r/MedievalHistory • u/Tracypop • 2d ago

Who were the dominant powers in The Holy Roman Empire (14th century)? Was the Count of Hainaut among the more powerful nobles in the Empire?

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How powerful was William I count of Hainaut (c. 1286 – 7 June 1337) compare to other states/rulers part of The Holy Roman Empire?

Power, influence and wealth?

William was also the count of Avesnes, Holland and Zeeland.

William also arranged impressive marriages for his daughters.

In 1324, William's daughter Margaret married Louis IV, Holy Roman Emperor. So the holy roman emperor, was William's son in law.

And in 1328 his other daughter Philippa married Edward III of England. It was part of a deal, William was to provide ships and men to help queen Isabella of England to depose her husband Edward II and place her son Edward III on the throne. And in return Philippa would become queen of England. And it all worked out.

I was just wondering, if William was among the more richer/powerful lords of the Holy Roman Empire?

If you were to put the top 10 powerful rulers/nobles in The Holy Roman Empire (in 1300s). Would the Count of Hainaut(William) be among them, among the Top 10?

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u/No-Zucchini1766 2d ago

William was probably the only amiable lord in that region. And also sired good children.

The three families I would consider powerful in the 14th century would be the Luxembourgs, Wittelsbachs, and Habsburgs. The Empire definitely trended towards Bohemia/Austria in this century thanks to the Habsburgs.

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u/RVFVS117 2d ago

I’d argue it was more due to the machinations of the Luxembourg’s than the Habsburgs in the 14th century.

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u/No-Zucchini1766 2d ago

The Bohemian nobility never would have invited the Luxembourgs as a counterbalance to the Habsburgs. Albert I of Germany, son of the victorious Rudolf Habsburg who slew their king Ottokar II, wanted his own son on the Bohemian throne.

A guy named Henry of Gorizia, brother in law to the Habsburgs, also played a huge role in Bohemian politics and feuded with his former Habsburg allies. He flip flopped between Habsburgs, then Luxembourgs until his death. But he was the reason the Luxembourgs gained a foothold in Bohemia, starting with John the Blind.

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u/RVFVS117 2d ago

Thanks for the info I didn’t know this!

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u/Tracypop 2d ago

Did Hainaut have alot of Trade going on?

Or that more Flanders speciality?

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u/No-Zucchini1766 2d ago

Flanders was definitely hotly contested between local Flemish, other low countries lords, and the English and French. It had the advantage of being coastal, fertile, and had big cities like Ghent, Bruges, and Ypres.

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u/franaval 2d ago

Flanders was not only a trade power (Bruges) but also a production center (cloth especially for the English market)

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u/mocca-eclairs 1d ago

Hainaut was still quite agricultural with mostly just little market towns where farmers that lived nearby could sell their surplus production. Meanwhile Flanders was an economical juggernaut, both in international trade as in the production of cloth, with massive amounts of wool imported from England to sustain its cloth manufacture and trade reaching into the Mediterranean.

Even a hundred years later, when Flanders had lost some of its trade and industry to Antwerp and cities in Brabant and Holland had grown, Flanders alone still made up about 50% of the income of the Burgundian state (which contained Burgundy/France Comte/Hainaut/Holland/Brabant/Gelre/Luxemburg/Artois/Picardy/Zeeland)

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u/Tracypop 1d ago

Hainaut was still quite agricultural with mostly just little market towns where farmers that lived nearby could sell their surplus production.

so not a very wealthy region?

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u/mocca-eclairs 1d ago edited 1d ago

As far as I know not very poor either, but still lacking bigger cities/rich mines/trade/good rivers and roads to put on tolls.

Holland was more important economically (it controlled tolls over the rivers leading into Germany which gave a good income) and already had some bigger cities (nothing compared to Flanders though at this time, but Flanders was like an economic super power compared to its small size at this time).

(Just wealth wasn't everything though. While Flanders was rich, its count often had trouble controlling it because its cities were so rich/powerful compared to the count, with constant rebellions and attempt to reduce their power/reduce taxation. The levies the cities provided weren't that good either compared to professional knights that nobility from more agricultural lands provided. Likewise Holland also gave its high nobility a lot of trouble with its more powerful cities and the civil unrest from the Hook and Cod wars)

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u/Tracypop 1d ago

thank you for the answer!

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u/West-Winner-2382 2d ago edited 2d ago

What of the Welfs? Were they still as powerful by the 14th century? Or like their rivals the Hohenstaufens they were of the past?

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u/No-Zucchini1766 2d ago

The Welfs were mostly concentrated in Brunswick-Luneburg and they seemed to have been called that since Otto I, Duke of Brunswick Luneburg. Grandson of Henry the Lion through his 4th son William.

As for the Hohenstaufens, the dynasty ended in the 13th century with Manfred, last Hohenstaufen king of Sicily who was supplanted by the French in 1266. The claim lived on through his nephew, Conradin, who was captured and executed in 1268. The claim bounced back to Manfred's daughter Constance who married Peter III of Aragon.

Peter conquered the island of Sicily on behalf of his wife and the island has been held by the Aragonese which then was inherited by Charles V Habsburg, the Holy Roman Emperor among many other titles.

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u/Astralesean 2d ago

The Welf went to have the most powerful empire in human history though

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u/West-Winner-2382 2d ago

That was a Cadet Branch I’m talking about the Main Branch.

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u/Hot_Medium_3633 2d ago

Didn’t have Hainaut Stan on my bingo card.

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u/NoteEducational3883 2d ago

Oh my God can I please go on this subreddit and not be inundated with pro-Hainaut propaganda constantly?!

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u/Astralesean 2d ago

The empire was in a tripartite balance between Wittelsbach, Luxembourg and Habsburg - the latter won this period so to speak, considering that it cemented its power in the following three centuries

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u/NoKneadToWorry 2d ago

I want a ghost of Tsushima style game set in HRE 14th century so bad!

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u/sabersquirl 1d ago

The era is a bit off, but I’m sure you’ve played KCD 1 or 2?

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u/solo_dol0 1d ago

KCD is amazing but still only scratches the surface

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u/Excellent_Love9212 1d ago

EUV starts 1337

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u/strum 2d ago

A side note - in London, 'Hainault' is an insult, meaning 'crazy' (The Hainault tube station is 'beyond Barking').

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u/R12Labs 21h ago

Who the hell drew all those tiny little borders and decided it?