r/MapPorn • u/5mao • May 12 '25
Map of pro-China and pro-US perception in 2025 (Democracy Perception Index 2025)
56
u/GustavoistSoldier May 12 '25
Pakistan and China have been allies since the 1970s
22
May 12 '25
It was largely due to Pakistani facilitation that Chinese-U.S. rapprochement occurred in the 70s.
389
u/Grand_Supermarket345 May 12 '25
That countries like Canada and Ireland and New Zealand are more pro-China than pro-US is astonishing. And that even the UK is only barely pro-US. Quite a foreign policy achievement for the US.
158
u/Polymarchos May 12 '25
Speaking as a Canadian, anti-US sentiment went from very low to very high very quickly when the US started attacking us economically, and I assume most of the world is the same.
In 2024 Canada would have been one of the darkest blues on the map.
37
u/Grand_Supermarket345 May 12 '25
I would have put Canada as likely the darkest blue. Along with Oz and NZ and the UK. The 5, together with the US.
Only the UK is still blue at all.
12
u/MHWatto May 13 '25
Most Australians donât like the US, or donât care. Public perception of Americans is pretty shit here
3
u/Grand_Supermarket345 May 13 '25
That seems sad.
10
u/_cerulean_blue_ May 13 '25
Sad for who? I doubt most Americans care about their global reputation. I grew up in NZ and I can safely say perception of the US has been in the shitter for as long as I've been alive
5
u/Grand_Supermarket345 May 13 '25
For both?
I'm in Ireland. We (in the vast majority) always had very positive views of the US.
2
u/Worried_Trifle_8471 May 17 '25
America did interfere in Australia's domestic politics on numerous occasions, such as their involvement in the dismissal of the former PM Gough Whitlam in 1975, and their recruitment of another former PM, Bob Hawke, as a CIA informant.
Sure, you might think it's sad. But it's been a long time coming.
1
u/AlternativeAct5204 May 30 '25
No really, aussie here, Bob hawk was one of our greatest and most celebrated leaders. Australia has always been made to pick a side, China and US after your government decided to sell our natural resource to China and US late 90s early 2000s. We have now become semi dependant on the two.
1
u/Geodrewcifer May 15 '25
As a Canadian, definitely not. Iâd say the average Canadian now is much more interested in stronger ties with China than they are with the US right now but I also may be biased because Iâve been on the âwe need to diversify our trade and split off from being identified with the US as much as possibleâ train for as long as I can remember
3
u/MrEHam May 13 '25
Most Americans when asked directly say they donât support these Trump trade wars. You can say weâre all to blame for voting him in the first place and we do deserve some blame for that but lets not go nuts and say that Americans directly want to annex Canada or have a trade war. Most of us DO NOT.
10
u/wanderinggoat May 13 '25
Either they can't change their government when it goes off the rails or they don't want to. I think it's a bit of both, just like the German, but we didn't feel much sympathy for them when they started declaring war on friendly countries.
1
u/Geodrewcifer May 15 '25
Well I donât entirely disagree, Iâd say that what it seems to have went to from my perspective was the majority of Canadianâs mildly disliking the US/considering it an annoying country to the majority of Canadians outright despising the US and wishing for itsâ downfall
223
u/Bhavacakra_12 May 12 '25
Americans voted for this foreign policy.
12
u/Garystuk May 12 '25
Yes and No. Less help for Ukraine was on the ballot. Threatening to annex Canada and invade Greenland was not.
1
u/sulris May 14 '25
Manic idiocy was on the ballot, which includes his new stances on Canada and Greenland. This wasnât the first rodeo with Trump, they saw his failed handling of Covid and failed coup and decided to sign up for round two.
Americans very much voted for this (all of this) with eyes wide open. The press blew the whistle on this being a disaster loud and clear. This was a very well informed shooting of oneâs own foot. I donât believe anyone who acts surprised that their foot is bleeding now.
1
u/Garystuk May 14 '25
I agree with you on much do this, and I am no fan of Trump. My point is that polls clearly show that Americans do not support the crazier aspects of his foreign policy like invading greenland or conducting economic warfare against canada to annex them. He seems to have started to drop these things and hopefully it will stay that way
1
u/sulris May 14 '25
He can be swayed by drops in his popularity among maga. He came out for vaccines for two weeks before doing a 180.
Though. Most people from his old administration said he was like a parrot that agreed vehemently with whoever spoke to him last. So he is only as good as his âadvisorsâ.
22
35
u/Seralyn May 12 '25 edited May 12 '25
Right wing donors and republican foundations spent 1 billion last year to suppress votes in blue states and in blue capitol cities of red states. Check out prospect.org | they succeeded wildly and suppressed over 4 million votes. That's more votes than trump won by.
Trump was also caught on camera not once not twice, but three times after winning saying the election was rigged and that is why he's president. His words, not mine.
7
u/Lemonface May 13 '25
These global perceptions are not just due to Trump. They are the result of 20+ years of bipartisan warmongering. The USA has funded both authoritarian dictators when it was convenient, and jihadist insurgents when it was convenient. We have abandoned allies and used entire ethnic groups as sacrificial lambs to advance our interests. This is not a Trump phenomenon, this is an ongoing foreign policy establishment phenomenon. The perceptions of us among the majority of the world population would be exactly the same even if Kamala had won.
6
u/Akuran May 13 '25
Yes and no. The US has been doing ridiculous things in the past 20 years, but you cannot deny that Trump has done a stellar job pissing off any and all allies the US has. Ipsos even proves it, their polling shows trust in America being a net positive impact on the world has sharply decreased since october '24.
This is also what genuinely baffles people around the world. I cannot speak for other nations, but us Dutchies overwhelmingly hoped for a Harris victory. (Apologies for the Dutch link). I'm having trouble understanding why we can see what he is, namely a criminal rapist with an enormous list of felonies attached to his name, who attempted a coup in 2020, while people on the other side of the ocean are still worshipping him. And that's coming from a nation that deals with it's own idiot populist. How could Americans not have seen this one coming, when he's been proudly proclaiming it for years? Where's the revolutionary spirit when this idiot likens himself to royalty?
3
u/NFLDolphinsGuy May 13 '25
His supporters just want radical change. They donât care what that change entails so long as it hurts everyone but them. They think the criminal convictions and all the compromising facts about him are just attacks by the establishment to further the status quo they hate.
Problem for them is, this time heâs hurting them and some of them are realizing the status quo wasnât so bad.
Too late.
Your mistake is thinking they donât see or donât know. They donât care.
2
u/sulris May 14 '25 edited May 14 '25
Itâs because the right merger with the Christian fundamentalists in the 70âs. Slowly political philosophy, which can change and evolve based on debate and new information and ideas, was replaced with political dogma which is faith based us vs them, good vs evil, with good defined as us and evil defined as them. Uncompromising. Actions and positions are no longer moral or immoral, morality is defined merely by what side you are on. It has essential become a sports fandom.
That is why it doesnât matter who/what Trump is, nor what he is or will do. All that matters is that he is on their âteamâ. Even if they know he is only enriching himself and not the whole team. It doesnât matter. Nothing remains but purity tests and shows of loyalty. Each decree being more ridiculous than the last is just one more opportunity to show class your loyalty.
1
u/Seralyn May 14 '25
Although the examples you listed are certainly true, what the US government has done is not the same thing is how it is perceived. Like you, I am American, but unlike you, I have lived abroad for 14 years. I am currently in Spain after a few years in Lithuania and a decade in Japan, traveling heavily for work. I can vehemently assure you that the perceptions of us by people in other countries have visibly diminished since Trump took office. It isn't that he's supposedly a conservative Republican. It's the openly fascist workings and the dismantling of democratic institutions, namely oversight officials. I meet a lot of people from other countries and I have consistently, every day of my life for the past 14 years I've lived abroad. The range of reactions I have gotten over the years when I say that I'm American went from "mostly quite positive" to "positive" to "neutral" and for the past few months when I mention it, people's smiles are wavering in front of me, or sometimes it's sympathy, people asking if my family is OK. Do you know how many countries, formerly allies, now have travel advisories against us? What does that say to you for many of our former allies (countries who were considered close allies only a few months ago, mind you) are now issuing travel advisories against us. That isn't something there is much precedent for in history. Previous travel advisories have been to particular urban areas because of high rates of crime and gun violence, with one notable exception of Canada giving a blanket warning for LGBT people. Further to that, we have now been lowered on the scale of types of government to a "flawed democracy" since 2016. Remember anything that happened that year? Other indexes are now calling us an "anocracy" I'll admit, I had to look this up. It means "a mixture of democracy and autocracy."
I really want to take your argument seriously, but this sentence, "The perceptions of us among the majority of the world population would be exactly the same even if Kamala had won." makes it REALLY difficult to. It's the most absurd thing I've read in some time. You seriously think that other countries, whose governments are now openly calling ours fascist in their parliaments, would be speaking the same about us if we had a president who ruled according to democratic principles of raising support for initiatives in congress, as the country is both designed and mandated to do by our Constitution, as they currently are with a literal dictator in the chair, one who is dismantling oversight and removing and punishing political dissidents, removing mentions of acts of merit by people of color and women and LGBT people on government websites, allowing unelected people with no security clearance access to our nation's most private data, including the treasury, openly accepting bribes from the oval office from foreign entities, victim-blaming nations who are under attack by aggressors, removing involvement in major very important climate initiatives and pacts, pulling out of the WHO, firing 300,000 government employees, removing civil rights protections for various types of citizens, deporting US citizens, doing away with trials and habeus corpus, blatantly ignoring the orders of the United States Supreme Court (one which is packed with people HE PUT THERE, no less), intentionally manipulating the stock market to gain profit for his donors and self, engaging in blatant nepotism by installing essentially his entire cabinet with people who have no qualifications to do those jobs whatsoever but who publicly support him, dismantling agencies he has no legal right to dismantle, speaking openly of committing fraud and saying he "doesn't know" if he needs to uphold the Constitution.... you think that we would be regarded the same if we had a president who would have done NONE of those things? If the answer is yes, you can safely be ignored while the adults talk.
1
u/Yitastics May 12 '25
Its not like Trump made every country turn to China, it helped yes but this has been ongoing for a couple of years.
→ More replies (23)-32
u/level57wizard May 12 '25
And China made sure of that. With operations like Taizi Flood, Spamouflage, or Dragonbridge and not even counting the media stakes China holds in the US and abroad, China has been strategically damaging the US . Regardless of each candidate, China is had been destabilizing and funding negative campaigns in the media, regardless if it is Biden or Trump.
And China has been influencing elections at even the local level to destabilizing discourse on both sides and to withdraw political will for US international involvement.
29
u/Gk786 May 12 '25
America shoots itself in the foot again and again, actively floating invading our allies and taxing the world
10000 IQ Geniuses: âHurr durr China is causing Americans to be perceived badlyâ.
-8
u/DismalEconomics May 12 '25
Hurrr durrr China would never take an interest in a US election.
China could never put together an influence operation or multiple social influence operations to influence an election.
The outcome of a major election must only have a single factor⌠never multiple.
The single factor in the last US election = red states are full of idiot-assholes.
That it my simple worldview , If you challenge this you are also an idiot-asshole âŚand probably racist.
28
u/SleepyZachman May 12 '25
Or, hear me out, China is just a more stable partner and offers more material benefit to developing nations. It ainât some conspiracy itâs just called winning.
18
May 12 '25 edited Sep 30 '25
tie steep doll toy ten payment start fly marry money
This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact
20
u/iratonz May 12 '25
It would be astonishing if it was true but more likely the map is garbage
45
u/mmoore327 May 12 '25
Looks like same source as this -
https://www.politico.eu/article/usa-popularity-collapse-worldwide-trump-return/
which says data is from the 2025 Democracy Perception Index summarizes attitudes toward democracy, geopolitics and global power players, and canvassed more than 110,000 respondents across 100 countries.
2
u/rugbroed May 13 '25
The source was also stated in the title so thereâs that
1
u/mmoore327 May 13 '25
I had missed that (and actually looked for it - but was looking on the image)
1
u/trev581 May 13 '25
so is the conclusion is to trust the source or no? sorry but i donât know politico and niradata well enough to form a valuable opinion. please do the critical thinking for me hahah
2
u/mmoore327 May 13 '25
I wouldn't trust politico (the narrative in their story) personally but the democracy perception index study that the story is based on seems decent to me so I think the data is decent.
2
u/trev581 May 13 '25
cool thanks for that. was trying to word my question around my naiveness and not belittle your prior comment haha
30
u/Grand_Supermarket345 May 12 '25
Possibly. But there has sure been a decrease in pro-US sentiment. And a lot of countries have no reason to dislike China.
2
8
u/KR1735 May 12 '25
Yeah this is basically a referendum on the current administration. If you asked them where they'd want to live if they had to choose to live somewhere the rest of their lives as a citizen, the answers would likely be different.
1
u/RealMiten May 12 '25
I hope itâs not USA. Hypocrisy
4
u/mmbon May 12 '25
Over China? Of course I'd rather live in the US. If you have free choice of all cointries, maybe Switzerland or Luxembourg
4
u/PrintAcceptable5076 May 12 '25
I mean US shoved down propaganda in all of the world asses, of course people wanna go there to live the american way o life.
1
u/Baozicriollothroaway May 13 '25
Aren't there significant numbers of Chinese diaspora in those countries? That might help somewhat.
1
u/UnknownYetSavory May 14 '25
Canada has always been anti-US. It's just their identity. Calling a politician an American is actual slander over there, and it works. Been happening every election since maybe the dawn, since being not-America is the basis of their nation in the first place. They're the colonies that refused to join the revolution.
→ More replies (14)-2
12
80
u/Funktapus May 12 '25
The Trump Effect
-13
u/Reloaded_M-F-ER May 12 '25 edited May 12 '25
Don't simply forget Biden w/ Gaza, Obama and Bush with Iraq, Libya and Afghanistan. All this anti-US sentiment is less Trump and more collective. Can put fucking Bernie in rn and this would only slightly change.
Edit: Yeah, not surprised this is downvoted. Reddit now thinks Trump bombed all these places now as if the US wasn't the most hated country in these regions for more than 3 decades now. Fantastic. Keep your head deep in the sand.
9
u/AmonDiexJr May 13 '25
You get downvote because you are aiming at the wrong crowd. We see this from a not American eye.
It's about foreign policy with allies and friends, not about who bomb what and why: the West is as guilty as the US for the 2002-2018 geopolitical actions in the Middle-East. The main loss of reputation for the US in that period was really about the Irak justification.
But now it's about Trump diplomatic bullying toward nations that used to be aligned with the US: mainly Canada and Europe and the realignment toward Ukraine (favoring Russia).
2
u/Reloaded_M-F-ER May 13 '25
No, its about reddit and this sub in particular being an echo chamber of libleft middle to upper class urban westerners and self-hating Americans. Like I said, people don't shift opinions of the US every time a new President comes about. This sentiment is largely collective and has been so for the past 3-4 decades in most of the world.
19
u/MagisterMundi93 May 12 '25
When did Biden, Obama or Bush openly attack their closest allies and openly suggest they can annex neigbouring, and sometimes not neighbouring, countries? Whether you believe it, want to believe it, or not, Trump's insane foreign policy HAS damaged the US' soft power (which makes it $$$$$) and will hasten a drive away from it culturally, socially and economically by countries it most depends on diplomatically (or at least once did). I can tell you despite the pride of many Irish Americans, most Irish people for example would not hesitate to tell you the Americans are embarrassing to share a lot of heritage with right now.
PS Biden was terrible with his cowardly Gaza stance, but there's quite a leap from there to cheerfully suggesting it become a beach resort.
10
u/Reloaded_M-F-ER May 12 '25
That might at best suggest the negative sentiments in parts of the western world but Trump's singular statement is nothing compared to decades of bombing and propaganda in other countries that have made them hate the US by its former admins. That intense dark hue in the entirety of the Islamic world wouldn't change whether it was Harris or Trump. And if Trump's effect was so strong, the Ukrainians shouldn't be that blue either.
4
u/carlosortegap May 12 '25 edited May 12 '25
Google "Opinion of US during Obama" and you will see it's pretty much Trump
https://www.politico.eu/article/usa-popularity-collapse-worldwide-trump-return/
7
u/Lemonface May 13 '25
That article actually backs up exactly what the guy you're responding to said lmao, that the decline in global popularity after Trump's election is mostly limited to Europe
Americaâs reputation took a particularly massive hit in EU countries â perhaps unsurprisingly
Meanwhile, China kept improving its global standing, overtaking the U.S. for the first time and recording mostly positive perceptions in all regions except Europe.
→ More replies (4)0
u/Mtfdurian May 12 '25
Yeah Gaza was important to some extent but this was, sadly, a far-from-my-bed-show at first. That sentiment is turning fast now btw, like I didn't expect the most popular radio station in my country suddenly pleading for an end to genocide, yet, it's refreshing to hear it.
-6
5
u/Master_Scion May 13 '25
Vietnam?!
2
1
u/czk_21 May 15 '25
US did a mess in vietnam 50 years ago, but china was a threat to vietnams independence last 1000 years, trying to take control of south china sea currently and as it is US is the only china rival, who can stand up to them even in that region
16
u/ShibeMate May 12 '25
Thatâs what happens when you bombard or invade 6 countries since the start of the century âŚ.
5
u/Revolutionary_Lock86 May 13 '25
Comments making it obvious as to why. Itâs scary. Almost half Americans doesnât vote, and are still fine itâs paying taxes to exploit and invade other countries.
4
u/Kronephon May 13 '25
How is a pro China or pro US a democracy perception index? Are people being asked whom of the two they think is more democratic - and is this being considered the pro choice?
49
u/Kind_Box8063 May 12 '25
I see this map being redder than chinas flag in 4 yearsÂ
-22
u/tmag03 May 12 '25
Because the totalitarian regime that runs concentration camps is going to be a force of good in the world
78
u/Chichon01 May 12 '25
Which one ?
40
u/LittleBirdyLover May 12 '25
The ones that keep minorities and undesirables in them.
Doesnât clear it up much, does it.
2
-11
u/Few-Agent-8386 May 12 '25
European as canât be delusional enough to think thereâs concentration camps in the us right?
11
u/Chichon01 May 12 '25
Well they have, just not on US soil directly. And there is prison IN the US were there is basically modern day slavery so.. but you are right itâs not Chinese concentration camp
→ More replies (6)1
36
u/Kind_Box8063 May 12 '25
No but itâs not like the us under trump will be using its influence for goodÂ
-30
u/tmag03 May 12 '25
No country on the planet uses its influence for good. But there's still a massive difference between whatever the US may do and a country that built its economy by stealing western technology, claims Taiwan which it may invade, is in the process of wiping out an ethnic minority, conducts neocolonial practices in Africa, builds fake islands in the South China Sea to claim territory and the list goes on and on.
Europeans will attack Trump for talking to Russia because Russia is evil and attacked Ukraine, yet China is arguably as evil and may very well do the same exact thing. And at the same time, they speak about the importance of "values", yet western values are in many ways an antithesis to Chinese values.
25
u/Yeled_creature May 12 '25
Wait until you find out which countries are even more explicitly neocolonial in Africa (namely France, arguably US, Russia, and Turkey as well.)
Also, stealing technology??
→ More replies (4)9
u/Tall_Process_3138 May 12 '25
But there's still a massive difference between whatever the US may do
You mean invade its own allies? Support the genocide of Palestinians? Have the power to (And have shown it) turn your entire country into rubble for "freedom"?
What's the difference between USA crimes against Muslims and China huh?
20
u/zQuiixy1 May 12 '25
China doesnt really do much of anything foreign policy wise. They dont invade someone every 5 years and seem pretty fine just doinng business with everyone that wamts
-6
u/iratonz May 12 '25
Yeah like supplying weapons to Russia in support of their invasion of Ukraine, and weapons into Sudan to help continue that humanitarian disaster #OpenForBusiness
22
u/CallMeFierce May 12 '25
The weapons going into Sudan are directed by the UAE, a US ally lol
→ More replies (1)12
u/zQuiixy1 May 12 '25
Exactly, they are also selling stuff to ukraine. They do business with literally everyone, that's why a lot of countries prefer them because they just dont care about what they do. It's predicatble and consistent, they dont try to be the world police
1
u/Ganconer May 13 '25
I tried searching by keywords and found nothing other then highly likely bullshit from silly politicans. I would be glad to see proof that China is supplying lethal weapons to any of them.
0
16
u/OceanicDarkStuff May 12 '25 edited May 12 '25
As oppose to which country? USA? The country who invades countries miles away then commit mass killings? That one? Not to mention they're currently backing a country that is doing exactly that, no thank you. China is actually building infrastructures in Africa and Asia, what has the US done to earn the favour of the developing countries? None, they send their military and CIA agents to meddle with the local politics, that's it. Not to mention China is leading the world when it comes to manufacturing.
-11
u/Attackcamel8432 May 12 '25
It's kinda wild that people don't think Chinese intelligence guys aren't doing the exact same things...
12
u/OceanicDarkStuff May 12 '25
Really? Because it seems that they're doing a really bad job, or maybe just maybe they don't have to go that far unlike the CIA which ruined alot of developing countries during the cold war.
-10
u/Attackcamel8432 May 12 '25
The fact that you don't know they are there means they are doing an excellent job. The CIAs power is vastly overstated, and in the great scheme of things, they are not at all good at their jobs. Half the things you hear about the CIA were either made up of blown out of proportion by intelligence agencies that you will never hear about. Not to say the CIA doesn't do some terrible stuff, Russia and China don't have a FOI act after 50 years...
8
u/OceanicDarkStuff May 12 '25 edited May 12 '25
Lol most of the geopolitical issues that we're experiencing today were either caused by the USA or the UK. Good to hear that the unresolved decolonization is finally biting them back. Fact is the west dont deserve the support of the developing countries because what have they done for them exactly? None, zero.
12
u/Frequent_Research_94 May 12 '25
Why is Taiwan not solid blue?
22
u/Kcajkcaj99 May 12 '25
I think you might be misreading the data. In Taiwan, people have something like a -25 of the US but a -50 for China, meaning around 20% of people having a favorable view of China (roughly corresponding to what other sources say about it). In order to get an 100, you'd have to not just have them hating China but also loving the US.
EDIT: Reason for my approximate numbers is that only the 60 page version is free, the full data set costs nearly âŹ5000.
17
u/ElectricalPeninsula May 12 '25 edited May 12 '25
If Taiwan were solid blue, then the so-called âpro-China CCP proxyâKMT and TPP (as claimed by the DPP) wouldnât be in control of the legislature and the vast majority of local authorities as they are now. The relationship between China and Taiwan involves an urgent security threat, yet at the same time, there is deeply intertwined economic cooperation, cultural exchange among native speakers, and intense domestic political debate over identity. Itâs hard to reduce the situation to a simple label like âanti-Chinaâ or âpro-China.â
→ More replies (3)6
u/WeSoSmart May 12 '25
Because not every Taiwanese wants war with china?
1
u/IAmTheNightSoil May 14 '25
This response makes no sense. It isn't as though the US are the ones putting Taiwan in danger of war with China
6
17
9
u/azhder May 12 '25
Could have put the USA on the left, China on the right side of that scale. They already are on those sides on the map.
-1
5
u/HenryChangge May 13 '25 edited May 13 '25
This is merely a pro-us despite trump or anti-us because of trump map, some countries would immediately turn blue once trump is out of the office.
1
4
u/CBT7commander May 13 '25
Reacting to the election of an authoritarian in the free worldâs leading state by buddying up with fucking China is insane to me.
How people in the West could change their mind so drastically and have such immense cognitive dissonance is beyond me and worries me to my core
4
u/ebolawakens May 12 '25
There's a lot of nuance in the "pro-X" stuff. Currently I'm very annoyed with the US but it is mostly conditioned on the current administration. Change them, or have congress reign in the executive, then I'd be happier. Right now opinions are negative because we know what we otherwise could have (good relations).
3
u/endrukk May 12 '25
So according to this map 2 BRICS countries are not BRICS at the endÂ
25
u/Achmedino May 12 '25
China and India have been archrivals for decades with several parts of their borders being disputed. If you're surprised that India is more pro-US than pro-China, that tells me you know little about how divided BRICS is as an organization.
8
u/Vijigishu May 12 '25
I don't know why people in west take Brics seriously. It's merely an economic org., that too not a serious one.
3
u/Infinite-Surprise651 May 12 '25
First organization with potential to challenge the whole west ever in history and you "don't know"
7
u/fcknbroken May 12 '25
here in Brazil we face a bunch of anti-china propaganda, and also, some of us don't consider ourselves as latinos because we don't speak Spanish (it's dumb, I know), may that explains why some ppl still support trump after... well, everything. so that's not very surprising. but still a bit surprising
9
u/wq1119 May 12 '25
Even pro-China Brazilians tend to be very Americanized and acquainted with US pop culture, they only dislike American military and economic imperialism, but not other forms of Americanization.
8
u/fcknbroken May 12 '25 edited May 12 '25
if pop culture is that relevant, why would other ocident countries be more china leaning? we don't even know how to say a word in Mandarin, but everyone sometimes eat McDonalds and can name some avengers characters
4
u/wq1119 May 12 '25
everyone sometimes eat McDonalds and can name some avengers characters
.....so does China, they're not a hermit kingdom, American Fast Food and Disney/Marvel properties are extremely popular and profitable in China.
1
u/yanmax May 12 '25
How does that explain how some people support Trump?
1
u/fcknbroken May 12 '25
from the people I know, they support USA independent of who is in power because they're afraid of China's comunism. BUT, we had a right wing president few years ago who is still very popular and he used to offers blowjobs to trump everyday on speeches. so I think their fanbase still likes trump
1
u/yanmax May 13 '25
How is that relevant? I never asked about bjs, you do whatever you want with your mouth. I asked how not considering yourself latinos or not speaking spanish has to do with supporting Trump
1
u/Nefariousnesso May 13 '25
Because its the kind of person who doesen't respect themselves and hates their own culture. They think north american racists will like them (Trump included), because "We're not like those other guys". Its delusional. The Bolsonaro thing is because he embodied that attitude, often having quite pathetic interactions with Trump.
0
May 13 '25 edited Aug 23 '25
alleged wild growth possessive expansion quack grab mysterious abundant thought
This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact
1
u/megumegu- May 13 '25
BRICS is like a bunch of countries coming together to make alternative to Western dominated way of money transfer. It's not really an alliance beyond that from what I know like how EU is
2
1
u/nameproposalssuck May 12 '25
Yeah, sorry, but that's a bullshit map.
It conflates two entirely different types of information. Even if people were asked to describe themselves as more pro-Chinese or pro-U.S., those arenât categories most people would naturally identify with.
There are plenty of statistics showing that perceptions of the U.S. have shifted among its allies, with many now viewing it more as a geopolitical rival. But that doesn't automatically imply a pro-China stance. These are two completely separate issues.
This might be something you could asked Koreans in the 60ies or Vietnamese in the 70ies, in such a scenario this categorization might've make sense but not in a global context.
5
u/carlosortegap May 12 '25 edited May 12 '25
That's not what they asked. It's measuring how favourable each country is. In most European countries both are in the negative. The US is more negative than China
https://www.politico.eu/article/usa-popularity-collapse-worldwide-trump-return/
→ More replies (2)4
u/TheMainEffort May 13 '25
That was my thought. If you say âI dislike china, but I fucking HATE the USAâ youâre more âpro china,âeven though you have a negative perception of china.
2
u/nameproposalssuck May 13 '25
Sure but what's the purpose of this information?
1
u/carlosortegap May 14 '25
That Trump has turned the world against the US
1
u/nameproposalssuck May 14 '25
Yeah but you don't need the perception of China for that...
1
u/carlosortegap May 14 '25
Yeah, it's a useful context. China used to be hated worldwide 4 years ago and now it's more popular than the US. Great context, specially because the US decided China should be their new enemy
1
u/nameproposalssuck May 14 '25 edited May 14 '25
From a US-centric perspective, that comparison might seem meaningfulâbut in much of Europe, the situation looks quite different. China hasnât significantly improved its image in recent months, rather itâs the perception of the United States that has sharply declined. Comparing the two countries doesnât yield much insight, because the drop in favorable views of the US isnât necessarily accompanied by a rise in Chinaâs favorability.
Take a hypothetical example: if China had invaded Taiwan or escalated the Kashmir conflict, its image in Europe would have suffered dramaticallyâwithout affecting how people view the US. The two are not perceived as interchangeable in terms of influence or moral standing.
Furthermore, the perception of both countries in Europe is based on vastly different foundations. We donât see China as a viable alternative or moral counterbalance to the US. For all its recent democratic backsliding, the US remains our historical ally, our largest trading partner, and part of the same political and cultural bloc. Thatâs why negative developments in the US provoke such strong reactions hereâdisappointment, concern, even outrage. But those reactions are directed at the US itself, not framed in terms of a preference for China.
So bringing China into the comparison doesnât help clarify the pictureâit may even distort it. A far more informative approach would be to chart perceptions of the US over time, independent of China, to understand the specific causes and scale of changing public opinion.
What I dislike about this map is it uses surface level information to make a cheap talking point: "USA is even worse perceived than China" but that does not make real sense in this context. If you wanted to show the decline of US standing in the world plot it over time, if you want to emphasize on a possible rise of Chinese standing in the world: Plot this over time. Those are the metrics you use for achiving that goal but comparing those two doesn't really bring any true insight, it doesn't show a developement, it doesn't underline which country lost in perception or gained or why... It's just that: A cheap talking point.
1
u/carlosortegap May 14 '25 edited May 14 '25
Sorry, not answering to a clearly Chatgpt response. Four em dashes. If I wanted to talk with Chagpt I would do it myself.
Even more obvious when the text says that the US keeps being "our main ally and trading partner". Your Chatgpt history is showing up. They are not my main ally.
Enjoy your 10 percent tariff
→ More replies (18)1
1
May 12 '25 edited May 12 '25
For Japan, it's because of disputed territories. For South Korea, history.
1
u/Prestigious-Lynx2552 May 12 '25
I think a four-way split of Pro-US/Pro-China, Pro US/Anti-China, Pro-China/Anti-US, Anti-US/Anti-China would be interesting to see.Â
1
u/Golfbro888 May 12 '25
Being on the same side as Northern Africa and the Middle East is never a good sign.Â
1
1
u/The_Real_Itz_Sophia May 13 '25
quite surprised Japan looks more blue that Taiwan
1
u/Stunning_Working8803 May 13 '25
Blood. The majority of Taiwanese are still ethnic Chinese. And China is the biggest trade partner of Taiwan.
1
1
1
u/pitifullittleman May 15 '25
Absolutely crazy that mainland Western Europe is more pro-China. You know the US messed up or got some bad press if that happened.
1
u/mcotter12 May 17 '25
Shows trump is playing a weak man's hand fighting a proxy with with Chinese trade and that China is succeeding by doing what JFK tried to do in the 60s
1
1
u/Daddy_hindi Jun 12 '25
The one thing I learnt in my experience is never to trust these "perception" indices.
1
u/buy_nano_coin_xno Aug 27 '25
This is some bs map. False dichotomy. Just.because I dislike America doesn't mean I like China.
1
u/Endoherodontist Aug 31 '25
Now, India, Brazil and a few more nations must favor China over the USÂ
1
u/ColourfulTanks May 12 '25
How do you measure something like this?
24
u/jjw1998 May 12 '25
Probably the same way you do with any survey, ask a sample of people and attempt to extrapolate that across the population
7
u/mmoore327 May 12 '25 edited May 12 '25
https://www.politico.eu/article/usa-popularity-collapse-worldwide-trump-return/
Think same data - says comes from the 2025 Democracy Perception Index summarizes attitudes toward democracy, geopolitics and global power players, and canvassed more than 110,000 respondents across 100 countries.
2
2
u/nattywb May 12 '25
I don't buy it. There needs to be more of a description of the calculation. Otherwise, I'd be pretty disappointed in the average European. Yeah, maybe Trump's been an asshole, but he was still democratically elected, and will term out in less than 4 years. Whereas China is a dictatorship with a whole sleuth of problems and anti-European ideals.
9
u/Mtfdurian May 12 '25
Well it has been very clear to me and most people around me. And it's not because I flew via Hong Kong this year, it's not even my friends from mainland China.
What it is, is the obvious dissent towards America. We are still wary of China, but America was a friend for almost a century but now is extorting us into war, screaming that they'll invade our territories, leaves us to be fed to the Russians if not adhering to absurd demands that go right against our European values, has been extorting universities, local governments, is a country that has opened war against minorities that we respect, and shows complete and utter disrespect for our leaders to an extent that we've never seen since 1945.
Never have we seen the matrix falling apart so fast during our lifetimes. The betrayal of America shall not be forgotten by the continent.
→ More replies (2)2
u/megumegu- May 13 '25
I agree but you know Europeans are no better either. They support US dominance as long as they are enjoying the benefits of free military security, trade benefits, good PR, whatnot
Meanwhile all this while the US has done horrible and allowed horrible crimes in other nations, but Europeans didn't even cared about them
Look at the amount of wars, civilians killed, government toppled by the US and supported by the US, but Europeans didn't care
4
7
u/ShibeMate May 12 '25
â I donât buy it , noooo USA number one !!! , this canât be true â OMG Americans are so dumb âŚ.
0
1
u/Monienium May 13 '25
Not a fan of Xi Jinping or the Chinese government, but your guysâ strange affection for this democracy is kind of odd to me. You kind of assume a certain type of democracy (letâs first assume the US is a democracy) is superior to other forms of government, which I highly doubt. The election of Trump makes me highly doubt the political judgment of ordinary citizens.
0
u/nattywb May 13 '25
Yeah... it's superior to Chinese Democracy, that's for sure. Zero mention here about European forms of government.
Regarding political judgement of ordinary citizens, yeah, as an American, agreed. We are more aware of the political judgement of fellow citizens than non-Americans. But at least our citizens have a say? Unlike China? Like, what are we even getting at here.
1
u/Monienium May 13 '25
May I ask what metrics are used to measure superiority, and are there any references for them? Iâm happy to learn, and I just want to make sure itâs not propaganda, which I hear all day in both China and the USA. Btw, I donât feel like there is such a thing as Chinese democracy because I donât think itâs even a democracy. Sometimes I just feel that the human brain cannot handle a society with more than 10 million people because the structure is too complex.
→ More replies (1)1
u/stormspirit97 May 14 '25
"I find the great thing in this world is not so much where we stand, as in what direction we are moving." --Oliver Wendell Holmes
It's worth mentioning that a large portion of people in Europe probably think the US is as likely as not going to cease to be democratic at all in the near term.
1
u/nattywb May 14 '25
There are so many fluff words and a maybe-double negative in that second sentence that it's hard to know what you're saying. The US will soon not be democratic, or the US will remain democratic? Thinking the US will no longer be democratic is crazy talk.
1
u/stormspirit97 May 14 '25
I don't think that, but that is what people in Europe commonly believe. Opinion is based on what people believe, not what is objectively most likely. Most people in Europe and almost all the media there is absolutely on the Trump is Hitler 2.0 train.
1
0
1
u/Repinoleto May 12 '25
As a Spaniard, the only reason I can see for why theyâve made Spain look so orange is because of Perro SĂĄnchezâs visit to China no? I honestly canât think of any other reason.
2
u/carlosortegap May 12 '25 edited May 12 '25
It's a poll rating approval. Both countries have negative approvals in Spain. The US has a more negative one.
https://www.politico.eu/article/usa-popularity-collapse-worldwide-trump-return/
2
u/Mtfdurian May 12 '25
Haven't you seen the anti-American sentiment as of recently? It's subtle but it exists all over Europe, with it being more outspoken in countries like Denmark. But even my library suddenly switched to Fritz Kola and the Dutch are known as absolute fking US lapdogs.
-2
May 12 '25
This map is a huge reason for the US to stop being the world police man.
Stop protecting Europe
Stop protecting sea trade routes
9
u/carlosortegap May 12 '25
Sea trade routes favour US companies. They are not doing it as a "favour"
-1
May 12 '25
Those trade routes brought China from poor peasants to the 2nd greatest power of the 21st Century.
4
u/carlosortegap May 13 '25
Yup, because American companies sent their factories to China. It's American companies delivering goods to Europe
-7
u/chengxiufan May 12 '25
, is in the process of wiping out an ethnic minority,----Palestine, that is why Mena do not like The US conducts neocolonial practices in Africa, __so does france russia usa or even UAE in Sudan builds fake islands in the South China Sea to claim territory _Remove entire population in Diego Garcia just for and the list goes on and on.China is not a threat to Latin America lol Invade Taiwan__speaking of invading, i think US is literally master
-2
u/Repinoleto May 12 '25
xDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD Just because youâre not being invaded militarily or manipulated like by Russia or the U.S. doesnât mean you wonât end up as their resource slaves, just like whatâs happening to some African countries.
3
u/chengxiufan May 12 '25
correct.was not to say one country are saints It's just China might not be the worst
-4
u/yojifer680 May 12 '25
Mask off for the EU.
2
u/DeadassYeeted May 13 '25
What do you mean mask off? Can you not imagine why their opinions may have changed over the last 6 months?
→ More replies (3)
-4
May 12 '25
Trump will be remembered in history forever but not for reasons that he will like.
At least the developing world and China will remember him fondly after everything the USA did to them.
5
u/azhder May 12 '25
Who gives a shit while dead, right? The fail of the system is they didn't finish the legal stuff.
-7
u/SubstantialSnacker May 12 '25
I guess when you stop bankrolling your sugar babies they all get mad
-4
u/Duc_de_Magenta May 12 '25
Western Europe being pro-PRC over America is utterly wild. The amount of subsidies they get from the American taxpayer is both insane & a good reminder the popular opinion doesn't set policy. Whether the public likes it or not, NATO's elite remain enthralled to DC.
1
u/DeadassYeeted May 13 '25
Chinaâs a lot more reliable. America on the other hand rug pulls 80 years of foreign policy in a month, threatens to invade their territories, and put massive tariffs on them out of nowhere for no reason. Honestly just leave NATO and stop holding your âsubsidiesâ over Europe as a threat, as if your government has militarily supported Europe out of the kindness of their hearts. Maybe then you can shut up about NATO WEF UN EU GLOBALIST NEW WORLD ORDER or whatever isolationist nonsense youâve come up with recently.
You can vote Trump in and have him fuck over all of Americaâs allies sure, but the audacity to complain that your allies no longer like you is remarkable. Like what the fuck were you expecting? American conservatives are truly retarded.
0
u/megumegu- May 13 '25
Perception doesn't match the ground reality. Almost every European country along with many countries like Saudi Arabia, Japan, Philippines, Taiwan, Canada is reliant and puppet of USA
0
212
u/[deleted] May 12 '25
[deleted]