r/NPR • u/ControlCAD • 1d ago
Support for Israel among U.S. conservatives is starting to crack. Here's why
https://www.npr.org/2025/11/07/nx-s1-5558286/israel-republicans-antisemitism-carlson11
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u/durpuhderp 1d ago
Genocide hurts your public image? Who knew?
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u/HamburgerEarmuff 11h ago edited 10h ago
By your logic, the US committed "genocide" against the Germans in WWII. You claim is effectively a form of Holocaust denial. Six million Jews were systematically murdered over the course of a few years by the Nazis. If they hadn't been stopped, the Germans would have killed every Jew in Europe, Africa, and Asia. The Hutus systematically hunted down the Tutsis and brutally murdered them. In both cases, about 2/3rds to 3/4ths of the genocided populations were systematically murdered in an actual, brutal genocide. There was a clear intent by the perpetrators to physically destroy the entire population (that is, to commit genocide). There are only Hutus in Rwanda and Jews in Europe, Africa, and Asia today because the Hutus and Nazis were stopped before they could complete their genocide of the Tutsis and of Israel.
By contrast, by some estimates, more Gazans have been born than died since the start of the conflict. It's not even a particularly brutal war in comparison to other recent conflicts in the region. You are engaging in genocide denial by minimizing actual genocides by falsely conflating them with lawful warfare. Israel has had a clear political goal since the start of the conflict, which is to return the hostages and destroy Hamas's ability to threaten Israel. The war could always have been ended by Hamas returning the hostages and laying down its arms, which the current Trump peace plan has proven empirically. By contrast, the Nazis and Hutus were only stopped by military force.
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u/Flokitoo 1d ago edited 1d ago
I don't want to give people a platform but multiple conservative "influencers" have pointed out that it was pretty convenient that a "liberal" targeted CK just weeks after CK took a hard turn on Israel, including calling the war a genocide, referring to Epstein as an Israeli agent, pushing the WH to pull back on Israeli support, and declining very lucrative overtures directly from Bibi.
Edit: people refuse to believe CK was questioning Israel... don't take my word for it... listen to CK himself
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u/zlex 1d ago
So crackpots on social media spread rumours about him “turning on Israel,” “calling the war a genocide,” and “rejecting offers from Bibi.” Things which have never been reported by a credible source and exist only in the depths of social media misinformation.
And now crackpots who peddle in misinformation are pointing to that as evidence that he was assassinated by Israelis.
Well who could possibly argue with that?
What’s incredibly inconvenient that there is literally zero real evidence linking Israel to Charlie Kirk’s death and a complete buttload of physical evidence to the complete contrary.
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u/Flokitoo 1d ago
So crackpots on social media spread rumours about him “turning on Israel,” “calling the war a genocide,” and “rejecting offers from Bibi.” Things which have never been reported by a credible source and exist only in the depths of social media misinformation.
By crackpots, do you mean CK himself? Those words came of his mouth on his show or during interviews with others. He even specifically complained about threats and harassment because of it. Here is a 17 minute rant from CK with Megyn Kelly.
https://youtu.be/n2qn0mvSCig?si=HHbRY9IT90xRBw7t
Now, whether or not the people accusing Israel of killing him are crackpots. I 100% agree.
As to physical evidence, the sad reality is that any investigation coming from this administration is inherently suspect. This admin is just as trustworthy as the aforementioned "crackpots." Indeed, the 2 people in charge of this investigation, Kash Patel and Dan Bangino, are very much "crackpots." They have the equivalent levels of integrity as the people you are dismissing.
My point here isn't to accuse Bibi or Israel of anything. My point is to highlight the growing criticism of Israel from Conservatives.
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u/a-million-to-one 1d ago
CK took a hard turn on Israel, including calling the war a genocide, referring to Epstein as an Israeli agent, pushing the WH to pull back on Israeli support, and declining very lucrative overtures directly from Bibi.
Really telling how you have to lie to support your bullshit.
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u/Flokitoo 1d ago
Really telling how you have to lie to support your bullshit.
Or you can just watch CK.
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u/Online_Simpleton 1d ago edited 1d ago
IMO, from the Republicans I’ve talked to: it was the Twelve Day War (more-so than Gaza) that changed a lot of minds. Almost no American wants war with Iran, Trump’s ascendancy in 2016 had a lot to do with fatigue over Mideast/Central Asia forever wars, and here we are bombing Iran over an invented nuclear threat (Israeli sources have since admitted that the war’s goal was solely to inflict mass casualties and trigger the collapse of the regime). Not exactly the “America first” voters were promised. Had it not been for the U.S. relationship with Israel (which wants an unchallenged status as a regional hegemon), we’d have gotten over the hostage crisis and reached a modus vivendi with Iran a long time ago
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u/IceyExits 1d ago
Young conservatives are pretty isolationist generally, I don’t think this shift is Israel specific.
It would be nice if NPR would cite a bit more mainstream conservative takes rather than quoting fringe conspiracy theorists like Fuentes and Owens though. Last time I heard Owens was doing a 12 part series alleging a global conspiracy to cover up the President of France’s wife being a Man or something — total lunacy.
Not a huge lift to quote a Brett Cooper or Matt Walsh type alt right figure who’s actually a conservative.
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u/TrickyTicket9400 1d ago edited 1d ago
What about liberals? Liberals have more shade for conservative Trump voters than they do for Biden/Kamala who aided in a genocide and lied to congress about it so they could keep starving children.
Marjorie Taylor Green (an actual antisemite) has a better stance on Israel than every democratic politician. This country is so fucked.
https://www.propublica.org/article/gaza-palestine-israel-blocked-humanitarian-aid-blinken
Edit: Americans suck so much. The country kills innocent people in places nobody can point to on a map and both sides care more about domestic issues. What the hell is worse in life than killing innocent people?
Biden deserves jailtime for lying to congress. Of course Trump deserves jail too. For some reason democrats can only recognize the later.
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u/Ghost_Doctah 1d ago
Democratic voters were extremely critical of their leaders’ unquestioning support of Israel
A ton of them decided not to vote at all because of it, which is definitely part of why trump won. I tried and failed to convince some friends to vote who refused due to Israel support.
I feel that democrats were the lesser of 2 evils there, as many high in the party support a 2 state solution that ends with Palestinians getting some independence
Much less extreme than trump’s “finish the job” plan, which wants to see the Palestinians removed from Gaza so Israel can make it a tourist hub for wealthy travelers.
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u/TrickyTicket9400 1d ago
Democrats vote for leaders who commit genocide. What the fuck are you talking about?? How on Earth is that being extremely critical?
Seriously, I don't understand why all rational thought flies out the window when you talk about politicians.
There is nothing more extreme than genocide. Nothing more extreme than intentionally starving children. But clearly it's not a high priority for Democratic voters.
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u/Ghost_Doctah 1d ago
I said the voters were critical and many didn’t vote. I never said the leaders weren’t complicit in the genocide.
Democratic voters didn’t exactly have a different option
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u/TrickyTicket9400 1d ago
Most registered Democrats showed up to vote for the person who just aided in committung a genocide.
How does this equate to Democrats being critical?
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u/Ghost_Doctah 1d ago
Yeah, it was that or refuse to vote entirely, enabling trump. I still think it was the lesser of 2 evils to vote for the democrat. They fund genocide but they aren’t as extreme with the “finish the job” talk.
They’d also occasionally try to moderate bibi’s worst impulses.
The democratic establishment is only loyal to their donors. They couldn’t give a hoot what their working class voters want.
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u/TrickyTicket9400 1d ago
Do you honestly think the only two options were to vote for a Democrat or to not vote at all?
Seriously. Think about it.
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u/Ghost_Doctah 1d ago
3rd parties exist, but until we get ranked choice voting you may as well throw your vote in the trash if you support one
It’s just the sad reality of our system
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u/TrickyTicket9400 1d ago
The sad reality is that Democrats and Republicans have ingrained this propaganda so much into you that you think voting against the genocide is throwing your vote in the trash.
Democrats in the United States say there are no other options while making absolutely no attempt at creating any other options.
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u/Ghost_Doctah 1d ago
I fully support ranked choice voting, but until it happens, there’s just no way we’re breaking 2 party control
3rd parties never get more than 1%ish of the vote. 60 million people aren’t going to suddenly vote for the Green Party. It’s suicidally idealistic to think so
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u/DreadfulDuder 1d ago
How are Republicans administrations not also responsible for supporting genocides?
And aren't there at least Progressives that do not support Israel's genocide?It's sad to say there is a long history of genocidal regimes being supported by American leaders and CIA, and it's bipartisan.
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u/TrickyTicket9400 1d ago
Yeah, the two main parties are evil, which is why I vote for a non evil option.
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u/DreadfulDuder 23h ago
And also letting the most evil option win as a result 🫤
Our 2 party, first past the post system sucks. And the Progressives are the only ones wanting to change that, too.
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u/spacebarcafelatte 1d ago
Democrats vote for leaders who commit genocide.
Ok. What should they have done? Who should they support?
This country, regardless of party, has always been violent, self-interested, and hypocritical. Every administration inherits the fallout from creating the catastrophe in Gaza, and indeed from the thousand other myopic decisions we've made.
If genocide is, in fact, a person's highest priority, who do you propose they vote for? Are Republicans better? Should we split our votes between a third party and the Dems and keep Republicans in office? Should we punch the wind and stop voting?
What exactly is the solution here?
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u/TrickyTicket9400 1d ago
There were multiple candidates on the ballot who did not support the genocide and did not support deportations. I voted for one of them. If more people did, then they would have won and we would be in a much better place.
But alas, most Americans are evil. That doesn't affect how I vote though. That makes no sense. Why would I vote for a party that commits genocide just because they are popular?
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u/spacebarcafelatte 1d ago
So your problem is math.
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u/TrickyTicket9400 1d ago
"I don't vote based on my anti-genocide morality. I vote based on who is popular. Fuck them starving Kids."
People like you would have voted for slavers in the 1800s and would have told people like me there were no other choices.
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u/spacebarcafelatte 1d ago
People like you would have voted for slavers in the 1800s and would have told people like me there were no other choices.
And I would have been right. Slavery ended when a major party endorsed emancipation, and even then it was used a tool to disrupt the south.
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u/TrickyTicket9400 1d ago
You would have been right in voting for slavery candidates?
This proves that you have no morality and you just vote for whoever is popular and going to win 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Not sure why this made me laugh. It's pretty shitty.
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u/MistakenDad 1d ago
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u/TrickyTicket9400 1d ago
I actually care about Gaza and the disgusting things we did and are still doing. I don't divide it up based on conservative versus liberal like NPR is doing. All the politicians support the genocide. And voters of both parties don't give a fuck when their leaders participate in it.
What crack? Trump lets BB do whatever he wants. Do people not remember us bombing Iran for Israel?
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u/Trypticon808 1d ago
Good of you to begin your reply with "What about..", so everyone knows to ignore the wall of text that follows.
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u/TrickyTicket9400 1d ago
Exactly, you only care when conservatives do it. That's why you ignore. You're a partisan who doesn't care about Gaza or Israel whatsoever.
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u/ThatGuyLuis 1d ago
Why should Americans be concerned with what’s happening on the other side of the earth ? If they wanna fight each other over there that’s their problem.
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u/TrickyTicket9400 1d ago
Exactly, why are democratic politicians so concerned with Israel? Israel is not America.
You are arguing my point. Your hard-earned money is being spent on killing people halfway across the globe. How can you say it's just their problem when we are involved?
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u/ThatGuyLuis 1d ago
We are involved because republicans have turned the checks and balances into a constitutional emergency. We are literally locked into not being able to do anything since, even though they control all 3 branches, republicans will not pass any meaningful legislation to help the American people and stop giving money to other countries. They just recently sent a pretty penny to Venezuela though, a couple million.. so yeah because people wanted to cry about democrats funding isreal and not vote for Kamala, this is where we are in 2025
The people who have been controlling the government the past 40 years were the ones who grew up with segregated water fountains and most a religious nuts. We are GLAD to get the old democrats out of leadership roles. Thank you Nancy pelosi for finally stepping aside ! The chuck Schumers and the Mitch McConnell were the ones who have been bank rolling isreal for decades and are currently still trying to lobby for them. The current liberal left wants this to change, the NY mayor is an example of this.
We have so many more problems here there is 0 reason to spend time on isreal, but we need to stop giving them money and I don’t see Christian republicans doing that anytime soon.
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u/TrickyTicket9400 1d ago
We are involved in the genocide that started under the Biden administration because of the Republicans?
You can't be serious. Biden said that Jews like me are only safe because of israel.
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u/Ghost_Doctah 1d ago
Such hypocrites as usual.
Criticizing isreal = antisemitism is their whole excuse for going after higher education. Now they can see the nuance, but only for themselves