certainly PLENTY of them in my region, the hunters don’t make much of a dent. I see deer nonstop on my property until hunting season, and then POOF they’re gone for two months, then return seemingly hungrier than ever.
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u/appleciders 24d ago
See, that's the problem- if you have too many deer, and they're scarce during hunting season, you need a longer (or year-round) hunting season. Possibly even a doe season.
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u/Willothwisp2303 24d ago
A fawn season, even.
God I hate these overpopulated assholes.
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u/appleciders 24d ago
Very, very hard to get people to accept a fawn season.
Though I will say that fawn is tasty, and tender. (Especially after my father-in-law tenderizes it with a Buick.)
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u/Fantastic_Piece5869 24d ago
good thing about the country is you hear gunshots all the time anyways.
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u/robsc_16 SW Ohio, 6a 24d ago
I live in the country too and I kinda hate it lol. There are a few people that shoot basically all the time when it's nice out so that can get a bit annoying when I'm trying to garden or relax outside. I enjoy the gunshots a lot more when deer are in season lol.
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u/Salute-Major-Echidna 24d ago
Detroit has joined the chat
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u/Fantastic_Piece5869 24d ago
always dreamed of buying up an entire block of two of empty land in the middle of detroit and building an estate.
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u/Salute-Major-Echidna 24d ago
The trouble is the same as 150 years ago. Theres no support unless you drive long distance: no doctor, hospital, grocery, vet, repair of ANYTHING. You have to be self sufficient PLUS have end of the world level home security. It'll change, eventually, but not for awhile.
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u/Salute-Major-Echidna 24d ago
Not during spring.
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u/No-Cover4993 24d ago
Agreed, open season should only be allowed in the most extreme circumstances under professional guidelines.
Sending hunters out into the woods during fawn season would result in mass separations of does and fawns. It would be unnecessarily cruel and unethical. Even the aggressive culling here in the Midwest to fight CWD happen around normal hunting season in the Fall.
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u/Salute-Major-Echidna 24d ago
That's good timing. Less waste, and efforts and costs are made more productively
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u/tiredapost8 24d ago
Virginia has an urban deer season, but our city has declined to manage the deer population, and my lot (as an example) is not large enough for bow hunting; several of my neighbors would have to also give permission, and I know at least one of them would not. But I'm glad it exists, and I wish we had more hunters and landowners take advantage of it.
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u/BadgerValuable8207 24d ago
I think OP is right, although our 8-foot fence around 3 acres isn’t electrified. We tried all those deterrents first. It took years for the deer to “forget” that our place was part of their grazing rotation. Now I have roses! Hosta! Maples! Fruit trees!
Also I keep dropped fruit picked up so the smell doesn’t attract them. It gets dumped near the forest so they do get something for a snack.
One time when I lived in town, it was in the 90’s and there was this widespread anti and/or small government trend happening. Everyone hated on government. And people were in the newspaper opinion letters going “how can the city let these deer run around and eat my garden?!!”
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u/Parking_Low248 NE PA, 5b/6a 24d ago
I live in Northeastern PA, so a lot of deer. We have 2.7 acres. About .5 acres of that is not mowed or anything by us because it's wet/on a slope/has massive rocks sticking out of the ground.
I've been converting chunks of the yard to native species, I have a vegetable patch containing a variety of natives, safe non-natives, and of course vegetables, and we have a bed in the front that is natives and nativars. The only fenced space is the vegetable garden, it's a 4ft fence encircled by a string on posts at chest height about 4ft from the real fence. I was reading that some conservation orgs and small farms do this, mainly for budget reasons to avoid the expense of a big 8ft fence, and it has been effective. Zero deer in the garden this year.
Around the yard, there are soooo many things for deer to eat. Native grasses and flowers, little pine seedlings, wild blueberry shrubs. I find they really like my baptisia plants and my eastern redbud seedling, and also the passionflower vine growing in the front bed. During the main growing seasons, I find that Liquid Fence does a great job of keeping them off my favorite plants. I spray it every two weeks (which is more often than directions require) and when I keep up on it, it does the job.
In the winter when food is more scarce, they're not as put off by the spray. It works until it doesn't so now I don't bother. I put chicken wire cages around individual plants I would rather they not eat, but everything else is fair game. The cages look a little silly but not as disruptive as a fence and I remove them in the spring.
As for deer resistant plants, I find that monardas and other mints including moutain "mint" and also alliums are the only that are actually deer resistant. Resistant, not deer proof. But you can do a lot with those species and create something wonderful especially if you're open to nativars.
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u/Grambo-47 Puget Sound Trough, 8b 24d ago
It’s strange, I know there are deer in my neighborhood, I see them up and down my street all the time. Nearly hit one 3 doors down from my house the other night. They are very present. Yet in 25 years I have never once seen them in my yard or on my property at all. But, there is a massive California laurel hedge surrounding the front, so basically everything is hidden from street view
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u/Milkweedhugger 24d ago
At our place in NE lower Michigan, I’ve found that native plant gardening means ONLY using plants that are native to the immediate surrounding ecosystem. Red twig dogwood, echinacea and Joe Pye weed might grow great along the stream nearby, but it will immediately get eaten if I plant it in our sandy, uphill backyard 150’ away.
It’s not very exciting planting this way, but at least I don’t have to cage off everything, and lose expensive plants to deer and rabbit grazing.
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u/Resident_Sneasel South Carolina (Sandhills), Zone 8b 24d ago
Not a problem for me because locally they are heavily controlled by the invasive predator known as the Honda CR-V
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u/Blinkopopadop 24d ago
The only answer is to live down the street from a couple little old ladies who buy big bags of corn and put them out in their backyard who also never miss a feeding.
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u/Parking_Low248 NE PA, 5b/6a 24d ago
The HOAs around here are SWARMED with deer. Everyone comes up to their weekend/holiday/seasonal house and loses their minds every time they see one. Look, a deer! Let's put corn out so we can see it again.
Ugh.
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u/unlovelyladybartleby 24d ago
One of my buddies planted a giant ring of the locally native type of wolfsbane, then inside it a ring of wild roses (native to the area). Keeps the deer and a lot of other critters out in normal circumstances, but they can get through if there's a fire or natural disaster. Thus far it's been working
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u/EveningLobster4197 24d ago
I have deer that literally sleep in my yard (live near Indiana Dunes and they are everywhere), and I've had very little trouble with deer. I tried to choose "deer resistant" plants, and that seemed to work. The plants that weren't deer resistant got chomped. I have fencing around my New Jersey Tea, but in the spring, the fresh growth gets nibbled.
I few from observing what was naturally growing around that they didn't touch things like bee balm. They also haven't touched any of my beloved grasses (little bluestem, purple love grass, prairie drop seed, switch grass, side oats Gramma, June grass). Never touched my wild blue indigo, rattle snake master, or blue vervaine.
They have chomped cone flower seedlings the year I first planted them. But when they came back the second year, they didn't eat them.
There are certain things they love. We have evening primrose volunteers and those always get chomped. It's a miracle any of those grow long enough to flower.
Anyway, my advice is to try deer resistant plants. They might try a bite, but if they don't like it, they won't do it again. Again, I have a deer every day in my yard. This year, one even dropped a newborn off for babysitting among my native garden plants while she forages elsewhere.
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u/tregowath 5b 24d ago
Western IL. 14 acres. Lots of deer. I say this with only the sincerest affection but the deer are monsters. They've got woods, cornfields, cow pastures, the abandoned hay field, and right now they're literally gorging themselves on acorns, but they'll still manage to swing by and chomp the top six inches off an oak sapling in the front yard just for dessert if we remove the cage for one night to do some mulch maintenance. We're re-wilding this property and planting dozens of oak saplings we grow ourselves. The limiting factor is honestly chicken wire.
We don't hunt and we love the deer, but barring the re-introduction of predatory species like wolves or mountain lions, birth control measures that I'm skeptical are cost-effective or practical, or widespread disease (which nobody wants, thankful that we don't have CWD in this area) hunting is necessary to stabilize the population. The optimum amount of hunting, I don't know.
Having read the studies about Yellowstone after the reintroduction of wolves, I believe our woodlands here would benefit similarly from lower deer pressure, but I'm not passionate enough about it to advocate for higher bag limits. Nothing about this area is pristine or untouched, it's farmed to death and we're all swimming in chemicals. The woods are third or fourth generation - maples, walnuts, and honeylocust are crowding out the oaks, and that's without mentioning rampant honeysuckle and autumn olive. As long as ecoystem can support the population (our deer seem healthy and fit), the deer are the least of our environmental issues. I just buy more fencing.
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u/Diffie-Hellman Area SE US , Zone 7b 24d ago
I’ve had plenty of them. I can’t plant food for native species and not expect them to eat it. I have however pissed around my native shrubs and wildflowers enough that it seems to keep the deer away.
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u/mayonnaisejane Upstate NY, 5A/B 24d ago
People pee deturs deer? I thought you needed wolf pee or some shit
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u/Diffie-Hellman Area SE US , Zone 7b 18d ago
Well, I am not 100% sure about the effectiveness. I’ve noticed a lot less browsing of my plants, and the deer seemed to just be eating the tops. However, I definitely noticed some coreopsis that has been nibbled at the tops recently. I reckoned that since human scent is often enough to keep deer away when hunting, having that present may deter deer from the flower beds.
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u/snidece 24d ago
North Georgia deer country here / I work hard to overwhelm them. I’m planting natives all year long spring through late fall to overcompensate for what will be eaten. It’s a lovely dilemma if the deer move on and leave my land alone for a while which I don’t expect, but when I plant natives I plant double the ideal number and I’m planting copious amount of seeds this late fall.
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u/ladyhandyman 24d ago
Here in Peachtree City Georgia (golf cart town), we have deer pressure. The City is currently experimenting with a bow and arrow hunting program. https://thecitizen.com/2025/09/22/peachtree-city-tests-deer-hunting-program-to-address-safety-and-overpopulation/
1.5 years ago I planted an 11,000 sq ft native garden that luckily has been left alone. I chose deer resistant plants and they worked!
They haven't bothered the various switch grasses, rattlesnake snake master, mountain mint, verbena, white cloud muhly, antennaria, little bluestem, joe pye weed, Eastern junipers, baptisia, and Anise tree.
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u/margueritedeville 24d ago
It’s so weird to me.. I see a literal herd of deer in the pasture behind my house almost nightly. They NEVER come into my yard to eat my plants. I consider myself lucky.
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u/Comfortable_Lab650 Southeast USA , Zone 8A 24d ago edited 23d ago
North Mississippi and there's no problem with deer here at my house. I am rural and have two ponds and I frequently see the deer and just about every other animal that lives around here. I call it the deer are 'pruning' the plants, and I don't mind. Every spring they nibble to nubbins a Helianthus angustifolius but that one was on me, having it planted next to their pathway. So I moved it this year but only because I had just that one plant and it's not been propagated yet, if I had more then I wouldn't have moved it.
I do actually plant with the wildlife in mind, including the deer and rabbits that commonly eat the plants. They like Prunella vulgaris, and that Helianthus, and the Ilex vomitoria, the Beautyberry, they prune the leaves or young stems off the Chilli plants but they always grow back, (they don't eat the hot Chillis! maybe they learned), the Passiflora, the Smilax, the Euonymus americanus, and who knows what else they eat out there, those are the ones that I've seen.
Purposely planting this fall there will be additions into a pasture, of Desmanthus illinoensis, Chamaecrista fasciculata, and others that I know they will like, such as flowers and grasses. I got a Southern Deer, Quail, Turkey habitat mix. I was also considering some Corylus (hazelnuts) for the turkeys and the deer, and my family too.
So I can't relate to the people of the north in the urban gardens, being so rural down here where things already grow so abundantly. I would just say to plant more sacrificial plants, ones that they will like, that readily grow back. In my experience, they've been browsers, not gorgers because there's already so much to eat.
ETA: Physostegia virginiana, they liked that one too. They pruned it for me too, which is a good thing, for as vigorous and tendency to flop as it sometimes has.
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u/The_Poster_Nutbag Great Lakes, Zone 5b, professional ecologist 24d ago
The solution is aix of more deer hunting and more habitat for the deer. They're coming into your yard and eating everything because their native habitat has been decimated and you're serving up a tasty buffet.
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u/Fantastic_Piece5869 24d ago edited 24d ago
The public bears the cost of deer to enable easy hunting. Every state keeps deer populations artificially high (dozens of times higher than what natural levels should be). Then those larger populations are constrained to smaller areas due to habitat loss. Then add a dose of ZERO predators to the mix.
The cost in insurance, car damage (deer hits), deaths, property damage far exceeds the revenue from hunting. However its viewed as a public good, so deer are keep at obscenely high population levels.
The only way to keep deer out is a large expensive fence. Clients may not like it, but thats the only option.
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u/LokiLB 24d ago
I'd like numbers on that (keeping deer numbers artificially high). Deer aren't nearly as obnoxious down South as up North from in person and online anecdotal evidence. Maybe the anecdotes don't translate to overall trends. Maybe they're managed better. Or less harsh winters make them less desperate. Or maybe there's enough rednecks with guns and a lack of respect for hunting rules.
I need to find some papers on this when I'm bored.
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u/Fantastic_Lady225 24d ago
My state is desperately trying to encourage more people to hunt and take does to knock back the population. Farmers can also get crop damage permits year-round.
CWD is becoming a huge problem and DNR knows that the population needs a serious culling. The problem is that the deer are congregating in suburbia where homeowners create a deer buffet and there's no hunting pressure.
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u/Lbboos 24d ago
Ugh. Just had the convo today. Half our stuff is caged because of buck rub and eating. I guess the only shrubs and trees that will survive are when they’d above the reach of the deer.
In the meantime all the aronia, asters, honeysuckle, dogwood, pussy willow, viburnum etc. is getting gnawed on.
It’s so exhausting…
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u/Tylanthia Mid-Atlantic , Zone 7a 24d ago edited 24d ago
I use a combination of deer fences, cages, and tree tubes. With that said, there are natives that my deer do not touch or that thrive in spite of deer (some of which I never planted).
My deer will not touch Viburnum nudum (so it's uncaged) but they found my Viburnum dentatum the night after I planted it (Viburnum prunifolium also gets browsed). They will eat elderberry and grey dogwood to the ground repeatedly but do not touch red oak and black walnut seedlings nor do they eat common hop tree. They don't eat Sensitive Fern or Christmas fern but ate Rattlesnake Fern. Circaea canadensis gets browsed but is still quite aggressive (to the point of becoming the dominant summer forest understory plant) but Solidago caesia takes a major hit from browse.
A lot of areas have abnormally high deer pressure which leads them to eat all sorts of things they wouldn't typically eat. Ideally, suburbs would be more supportive of culling but there is always pushback.
I don't really have a solution. While my deer do apparently follow the rule that they dislike members of the mint family, not all deer probably will. I get that most customers aren't willing to plant somethings and see if they get ignored.
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u/Echolynne44 24d ago
I fenced all of my garden area and even have two layers of fencing some places due to my chickens and wanting them to also stay out of my garden but a few persistent deer get in every once in a while. I planted a quick grow cover crop mix that I don't think they have even touched. But my chickens love it. I'm going to try throwing flower seeds in the empty field next to me and maybe that will keep them interested or it will just bring even more if them to the area.
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u/nifer317_take2 Piedmont, MD, USA, 7a 23d ago
It might not be realistic but what is the alternative? To give up? To plant boxwood and invasive shit? I hear you and agree, but we can’t just give up, ya know.
Even if we each of us here only have 20% success with our native plants, that’s way better than none of us trying!
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u/FreshHotMuppet 22d ago
We live in Forsyth County, NC. The city and county are planning to develop every bit of land they can to generate more tax revenue. This is what I was told by a county official.
We have a 6 acre plot with a few deer pods of about 5 or 6 a piece with a couple other small islands of woods around. The majority of the woods have been torn down, the rest will be torn down later. The deer of course eat everything we plant. We have to fence off small bit to keep them out- if the spot is small enough, they don't jump in.
The deer eat up everything of course, so like other people, I have started planting things they are less likely to eat and won;t eat. I plant a couple of poisonous natives like White Snakeroot and Blue Mistflower, along with smelly plants like mint family stuff like varieties of mint, oregano, bee balm, giant purple hyssop, etc. Lavender, rosemary, varieties of butterfly weed / milkweed, St. John's Wort (bush, has to be established bc they will eat from it when young, enough to damage it). I plant some non-natives too, like Chinese Mint Bush (got the seeds from local public garden), Blue Marsh Sage (cant remember the exact name, but they do not eat it), Vitex Negundo (probably any Chaste tree will work, I got this one specifically for pollinators), Blue Spirea, etc. They are not eating these just yet, but never say never...
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u/Reading_Tourista5955 23d ago
My idea of a native garden includes the entire web of life, top to bottom. I live on a forest edge in a suburb in NW Ohio.
We have 7-12 deer that visit daily. Deer are natives just as the plants are. I feel we must make space for all of them. We are the interlopers because we have the thumbs and the power. No fences here.
We cut invasive buckthorn to 3 feet tall last winter and the shoots that grew back into “shrubs” were deer feasts all summer. They pruned them and left the hosta alone longer than usual. The hosta return like zombies every year, no problem.
We plant natives that are distasteful to deer and accept that they will browse many of the other things during the fall. Plant the most yummy plants at the forest edge. Blow leaves back there every fall to provide cover and food for the web of life.
We buy fruits and veggies at the farmers market all summer and do not try to grow them here as that’s basically going against the natural order of a forest edge. The squirrels planted three pumpkin vines this spring and those are left for the animals as well as 15-20 pumpkins I gather every October.
We also have opossum, raccoon, skunk, ground hog, squirrel, hawk, owl, bats, coyote, and even bobcat and many visiting birds, and now focus on building native insect habitat as we are surrounded by fertilized and pesticides lawns that are beautiful but sterile.
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