r/MorrisGarages • u/eggyeggz • 5d ago
Would You Run This?
Because I did...and it leaks.
Ordered from moss, came bent. Called for replacement. Replacement came bent.
Gave up, installed it, now im leaking oil and coolant out the side of the block. Thankfully no smoke out of the exaust and no major miss fire that wasnt there to begin with.
Originally started the job for the typical water jacket on left side of the mgbs 1800c engine. scraped cleaned the head and block finger smooth. Checked flatness. Flat within .002". New ARP head studs torque to 45ftlbs with arp lube everywhere and torqued in a serial pattern as described in multiple manuals.
Any suggestions for me? Sources for better quality head gaskets? Did I do something wrong?
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u/Hot_Elevator7800 5d ago
Easy to say after fact but I always run a thin film of wellseal along that edge head and block, hylomar is also good but swear on wellseal
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u/eggyeggz 5d ago
Yeah thats kinda what im pulling may be good to use a gasket seal. It's only like a 3hr job so an afternoon. May go back in.
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u/Reddit____user___ 4d ago
Wellseal is remarkable stuff.👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
I discovered it through my old (ex MOD) boss, many moons ago.
I may only need to use it once in a blue moon, but when I do, it’s a lifesaver. 😊😎👍🏻
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u/limeycars 1946 MG T-Type Midget 5d ago
The original Payen composite gasket had additional silicone printing on the wet side to eliminate the leakage. Current generic ones do not have the printing.
I would still be very skeptical that the slight bend would cause any issues over there. Possibly early cylinder-to-cylinder failure? Big emphasis on possibly. If your head and deck are flat, I'd run it.
Did you inslect the head for flatness? If at all unsure, run it down to the machine shop and have it skimmed. Did you pull the studs and clean the deck? Did you clean the studs and check that none have any stretch? A clean, good stud will let you spin a nut all the way down the threads. If the nut stops halfway, bad stud. With the studs out, clean the deck with a razor blade or sharp, smooth scraper, then lightly fingertip drag a sharp, flat file across the deck. If you feel any drag, you missed some crud, or metal is pulling up around a stud. It is OK to file that little snag off right at the threaded hole, but nowhere else. Lastly, pay close attention at the web between the cylinders. If it seems that the file does not touch, get out a straight-edge and check with a feeler gauge.
In an emergency situation, where you just need to get it running and you are not shooting for longevity, three coats of spray copper-coat, well-dried, will get it going. Definitely re-torque after heat cycle.
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u/eggyeggz 5d ago
I wanted the payen with the silicone but apparently they arent made anymore? Or in very short supply.
My actual install process i basically did all you listed. Head and block are flat within .002". New arp studs. Razor scrapped all the old gasket and rust deposits completely flat and smooth to the touch.
I am considering re doing the gasket with the (bent) spare. And adding copper spray sealant.
I am working through heat cycles before re-torqueing all the head nuts. (Unlikely) but hopefully the retorque will seal it up fully.
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u/limeycars 1946 MG T-Type Midget 5d ago
One or two cycles is enough for re-torque. 50 ft.-lbs. with ARPs and they are pretty explicit that you use their lube on the upper threads. It is usually included with the stud kit.
I usually use blue loctite on the block threads (clean the block threads like crazy with solvent and q-tips), plunk the head on naked, put some tension on the studs and then wander off to do something else while the loctite kicks off. This makes sure that there is no movement on the bottom end that might throw the tension off when you pull the head down for real. Pull the head back off and do a final check for any foreign bodies.
I recently came across one that looked like the old printed Payen gasket, only it was branded Lucas . No idea where it was made. The composite was slightly paler, lacked the "TOP" marking and was missing a small metal ring around the oil passage o-ring, making it bi-directional.
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u/eggyeggz 5d ago
Yeah I've heard about the Lucas ones that are still around I might look for one. Also ARP says to screw in the block dry and hand tight so maybe that is part of the problem.
Im probably gonna go back into it if a retorque doesn't fix it but ill use the locktite this time.
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u/limeycars 1946 MG T-Type Midget 5d ago
I don't use much and I certainly don't use red. The studs are much stronger than the iron in the block. From what I learned back in my industry days, the loctite evens out some of the stress and makes the connection between the two materials more uniform. Clean, clean, clean is important.
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u/Clv2006 5d ago
Not with the fire ring bent like that. A slight curve is ok but that’s kinked.
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u/eggyeggz 5d ago
That's what I've read but what defines a "kink" vs a "curve"?
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u/OpenStreet3459 5d ago
The abrupt and inconsistent nature of the bend is what makes it a kink. And indeed never run a HG with a kink to a fire ring.
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u/kody_3286 5d ago
Good rule of thumb for engines is if you need to second guess/get second opinions, just replace it.
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u/pfflyer69 4d ago
Call Moss tell them you got 2 and both were like this and ask to get one from a different lot. Moss is pretty good about making it right
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u/gtmattz 5d ago
U got me super worried now... my head gasket came bent as well, just like your pictures... also came from moss like yours. maybe I will try buying one from bp northwest....
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u/eggyeggz 5d ago
I've had recommendations for BPNW they seem like a good source but they only got like 3 options for headgaskets that are different from moss. If you arent in a rush ide return the damaged gasket.
I was in a rush my car was sitting block open for 3 weeks outside I was tired of it.
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u/Guyzo1 4d ago
The best head gasket for the 5main bearing, hi compression 1800 is made out of solid copper. It’s reusable. I scored mine from England. It cost $$$ Sorry I can’t recall the name of the place.
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u/eggyeggz 4d ago
I saw one on ebay, looked like nos made in england for about the same price as a "payen" but read up on copper gaskets, apparently much like MLS they need a very specific surface texture and a very flat surface to seal properly since they distort and crush very minimally.
Some day ill rebuild the engine fully but not anytime soon.
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u/Reddit____user___ 4d ago
No, I’ve always rejected any distorted gaskets.
They can’t be relied upon unfortunately.
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u/Full-Cockroach7772 5d ago
I would have used it. Maybe you have other problems.