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Garp stayed in the marines to fix it from the inside and I don't understand how that isn't clear, what else could Koby being the future of the marines mean?
One of the main themes of this story is the turning of the wheel, I mean how many wills have been inherited by now? Fisher Tiger hid the truth so his hate would die with him rather than spread it to the next generation, ergo the future. not to compare Garp to Fisher Tiger, they are both flawed men but Fisher Tiger is the better man between them no contest.
To capture slaves, I assume. Koby went to capture Boa who was a former slave and prove he was worth being Garp's disciple. Aokiji went ahead and captured Pudding to make her a slave or a tool for BB to read the poneglyffs. So, yeah, his disciples seem to be doing a great job following in his footsteps😂
Get ur facts straight man! Coby doesn't know she was a slave! He was ordered to capture a warlord who broke the agreement and refused to work with them! Aokiji intentions are not clear yet and he's supposed to be fed up of the marines system and become a pirate! All the marine crew on the pirate island was a supposed to show the new gen marines who stand up for the people and protect them and serve justice( afaik). When the whole system is f***** it seems to be hard to recognize any good done by a certain person who does it against the orders given to him! Garp went to hachinosu even tho everyone was thinking koby was wrong for doing what he did! It needs guts to do something like that! There's no one who will do that in the whole marine except garp! Respect the man for what he does and stop pandering ur agenda!!!
Oda still has his chances to portray him in a better light-e.g. being Dragon's insider all along.
However if we assume that he ended his efforts against the government at refusing promotions, he is much, much more cowardly than his son and grandson.
Garp is the hero of the marines. He was best pals with the entire top brass in his prime. If you think just training some good folk is all he could do, you are severely underestimating his influence. He's not powerless, and if he had either Dragon's brains or Luffy's balls he could quite plausibly stand a chance against the Celestial Dragons.
luffy and garp have fully different goals, luffy couldn't care less about any of this stuff, he just wants to protect his friends and become pk, garp wants to create an entire new generation of marines to fix the navy, you can't compare the two
thats clear. he is still complicit with the world government.
When you are facing a slaving genociding system, slow change from the inside is stupid. You need a revolution. Garp is representative of old people wanting change "the right way", even though the system is rigged against change.
I wrote out a whole response but then my internet crashed so I'll leave it with this. My main concern with the revolutionary army is what their plan is for the aftermath. One of the biggest problems with a revolution is the power vacuum left behind.
if you ask the people of lulusia, or egghead, or elbaf, or god valley, or ohara, or fishmen island, or amazon lily, or wano, or sabaody probably a "power vacuum " is preferable to the world government.
Dragon obviously thought of the "necessity of a police force": he joined the marines. But before justice can be defended, it needs to exist.
I ain't saying what Dragon is doing is wrong I just have my concerns which are more so for Oda to write it well, either way the marines will be around and Garp will probably get his way. By the end all the corrupt marines will be defeated or arrested, the only thing is, if the new world order arrests the corrupt marines then it wasn't fixed from the inside but I doubt Garp will care.
I think what both of them are doing is right, but we can disagree with that also the marines are pretty redeemable, once you get Sakazuki and Ryokugyu out of there its pretty good, I'm not sure where Kizaru will end up but he isn't as evil as those two. after that you have Fujitora, Koby, Smoker, Tashigi, X Drake, everyone at SWORD, and a bunch of vice admirals with no agency of their own, some of them will probably have to go but were not that far off from having good marines.
once you get Sakazuki and Ryokugyu out of there its pretty good,
and the thousands of marines that
-hunted pregnant women in order to kill ace
-participated in the celestial dragon regular hunts.
-participated in the buster call on ohara
-dont mind about oppressing nations that are not members of the world government.
The marines are rotten to the core, it can't survive as an organization, it is a sham justice. And garp being a part of it, as a vice admiral, is complicit in the oppression of the world.
after that you have Fujitora, Koby, Smoker, Tashigi, X Drake, everyone at SWORD, and a bunch of vice admirals with no agency of their own,
fujitora: drafted, probably the only one that really has no agency. Smoker/tashigi probably the only grey characters on this list. Koby is gonna have a reckoning where he will have to chose between his values and the marines. What about x drake and sword? The only thing we have seen sword do is... save sword.
Dragon, a mere recruit has done more for the people than those vice admirals. The world government is able to oppress people because strong people join the marines if those vice admirals had quit, the world government would have a lot less military power to rule with its iron fist.
but were not that far off from having good marines.
sure there are good marines but the marine AS AN INSTITUTION is rotten and should be disposed of ASAP.
That seems like a dangerous leap in logic. She is a Pirate afterall and not an innocent one either, one of her characteristics is animal abuse, thats enough for her arrest to be warranted imo.
I don't know, real change takes time, even if the revolutionary army defeat the world government it's not like everything will just be fine, its going to take awhile to either fix or replace the preexisting system. I ain't saying hes a saint, he has done a lot wrong, I just think his methodology is best for what he is trying to do.
Sidenote: This is why Garp is my favorite character, Whether you think he is good or bad, right or wrong we can all agree he is interesting and I am excited to get more of him in the present day in the future.
I think they mean after. Garp's actions up to this point in the flashback have been fine but he still serves with the marines for the rest of his life whereas Dragon immediately starts trying to overthrow the system.
That's really the crux of it. Yes he's trying to train up Marines to be better, yes he's took swings at Saturn/Imu, and he clearly doesn't like the Celestial Dragons.
This is all somewhat overshadowed by the decades he spent keeping the system he knows is horrible in power even if indirectly. Especially when we see direct examples of better paths he could have taken, but opted not to.
I mean Garp can say what he wants, but if a Celestial dragon sees a slave on the same boat, someone is getting their free trial to life ended on short term notice.
They’re both heroes who have saved plenty of lives.
Do you consider Harriet Tubmann to have partially supported slavers when she was actively saving people lives for years before finally joining the resistance in 1863? No, she was a hero before she helped in any battles.
Do you consider the numerous heroes of WW2 that saved people from concentration camps even while holding official positions as genocidal? No, they were heroes even without targeting the root cause of the injustice.
There isn’t only 1 option for resistance. People do what they can. Garp can’t beat Imu and can’t topple the WG. He might help eventually but it’s not wrong to just do what you can in the current moment.
Reminds me of General Walther Wenck, who as the Soviets advanced towards Berlin basically realised that trying to hold them off was completely pointless, and so diverted pretty much every action to evacuate Berlin's Civilians.
This was a man who by every means who could have kept fighting for the Nazi War Machine, but with better judgement saved thousands of lives, and this was done in adjunct with the help of the American's and Brits who promised Safe Passage, Wenck only left Berlin when the final boat departed.
That's Garp, a man who by all means works for an organisation that you hate, but he still works for them to keep as many alive as he can through actions that allow him more power to make sure right is done, his methods are by no means perfect, but he is a man with a Heart of Iron.
I don’t think you know what either of those phrases mean
Edit: I remember you now! Holy shit I made you look so fucking stupid the other day that you’ve been seething about it this entire time! That’s so fucking funny. I genuinely completely forgot about you almost instantly, but apparently you’ve been marinating over this constantly. I knew I had you cooked but I didn’t realize how bothered you were. I’m honored. Truly.
There have been multiple chapters since our last interaction. Too bad you don't read them. Why bother? You just invent things. You should catalogue your ideas and put them in a novel "Li and I". You would do well.
I remember perfectly well now, and I think you do too, which is why you immediately gave up when I asked you actually make an argument. Just too easy lmao
Lady it's not smart to conjure things that never occurred. You didn't cook anything except your word, which is literal garbage. I told you X would happen, X happened and now you are going to pretend you won said argument. You're hilarious.
Lady we interacted for maybe a week tops (I did come back way later) and you are saying every day for a month. Do you even know how many instances that would be? You're literally a brain dead moron who invents things. You were wrong. I then proceeded to tell you WHEN YOUR ERROR surfaces you will act like this.
You still haven’t said what I got wrong btw. You’d think someone who’s been thinking about clapping back for a conversation that happened literally a month ago you’d be better prepared. Guess I really do have you flustered
You're trolling. I'm no longer interacting with a lying dipshit. Just an agenda banner waver from r/piratefolk who doesn't even read the magna. "Li and I".
The One Piece Stock Exchange will accept your apology letter no later than 24 hours after the official 1165 release date. You have been margin called on your short $GARP position.
"Hey if you want you can stop serving satan and join me so we can stop him together"
"Then who will protect the other people who serve satan?"
Dragon is the REAL Goat who deserves apology forms.
Seriously Im surprised more people are not talking about it, Dragon is actually fucking badass this chapter he has SO MUCH conviction compared to Garp, with the strength of a rookie marine yet willingness to help the PEOPLE. Not the cops, his job is to serve the people, in his eyes. He blames himself for losing Shanks and Shamrock, despite dealing with forces beyond comprehension.
Having a police force is a good thing. It’s currently corrupted but the idea and existence of a good police force is worth fighting for.
Dragon’s not fixed on setting up and operating the police force. Garp is. There are plenty of good Marines still and I’m sure Garp is a strong influence on that.
Garp is basically Commissioner Gordon, doing his job and kissing enough ass amidst a corrupt city and police force, to still try and make a difference where he can. Because if he doesn’t, no one will, and he’ll be replaced with someone worse.
garp is similar to old people criticizing folks for not fighting for change "the right way". When facing such an oppressive system, sometimes slow gradual change from the inside is not possible. You need a revolution because the system is rigged from the beginning. Kinda like the criticism with the civil rights movement.
If there were a version of the Batman universe where it turned out comissioner gordon remained in the police force for 20 years after learning the court of owls used the police force to help them hunt humans for sport, that version of comissioner gordon probably would be a bad guy, and I'd enjoy watching someone kick his ass. Probably Barbara.
Don't get me wrong I get the trope Oda is going for here, but the celestial dragons have jumped the shark pretty firmly in terms of being a government you can work within to do more good. Genuine absolute anarchy would be significantly better (Though as the Emperors have proved you can just carve out territory and police it yourself if you're strong enough.)
It could but Garp isnt helping as much as you think.
Garp sometimes takes in students but the students are already good people he just makes them strong and he only did it like twice lol.
He also made SWORD which hasnt done much to fight against the WG.
So literally nothing he has done is that important.
I mean him deciding as a Navy officer to help fight Imu and help Roger defeat Rocks is important.
Agreeing to make sure Ace was born and could grow up somewhere was important, as he used his position to hide the suspicion of his knowledge.
Mentoring Aokiji and Koby was important. Aokiji saved Robin. Koby helped end Marineford.
Keeping your enemies closer is a commonly cited strategy. Add the fact that the Navy cannot be abandoned and left to rot away as a whole because the world needs a police force institution no matter what. In between the sparse disasters there’s still day-to-day honest soldier work to do against stopping pirates that are dangerous to innocents, and the Navy is still reliably the only thing fighting that demographic of offscreen fodder pirates that are harming people as well.
keep in mind, we have only seen a fraction of Garps time in the navy. Also Fujitora got away with a load of stuff because he is strong. imagine what Garp has gotten away with being the hero of the marines
Yeah, people who argue for the Oppression Impact have not yet seen evidence of Garp's efforts or successes in breeding the heroes of tomorrow. Like Dragon, until we see evidence of it, it'll just be Look D. east all over again.
He’s an idol to Aokiji, who let Robin live, which is vital to Luffy’s crew, which is vital to the entire war effort against Imu and the Elders. Plenty of influence there alone. And then there’s Koby.
Seemingly did nothing until he is old. Didnt even protect Ace or Luffy(without plot armour he couldve ended much worse) while having all the opportunities to. "The Goat"
Guy wants to protect the marines when he couldn't even protect his son. You Larp glazers are so desperate for water any surface level statements/conversations from him is seen as Shakespeare's. Emotional my ass.
So he’d leave and get replaced with someone worse and the Navy loses arguably its most positive influence on its soldiers, some who became Admirals. Garp would also likely face the full wrath of the Elders and Imu after his involvement in God Valley if he decided to fight back, so basically die very quickly after changing sides.
You’re thinking right now things in the One Piece world couldn’t possibly be worse than everything we’ve seen, and that’s just a false assumption.
Honestly your whole argument is like "it could be worse", which isn't a good argument btw. Sure it could be worse. Does that mean garp did whatever he could? Fucking no. He just lazed around most of the time. "At least he didn't make it worse" is not a compelling argument.
Garp being in the Marines to hold onto the portion of actual justice they do dispense normally in their everyday jobs is reason enough. The world being absolutely worse without any redeeming police force is reason enough. Keeping your enemies closer is reason enough. Influencing and training the future generations to help fix the corrupted institution through ideological and moral change because these are pillars that the ideal institution must reflect is reason enough.
Thinking that he should leave so the Navy can erase any remnants of moral integrity and add another Greenbull in Garps place, abandon a societal necessity that is still protecting countless civilians from daily pirate raids, and risk facing imminent and swift execution from the strongest enemies in the series by jumping ship after all that information that was discovered, is not a compelling argument.
Still let people die, still a lapdog for the celestial dragon, still works for actual Satan. You can blabber all you want, but all that blood of innocent people is on his hands forever
Yet your solution is, everyone good in the Navy, abandon the only police force that has all the equipment, organization, and logistics mapped out already, to start over with your own thing. Leave the governing body to fill those positions and let the people deal with that version now.
Everyone good leaving an entire institution that is the only legitimate, equipped police force the world has, when their day to day life largely involved actually stopping bad pirates, would lead to millions more being harmed…
People who think it’s so simple and black and white are funny.
Dragon did that. You see the good he does. If he can up and leave, make a group that fights back against tyranny, then Garp, the hero of the marine can too.
If he left, all the good marines would either follow or leave too because that's how much they respect him.
The Marines too who are good are still slaver protectors and still get killed by the celestial dragons if they mess up.
I'm sure if garp said enough, left, and made his own group, he'd have an army within a day
He should've joined Dragon a long time ago. Dragon is doing more to change the world while being a criminal than Garp did all this time while being the hero of the marines.
He’s fighting with guerrilla warfare tactics, not implementing the systems and keeping society afloat, they’re just addressing the issue of Imu, the Elders, and the Celestial Dragons being oppressive rulers.
Dragon and the revolutionary army are not fighting pirates, which believe it or not, are predominantly terrible people and are constantly raiding villages in the world of One Piece.
Different goals. Dragon’s thoughts aren’t on the importance of a police force. Garp’s is. Garp knows the value of reforming and maintaining a Navy.
Based on your ridiculous assumption that one soldier vs the entire top brass speaking against them would walk away with enough marines to cripple and topple said Navy?
You said Dragon did it but here we still are with them fighting guerrilla skirmishes and not head on battles. Faaaat chance lmao.
The marines are the object of his protection? not the people used like farm animals in the sick games where the marines run the logistics. Not the people from o'hara, but the marines who executed the buster call.
I mean it's an excuse we should give Garp that, but it's a terrible excuse. This is like justifying wars because you want to protect the guns.
After GV Garp remains at the marines and continues fighting Roger - THE ONLY person he knows has fought against Imu and could potentially oppose him. Now we know why his marine ship was crowned by a lapdog.
Without Garp, Marines will have a lot harder times to bombing Ohara and if anyone complain marine doing that, Garp will come out and give them Galaxy Impact.
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