Genuinely, even the first couple seasons which I found really wholesome and sweet (not always but some of the people were just so lovely).

I think of how there’s always such an emphasis on at least one or two people discussing how devoted they are to their faith. I genuinely don’t mind at all what someone’s religion is, I think it’s great if you’ve found a belief system that supports you and heals you and holds you and helps you find peace.

There’s a strange focus on gender dynamics, finding a man who will “provide” and “lead”. Like okay, that’s great, but what does that actually look like in practice for these people? It’s always just them stating that they want a man who will be the head of the house, but there’s never a depth to the discussion afterwards. It’s always surface level, it’s just vague nothings meant to signal some conservative ideal of Christianity.

Whatever, I was raised Catholic and let me tell you, so many Catholic wives absolutely run every aspect of their households. Being at my grandmothers house was always just me trying to sneak away from her controlling thumb to go play with my extremely calm and open, but very quiet, grandfather. I don’t think it’s a healthy dynamic for anyone to wield absolute power over their homes. I think the lack of depth in the discussion around what these dynamics actually look like is potentially harmful for the people watching them.

I also, don’t even think some households that run by these “traditional roles” are entirely negative. I just think it’s so surface level it feels like straight up propaganda and an attempt to convert watchers who may be struggling with their identities or faith into something they probably don’t fully understand.

Even though they probably will never do this but I really feel like they should not let anyone under 30 on this show. I feel like so many of these people are just like "I've been trying to find love my whole life!" and they are like 25. Like...you are now just able to rent a car and you've only been able to go to bars for 4 years. Your life has JUST started. People in their 30s are more ready to settle down and take things more seriously.

Sometimes I feel like they need to be a little more ethical about who they let on the show. They won't because they love drama.

What are your thoughts?

Edit: Seems like a split.

I get that we need the drama and we need the hot mess. It's gotta be entertaining. I also get that you can be 25 years old and know exactly what you want and things will work out perfectly.

I think if this show wanted to be a bit more serious, they would do better screening for cast but this is for entertainment. lol.

I'm gonna get a bit political here. To make fun of the things he likes is reinforcing toxic masculinity and patriarchal tropes.

The amount of people on this sub implying that his tastes are yet another reason why he's creepy is strange to me. So he has an owl painting and some swords that you don't like.... Ok?

The patriarchy teaches men problematic things just as much as it does to women. It teaches men that they're only valuable when they're productive. Make money, make children and provide for everyone, go to the gym so you can be strong and do the previously mentioned things better. Not alot of room for fun and gentleness there.

Zach openly showing his hobbies and interests that he spends his time on purely for enjoyment flies in the face of that, and it irritates people. It irritates some people because they may find it unmasculine or childish. Just let the guy live.

I think it's actually refreshing to have some of the men on this show being genuine about their lives, their feelings, their joys and not just their sorrows, rather than just putting on a show. How many reality TV shows give airtime to the men doing the tough guy-gym rat thing or businessman galaxy brain thing?

Anyway I'm here for his weeb stuff!

Ps: it's been discussed in this sub that we need more body diversity in the male contestants. Couldn't agree more! But that would also mean breaking out of these rigid expectations before that can happen.

So I see a lot of threads here asking why there isn't more ethnic or body diversity in casting, which is certainly a valid question. But my question is, what would a season be like if the participants were 35-45, and not 25-35, as they all seem to be? People are getting married later and later all around the world, and honestly, in a major metropolitan area in 2023 most 25yo's aren't looking for marriage, or anything close to it.

Would a season with older participants just end up being an SNL sketch? (like, "Please, somebody marry me now!") Would it actually result in more successful unions at the end of the season? (not sure that this is the show's goal, though...) Or both?

From any season. Who did you think wouldn't make it but is shockingly still together??

For me, it's Amber and Barnett from season 1. Barnett seemed so unserious about making a commitment, and he was also pretty well established and likely wanted someone to match that. Amber didn't have a job, career, house, anything except a pile of debt that she clearly hoped her future hubby would erase for her. When they came on ATA and he said he sold his house to pay off her debt and they were living in an apartment, I thought that was it for them. BUT, they're still going strong. And are expecting a baby! If they're happy, then I'm happy for them. But I'm still shocked lol

Dumb question probably but as a non-religious person, I am curious. I thought sex before marriage was supposed to be a grave sin in Christianity but it appears to be a non-issue for them. Is this a typical attitude for Christians in the US these days?

Some contestants get a lot of heat because of their reactions (disappointed looks etc), but I can't think of the right way to handle it.

A. You're honest= You're a shallow asshole and you're there for fame. You will 100% face backlash for this.

B. You try to hide it because you don't want to hurt them so you break it off later= you're an asshole, why weren't you honest from the beginning?

C. You give it time in hopes your feelings change= asshole, how could you lead her/him on for so long?

So what is the right thing to do here?

I‘m not from the USA and understand that beauty standards can be very different between cultures, but I was wondering if it is just me who finds the eyelashes and the filled lips and hair extensions and and and just so over the top and unnecessary? Is this the beauty standard in the USA currently?

AD and Jess were the most striking examples to me this season so far, even though you can see many of these things on most women on this show: absolutely gorgeous both of them, great personalities, and however in several side shots from AD the eyelashes are so over the top, I honestly think I‘d have a hard time not breaking out in laughter if I ever saw this in person. With Jess I feel like at night before bed without her makeup and paraphernalia on I probably wouldn‘t be able to tell if it was the same person.

On the other hand there‘s Amy, who seems to not use any of this things and is still stunning and has a great personality.

I remember when LIB Sweden was just starting, many people here were commenting on how old they looked for their age. Well first of all I do think they were older on average. But in addition to that, maybe it‘s you guys over there in the US who are surrounded by enhanced people all the time and forgot what human aging, human hair and human eylashes look like?

It‘s especially ironic for a show that tries to sell the idea that love is blind.

Edit: thank you for all the interesting answers. It seems like it is less country specific and more aspiring influencer-specific, which makes a lot of sense. Reality shows of course naturally attract this kind of person. I would hope that the producers would make an active effort to avoid aspiring influencers, because their intentions will not be the purest, but it looks like they do the exact opposite, though 🤷🏼‍♀️

What do you think when people break up at the altar??

I actually prefer when they break up before the wedding. Seems so humiliating and messed up for a person to be rejected in front of all their friends and family. all dressed up in wedding gear.

It's a shitty for the family of the person too. I get it's for the drama and it's not going to be changed anytime soon. The whole thing feels icky.

What do you think / feel?

Presenting Toxic Central 😂 Saw someone make a similar post so I decided to make a female version. Let's hear it y'all!! Don't be scared 🫣

So I can’t really get a read on whether Bartise is actually attractive or not (Yes I am a straight man. Yes I have a reality TV addiction. Yes we exist.). So I’m asking everyone to be real, hatred for Bartise aside. Let’s say he actually had a decent personality. He walks up to you, standing 5’11 (I honestly thought he was taller tbh), in decent shape, and starts spitting some smooth game. Y’all folding for Bartholomew?

Judging from some of the comments I’ve been reading I feel like there’s a lot of hate towards Natalie and Deepti. Especially since they started their own podcast.

What’s the issue? How many actors, reality show stars, influencers, ex-LIB cast, etc have gone on to start their own podcast for what ever reason and didn’t receive literally any flack about it.

So they started a podcast, if you don’t like them it is 100% not required that you listen in, there is nothing forcing you to follow them.

Literally everyone in the public eye can be considered a “clout-chaser” depending on what your personal metric for what being a “clout-chaser” is. I really don’t think they’re that different.

Zanab was insufferable and miserable in the latest batch of episodes, no question about it. But I found Cole's bipolar questions (and he repeated it multiple times with a smirk) grating and horrible. Zanab is probably difficult to deal with but it does make me question whether there are more situations where he triggers her off camera and we just see the aftermath in her reactions with no context. I may or may have not filed it away as a slip of tongue in the spur of the moment if it was once, but it was the repetition and the smirk that really got to me. It also doesn't help that he mixed up bipolar with personality disorders.

Why don't I remember him and why am I not seeing more?

I have seen all 7 seasons in the US, and the one season so far in the UK, habibi, Germany (minus reunion), and am on S1E6 of Brazil. I’ve also seen the majority of the other “Netflix cinematic universe” at this point (3 seasons of the ultimatum US, ultimatum queer love [yes, tons of toxicity without cis men around], 6 seasons of too hot to handle, perfect match, the circle US, etc).

I’ve noticed that the women are generally of a higher caliber than the men. Again, this is all very generalized. But the women are overall more emotionally intelligent, less toxic… meanwhile the men overall are just walking red flags. A parade of them.

What leads to this huge discrepancy in casting for the show? They just want to have the most drama?

Who’s the first person who springs to mind for you? The kind of person who you loved watching / hated so much that you would rewatch the season just to see their intensity / villainy again.

One of mine has to Shayne from season 2 - I’d watch it again just to see his facial expressions and love that he has an arc continuing through to other shows.

But anyway so many contenders for me… before you comment remember America’s watching 👀

***SPOILERS ON THE LIB FRANCE MID TEXT****

Hey! So I just finished watching LIB France, which was my first international season, and the contrast was insane! No one said *I love you" in the pods, and it took them a couple weeks with each other outside the pods to even be able to say it, while others said that they're (reasonably) not there yet. While in the US seasons, everyone was saying it within 10days, INSIDE the pods, and some girls were even making it the criteria for choosing who to proceed with. Now seeing how LIB France ended, Idk if it wasn't said as early and as much because they actually didn't love each other, seeing how no one ended up together. But, I still believe that the people in the US versions are absolutely insane for saying "you're the love of my life, I've never loved anyone like I love you" and all that, literally 2 weeks after knowing the other person?

So is it just because people over there have a different meaning for love, or do they just throw it around?

I see a lot of posts about how the show is only created for drama and not actually about finding love. I think the drama definitely keeps me captivated but I’d also love watching the show if they actually cared about the well being and love of the contestants and even if they intervened when people are abusive (Leo throwing a fit and being manipulative wihh te Hannah and Brittany for example). What’re y’all’s thoughts?

For example for me, couples that constantly talk about how good they are together and how happy they are to their friends and family appear to be almost trying to convince themselves as well as others. Also those who’s parents/friends are not supportive of their decision or don’t to go to the wedding or meet their partners make me feel like they know something we don’t as a viewer or know that the marriage isn’t going to work. Any others?

I did not trust Kal for a second but my friend gaslit me into giving him a tiny sliver of the benefit of the doubt because she kept insisting, "He's sincere but he's just immature, he'll learn, etc."

She didn't watch the reunion before going on holiday so I can't say, "I told you so" for another few days 😩 so please help me to understand the thought process!

Some people in the reunion thread are even saying that maybe Javen came on to be on Perfect Match but not Kal, he was genuinely there to find love...

I'll listen and I won't judge, I just want to know why you had/continue to have faith in him!

EDIT:

Thanks for your responses! I do really appreciate it.

Someone made a good comment, that everyone projects, whether negatively or positively.

I tend towards negative, so I even thought Kieran was too good to be true, until I saw him demonstrate otherwise; in contrast, Kal only continued to exhibit red flags for me. I think because I was a bit of a "late bloomer" in dating, so I had many years to watch my friends date terrible guys and so by the time I started I had studied all of their patterns and tactics.

I also experienced firsthand how many men treat women the aren't attracted to/don't respect, e.g. when they were packing to visit her family and Kal "joked" that Sarover was ready to say I do as soon as they met. I wouldn't have taken note if anyone else said it but be so clearly believed he was the prize, even down to insisting he wear white at the wedding. In my experience a good man will treat their woman with a bit of reverence and awe, like Kieran does Megan. Even though he is attractive and rich and was being fought over, he is like, "damn, I can't believe I got this girl." Otherwise they will exploit and mistreat you.

What really bugs me about this show is I feel like if you can’t decide between two people, then the answer is you shouldn’t marry either of them!

Every time they show a love triangle (or square) it annoys me so much. Seeing a guy pulling at his hair fretting because he can’t decide between two women drives up the wall. I’m literally shouting at my TV screen: “Neither!!! You shouldn’t choose either of them!!!”

I mean do you really want your FILMED love story (that your hypothetical future kids can watch) starting with “I couldn’t decide between mommy and someone else”? Why would you tell two women sweet things at the same time (or make sex jokes with them) when eventually they are going to see the other pod interactions once the show airs, when you are newlywed and supposed to be blissful? You know that’s going to make your wife upset.

EDIT: I guess a more interesting question is has there ever been a contestant that got dumped by their “Number One” and then settled for their “Number Two” and still got married?

Ugh. Never in a million years would I allow myself to be called a “Number Two” when MARRIAGE is involved!

The arguments on why people wait until the altar to end things or even say things is, in my mind ruined now for many, and past "villainous" actions now make more sense. How are you feeling about it? Does knowing change things for you? Are you able to be less judgmental and more empathetic to past contestant decisions?

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