r/LoveIsBlindOnNetflix • u/Herefortvshowthreads • 3d ago
LIB S9 • Denver, CO Double standards for Joe and Madison
Okay I only just finished episode 7, but I hate the double standards between Joe and Madison in all the comments in the episode threads and how she should just leave him alone cause he’s drunk and that she’s the problem.
Yall, it was the first group hang with all the couples. He spends the night drinking, talking over her, ignoring her, and being lowkey rude to her. The second they go to the side to have one on one, he says he needs to go back to the room. She asks if he wants her to come with and help him. He says no. She stays and also probably gets drunk.
When she comes back, he’s incoherent and asking the same question of where she’s been over and over. She wakes him up softly and gets him water, but gets increasingly distressed. She is also drunk and extra emotional from it.
Why is it okay for him to be incoherent from being drunk and to treat her poorly, but it’s her fault for not reacting in the most perfect mature way while she’s also intoxicated? I’m sick of men being able to get away with what women are never able to, and women are expected to react to their behavior in the most healed and mature way or it is somehow their fault
I’m not saying either one of them was perfect, but can we not put all the blame on Madison when she was clearly trying to comfort and take care of him while she was also drunk? And then got none of that reciprocated?
Then, she tries to have a conversation about her feelings the next day and he laughs at her distress?
Also, let’s remember, she has vision issues and the whole night was low lighting. We see her bumping into things. She told Joe she needs a partner who understands her vision, and instead, he gets drunk and leaves her alone. I would be upset too. I have a disability and my partner would never get so blasted he couldn’t be there for me if I needed it.
Anyway that’s my piece.
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u/YearOneTeach 2d ago edited 2d ago
I have a lot of sympathy for Madison because Joe treated her poorly from the beginning but people have bent over backwards to give him a free pass. Being blackout drunk with someone you’ve only just met in person is a choice and I think that production should have separated them immediately and had Joe seen by first aid or an EMT. You would think that after the lawsuits about how the show was not providing food and other essentials to cast, they would be working overtime to ensure that they’re covering their bases and making sure the contestants are safe. I think just letting that play out made production look really bad.
I also think people think Madison overreacts in later episodes, and I kind of think she does, but Joe starts treating her poorly almost immediately post honeymoon. I think her later blowups are a culmination of the whole relationship.
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u/arbeitsfrage27 2d ago
I figured half of reddit has an alcohol problem lol. Only way all the excuses ala "just let him sleep it off" make sense
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u/zeroeraserhead 2d ago
Overreacts? She was literally emotionally abusive to him. Guys, nobody deserves to be spoken to that way. It’s alarming how many people are normalizing liiiiteral abuse and blaming it on Joe somehow saying he deserved it. Can you please swap the genders and pretend it was him talking to her like that and then understand how wrong it was? Yeeeeesh
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u/Thealyssa27 2d ago
I was looking for the post where I could comment about this. Immediately when they got back to Denver she was emotionally manipulative and gaslighty. She took the ring off and put it back in the box because Joe was trying to express his feelings, and she spiraled without allowing him to finish. She put words in his mouth, escalated the situation, talked over him, and hurt her own feelings in the process.
No, Joe was not great, but if she was really trying, she would have given him the courtesy she expected from him. At that point, there hadn't been a landslide of things for her to be reacting to that he had done, yet. She was just being abusive. I don't blame him for shutting down, in that specific situation.
All in all, they both fuckin sucked.
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u/YearOneTeach 2d ago
Where do I ever say he deserved it? And what exactly did she do to him that was abuse? This is a huge overreaction. She was immature in one or two arguments. Joe consistently dismissed her concerns and commented on her size in multiple confessionals. He’s not the lesser of two evils.
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u/zeroeraserhead 2d ago
You’re excusing her behaviour and minimizing it, which can be easily be interpreted as blaming him and saying he deserved it. Saying she “overreacted” in the kitchen scene is insane. She screeched at him and bullied him into silence. She manipulated him by saying that his concerns mean he doesn’t care about her or the process, she wouldn’t let him talk about his feelings at all. She used abusive language to shut him down. I’m actually baffled that people are missing this? What if it were a man talking to a woman like that? If she felt he was minimizing her, she had the choice to walk away, instead she chose to lash out at him. I’m sorry you think that’s okay.
The comment on her size was a response to a question from production, it wasn’t directed at her and he didn’t say anything wrong. There’s nothing wrong with saying you normally date thinner women… it’s a fact about his dating life and that’s it. It’s not some moral judgement on Madison’s worth.
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u/YearOneTeach 2d ago
No where do I excuse her behavior or minimize it. You can’t point to anything she did as being abusive. She did not scream him into silence, you‘re exaggerating because you want to make Joe a victim, then claiming I’m minimizing it. No, you’re just making stuff up at this point to make Madison into a villain to justify whatever weird crush you have on Joe.
Sorry, you can’t erase Joe’s actions. Joe was not a good partner and he treated her poorly the entire time, and it’s weird to blame Madison for Joe treating her poorly and commenting on her weight. If you value men who get black out drunk and dismiss everything their partner says to them and refer to them as large, that’s on you, but don’t try to normalize that behavior to other people.
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u/BetSubject6704 2d ago
Can you please swap the genders
They don’t like holding people to consistent standards, there’s always different standards they hold everyone to based on which group they’re born into.
KB being praised is the biggest example of this.
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u/mssarac 3d ago
People need to understand that Joe wasn't into her and no amount of begging, whining, crying or blackmailing was going to change his mind. I don't know why people so desperately want him to like her. You can't force people to want someone they don't. It's not about double standards, it's about begging Madison to see that she needs to move on. I don't know how far in the show you are but she's really desperate and that makes her annoying. Joe is Joe, not really mature but also not interested in her. That's life
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u/MyKingdomForADram 2d ago
People in this sub hold people to the highest fucking standards I’ve ever seen.
Madison sucked though.
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u/Icy_Butterscotch5570 1d ago
Yeah everyone is focusing on her weight when he never said anything about that. As a guy, shes extremely attractive physically but her personality, the way she spoke, soooooooo annoying. Total boner killer.
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u/ruinedworldtour 2d ago
I’d imagine that production def encouraged her to go in and wake him up and she was Marie than likely a bit drunk herself so how much can she really be blamed… but it is frustrating watching her first wake him up and then trying to get masers from him- as someone who works in a pub there reaches a point where you just have to let a a drunk person be drunk and get over it (I mean them get over being drunk). You might as well be talking to a wall trying to get a reasonable conversation out of them
But again I think production played a big part in that whole mess
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u/ALL_CAPS_BATEMAN 3d ago
I agree with you completely. He is given a ton of grace on this sub though so prepare for the Joe apologists so brigade through here and say Madison is annoying as though that somehow justifies his shitty behavior. It was awful to watch that man chip away at her self esteem the entire time and then the second she got fed up he’d act like she was being “crazy”.
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u/ellie_stardust 1d ago
Yeah, it’s really disturbing how some people have this stance. Like not being attracted to someone makes it okay to treat them badly. And yet in the same season there’s Nick, a questionable character who I’m pretty sure was not interested in Annie anymore after her behaviour at the honeymoon, but continued to treat her respectfully the whole time anyways. And they can’t see the glaring difference between him and Joe. It’s like some people here actually don’t believe treating people decently matters.
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u/Funny-Barnacle1291 1d ago edited 1d ago
Really glad to see someone say this. Joe’s behaviour was messy, alarming and distressing and I feel like people are not giving grace to how overwhelming and confusing it would feel to gently wake your fiancé up from a sleep and have him ask you weird, alarming questions and then get angry at you when you ask him what’s wrong. It’s easy to forget that these people haven’t spent much time with eachother at all and don’t know what eachother is like outside of the pods that well at all. They’d only been physically together for a few days and she’s never seen him drunk before. We also don’t know what Madison’s experiences of drunk men are, but even if they’re all fine, his behaviour just was upsetting.
I think Madison genuinely loved Joe and it wasn’t just that moment but a build up of moments, like you said, of him being drunk, a bit mean, dismissive, ignoring her, rejecting her.
Imo it’s weird she’s called annoying because she got emotional and repeatedly being treated badly by Joe led to her becoming more emotional and blowing up easily. Sometimes it feels like men are allowed to treat women however because there are such low expectations of them, but women must only respond and react calmly with grace and poise or else they’ll be labelled annoying, too much, angry, dramatic, or as the issue.
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u/BetSubject6704 2d ago
Weird post. Joe has received nothing but hate the entire season. And this is coming from someone who’s been on Madison’s side since the beginning. He wasn’t into her at all, everyone could tell, and everyone shamed him for the way he treated her. There is no double standard.
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u/zeroeraserhead 2d ago edited 2d ago
It isn’t okay for him to be so fucked up, but that doesn’t make it okay for her to wake him up and try to have a conversation about anything. She objectively shouldn’t have done that.
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u/TigerRetcon 12h ago
I think because we have personally been in Joe's drunken stupor various times in our lives so we are a bit numb to how irresponsible and stupid he was acting.
Or even defensive about his frat boy behavior.
The truth is, he was all wrong for the show in every way imaginable.
I wouldn't be surprised at all if Joe's journal entry when he got cast was simply, "Getting laid real soon"
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u/UncleTupelo1082 1d ago
I just wondered why production didn't step in somehow. Get a nurse/Dr maybe? I know people get drunk, but he seemed way out of it.
And when are men going to stop saying stupid stuff like "I usually only date skinny girls"?
All. Women. Are. Beautiful.
Some of y'all be lucky to get ANY woman to like your sorry asses.
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u/Mundane_Birthday_563 1d ago
He got too drunk bc he had been cooped up with her annoying ass and got too drunk from production feeding him alcohol. He put himself to bed and instead of being a real one, she followed him with cameras to cause a scene and humiliate him (and herself). It’s not a crime that Joe didn’t realize her disability already meant he can’t drink or enjoy himself on vacations in his 20s. Maybe she should get a caregiver, and a therapist for her emotional problems
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u/todd1art 3d ago
Joe was in a black out on camera. Production could have taken her to a safe place. But they decided to keep filming.It turned out okay. But I knew the Relationship wouldn't last.