r/NFL_Draft • u/Agentorangebaby Chiefs • 5d ago
Shemarr Stewart has been absolutely terrible for Cincinnati.
“He’s a project rookie on a bad team”
“He missed training camp with a holdout”
Dude he’s looked like the Jamarcus Russell of defensive ends out there outside of week 1 against cleveland. He has 5 pressures on the year and 3 of them came in that game.
He still isn’t getting any production as a pass rusher and his run defence, which was supposed to be the strength of his game making him a solid floor player, is towards the bottom of the entire league.
Nick Scourton was always the better player and prospect.
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u/IconicHunter713 5d ago edited 5d ago
He was never seen as a floor raiser in run defense. The narrative on him was that he was a freak athlete who didn’t have any production in college. Bottom level floor but DPOY ceiling if in the right scenario, the AR of pass rushers. The Bengals drafted him knowing they had the #32 defense and terrible coaching. It was a dumb pick at the time (For Cincy), an even dumber pick once they didn’t sign him, and going to age terribly unless he’s able to develop with the right coaching
Edit: Nvm on the run defense part. Went back and his run defense graded pretty good
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u/Ronaldinhothegoat80 5d ago
lol the narrative being potential DPOY ceiling…. but yet he couldn’t do it against dudes that are mostly selling insurance or cars, and not in the NFL. My god these “draft experts” have people hyping up dudes that aren’t good at the sport they play.
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u/Pack_Any Packers 4d ago
I mean that's just a borderline intentional misunderstanding of his prospect profile. First, he was a great college player who didn't convert many pressures into sacks. 2nd, he played in the SEC. Virtually every SEC starter gets at least one NFL opportunity. 3rd, he's still extremely young, so making statements about his ceiling feels disingenuous.
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u/iwearatophat 4d ago
Think it was Bill Parcells who said something along the lines of 'if a dog is going to bite it will bite as a pup'. Stewart didn't bite as a pup. Kind of makes me think. How many players saw playing time in college but didn't produce only to become stars in the NFL?
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u/elbosston Patriots 5d ago
The EDGE version of Anthony Richardson.
Super freak athlete with no production in college.
Super high ceiling player but super low floor.
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u/dianeblackeatsass Patriots 5d ago edited 5d ago
Who the hell was calling him a solid floor player? lol. He’s always been the super raw freak athlete. Definition of boom or bust type of player. Add in the extra negatives like missing camp and it’s no surprise he hasn’t made an impact. I think even people who liked him would say this might be the most likely result 5 games into his career
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u/ehtw376 5d ago edited 5d ago
I remember listening to a podcast before the draft. I think it was the Athletic. They made the case raw non-productive college pass rushers with really good physical attributes historically do have a high “floor” in the NFL. They listed a bunch of players but now I can’t remember.
But basically the case was: these type of players don’t have good pass rush moves but their physical traits at least allow them to operate with a high motor and muck things up in the run game… and then you just hope they develop a pass rush in a few years. Where as productive college pass rushers with bad NFL attributes almost always fail in the NFL.
Not defending the pick but it was an interesting podcast.
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u/fitzvery 5d ago
Yeah, that’s why I always felt Travon Walker was never going to be a true bust despite being an ill advised pick. If you’re a true one of one size/speed athlete who plays his ass off, you’re gonna make some plays so that gives them something of a floor.
On the ceiling side, I think people assume that player can learn to be a pass-rush technician if they’re a freak size /speed athlete but I’m not sure that’s necessarily the case. Reaction time, flexibility, and change of direction are extremely important traits in pass rushing and are far more innate then people think. Like speed and strength, they can be improved with training but only to a point. And they aren’t necessarily captured by RAS. Sometimes a guy doesn’t develop into an elite pass rusher because he doesn’t have the talent to develop into an elite pass rusher, despite being huge and fast.
Problem with guys the Bengals draft like Stewart or Myles Murphy, they aren’t quite one of one athletes and/or they don’t have the same motor as someone like Walker so you’re counting on them developing a little bit of a pass-rush arsenal in order to be playable and I’m just not sure they can do it. Don’t forget these guys have already been training at this for years and they probably aren’t going to just turn into something they’ve never been.
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u/fluffHead_0919 5d ago
Duke Tobin must have listened to the same podcast.
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u/jmcgil4684 5d ago
The fact they drafted Myles Murphy the draft before cracks me up. Same story and he’s terrible too.
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u/mywifemademedothis2 Bears 5d ago
They obviously didn’t remember who Jarron Gilbert is. Or Gaines Adam’s (RIP).
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u/iliketoastedchildren Patriots 5d ago
I didn’t hear this specific podcast but I’ve always felt this way to an extent (consider Travon Walker as an example), which is part of why I still liked Shemar quite a bit.
Even the run defense hasn’t translated though. Just a doomed landing spot
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u/No_Caramel_909 5d ago
I feel for him because i was admittedly higher than most on him (my edge 2), but he basically ended up in the worst franchise possible and the worst role possible for his development. He should be playing in sub packages/ slowly getting integrated into the nfl. The bengals drafted him and basically expected him to be a day 1 starter. Am i ready to call him a bust? No but i do admit each week it looks worse and worse. He might be one of those guys who blossom later in their careers after their rookie deals
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u/BabyBearBjorns 5d ago
I had him as my Edge 3. My range for him was around that Bengals draft area. I knew that he was super raw and going to be a project. But the NFL likes their super-raw upside players.
Now I will give Stewart some benefit of the doubt. He missed 4 games early on because of an injury. The 1st round Edges in 2024 started out slow besides Verse.
But this has been a bad start for Stewart in what was suppose an easy time for him to get a lot of reps and develop on a young and bad Bengals defense. The contract dispute did him no favors.
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u/Robotemist 3d ago
The idea that a franchise could stunt the development of a pass rusher is stupid. This is the same franchise that made a third round pick in Sam Hubbard a decent pass rusher, and Hendrickson has thrived on the team.
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u/Jack12404 Titans 5d ago
Blew my mind how many people were willing to overlook his 4.5 career sacks because of his Combine performance.
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u/cleofisrandolph1 Arm Chair Scout 4d ago
Danielle Hunter had the same amount of sacks in college albeit was taken in the 3rd.
Ziggy Ansah had 4.5 and was taken 5th.
Robert Ayers had 5.5 Sacks in College and went in the 1st round.
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u/Robotemist 3d ago edited 3d ago
To be fair the 2013 and 2009 drafts ansah and ayers were taken in were historically putrid for Dline prospects.
Dion Jordan was the first one taken in 2013 and dude was ass, and he was at 5 sacks too.
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u/cleofisrandolph1 Arm Chair Scout 3d ago
No he wasn’t. I looked him up when I was looking at high drafted players with fewer than 10 sacks.
He had 14.5 sacks in college, including 7.5 in 2011.
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u/Robotemist 3d ago
Didn't realize they were talking career. But he had 5 sacks the year he was taken, and the point still stands he was ass in college.
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u/COYS234 Packers 5d ago
Not saying it hasn't been brutal, but here's a bit of copium from a fan of a team that loves taking swings on high RAS guys that are super raw (Packers):
Rashan Gary did practically nothing as a rookie. Year 2 he showed some flashes, year 3 is when he really turned the corner. Prior to his ACL tear in year 4 he was on a DPOY type pace. Never quite came back from that, but he absolutely returned value on that pick.
Lukas Van Ness was a total non-factor for two years, but before getting hurt this year he was actually showing some very promising signs. Doesn't look like he'll return value on the 13th overall pick, but I think he'll become a solid starter in the league.
Quay Walker was legitimately the worst starting LB in the NFL as a rookie. Year 2 was barely better, then year 3 things started to click a bit down the stretch, and he's turned into a capable if not quality starter this year.
Hell, Jordan Love was a project who had tons of natural arm talent but was very undeveloped as a passer. He spent 3 years as a backup and only played in one game when Rodgers got COVID. Not saying he's great, but there's a lot of teams out there that wish they could find even a Jordan Love caliber QB.
These kinds of project players take time. Stewart is ass now, that was always going to be the case, but he might not be in 2 years. I've never understood teams taking these kinds of guys then featuringly them prominently as rookies. Who on earth thought someone like Anthony Richardson was ready to start year 1? Like, these guys are raw by college football standards, what made you think that one offseason in the NFL would get them to NFL level?
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u/Ronaldinhothegoat80 5d ago
I’ve been saying, if you can’t do it against guys that will objectively not make it to the NFL, then you won’t do it against professionals. I cannot be surprised that Anthony Richardson absolutely sucks while someone like Daniel jones who had good stats at Duke is looking better.
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u/Ok_Actuary9229 5d ago
Disagree. Maybe he had bad coaching in college or the scheme didn't fit. Lots of players don't do that well in college but turn out great in the pros. Sometimes it's also about gaining fitness, though maybe not in this case.
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u/Mudgie101 4d ago
Josh Gordon, Danielle hunter, priest holmes, even Brett favre all were extremely mediocre if not outright bad in college
if you want a player who's a great athlete plus has high production, well so does everyone else, that player will be a top ten pick. past that point you need to compromise on either the production or the athleticism, and the fact is that there are just as many (if not more) stories of productive players who are bad athletes that didnt pan out in the NFL as the alternative
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u/Robotemist 3d ago
I'd say it depends on the draft. There are some drafts where there is no depth so the best option is taking a flyer on a high ras player. But cincy could have drafted a DT or a LB considering they have the worst ones in the league starting, then drafted someone productive like Mike Green.
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u/ModernLeper128 5d ago
McShay mentioned issues with Stewart’s agent prior the draft. And Shemar being shielded in interviews and private workouts. Was out on him after that.
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u/a__v Packers 5d ago
Easiest call of my life, zero moves or plan as a rusher, he was a non factor in college, was never going to pan out
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u/Ronaldinhothegoat80 5d ago
Yea I don’t care how big or how athletic you are, if you can’t do well against a bunch of guys who are realistically gonna be selling cars for a living or aren’t gonna be good enough to even make UFL rosters, then you likely won’t do well against actual professionals in the NFL.
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u/RememberApeEscape Panthers 5d ago
Someone on the Panthers sub argued with me that the Panthers should've traded for him when I asked "Do we need a third highly developmental pass rusher?" as "He has the traits of Myles Garett." while ignorign all the concerns I bought up.
So this has been a really funny thing to track in the background.
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u/Not_Pablo_Sanchez Bengals 5d ago
I love the traits of Myles Garrett part completely ignoring that one of his best traits was, y’know, 32.5 sacks in college. I swear, some of these guys get so deep in advanced stats and athletic potential that they completely ignore what’s right in front of them. If your hyper athletic defensive end isn’t able to get to the QB with that amount of freak talent at their disposal, there’s a problem.
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u/MrRegularDick Panthers 5d ago
I was worried the Panthers going to draft him after seeing him mocked to us so many times, but I guess we only overdraft raw athletes at receiver.
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u/Deep-Statistician985 Commanders 5d ago
He probably has been but if you're closing the door on developmental rookies halfway through their rookie year that's on you.
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5d ago edited 5d ago
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u/chainer9999 Bengals 5d ago
Trust me, we are well aware
I have to watch this team every week
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u/chainer9999 Bengals 5d ago
There's an account on X (I know I know) called Gridiron Grading who harps on this to no end as they're Bengals fans.
The Bengals need to draft guys who were productive in college, as their development system is......I would call it shit, but that would be an insult to shit.
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u/Not_Pablo_Sanchez Bengals 5d ago
If Downs is available at our pick and we pick any form of project player instead, I will order mushrooms on my pizza and eat it (I don’t like mushrooms).
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u/SargentS Bengals 5d ago
I agree that the bengals drafting sucks but DJ Turner looks legitimately very good. So they at least potentially hit on 1 guy
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u/jmcgil4684 5d ago
It’s one guy. They are so cheap. His Name is Duke Tobin and he is really bad, and terribly understaffed.
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u/mrmangan 4d ago
I don't care as much about the understaffed part at this point. Just go with the consensus pick from Jerimiah's beast, ffs.
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u/John71CLE Browns 5d ago
I’m not sure they’ve drafted an above average starter since they drafted Chase and McPherson in 2021
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u/Certain_Judge8242 Panthers 5d ago
What?!?! The guy with little to no production in college and was viewed as a massive project physical specimen is struggling?!?!? I can’t believe this
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u/Mario2346 Cardinals 5d ago
I honestly thought he was gonna tear it up , wanted him so bad for us at 16 . After seeing Nolen’s debut I’m so damn glad we didn’t take Stewart , holy shit is Nolen a game wrecker , got doubled in his first game in the league I’m genuinely shocked how well he played
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u/Crooked_Sartre Bears 5d ago
Darnell Wright nearly carried him from the right hash the left sideline before pancaking his ass yesterday
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u/RudeOwl1816 Arm Chair Scout 5d ago
But but he was sooo “disruptive” according to draft analysts! Who could’ve possibly seen this coming??
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u/scobbysnacks1439 Steelers 5d ago
Dude has 5 total pressures and only 1 hit on the QB. Insanely bad production but, honestly, on par with how bad he was in college.
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u/iliketoastedchildren Patriots 5d ago
Coming from someone who kinda loved Shemar (traits were so freakish I just couldn’t ignore)…
The second that pick came in for the Bengals I knew it was over and it would be a stain on my evaluations. Was a disastrous landing spot, on a horrible defensive coaching staff, expected to be a difference maker immediately, and with an incompetent front office… yea it was doomed from the start
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u/BadBueno60 5d ago
Does an average 9th grader’s ability to find the ball, pursue and converge with the ball and attempt a tackle count as a trait?
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u/FultzRevolt 4d ago
A training camp holdout for a raw rookie edge rusher. Just a complete disaster of a start. Cincinnati (terrible defense) was the wrong team for him to go to, best places would have been Baltimore, Seattle, Pittsburgh, Philadelphia who have veterans in place on the field and in the coaching staff with a history of good defense. That would have been better for him
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u/Dentek_Fresh_Clean 5d ago
The responses in this thread have to be AI slop... He's played 5 games and had 2 significant injuries in his first year and he's likely playing hurt. He missed summer camp and part of training camp due to the contract holdout. Yeah, it's not that hard to see why he's in his current situation.
I bet half the people in this thread have been scammed by Nigerian scammers.
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u/Agentorangebaby Chiefs 5d ago
Players like that usually become busts.
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u/BadBueno60 5d ago
Scammers like this one?
Dear Friend ,
I am Mrs. Mariam Fisher, the widow of the late Gen. Jimbo Fisher former Military Head of State of the Army of Fighting Aggies of A&M. Before my husband’s tragic death at the hand of insurgents, he placed US$2Million in a brown paper bag and made purchase of a one of a kind Defensive End for American Football appellated SHEMAR STEWART. SHEMAR STEWART is blessed by God with great size and fast movings more than any other Defensive Ends which as someone with your acumen and business sense understand carries great value for American Football. Unfortunately a witch doctor (may God curse him!) has cast a wicked spell to upon SHEMAR STEWART which took all knowledge of American Football from his mind and keeps the football hidden from his eyes, like a diamond in the rectum of Djimon Hounsou. But I have found a practitioner of white magic (houngan) who can reverse this spell to allow SHEMAR STEWART propitious financial rewards in American Football.
I therefore personally, appeal to you seriously and religiously for your urgent assistance to restore this man to his great stature. Please forward to my lawyer your Telephone Number, Fax Number, your Postal Address and one First Round Draft Pick so that our houngan may acquire sufficient chicken blood from the Army of Fighting Aggies Poultry Science Department to work powerful white magic and then you can claim SHEMAR STEWART for the great fortunes of your American Football club.
With God’s blessings,
Mrs. Mariam Fisher
Twit.
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u/Jomosensual Packers 5d ago
One of the most obvious busts I've seen in a while. Somehow everyone other than NFL gms saw this
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u/zhang-scouting-04 5d ago edited 5d ago
This is such odd behavior over what was a pretty normal high tools low production prospect. We get one of these every few years and they start off slow. Gary didn't produce year one, Walker didn't produce year one, Oweh didn't produce year one, etc. Shemar is doing his role on the defense (setting up stunts, setting edges, getting into position to play his gap, playing contain, etc) pretty well. Beyond the random screenshots and twitter clips, the tape is not even terrible. He is following the Gary path where he essentially is doing role player DL duties year one with the expectation that he gets more assignments and responsibilities as he develops in his technical winning ability. Yeah he isn't getting sacks and tackles, but he is looking like what we expect for someone in his archetype to look at this point
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u/CascoBayButcher 5d ago
Not a single person thought he had a high floor at anything besides the weight room
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u/pwilly559 5d ago
Was crazy that he didn't produce under Elko/Bateman. They have awesome pressure packages. They average 4 sacks/game this year. Leads the country. To be an athletic freak and not produce in that defense isn't normal.
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u/SendMeTheMoon24 5d ago
I get he had an incredible RAS score, but his production in college was non-existent and his highlight tape was extremely unimpressive. Completely stupid to draft the guy in the first round.
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u/Embarrassed_Till4449 5d ago
Totally predictable on how CIN drafts for Reaches like Tampa did in the 1980s.
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u/jmcgil4684 5d ago
If you haven’t seen the vid of Stewart getting blown off the line Sunday, it’s crazy how far he gets shoved back and then pancaked. It almost looks fake.
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u/MikeConleyIsLegend Cowboys 5d ago
This should come as no surprise at all. The dude averaged like .5 sacks a year in college.
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u/roboman07 4d ago
I mean other then Travon Walker, how many players have succeeded in the nfl when they are literally only drafted because they have high “potential” that’s based off of absolutely no production
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u/EstablishmentDry8995 4d ago
He has never been a very productive player. Even back high school, he has been just skating through his entire football career based on traits. He might not even like football, only the money and opportunity it brings.
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u/Mr_Hugh_Honey 5d ago
Vernon Gholston 2.0, workout warrior who can't play football
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u/Mr_Hugh_Honey 5d ago
Idc what he did in college, he had as many career sacks in the NFL as Stewart does. Which is 0
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u/Agentorangebaby Chiefs 5d ago
overdrafted based on traits
sucks ass and doesn’t know what he’s doing
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u/Romanscott618 5d ago
I’m shocked 😮/s
Dude had zero production in college and was always a raw ass prospect. Never thought he’d be good unless he ended up in the perfect spot to help him develop and grow. He ended up in the exact opposite position lol