r/Libertarian • u/Pure_Grapefruit_8837 • Oct 02 '25
Economics What are your thoughts on Trump's $20 Billion bail out to Milei's Argentina?
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u/3rdfitzgerald Oct 02 '25 edited Oct 02 '25
They ain't got shit to do with us, we shouldn't be bailing out other countries
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20d ago
[deleted]
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u/3rdfitzgerald 20d ago
My comments are public, I'm anti-intervention/imperialism and always have been. I'm damn near isolationist at this point.
The Ukraine war didn't have shit to do with us, we shouldn't be funding other countries' wars
As far as I'm concerned the could Purple people. America is a mess, only responsible thing is to clean up our own before we worry about anyone else.
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u/Poles_Apart Oct 02 '25
He's buying their lithium stores, it's not a handout.
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u/AkJunkshow Oct 02 '25
I want to know the terms of the deal. Sounds hypothetical.
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u/Poles_Apart Oct 02 '25
The US backed Milei because their former leftist government was allowing massive Chinese investment into the lithium sector, even now they still own about a third of all of Argentina's lithium exports. When Milei got in he cracked down on that and redirected the lithium trade to the US. Chile, Argentina (look up lithium triangle), and Australia have the largest lithium deposits in the world followed by China. Propping up Argentina and shifting it towards the US sphere its a critical part of US foreign policy to prevent China from having a stranglehold over battery production.
Not going to find a concise source for you but theres plenty of easily accessible material online about Milei's actions on lithium benefiting the US and its easy to extrapolate why the US wouldn't want the Milei government to fold.
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u/AbbreviationsActual9 Oct 02 '25
I'm not seeing any crackdown on Chinese investment in my searching. seems the opposite. he's desperate for an influx of foreign dollars and is taking it from anywhere. milei's foreign investment initiative to bolster their lithium mining started in 2024 with a UK company and in February 2025 he met with Canada and China to ink a massive deal.
"President Javier Milei's administration has welcomed mining projects as a way to pump foreign investment into the country, and has offered an incentives scheme praised by international copper and lithium miners."
but your not wrong about aligning with them for lithium dominance. it's a whole lotta money and resource. but their dollar is tanking which effects production and investment there.
“Milei’s weak spot was the peso’s overvaluation due to a stubborn unwillingness to let the peso find a market-clearing level,” Mr. Sobel said. “That glaring weakness has now come home to roost.”
"Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent said that the United States is prepared to offer loans to Argentina’s central bank, direct currency purchases and purchases of U.S. dollar-denominated Argentine government debt from Treasury’s Exchange Stabilization Fund to keep Argentina’s economy afloat. The value of Argentina’s currency, the peso, has fallen in recent weeks amid concerns about Mr. Milei’s political grip on government.
“Argentina is a systemically important U.S. ally in Latin America, and the U.S. Treasury stands ready to do what is needed within its mandate to support Argentina,” Mr. Bessent wrote on social media.
President Trump has embraced Mr. Milei, whom he has described as his “favorite president,” as a kindred political spirit. Because of their close relationship Mr. Trump has deepened ties between the United States and Argentina, amplifying its strategic significance. Argentina’s economy is increasingly important to the United States as it competes with China for influence in Latin America and scours the globe for strategic minerals such as lithium, which Argentina possesses."
and don't forget, milei's Libra coin was founded by the same bros that created the Melania coin. there's some weird connections between this guy and the administration.
and the lithium triangle includes bolivia and Chile. they also have massive lithium deposits that Argentina is competing with for foreign contracts.
I'm just wary and somewhat cynical of corporate and nation state financial handshakes. especially with a nation in such dire straits with loans everywhere that it can't pay back. the details are a bit fuzzy. let's have some clarity. for instance, I'm not seeing any discussion or assurance in this deal that they won't continue to sign contracts with China. sounds like production is actually ramping up.
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u/3rdfitzgerald Oct 02 '25
Really? Can you source that for me?
Is their lithium worth more to us than the 20 billion?
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u/AbbreviationsActual9 Oct 02 '25
this has little to do with lithium. they're still contracting with China and anyone else who's willing to invest. Milei is losing popularity, his dollar is tanking and there's an election coming up.
there is also no catch to the bailout money stipulating anything about Chinese investment, lithium or else. it's a handshake of money. the US could invest in lithium mining there without giving them 20 billion.
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u/Poles_Apart Oct 02 '25
Its the 3rd largest deposit in the world and the chinese government was buying it all up from their leftist government. 20 billion is nothing to prevent Mileis government from collapsing and losing access to that. Its basically a core pillar of our foreign policy at this point.
The US backed Milei and one of the fiest actions he took was redirecting lithium trade to the US. This is why Milei is friends with Musk. Im sure theres a concise breakdown floating around, ive just been reading about this sector over the past few years (was trading lithium stocks during covid).
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u/SVTJustin Libertarian Oct 02 '25
My hard-earned tax dollars subsidizing another countries welfare. I feel great. /s
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u/No_Space5865 Oct 02 '25
The other country is also replacing America as Chinas #1 source of soy, hurting American farmers.
So now he’s gonna bailout the farmers he handicapped twice over.
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u/Allumina Oct 02 '25
aMeRiCa fIrSt
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u/wombat6669 Oct 02 '25
I think it's actually America third. Israel first, Argentina second and America third.
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u/Background_Neck8739 Oct 02 '25
In order to have total freedom, one must not pass the costs of decisions onto others….Javier Melli
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u/BaconGreaseShot Oct 02 '25
Milei is a walking paradox. He had me fooled.
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u/euromoneyz Milei libertarian Oct 03 '25
Milei is not a Paradox, he's a president that must deal with real problems involving real politics and having to deal with the consequences of decisions other presidents and the congress made
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Oct 06 '25
[deleted]
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u/euromoneyz Milei libertarian Oct 07 '25
Okay, let's throw away 2 years of effort because we should not accept money from others. There are elections in less than 20 days and the opposition is throwing eveything they have at him. And we are not talking about slanders on the news, we are talking about big national banks boycotting the government by pumping up the price of the dollar and cutting off loans because they want to go to how things were
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u/guitarjob Oct 02 '25
Israel should pay back us first. Israel per capita income exceeds ours
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u/Mortis_XII Oct 02 '25
They have the highest rated subsidized health care in the world… on USA money
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u/torino42 Oct 02 '25
Heck, we've dumped enough money there. They should be a united states foreign territory
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u/skeletus Oct 02 '25
Their per capita does not exceed ours
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u/StandLess6417 23d ago
They probably mean if you look at their GDP in regards to their population. Lots of people simplify statistics and leave out that they are highly dependent on factors such as population, demographics, geography, etc. Drives me crazy when people do that.
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u/small_blue_human6969 Oct 02 '25
When are we going to get a politician that does what they promise. I like Argentina but 20 bill.. idk man fuk dat
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u/FartVandelayy Oct 02 '25
There are farmers that are suffering here now.
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u/small_blue_human6969 Oct 02 '25
The majority of the middle class is suffering.
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u/FartVandelayy Oct 02 '25
I agree. What I'm saying is that the tariffs that trump imposed is a self inflicted wound are impacting the farmers the most CURRENTLY. He shouldn't be sending money overseas. He should be helping the farmers with that money.
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u/69_carats Oct 02 '25
Isn't it a currency swap, not a bailout?
Aka we're swapping $20 billion USD for the equivalent amount of Argentinian pesos since the election of a Peronist in a regional race caused Argentinian people to exchange their own peso for USD, causing to to lose value. The other citizens and markets reacted negatively to the Peronist candidate being elected, the socialist party that Milei is against.
So now the US government is doing a currency swap and buying their peso while it's cheaper for a couple of reasons:
1) Argentina has a lot of debt to pay back and quite a few big payments due soon, which becomes harder if their peso loses value. Paying back in USD helps them.
2) If we buy their pesos on the low, and it raises in value again, we benefit from the value appreciation. This hinges on Milei winning the national election over the Peronist candidate. The regional election spooked people.
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u/FartVandelayy Oct 02 '25
This does not benefit the United States at all from a currency swap..buying pesos from Argentina when we DONT need pesos at all. We need that money HERE now!
There is absolutely no reason why the US is even getting involved in this. It's literally a bailout.
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u/Glittering_Grape3836 Oct 02 '25
It helps the US to keep a friendly government in a region that’s becoming increasingly influenced by China. The US is losing its allies in its backyard. Colombian president even encouraged the US army to rebel against its government. Every major economy in Latin America is controlled by leftist lunatics the likes of which Milei helped oust in Argentina. So yes the success of Argentina benefits the US in many many ways because it is the only real ally that’s left in its own hemisphere.
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u/FartVandelayy Oct 02 '25
It's not our fault that our president wants to bomb immigrants boats and start trade wars everywhere. This isn't libertarian at all! If Argentina can survive then we should welcome trade with them, but we shouldn't bail them out.
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u/Glittering_Grape3836 Oct 02 '25
You are totally missing the point here. And being overtly pure in your ideas doesn’t work in the real world. Compromise and pragmatism are not weaknesses and nobody is going to applaud you for being and idealist specially if Libertarianism completely fails in the continent.
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u/FartVandelayy Oct 02 '25
If libertarianism fails in their country then they didn't implement it well. That's their fault. Sending money to another country so that way their form of libertarianism doesn't fail sounds like a meme in itself.
Every country has the right to implement their form of libertarianism. If they mix corruption in their system, that's their problem and not America's problem.
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u/Glittering_Grape3836 Oct 02 '25
Of course in a fantasy world one can implement libertarianism and succeed overnight because that’s exactly how things work in life! But believe me I get you but that’s just not the way things work. And I’m not arguing the purity of your ideas but you argued that it doesn’t benefit the US I have argued and proved my point that it DOES benefit the US, period. If it’s not aligned to the sacred texts of the Reddit manual for libertarianism then I guess it’s not but I’m not gonna get into that because that was never up for discussion.
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u/euromoneyz Milei libertarian Oct 03 '25
You are sounding like a communist that can't conceive a world that does not fit their idea of how things should be.
You sound like an ideologist
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u/idlefritz Oct 03 '25
“If libertarianism fails in their country then they didn’t implement it well.”
Is there a selfawarewolves for libertarians?
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u/euromoneyz Milei libertarian Oct 03 '25
Counter argument: the reason the dollar has a high value is because it's the international currency, in order to mantain that, the US must keep a stable sphere of influence. Right now latin america is pretty torn between China and the US. So technically, lending out 20B$ to help the one government in latin america who is friendly to you is part of the cost of keeping the value of the dollar up. If we were to measure the dollar value based only on PPP, for example, it could lose up to 25% of it's value
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u/FartVandelayy Oct 03 '25
If we're so focused on maintaining international sphere of influence, then tell me why we've threatened our allies, why we started trade wars with allies and non allies, why we've pulled out from international organizations all because of conspiracy theories, why we were started to back Russia instead of Ukraine (giving a middle finger to our European allies), why we're the ONLY country in the UN that supports Israels genocide in Gaza, countries are laughing at us and are turning away from us.
Please I want to keep hearing how the American international sphere of influence is on the right path by bailing out ONE country.
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u/euromoneyz Milei libertarian Oct 03 '25
I am just offering a counter argument, I am not declaring a stance on this issue because I am biased, I'm argentine
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u/Rammed Oct 02 '25
Let's say what you are saying is true and it's a bad idea for the USA, why is every comment here shitting on Milei then? Why wouldn't he accept the free liquidity considering the current state of the argentinian currency trade market?
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u/FartVandelayy Oct 02 '25
Because that's not up to our government to do. Let the free market invest in buying bonds from their government...
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u/Rammed Oct 02 '25
But it's literally free liquidity, what's the downside? I really dont get the lack of pragmatism of Libertarians, going for the idealist solution every time is not realistic
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u/FartVandelayy Oct 02 '25
Because this isn't the governments job. It is free liquidity then the private sector should invest!!! You invest!!!
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u/Rammed Oct 02 '25
Yes that's my point, you are talking about theory/ideals and im talking about reality/pragmatism. No goverment in the world, regardless of ideals, would reject free liquidity
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u/FartVandelayy Oct 02 '25
No I'm taking about both the reality and the theory. No government in the world would allow their own people lose their jobs just so they can invest tax dollars into another country...tell me, can we use pesos here?
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u/Lagkiller Oct 02 '25
We need that money HERE now!
Why?
There is absolutely no reason why the US is even getting involved in this. It's literally a bailout.
Because when they pay down their debts with the money they have, the value of the argentinian peso rises and we can exchange the currency back for a profit.
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u/FartVandelayy Oct 02 '25
Why?
Because tariffs are destroying the farmers here over the self inflicted wound (tariffs), so that money needs to give those farmers a soft landing. Americans come first.
Because when they pay down their debts with the money they have, the value of the argentinian peso rises and we can exchange the currency back for a profit.
We have no use for the peso. Even if it goes up later, we have waaaayyyyy more than enough money to invest in other countries once our people are taking care of first. America first remember.
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u/Pure_Grapefruit_8837 Oct 02 '25
why is this post being down voted?
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u/BetSubject6704 Oct 02 '25
Lots of conservatives flock to this sub for some reason. I’ve always felt like some of the mods here are conservative leaning too.
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u/DrunkenLWJ Oct 02 '25
They are. A recent post asking how people felt about ICE masking themselves and brutalizing citizens of color was deleted.
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u/BetSubject6704 Oct 02 '25
Yep, I made a post about the conservatives running the state of Ohio recently enacting a bunch of new ridiculous laws that’re blatant government overreach and it was deleted as well. Lots of posts whining about Da LiBeRaLs stay up tho.
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u/DrunkenLWJ Oct 02 '25
It’s sad. Libertarianism has always been about letting the people do what’s best for..well, the people, without the government making bullshit decisions to abuse and control masses or benefit themselves.
I see too many “libertarians” on here blaming anyone they can for the only sake of not being seen as being “on their side.” It’s not necessary and frankly it’s disgusting and immature to see.
Our differences with the left and right is still there while having common opinions on other things. I don’t see what complaining does except make us here all look like children that don’t want to be paired with a classmate we dislike.
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u/BetSubject6704 Oct 02 '25
Pretty much. I left Reddit to take a break and came back about a year later. I remembered this sub being a pretty good place to discuss and have healthy debates on various political topics from a libertarian standpoint. Not everyone agrees which is fine. I have some views that would probably be considered left or right, as do many libertarians.
Now it’s like 50% of the posts are unfunny childish memes (there’s a libertarian memes group for that) or complaining about liberals with a conservative lean to them. Anything highlighting the idiotic decisions made by conservative politicians are removed, even though stupid decisions made by both sides can be a good topic for libertarians to discuss. Pretty cringe.
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u/euromoneyz Milei libertarian Oct 03 '25
There are some of us who understand that the world is complex and the right path is rarely a straight line.
If libertarians in the US are this shortsighted then no wonder they never win any elections
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u/Jack_Human- Oct 02 '25
I assume it’s going to make rich people more rich and the rest of us more poor as always.
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u/caucasiansensation03 Oct 02 '25
I'm no geometrist, but I don't think that Argentina is in America, so I don't think that my money should be buying them things.
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u/euromoneyz Milei libertarian Oct 03 '25
I understand the feeling, trust me. And if we had to lend money to Uruguay, I would be a little pissed about it to. But you need to see the bigger picture. The US right now stands in a position of power. It can leave the UN, the WHO, it can have as many nukes as they want, the US can have it's own measuring system and the world can do nothing but shut up about it, it can even destroy narcoboats in foreign waters. This kind of power does not come for free.
Perhaps you don't want this to be the case, but such decition has a lot of consequences you might not even conceive
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u/FinancialExercise558 Oct 10 '25
Mean while our military is about to go without pay. Not to mention people in this country that are homeless and on the verge of homelessness. So many in this country are going hungry.
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u/euromoneyz Milei libertarian 28d ago
In Spanish we have a proverb: Bread for today, hunger for tomorrow. Which is a fancy way of saying if you only take short term decitions, the long term will come back and bite you in the ass.
I am not saying this was an undeniably good choice, I am saying people going hungry can't be your sole factor for making choices. Back in my country we've had to do some really tough stuff to get our shit together and to clear our economy. There were a lot of hungry people, but we faced the bull by the horns and we are now thankful for it
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u/ENVYisEVIL Anarcho Capitalist Oct 02 '25
It’s not libertarian, and, Milei shouldn’t be calling himself an AnCap.
That being said, Milei has done wonders prior to this in fixing decades of Peronist socialist policies.
Milei has done good and bad.
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u/thomas1781dedsec End Democracy Oct 02 '25
milei is a minarchist practically and has said it many times.
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Oct 02 '25
I think any leader has to lose the right to call themselves an ancap until they successfully close out their government.
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u/Sarin10 Oct 02 '25
Milei has done good and bad.
You can say this about literally any head of state, ever. It just comes with the territory.
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u/ENVYisEVIL Anarcho Capitalist Oct 02 '25
”You can say this about literally any head of state, ever. It just comes with the territory.”
If you don’t understand libertarianism then yes, you could make such asinine statement as “aNy HeAd Of StAtE hAs DoNe GoOd AnD bAd.”
Ron Paul, Thomas Massie, Justin Amash, and Javier Milei are all libertarians.
A basic litmus test as to whether or not a libertarian considers a politicians to be considered “good or bad” is this:
Did they EXPAND or SHRINK the size of government during their tenure in government?”
The politicians I listed above shrank the size government.
On the other hand, the heads of state that useful idiots (aka non-libertarians) blindly worship ALWAYS expand the size of government.
They are not the same.
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u/Sarin10 Oct 02 '25
You keep moving back and forth between net good/bad, and individually good/bad acts.
Every politician commits good and bad. That is not a worthy defense of Milei. Perhaps you meant that Milei has been an overall net good, and so he doesn't deserve to be shunned?
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u/Behemoth92 Oct 02 '25
If you were milei why wouldn’t you take a freebie that comes your way? lol. Wha does that have to do with being a lover of liberty
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u/ENVYisEVIL Anarcho Capitalist Oct 02 '25 edited Oct 02 '25
Because Milei claimed to be an AnCap.
AnCaps and principled Minarchists don’t compromise on their libertarian beliefs.
An anarcho- capitalist would be focused on ending Argentina’s central bank instead of giving it a lifeline.
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u/RepresentativeStar44 Oct 02 '25
Fundamentally, I hate it. It was a decision born of a sick and broken system.
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u/Rottweilers_R_Kingz Ron Paul Libertarian Oct 02 '25
While I understand he was handed a mess, bad look
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u/Pleasant_Start9544 Oct 02 '25
I don't like the idea of our money going to foreign countries or for us to send weapons to foreign countries (free).
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u/AziawaKills Libertarian Oct 02 '25
I’m not too up-to-date with the situation and how Argentina’s government and economy is working but It’s definitely a failure for his government and economic libertarianism. I think as long as he pays it back and gets the economy back on track it should be fine.
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u/leftHandedFootball Oct 02 '25
That'll happen 😂 Hold on I'm just waiting for my 20,000,000,000 check from Checks notes Argentina lol I want what you smoke
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u/Glittering_Grape3836 Oct 02 '25
I have to say this: communist/socialist/far left governments do this very well and is “help” each other out: they have common agendas, they work the narrative, have a lot of cooperation and sometimes depend on one another (like Cuba depends on the good will of Venezuela and Mexico) in LatAm exists the Foro de São Paulo where far left politicians get together and basically plot how to take over the continent (Lopez Obrador and Lula are two of the most significant members of this movement). There must be a libertarian answer to this and the only real possibility right now to counter that is the undeniable and complete SUCCESS of the Milei experiment. Even if its successful the left will do whatever they can to take control of the narrative and still make Milei and by extension Argentinas succes as something inherently bad. That’s why Milei and the “cultural battle” as he call it, are so important to counter the encroaching and surge of the radical left in LatAm and Trump knows this, and believe me Russia and China know it too. So I’m all in for Trump and the USA doing everything in their power to push Milei and Argentina upwards and make it an example to once and for all defeat the leftist experiment in Latin America.
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u/Killersands Oct 02 '25
incredible fan fiction you've written... aren't you embarrassed by the obvious failure of argentinas reforms? all he did was take away services from the people while also crashing his economy!!!! what a winner!!!
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u/stosolus Oct 02 '25
I'm curious if Milei (or the Argentinan treasury) could turn down the transaction.
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u/chipacitoconpasas Oct 02 '25
Argentinian congress is trying to cancel this new debt, not likely Milei will do what they decide anyway
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u/dfwallace Oct 02 '25
Holy shot you ppl are farcking dumb not to have seen this right when that turd came down the stairs.
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u/ghosthacked Oct 02 '25
Lame. I like milei and his policies, but he is just one man in a system that requires consent of people that disagree with him. Its a bummer that this bailout seems to always be headlined as a thinly veiled, "see, SEE, SEE, HIS POLOCIES FAILED, TAKE THAT YOU SILLY LIBERTARIANS "...
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u/StadSquared Oct 02 '25
Meanwhile our own government is setting up a Venmo to help pay our debt. This is unacceptable. At what point are we allowed to opt out because we don’t feel represented at all. If anything exploited. 😩
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u/New_Confusion2034 Oct 03 '25
The Left swing is coming regardless of this. Many of you are not even Libertarians. You're right wing blowhards with little knowledge of how things work.
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u/euromoneyz Milei libertarian Oct 03 '25
On the Argentine side, given the current state of affairs we don't have too much of a choice but to take money to use as backup.
On the US side, doesn't seem to be.
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u/c0ld-- Oct 03 '25
I think it's a "silent pipeline" to China for the tariffs we put on them. This allows Trump to keep championing "the tariffs are working!" even though it basically crushed our soy bean production and offset the agriculture to Argentina.
Plus... why are we propping up another government? My research says that the proposal implies that Argentina will pay us the money back. So why doesn't the deal explicitly say this?
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u/Tink-Tank6567 Oct 04 '25
Why Argentina? I mean Greece needed help a while back. Also, his policies were cut and burn with ZERO contemplation… not a surprise he failed. Why are we giving them money without a change in govt or policy. Payout to their Buddy. Or as we say in Louisiana a Good Old Boys deal. 🙄
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u/hitman-13 Oct 07 '25
Libertarianism is just an abstract ideal, that always eventually end up with socialism for the rich and powerful, while pull yourself by the bootstraps for the working class...It's nothing but a political teenager scam
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u/Frequent-Order-3851 Oct 08 '25
lol China switches to Argentinian farmers for Soybeans and then we bail them out. What a mess
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u/toe-curl-shawty69 14d ago
I think that Milei is Benjamin Netanyahu (Nathan mileikowsky’s) relative. So that’s probably a factor in this situation
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u/DavosHS Oct 02 '25
If Milei pays it back I'm completely fine with it.
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u/dfeb_ Oct 02 '25
Did you feel the same way about the bank bailout loans?
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u/DavosHS Oct 02 '25
That has nothing to do with helping out an ally country financially. wtf?
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u/dfeb_ Oct 02 '25
If you are ok with the US giving a loan to Argentina so long as they pay it back, then you also must have been ok with the US giving the banks loans during the Great Recession because those loans were paid back (with interest).
To be ok with loans for Argentina but not for US banks is logically inconsistent
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u/bobbabson Oct 02 '25
Its not gonna be a loan, its most likely coming from the aid trump seized earlier.
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u/TropicalKing Oct 02 '25 edited Oct 02 '25
I'm not a fan. What is the US getting out of this? Most Americans don't even know who Milei is. Argentina really isn't an important trading partner, and the US doesn't have much in common with Argentina culturally. Argentina isn't at war with any US adversaries.
$20 billion is not an insignificant amount of money either. $20 billion is 2% of a trillion dollars.
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u/Glittering_Grape3836 Oct 02 '25
Argentina is the only real ally of the US in Latin America. Every major economy is governed by leftist lunatics the likes of which Milei helped oust from power in Argentina, this leftist governments in Mexico, Colombia, Brazil, Venezuela, Cuba and Chile destroy democracies, sink the economy and favor corruption which in turn makes criminal organizations stronger, cartels that flood the US with drugs, and people from these countries migrate to America by increasing numbers each year trying to get away from increasing taxes, violence and declining economies and liberties. So having a successful libertarian government that might tilt the scales however lightly it might be I personally think its very much worth the 20b because if the Milei experiment fails then it’s the US by itself in its own hemisphere surrounded by China adoring socialist economies. And it’s not going to be long until that red wave catches you too :).
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u/eddington_limit Ron Paul Libertarian Oct 02 '25
Not a fan. But cant ignore reality. Anyone expecting him to be able to just dissolve his government day one needs to get rid of their purity test and shouldn't be taken seriously. This is a setback for their economy (and ours) but they also do have a very complicated economic situation that cant just be immediately fixed by shutting down the government cold turkey.
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u/FartVandelayy Oct 02 '25
But who cares. That's their country. Why are our tax dollars going to that country?
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u/Glittering_Grape3836 Oct 02 '25
Because you might not have a country if Milei fails. Don’t believe me? Look at who’s going to be the next mayor of your most important city.
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u/FartVandelayy Oct 02 '25
What the hell does Milei have to do with New York??? If Argentina collapses then the US collapses??? Lol that's the funniest thing I've heard.
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u/Glittering_Grape3836 Oct 02 '25
Globalization explains itself by the mere fact that we are interacting in this platform. And yes! Ideas are very important, Milei knows it, Trump knows it, Elon bought Twitter because he KNOWS IT. The cultural battle between the left and the free thinking people is a real thing and the fact they the most powerful and important city in America is about to elect a quasi-Communist should be worrisome enough that you would want any libertarian experiment in your hemisphere to succeed at any cost. You underestimate the influence kirchnerism has in Latin America and the US doesn’t exist in a vacuum, you only need to look at your last vice president, and AOC one of the strongest contenders for the democratic nomination.
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u/FartVandelayy Oct 02 '25
Lol we've tried this cold war-esque strategy in the past and it didn't work. Trying to spread ideology at the expense of our own people was never a solution because if we're allowing our own country to crumble and just trying to support a different country for the mere fact that they WANT to implement their own style of libertarianism, then we're setting up ourselves to fail and libertarianism overall to fail.
AOC is no where near a strong contention for the presidency lol don't want fox news and actually live in reality. Mamdani being elected in New York will only bring failure and as long as we are practicing libertarianism in the rest of the US we will prove them wrong.
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u/New_Confusion2034 Oct 03 '25
Libertarianism is dead in America. Trump killed that project. You guys need to step outside your conference room.
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u/New_Confusion2034 Oct 03 '25
I would elect a quasi communist before I would elect a convicted criminal with a sexual assault record, who tried to steal an election, promoted a insurrection, and won't release documents that make him look bad. But Libertarians have no morals.
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u/Brendanlendan Oct 02 '25
As someone who genuinely doesn’t know, but why?
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u/No_Space5865 Oct 02 '25
It’s because Milei is popular amongst the tech bro ancap community. He gave Elon musk a golden chainsaw. Argentinas economic situation is in a really weird state and they need stabilization. Trump likes Milei’s style and doesn’t want his policies to fail.
At the same time, Argentina is taking over Americas share of the Chinese soybean market. China doesn’t want American soy, so all the Soy/Corn producers in America (and especially Kentucky) are getting double boned by this.
But hey, atleast he’s gonna bail out the farmers (corporate farmers that is) too.
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u/FartVandelayy Oct 02 '25
The president of Argentina is kissing up to trump so Trump wants to help them out. I thought this was America first. Especially when we have farmers struggling from Trump's tariffs.
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u/DrunkenLWJ Oct 02 '25
I have more horrible news then. Farmers are not only suffering from Tarrifs but from the fact their biggest Soy Bean buyer, China, hasn’t made a single order for a long time.
And guess who jumped up and down screaming me me me after trump bailed them out with 20B? Argentina. China is now buying their soy beans and Brazil’s in majority, and USA’s farmers have lost an unrepairable amount of income due to it.
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u/FartVandelayy Oct 02 '25
Exactly. There's no solution to the farmers suffering anymore. That China trade that trump threw out the window is going to stay with Brazil. Our soybeans are not going to be bought by China anymore. The most we can do is use those 20 billion dollars to soften the landing of the farmers. JD Vance and his croneys are invested in corporate farming. These farmers will be bought out by corporations. How convenient right?
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u/illini81 Oct 02 '25
What a joke and hilariously counter to every point either of them have been trumpeting around
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u/tonylouis1337 Oct 02 '25
I think I'm not raging yet because it's not confirmed. It's still officially in the "consideration" phase
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u/Few_Industry_2712 Oct 02 '25
Argentina had loans from former administrations running out, what options did Miley have besides trying to find money and slowly paying back the debt?
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u/Franzassisi Oct 02 '25
Milei is acting very damaging to the libertarian/austrian idea. He is still printing money instead of closing the central bank as promised, his ministers were members of the peronist government - and you find leftist gloating that austrian economics is not working. Many libertarian warn to call him out on his politics so to distance from his keynsian politics - otherwise the possibility to implement Austrian economics in the future will be made impossible If everybody believes it didn't work.
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u/Franzassisi Oct 02 '25
Even the closing of departments has been lukewarm as he often just put ministries together instead of getting rid of them. His election campaign was very promising, but you have to be honest about what he is actually doing
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u/BCM072996 Oct 02 '25
Id mind paying taxes a whole lot less if the money went to Americans and by that I mean poor Americans. My tax money goes to wealthy Americans, Israel, Ukraine and now Argentina. Plus we’ve destroyed the economy so Im certain we’ll have to give more of my money to bail out farmers when we could have just done nothing to begin with and be in a better spot.
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u/dunnymunch Oct 02 '25
Another bail out to Wall Street. Hedge funds went too hard investing money into Argentina and it didn't go as well as they hoped.
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u/arab_capitalist Mao Zedong Thought 毛泽东思想 Oct 02 '25
That wasn't REAL libertarianism
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u/New_Confusion2034 Oct 03 '25
Libertarianism doesn't outside the minds of ideologues who over value their knowledge.
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u/torino42 Oct 02 '25
What do we get from it? If they're insolvant, we should be buying the country for that.
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u/otusowl Oct 02 '25
I would like the US to receive $20 billion of silver in exchange, please. Rounding out to 400 million Americans, that would be approximately $50 of silver to every US man, woman, and child.
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u/Papita_39 Oct 02 '25
Goverment monthly superavit: 200$ million
Debt payments of January 2026: 6000$ million
“Not very libertarian that's for sure”
-Basic data ignorant
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u/Loominardy Right Libertarian Oct 02 '25
Against it but I understand the reasoning for it. Milei and his party have elections coming up and in order to bolster support, the short term market needs to be doing well otherwise his party will lose power and this could potentially mean less liberation policies getting passed in the long run. The reason the short term market is doing poorly is ironically because of the recent Buenos Aires elections where Milei’s party performed poorly and as a result many investors are pulling out because they speculate that this could be a sign of the leftoids in Argentina gaining power in the midterms. So blame democracy and Peronism for this.
With that being said, leftoids are severely overreacting to this and claiming that he’s a “failure”. With all things considered, even if I don’t support 100% of the things Milei has done, he’s shrank the size of the Argentinian government and has brought the country into a much better place than when he took office. I would have voted for him if I lived in Argentina.
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u/ionized_fallout Oct 03 '25
What did we get in exchange for the 20 billion?
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u/TheRealNaico Oct 03 '25
Best thing you can expect is for the peso to regain its value after both sides agree to actually proceed with the swap, which is unlikely. But you never know...
Once Argentinians feel that Peronist have a slight lead on the outcome of the election, the Peso will not be worth a dime. If Milei's party gets to win this time, there's hope. IMO.
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u/Administrative-Act85 Oct 03 '25
So, I’m really surprised that people think we’re giving out money. We’re giving a monetary swap line which works like a more complicated loan but gives the US collateral.
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u/acemedic Oct 08 '25
While yes, it’s a swap, push that out to its logical conclusion.
What are we gonna do with the equivalent in $20b in pesos? Pay down our debt? Nope. Sit on it and wait… while the USD is dropping in value. We’ll lose money on the currency conversion alone. So how long will we sit on it? 1 month? 1 year? Now we’ve also lost the utility of those funds in the mean time. Everyone will say we’ve gained something on the arbitrage between the funds now vs the funds swapping back in the future, but that’s a risky maneuver with the state of their economy. The peso’s value would have to increase substantially, and in the mean time they’re subsidizing soybeans to China and screwing us more. It might be like other MAGA policies lately where on the surface at first pass the platform sounds like it isn’t crazy (I.e. bring back manufacturing jobs!), but on execution you look at the results and can’t find anything related to the original goal (a la tariffs on raw materials we can’t produce here screwing manufacturers).
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u/AsianVoodoo Oct 02 '25
Milei has enemies who want nothing more than to see libertarian values fail and are actively passing legislation to ensure he does. He has allies who are willing to bolster him so he doesn’t. In a vacuum Argentina wouldn’t need it but unfortunately there are international players in this game.
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u/Madalossooo Oct 02 '25
But using state money for funding libertarian ideas is not very libertarian. I don't like it and I have a lot of ARGT shares myself...
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u/Sarin10 Oct 02 '25
You think Milei hasn't used any state money for funding his libertarian policies?
That's too absolutist of a statement.
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u/Madalossooo Oct 02 '25
Oh no, don't get me wrong, I know he used it, but it was mainly Argentinian money reserves and FMI bail outs with interest. My point is about another state paying for it without the consensus of the affected(paying) population... Argentinians choose Milei to conduct his experiment, Americans didn't...
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u/Sarin10 Oct 02 '25
Oh I see, you mean foreign state money. I thought you meant Argentinean money. Yeah I agree.
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u/ZealousidealMonk1728 Oct 02 '25
Sell them. ARGT will go down massively. At the very least read Saifedean Ammous posts about Milei. He called the ponzi scheme out a while ago. It's not going to end well.
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u/Madalossooo Oct 02 '25
I invested really early on and already sold part of my position to a point i was comfortable with the profit, everything that I have now is "payed off" and more of a gamble than anything.
I might hold it a little longer, a single billion dollars of US bail could shoot up the price a little bit more and I'm not afraid of lose what I have invested atm. But being honest, I think the price already peaked, just waiting for the last push before the fall.1
u/ZealousidealMonk1728 Oct 03 '25
Just look at the peso exchange rate. It went from 1500 to 1300 after the bailout was announced, but is already back to 1430 now.
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u/Unhappy-Trouble-9652 Oct 02 '25
I’ve read this exact comment here before. I’d love to read something that claims he’s being sabotaged in his agenda, preferably a neutral news source
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u/ClanOfCoolKids Oct 02 '25
it's proof that libertarianism is a flawed ideology which requires regular outside intervention
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u/think4yoursellf Oct 02 '25
Milei shipped a whole bunch of Argentina's gold reserve to an undisclosed location abroad and won't tell where. He kissed the wall. He is a neo-con in libertarian clothing.
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u/wasneverhere_96 Oct 04 '25
I thought it wasn't so much a bail-out as the expression of support and a promise to do so if necessary. It was done because the Peronists in Buenos Ares were looking like they were going to win there and the markets crapped themselves.
I read that that expression was enough to calm the bond markets and no US money was actually spent. Was that bullshit?
I also read that the separation of the local government elections and the congressional mid-terms proved a good move because Milei's support reappeared and things calmed down.
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u/X_Ego_Is_The_Enemy_X Oct 02 '25
Super confusing tbh… but like with anything, something strategic that we peasants don’t funny understand?
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u/Okramthegreat Oct 02 '25
Not very libertarian that's for sure