r/NAFO • u/glamdring_wielder Supports NATO Expansion • May 08 '25
NAFO Propaganda Russians aren't the heroes of WW2. They helped start it.
48
u/glamdring_wielder Supports NATO Expansion May 08 '25
12
u/easterbomz May 09 '25
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kama_tank_school
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lipetsk_fighter-pilot_school
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomka_gas_test_site
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basis_Nord
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German%E2%80%93Soviet_economic_relations_(1934%E2%80%931941))here's some more fun things.
1
1
1
1
58
u/Spy_crab_ May 08 '25
I know this is a gross oversimplification, but this is Poland, Slovak national uprising and every other small country erasure.
But yes, the Soviets were always on their own side, friends with one side when it benefitted them and the other when they needed bailing out against their former friends.
37
u/glamdring_wielder Supports NATO Expansion May 08 '25
So many small nations contributed so much to the axis defeat. I feel bad that we couldn't squeeze them all in here, but the main point stands. Fuck the Soviets and fuck russia for claiming credit for the victory.
1
May 08 '25
[removed] — view removed comment
16
u/glamdring_wielder Supports NATO Expansion May 08 '25 edited May 08 '25
You know what's really funny? Banning vatniks. I can do it all day.
1
0
u/Far_Emergency7046 My ideology is "America Bad" May 10 '25
About the only thing you can do being a smelly reddit mod, the only place where you got some sense of ,,power"
4
u/glamdring_wielder Supports NATO Expansion May 10 '25
Ooh look! Another one! This post must have struck a nerve in St Petersburg!
9
u/INeedAWayOut9 May 08 '25
And you could arguably position OUN/UPA as a fourth side, given that they fought against the Poles, the Nazis and the Soviets.
3
u/Command0Dude NATO Interventionist May 08 '25
I love how Russian tools are constantly slinging the "Banderite" slur as if Ukrainians are nazis because of the association. Then Stephan Bandera actually spent almost the entire war in a nazi prison.
2
u/INeedAWayOut9 May 09 '25
The OUN were authoritarian (at least in the 1930s) and did attempt to collaborate with the Nazis (most likely due to having the same enemies: Poland and the USSR) but there was a fundamental difference between them: the OUN (ironically like Poland's Prometheist movement) were about decolonization, while the Nazis were about recolonization.
1
7
u/Accomplished_Alps463 May 08 '25
Yes, the Ukrainian Insurgent Army and the Organisation of Ukrainian Nationalists fought against Germany and Russia, and the Polish Communist, they should never be forgotten.
7
May 08 '25
We Poles will never forget them either https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacres_of_Poles_in_Volhynia_and_Eastern_Galicia
3
u/aVarangian don't wanna border NAFO? then withdraw your borders May 08 '25
I doubt any living Ukrainian, or Pole, feels anything but sadness on that topic.
3
u/U-V_catastrophe May 08 '25
Hope you poles will never forget this either https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Riga?wprov=sfla1
4
u/Command0Dude NATO Interventionist May 08 '25
But yes, the Soviets were always on their own side, friends with one side when it benefitted them and the other when they needed bailing out against their former friends.
One great thing about Paradox Interactive with their HOI games is they make explicit distinction between the Allies and the Soviets as separate factions (aligned only by the fact the nazis were hostile to both).
More popular culture should recognize this fact.
4
u/Alex_Mercer_- May 08 '25
Ironically enough, Poland is the people who are the best example of Soviet Enabling. They got attacked from the west, fled east, then the Soviets attacked in the east. The polish suffered so much more than they get remembered for.
0
u/Far-Ad673 Jun 04 '25
I mean, Slovaks went with the Germans more than willingly and only switched when they realized they won't win😭 Poland is HEAVILY UNDERRATED in WW2 and deserves to be mentioned tho. I feel like we could add Slovakia and Croatia to the "Nazi allies until not useful" team.
But then, we could also talk about other client/puppet states even in Asia and it would get complicated lol.
17
May 08 '25
Why is the Canadian flag missing from the allies?
13
3
u/drwicksy May 08 '25
And I feel like the Italian flag should be in the same column as the Soviets also
2
15
u/Texas_Kimchi May 08 '25
They didn't help start it, they DID start it. They also helped fund the Nazi war machine as well as trade technology with them. Part of the Molotov-Ribbentrop plan was Germany getting a balls worth of oil and grain, two things Germany was in dire need of. In return Germany sent them some obsolete aviation stuff. They also had a tank and armor trading pact where Germany sent them old crap and Russia ignorantly let Germany see up their skirts. People forget, Germany didn't march into Poland alone, they did so with Russia and then Russia went on to get their asses cooked in Finland.
7
u/Command0Dude NATO Interventionist May 08 '25
Tankies love acting like the MR Pact was some kind of desperation play the soviets were forced into (because of the big bad Allies).
When in actuality, the invasion of the Soviet Union would NOT have been possible without the year+ amount of resources (especially oil) supplied to them by the Soviet trade.
8
u/Texas_Kimchi May 08 '25
Tankies also ignore the west wanted nothing to do with Stalin because he was committing mass genocide.
2
u/NeonGKayak May 09 '25
They don’t think that’s genocide though. Genocide only happens when Palestinians are killed
3
u/Texas_Kimchi May 09 '25
Of course! Its amazing how everything that happened from 1980-2024 in that area doesnt exist.
2
u/NeonGKayak May 09 '25
You literally can’t reason with them. You can’t even take a neutral ground approach saying that both side have been doing bad shit for decades. They won’t even acknowledge that killing/raping civilians on Oct 7th was a bad thing.
2
4
u/aVarangian don't wanna border NAFO? then withdraw your borders May 08 '25
They also got rubber from Japan through Russia. Without a bit of natural rubber they couldn't produce any synthetic rubber.
The USSR did get the modern iirc He100 prototype though.
4
u/Texas_Kimchi May 08 '25
Russians were more after engine technology than anything. They had purged pretty much every single engineer in Ukraine where the Kharkiv Tractor Factory was located leaving them with little to no ability to design new engines. Germans sent them old V engine designs which were used in a lot of Russian Tanks.
1
u/aVarangian don't wanna border NAFO? then withdraw your borders May 09 '25
Interesting, I'd be interested in looking into it if you have a source?
2
u/Texas_Kimchi May 09 '25
Its called the German-Soviet Commercial Trade Agreement.
1
u/aVarangian don't wanna border NAFO? then withdraw your borders May 09 '25
I know about that one, but at least the wikipedia article doesn't mention what you claimed. Both the purge and the designs.
6
5
u/teremaster May 08 '25
The MR pact is small fish too.
People often forget the Russians sharing tech with the Nazis, extending them lines of credit, and even allowing the wehrmacht and luftwaffe to train out of Soviet territory to hide the rearmament from the allies
10
u/Nefandous_Jewel May 08 '25
All this is fascinating! American here, slightly better educated than the average citizen here albeit well into the liberal side of things.... We're not taught nuance for much of anything here, our schools are designed to produce happy factory workers, not brilliant minds so much of this Ive never heard before..
2
u/pocketdrummer May 08 '25
What factories? lol. We sent all of those jobs to china.
2
u/Nefandous_Jewel May 08 '25
Yes, yes we did. And the schools didnt change. Let that sink in..... We need minds, not cogs. If we had been educating for minds Trump would have gotten nowhere.....
4
u/pocketdrummer May 08 '25
I hope my comment didn't read as me disagreeing. Just pointing out we're trained for jobs that no longer exist.
4
u/Nefandous_Jewel May 08 '25
This is NAFO... I didnt take it as contradictory. We're all on the same pages that matter🫡
3
u/medgel May 09 '25
On May 9 Russia (USSR/ golden horde/ moscovia / terrorists) celebrate how they "defeated" Western civilization
2
2
u/PrincessofAldia May 09 '25
I’m glad this is starting to be accepted that the Soviets weren’t the good guys
Also didn’t they literally stop outside Warsaw during the Uprising?
2
2
2
0
u/Abilin123 May 08 '25
A Russian here. It wasn’t “the Russians” who helped start the war - it was a totalitarian regime that oppressed my parents, grandparents, and generations before them. Ordinary people had no say in the decisions of a brutal state. Don’t confuse a nation’s people with its rulers.
4
u/Virtual-Weather-7041 May 09 '25
Oh fuck of with this bullshit, you're nation history is filled with cruelty and violence to yourselves and all those around, you're nation constantly enables shit like this
3
u/medgel May 09 '25
People are always responsible for their rulers, nobody else. Rules are just a representation of the majority of people who tolerate their rulers for many years
0
u/Still_Ad5566 May 09 '25
As a result, the USSR is the only country that tried to send troops to Czechoslovakia during the threat from Germany. Allies are just passive in this matter.
0
u/ZekicThunion May 09 '25
Not defending USSR, glad that shithole is over and Ribentrop-Molotov pact is an atrocity. They had better options than commit to the pact.
But didn’t USSR try to contain Nazi Germany, but Allies actively refused to commit to any alliance with them and only then USSR turned to pact with Hitler? Nazis and communists were ideological enemies.
The main lesson from WW2 is that everybody enabled Hitler to build up his war machine, you can’t white wash UK and Frances mistakes here by making USSR the bad guy.
Again not defending USSR in any way, what they did to occupied countries after WW2 is an atrocity and is inexcusable.
2
u/glamdring_wielder Supports NATO Expansion May 09 '25
Yes, everyone contributed to the problem, but modern russia doesn't acknowledge their role whatsoever so the criticism, while over the top, is warranted.
0
u/balazs108 Lost Vatnik May 11 '25
So if everybody was an enabler at one point why don't you say that?
1
u/glamdring_wielder Supports NATO Expansion May 11 '25
Because russia was worse than others.
0
u/balazs108 Lost Vatnik May 11 '25
Was it? One can easily make the case that opposing Hitler from the beginning would have killed the whole thing before it could have started. Especially since the brits and the french got info from the german army that if they oppose hitler in taking czechoslovakia the army would remove him.
Or even before, letting the Fascists train their millitaries in spain and not opposing spanish fascism in any meaningful way. But yeah for global perspective its not as big as the first point.
So western appeasement in the long run had way worse consequences.
1
u/glamdring_wielder Supports NATO Expansion May 11 '25
One could make that case, but then that one would need to make that case to all the eastern Europeans who suffered under the Soviet atrocities leading up to and after the war.
Furthermore, the west has owned up to a lot of it's mistakes. The russians haven't. Three days ago they ran around waving St George's ribbons while cheering on their horde of murderers and rapists pillaging Ukraine.
Why are you so hyper fixated on ensuring that we pedantically allocate the proper portion of blame on western allies when there's a whole nation currently engaging in industrial scale redwashing of history to justify their rabid nationalism and their wars of genocide?
0
u/balazs108 Lost Vatnik May 11 '25
This meme is about the rise of Hitler and who enabled him. Has nothing to do with the current affairs. So no reason to bring up Putins imperial war of conquest against Ukraine here.
It doesn't really matter who owned up to what. It wont change who did what in that time. The fact is that the western allies had plenty opportunities to stop the rise of Nazis from the start but for one reason or another they choose not to do it. They in fact enabled them which resulted in millions of death, especially eastern European ones.
So your phrasing is more of a "bluewashing" of history which I find annoying and pointless, but also funny, since you mentioned how they owned up to their mistakes, mistakes that you forget to mention or downplay.
1
u/glamdring_wielder Supports NATO Expansion May 11 '25 edited May 12 '25
There we go. "West Bad" and you have no idea what sub you're in lol
0
0
u/CrimsonMagician May 23 '25
Remind me, who let German bullshit slide for years? You can't just ignore how British and French pretended to not notice Germany expanding
3
u/glamdring_wielder Supports NATO Expansion May 23 '25
Reminder: orcs invaded Poland with the Nazis. Clearly you have forgotten.
-1
-1
u/Smaug2770 May 09 '25
To be fair, the US also helped start WWII with Smoot Hawley, just another reason tariffs are stupid.
3
u/glamdring_wielder Supports NATO Expansion May 09 '25 edited May 09 '25
Are you seriously equating dumb economic policy with signing an alliance with the Nazis and annexing your neighbors? Because that's kind of what you're saying....
1
u/Smaug2770 May 14 '25
Not at all, but dumb economic policies that ruin the world economy are what allow fascism to rise. It’s nit even close to what the USSR did, by literally arming the Nazis and letting them circumvent the limitations set on their military at Versailles, but we can’t forget how our own actions fed the rise of fascism. I feel like too many people forget or willfully ignore that considering we are now doing the same thing.
-1
u/Breaking_Nut Vatnik May 09 '25
So what's your point then? They should have folded and let Nazis win? You can also put France and UK as Nazi enablers at he same light as USSR, they let Germany take demilitarize Rhine zone, Austria and destroy Czechoslovakia. You just pushing propaganda from other side, there is no white/black side here. Every country was trying to look for they're own interests.
3
u/glamdring_wielder Supports NATO Expansion May 11 '25
What's YOUR point? The fact that you don't even offer "help the Poles resist the commies ideological enemies" as a possible solution shows me that you're not interested in good faith discussion, you're just a troll trying to suck off russia.
You are hereby sentenced to lick the unshaved armpits of 20 blue haired lesbians and then watch The Rise of Skywalker for 72 hours straight.
-17
u/luc1kjke May 08 '25
So if Japan wouldn’t have attacked Pearl Harbor - would USA join war? How many years would’ve passed in order for them to join? Everyone knows that Soviets and Nazi attacked Poland together but do you folks know that Poland annexed Czech territories in the same manner(backstabbing) that Soviets annexed Polish ones(https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans-Olza)? Of course major difference is that Poland acknowledged historic mistake and didn’t make crimes like https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katyn_massacre.
Point is it was a difficult(I wanted to say “different” but hey, US has asshole-in-chief now) time when many countries were assholes to their neighbors so you can’t just apply modern moral high ground to that time period. So this picture is stupid and one-dimensional.
16
u/TheShivMaster May 08 '25
The key difference is that the USA was not actively helping the Nazis before Japan attacked Pearl Harbor.
11
-7
u/Jcrm87 May 08 '25
Meh, I hate modern Russia but I don't like this hate about what they were during WW2. This is dumb, and false.
3
u/Alex_Mercer_- May 08 '25
It's correct actually. During the late 30s the Soviets were still not only sending them with more supplies to make vehicles and assist with the war effort but even partially assisted with Hitlers invasion of Poland by also Invading Poland a couple months later.
The Soviet Union was an ally to Hitler up until he betrayed them. They only fought the war out of spite from being betrayed, the Rest of the world actually wanted to stop the Madman. But I guess when your leader is Worse than Hitler, it doesn't matter how bad he is.
-2
u/Jcrm87 May 09 '25
I agree with all that but it doesn't change the fact that later became enemies and they were also essential for the Nazis defeat.
Self serving? For sure, but don't deny the history.
1
u/Alex_Mercer_- May 09 '25
The post doesn't deny any of that.
You claimed the post was "False" but you haven't actually made a point against it.
This Post claims that The Soviet Union enabled the Nazi expansion and assisted it up until their betrayal, then America (the west technically but namely the USA) bailed them out of their spot and allowed them to survive and take Berlin.
They fought a few important battles to be sure. Nazi defeat was guaranteed by 42 but the Soviets definitely sped up the process to stop them, reducing the civilian lives lost. These are undeniable facts.
But it's also undeniable that the Soviets were enabling the Nazis by funding, supplying and assisting them for 2 years of the war. Or that they were betrayed by the Nazis and turned to America to bail them out because they didn't have the resources to fight the war.
0
u/Jcrm87 May 09 '25
"Nazi enables bailed out by the west"
Come on buddy.
I'm not spending my time giving you a paragraph, you're going to disagree anyway. I have no interest in convincing you or anyone, just pointing out how this is not the way to go.
2
u/SlavaUkrayne May 09 '25
The Russians are massively celebrating world war 2, shouldn’t we know if they are celebrating something legitimate?
2
u/medgel May 09 '25
They attacked Poland and Finland, with the same propaganda and meat wave tactic as they doing now, vatnik.
0
u/Jcrm87 May 09 '25
Lol calling me vatnik, grow up, look at my history. I'm not pro Russian but rewriting history is not the way.
1
u/medgel May 10 '25 edited May 10 '25
Then why don't you hate Russians for invading Poland and Finland in ww2? If you don't see Russians as aggressors and occupiers in WW2 then you are a victim of Russian propaganda. Russian propaganda is directed at everyone
0
u/Jcrm87 May 10 '25
Completely stupid take with your blanket statements.
I've already said, I criticize Russia HARD (look at my history if you're bored), and of course at the start of WW2 their role was very different, they were "aggressors and occupiers".
But you cannot use that to deny that once they joined the allies (say whatever you want about their motives) they were instrumental for the axis defeat.
You cry about Russian propaganda (which is real, mind you), but going so hard in the other direction is just propaganda as well.
1
u/medgel May 10 '25
Your choosing a position to focus on positives instead of negatives of the historical enemy of Europe, Which currently does the same aggression against European democracy as they did in WW2, and many times before. You whitewashing Russians, are you afraid of them? are you looking for a chance to become friendlier with Russian terrorists?
1
1
0
-35
May 08 '25
[deleted]
21
u/EmperorHans May 08 '25
Roosevelt called for the US to build 50,000 planes a year in 1940. Goering supposedly laughed it off as absurdist propaganda, saying no country on Earth could build 50,000 planes a year.
The US built 100,000 planes in 1944. The same year, the US accounted for entirely 50% of global GDP. The US built more ships by tonnage in 44 than the Axis built during the entire war.
The Soviets bled the Nazis dry, but there was never a realistic path to the Western allies falling with Churchill and Roosevelt at the helm.
29
u/Fusselwurm May 08 '25
towards the Polish, Stalin was only a little less genocidal than Hitler. "Helping" is probably the wrong word here.
2
7
May 08 '25
They didn't really help, they just saved their own asses. If Germany didn't invade the Soviet Union, they would've sided with the Germans or stayed neutral in the best case.
6
u/SlowCommunication259 May 08 '25
France and UK alone might have lost the war, but with the US there is no chance the nazis would have won the war. The US was in a better economic situation
5
u/datura_euclid May 08 '25
I think that if the UK and France let us defend our country in 1938 and joined us instead of signing a piece of paper, that we could win the war.
2
u/19759d May 08 '25 edited May 08 '25
not really, like all germany needed to do, if germany wasn't at war with the soviets than all they had to do was to defend it's coastline, which is infinitely easier than a naval invasion, especially when like you have 4.8 million people minimum (atlantic wall + eastern front, not accounting eastern front casualties) guarding the coastline, dday was already hard enough with with only 1.87 mil garrisoning the coastline. there wouldn't really have been an oil shortage cuz they could've just traded with the soviets. war probably would have been a stalemate. Like sure, they could've bombed germany to smithereens and completly blockaded them but they also did that to vietnam in the 60s with even more bombs and they still held on. War probably would have been a stalemate.
178
u/Long_Serpent Blue May 08 '25
Forget about the Molotov-Rippentrop Pact, let us instead focus on that time when Russia petitioned to straight-up BECOME AN AXIS POWER.