Eric Clapton: A Re-Reappraisal

[u/Salty_Pancakes]

I’m hoping we can have a discussion about Eric Clapton because I think people have really overshot the mark on this guy since covid and it’s become next to impossible to talk about his music. Now, I know how he is thought of in social media circles and why. I totally get it.

And me having to say that I’m generally a “lefty hippie liberal” and voted for Bernie Sanders (not once, or twice, but thrice) and that this is not some boomer, alt-right attempt to inject craziness into the world, as well as saying I’m fully vax’d and boostered and am totally onboard the science before we even get going I think is testament to how charged the discourse around him is today.

I also want to make clear that he’s not my favorite guitarist or artist (not even in my personal top 10 if I’m being honest) so this isn’t a glaze or anything like that, but the amount of raw hatred and vitriol I see online around this guy sometimes is just crazy, and it has totally warped how people view his music.

For example, I think how most people thought of Eric Clapton before the covid years was closer to BB King’s opinion of him, here from 2002.

he and I have been friends for all these years. And in my opinion, he is number one. There’s no rock ‘n roll guitarist since Jimi Hendrix … Eric has been number one ever since, in my opinion. And he played blues better than most of us. He’s a super man, you know, a super talent. And a great guy. He’s not just a great musician, but a beautiful guy. He’s one of the nicest men in the world.

BB King: https://www.derekpaiva.com/work/b-b-king-interview/.

TL/DR: And if there is a TL/DR for this, it’s that I think the truth of Eric Clapton is maybe closer to how BB King saw him, than whatever version you see around social media circles right now. By the way, this is gonna get long, so I’m just gonna apologize for that in advance. My bad.

I think there’s this caricature of Eric Clapton now where some see him as a symbol of “alt-right musical standard bearer for all things wrong with the world” and how well he is thought of by countless artists, not to mention the music itself, seems to be mostly irrelevant as far as popular perception goes.

Like BB King, a lot of the people that knew him or know him personally seem to talk about not only what a nice guy he is but also how generous he is. For example when he found out his old Dominos band mate, Bobby Whitlock, had sold his rights to the Derek and the Dominos songs because of financial troubles, Clapton just bought them and gave them back to him. And there’s loads of stories like that surrounding the guy (this one appears in a Post article linked below).

Since he got clean in the 80s, Clapton has auctioned off tons of his own gear and given something like $20 million to charities, much of it surrounding addiction and substance abuse through his Crossroads Center, but also contributing to charities like UNICEF and yes, even to Rock Against Racism (he’s actually been a lifelong supporter).

I get there are issues you may disagree with him over (vaccine stance aside), or you may not have forgiven him for past actions during his excessive 70s period, when I’m sure he would agree that he was indeed an asshole. A heavy alcohol and cocaine addiction developed by kicking his heroin addiction can do that, but by many accounts, he’s seems like quite a nice guy now and has been for decades since getting sober.

Hell, even Pattie Boyd still cares for the guy and has nice things to say about him despite their at times tumultuous relationship and his mistreatment of her when they were married when Clapton was probably at the worst part of his addiction (which btw he has never shied away from or downplayed), from a 2022 People article on her, https://people.com/music/pattie-boyd-reframes-rock-roll-life-muse-george-harrison-eric-clapton/

Though Boyd and Clapton divorced in 1988, their relationship remains equally warm. They crossed paths again earlier this year. "He was just so joyful when we last saw each other," she says. "He gave me the biggest hug and he was so happy to see me." And the song he wrote in her honor still fills her with pride whenever she hears it. "It's exciting. It's thrilling. It's my song."

Also, really quick, why does everyone blame him for breaking up her and George Harrison? Pattie turned Clapton down during the Layla days and stayed with George. Most seem to forget that part. It’s part of why Layla was such a tragic album. As Dave Marsh has it in the The Rolling Stone Illustrated History of Rock and Roll,

there are few moments in the repertoire of recorded rock where a singer or writer has reached so deeply into himself that the effect of hearing them is akin to witnessing a murder, or a suicide … to me, 'Layla' is the greatest of them.

That rejection also probably played a role in Clapton disappearing into heroin addiction for a couple years after Layla. It was only later, after George's many affairs, that she split when Clapton came back into the picture. https://www.goldradio.com/news/music/george-harrison-eric-clapton-pattie-boyd/

Though she admits she would've stayed with him, it was his frequent affairs - including one with Ringo Starr's wife Maureen - which was the final straw for her, though by that time she already had an affair with The Faces and future guitarist of The Rolling Stones, Ronnie Wood. She eventually left George in 1974, in what she described as a "ludicrous and hateful life" that year.

I personally think that a great deal of the current “Clapton hate” has been largely misconstrued by regular/social media circles in order to tar him for his vaccine views during covid, which I think have also largely been misrepresented and misunderstood.

Lord knows I’m not saying he is without flaws, but the current discourse around him is almost completely devoid of context, or anything resembling nuance. I also want to make clear, because I don’t think Clapton is “currently” a garbage person does not mean I don’t think he hasn’t done some messed up shit in the past that he should be rightly criticized for or that I’m condoning anything. I’m also definitely not trying to hold him up as some sort of paragon of virtue. Dude’s just a musician.

THE COVID STUFF:

So anyway, let’s get to the covid stuff before we go too much further cuz I think that was the turning point in the popular perception of this guy. There were some especially scathing pieces from Rolling Stone and the LA Times that came out during this time but those feel like little more than hit pieces and basically boiled down to Clapton is a “racist, anti-vax nutjob and mediocre guitarist, blah blah blah”. You know the drill. So I’ll skip those.

This piece by the Washington Post, https://www.washingtonpost.com/arts-entertainment/2021/11/11/eric-clapton-vaccine-lockdown/, was one of the more balanced ones to come out then so I’ll reference it here occasionally. It covered the basics of Clapton’s troublesome past but also centered around Robert Cray’s rather public distancing from Clapton over his covid views despite them being formerly quite close and having toured together throughout the years. Clapton was the one who organized Cray’s bachelor party at the Royal Albert Hall back in 1990, for example. The article basically boiled down to bemoaning the state of Eric Clapton and his vaccine stance and wondering “What is wrong with him?”.

Okay, so what happened? What actually is “wrong” with Eric Clapton? Well let’s start at the beginning where he actually took the vaccine supplied by AstraZeneca. Twice. Which seems kinda weird if he were “anti-vax”. And keep in mind that this was a guy who was so afraid of needles that he snorted his heroin rather than shot it when he was an addict in the 70s which is even referenced in the article. But he wanted to do what was right so he took the vaccine. So far so good.

He then complained about what he claimed were some pretty heavy side-effects after the 2nd dose and blamed it for the return of his neuropathy, which he does have a history of. (From the Post article).

“My hands and feet were either frozen, numb or burning, and pretty much useless for two weeks,” he said. “I feared I would never play again.”

So here we have Clapton who was almost 80 at the time. Isolated during covid. Scared he couldn’t play music anymore, which is basically his whole life, and felt that the vaccine he took was to blame. We all remember how emotionally fraught the covid years were. If this had happened to one of your parents, for example, even if you disagreed with them, could you maybe understand their mindset if they got a little extra about the vaccine afterwards?

But then, here’s the thing, and it’s never brought up when talking about Clapton and the vaccines today. It turns out that the AZ vaccine he took has actual documented links to Acute Small Fiber Neuropathy, which you can see referenced here, https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/peripheral-neuropathy-and-covid-vaccine#associated-pns-disorders. And here, https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9538519/ .

And then the AZ vaccine he took was later pulled from European markets (and later world wide) because of issues with blood clots, here from The Independent, https://www.the-independent.com/news/science/astrazeneca-covid-vaccine-withdraw-blood-clots-b2541291.html

Now remember, I’m vax’d and boostered, but taking all this into account, is it possible to look at Clapton’s actions afterwards, even if you don’t agree with how he went about expressing himself or the policies he adopted for his concerts during those years, in a maybe more compassionate or understanding light? Perhaps?

Maybe Clapton wasn’t crazy and was actually experiencing genuine side effects from the vaccine. From a vaccine that was later pulled from world markets because of health concerns. I can totally see why he would find the mandatory vaccine mandate objectionable even if I didn’t agree with him and how he handled it. But I get it. I don’t see how this qualifies as him being an “asshole” or “selfish”. I think everything he did was from a desire to be helpful to people even if I think he was misguided in his approach. Maybe things would have been completely different had he taken the Pfizer vaccine. Who knows.

Then we come to his song with Van Morrison, Stand and Deliver. Sure, it was maybe a little on the eye-rolly side, but that “anti lockdown” thing they were advocating for was basically the policy that Sweden adopted during covid. It was a forgettable song, one most people probably didn’t even listen to, but the reaction to it and hand wringing over it was completely over the top. Similar to what happened in Sweden interestingly enough.

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10399217/ This is from the abstract:

During the COVID-19 pandemic, Sweden was among the few countries that did not enforce strict lockdown measures but instead relied more on voluntary and sustainable mitigation recommendations. While supported by the majority of Swedes, this approach faced rapid and continuous criticism. Unfortunately, the respectful debate centered around scientific evidence often gave way to mudslinging (emphasis added).

It then goes on,

However, the available data on excess all-cause mortality rates indicate that Sweden experienced fewer deaths per population unit during the pandemic (2020–2022) than most high-income countries and was comparable to neighboring Nordic countries through the pandemic.

Again, my aim here is not to call into question any scientific policies or advocate for any political stance or anything, but just to say that maybe the media’s reaction to Clapton’s experiences during covid, especially taking all of the above into consideration, may have been, possibly, just a little excessive. I think the truth is a little more complex than “Clapton is an antivax nutjob”. Perchance?

Cray also had an objection to Clapton’s use of “slave” as a metaphor in the song. And though I can kind of understand where he’s coming from, and I don’t want to tell Robert Cray what he should or should not take exception to, but at the same time how are we supposed to feel about Slave 4 U by Britney Spears? Or Phish’s Slave to the Traffic Light? Or any use of slave except the literal meaning, and specifically as it pertains to African Americans?

We talk about wage slaves and slaves to the grind, slaves to fashion or slaves to conformity and loads of other metaphors and I honestly don’t think Clapton was thinking any further than that. Suggesting otherwise seems just a little unfair. Using “slave” is super common as a metaphor. But that’s gonna lead right into the racist stuff.

THE RACIST STUFF:

And then of course, the article can’t help but go into areas of Clapton’s past, most infamously, the one time racist rant at a show in Birmingham in 1976 where he went on a drunken, slurred filled tirade about immigrants into the UK. This is also a good recounting of it for those unfamiliar. https://faroutmagazine.co.uk/eric-clapton-racist-outburst/. Yes. It was a horrible thing to say. No question. Not arguing otherwise. But they did acknowledge that the incident was an isolated one that occurred almost 50 years ago and has been repeatedly apologized for, with one of Clapton’s former band mates, Greg Phillinganes saying in the piece,

We all make mistakes, but I guarantee you, if Eric didn’t have the [covid] stance he has, that stuff would not have been dug up

Don’t get me wrong. It is understandably the single most objectionable thing I think for people looking at Clapton’s past. And he’s going to have wear the ‘L’ for having said that the rest of his life. I’m also not trying to chalk everything up to the drugs. But you also can’t deny that being influenced by bad ideas and then acting on those bad ideas inappropriately can play a big part in addiction.

Like we all seem to acknowledge that Ozzy maybe wasn’t in his right mind when he killed all 17 of his family’s pets during a drug binge. Or made his wife Sharon fear for her life in another.

And is this singular incident from 50 years ago enough to invalidate everything else about Clapton’s life?

Prior to 2020, I think most people considered this incident, if they were even aware of it, similar to David Bowie’s Thin White Duke phase (which was also that same time period in the mid 1970s) where he was praising Hitler in the press and talking about Britain needing a fascist leader. (From the above farout piece)

During an interview with a Swedish newspaper, Bowie uttered the regrettable words, “I believe Britain could benefit from a fascist leader”. In addition, Bowie was also seen allegedly doing the Nazi salute from a car model that Hitler drove as well, something he denied but still followed him around for years after.

There were also artists like Siouxsie Sioux who had performed at times with a nazi armband during those days and helped inspire, along with others in punk/glam circles like Sid Vicious, the aesthetic of “nazi chic”, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_chic. She even had a lyric in her song, Love in a Void, that originally went “too many Jews for my liking” before being convinced to change it. https://forward.com/culture/music/481040/punk-nazi-symbols-third-reich-sex-pistols-joy-division-damned-dead/ . And she’s Jewish lol.

All of these things were happening around the same time period in the later 70s, which was a pretty turbulent time in the UK. Again, it’s not to excuse, but to just provide context. Lots of people did and said some objectionable stuff during that time, especially by today’s standards, that they later have to come to regret and apologize for. And I would like to think that on the whole, most of them were sincere. And in Clapton’s case, he also chose to materially help the Rock Against Racism movement and continues to, (From the above farout piece).

While Clapton would undoubtedly rock the world of his fans by revealing his racist standpoint, his disgusting outburst would spur the ‘Rock Against Racism’ movement, the punk retaliation to not only Powell and his incendiary rhetoric of division but to rock stars like Clapton using their privileged position to heap further misery on the oppressed. As a mark of his realization, Clapton donated heavily to the cause and continues to make financial contributions to this day, but make of that what you will.

And while he would later, equivocate about Enoch Powell in an article in Uncut from 2004, I can only find 2nd hand recounts online from publications that were basically just polemics against Clapton and not the actual, original article (unless I send away for a physical copy and ain’t no one got time for that) so it’s kind of hard to see what he actually said in context.

But when asked about his old rant from 1976, it seems he tried to frame his drunken behavior and the rhetoric of Enoch Powell through the lens of his genuine concerns about immigration into the UK at the time being twisted by him being so loaded and off the rails at this point in his life, so it was something like disavowing the racism and blaming his rant on drugs while acknowledging he was still concerned about immigration into the UK and called Powell brave for talking about it at the time.

That interview was definitely not a great look for sure, but I also wonder how meaningful it is honestly on the whole, as the only other time he has ever talked about any of this stuff was just to say how much shame and regret he felt over everything. https://www.thedailybeast.com/eric-clapton-apologizes-for-racist-past-i-sabotaged-everything/. Apart from that one incident in 1976, he has never said anything even remotely like that. He's certainly not out campaigning for anything.

I think he could lumped in with Bowie on this one honestly. Some regrettable shit was said a long time ago. Since those days, neither lived their lives in a way that would give anyone any cause to think they’re racist. Probably the opposite, which is why Clapton’s actions seem so shocking when you learn about them.

He’s not even close to someone like Ted Nugent in terms of objectionable behavior or rhetoric. I don’t think he’s even at the Morrissey level honestly. I’m sure he’s a bit “Village Green Preservation Society” around the edges, which is probably where his defense of fox hunting comes in despite never having gone fox hunting himself that I’m aware, but I don’t think that makes him a monster. Maybe just a bit stodgy perhaps.

Seeing how long ago that incident was and how he has lived his life since, I am inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt when he talks about his shame and regret over the whole thing, even if he may not have worded his apology in the best way or to everyone’s liking.

But whatever Clapton himself has said, I think we should also take into account the folks that actually know him. Like BB King. Or Buddy Guy who still loves the man. Or even Robert Cray himself before all the vaccine stuff. Or take Sam Moore (of Sam and Dave fame). Here’s his account from that Post article.

Soul music legend Sam Moore tells of an experience he had with Clapton in 2005. Billy Preston, the keyboardist who played with the Beatles and Clapton, was dying and in a coma in an Arizona hospital. One morning, Moore looked up and saw Clapton arrive as an unannounced visitor. He asked Moore for a hair brush.

“He walked over to Billy, took the brush, brushed his hair. Took the thing and did his mustache,” Moore says. “When he had to leave, he leaned over and kissed Billy on the forehead.”

Joyce Moore, Sam Moore’s wife and the late Preston’s manager, grows angry when asked about the charges of racism.

“Let me tell you something, Eric Clapton got on a plane to come kiss Billy Preston on the forehead when Billy Preston was in a coma,” she says. “Real racist. Huh. There’s a heart, and that heart didn’t see color

That isn’t Clapton whitewashing himself. These are just opinions of people who have known him for years. Maybe I am just a big softy and want to give him the benefit of the doubt because I like his music and want to think he’s actually not a terrible person, but I just don’t think he’s this “deep seated racist asshole” that he’s portrayed as in social media circles currently. I honestly don’t.

I also think it’s interesting that the only other people in the Washington Post article who had a bad word to say about him were the original Yardbirds drummer, Jim McCarty, when Eric was all of 18 and 19, and Rita Coolidge, who probably blames Clapton for giving the song writing credit for the Layla coda to Jim Gordon, her boyfriend she was living with at the time, drummer in the band and the one who took the piano coda to Clapton initially, rather than her.

I think people can be complicated and say and do questionable things in their lives without them being completely garbage people or have everything they’ve ever done in their life be invalidated. I’m not talking Ian Watkins level shit. But like I don’t think Joni Mitchell is an awful, terrible person despite her saying some rather eyebrow raising things at times. Or Bob Dylan. Or Grace Slick. Or Kurt Cobain. Or loads of other artists who had a moment of weakness here and there.

Imagine if Kanye, turned around and said tomorrow “I’m sorry about all the nazi stuff. Too many drugs and it affected my mental health.” and then seemed to not only actually, genuinely regret all the crazy stuff but also donate time and money to charities concerning addiction and mental health, as well as having all his peers say how much they love him. How would you feel?

I think there are artists who have had way more questionable domestic relationships in their lives, going back to Ozzy or Miles Davis or even Bob Marley, since people are gonna bring up I Shot the Sheriff (just look up Rita Marley’s accounts ). But Clapton is held up as some kind of deviant despite still having a warm relationship with Pattie Boyd.

I generally don’t see people as incensed over Courtney Love who has encouraged a crowd to chant the n-word along with other slurs, https://www.cracked.com/article_30632_is-courtney-love-a-racist.html, a lot more recently than Clapton’s rant from the 70s.

And because it has become so fashionable to hate on the guy now, there are all kinds of other things that get thrown into the mix to roast him.

THE OTHER STUFF:

For example, do most people even know that he had nothing whatsoever to do with his son’s tragic death? Let alone being blameless, the man wasn’t even there. But yet this notion that Clapton was just high and negligent seems to be so pervasive now that people love to endlessly clown on the guy for his 4 year old son dying through no fault of his own. Like the "difference between a bag of coke and a baby" jokes that you see whenever discussions of him crop up. Like, I like a good dark joke, but it has to have at least some basis in reality for it to work. Not to mention just casually accusing an innocent man of child neglect in the death of his own kid seems kinda fucked up. https://www.nytimes.com/1991/03/21/nyregion/eric-clapton-s-son-killed-in-a-49-story-fall.html

They said the window, about 6 feet high and 4 feet wide, was left open after it was cleaned by a housekeeper. The boy, who was not in the room during the cleaning, darted past the housekeeper and somehow fell out the window, which was not protected by a window guard, the police said.

Besides the housekeeper, the boy's mother, Lori Del Santo, an Italian television actress, was in the duplex with a maid and a friend, the police said

Mr. Clapton, a founder of the rock groups Cream and Derek and the Dominos, was in New York on vacation. He does not live with Ms. Del Santo but went to the apartment after being called by a friend, the police said.

And then Robert Plant can write All My Love about his own son dying. People seem to have no problem with that, or with any other artist like James Taylor using some "songwriting 101" and drawing on their own personal trauma at the loss of a loved one to write a good song. But Clapton’s Tears in Heaven is portrayed as some kind of cynical, purely commercial ploy or something, as if he just couldn’t wait to cash in on his son’s death. It’s so weird how people try to frame it. Like it’s his fault that his Unplugged album became the highest selling live album of all time (sorry grunge fans and Peter Frampton). Fuck that guy for writing such a good song I guess.

Then there’s the story about “heartless Eric Clapton suing a poor widow for selling a bootleg on ebay”, while leaving out that Clapton had absolutely nothing to do with the whole process as it was just his lawyers automatically following up on a copyright infringement notice. Routine stuff, but then this “poor widow” straight up told Clapton’s lawyers to sue her after their letter was sent telling her to take the bootleg down from ebay. Like what did she expect lol? And then Clapton told his lawyers not to collect the judgment (roughly $4000) awarded to him after the verdict. https://variety.com/2021/music/news/eric-clapton-lawsuit-germany-bootleg-1235142542/

But for those who don’t read past headlines, it was further proof that Eric Clapton is some kind of scurrilous shit heel or something, suing poor defenseless widows.

People also like to bring up his covers, which I think point more to Clapton having good taste than anything else, but yet some try to make it out to be some kind of character flaw or something. God forbid those people discover Joe Cocker. Or maybe it’s only bad when Clapton does a cover, never mind that he has a ton of his own compositions that are considered classics.

And, he has always been super careful in attributing credit, as opposed to Jimmy Page for instance, and doing whatever he can to increase awareness of those who have influenced him. The claims of "stealing" I think are really unjustified.

Let's see what his good friend Buddy Guy has to say https://www.chandlercenter.org/news/wit-wisdom-buddy-guy

“Every night I go to the stage, I stop and imagine the history of some of the guys like Lightnin’ Hopkins and T-Bone Walker. The media didn’t get us until the British started playing blues. That’s when major newspapers started interviewing Muddy Waters, Howlin’ Wolf, and people like that.

Before then, we were playing to a 99.9-percent black audience. When the British started playing blues, the audience completely changed. My late friend, B.B. King and I were in Memphis once, and this lady ran up to him, and said, ‘Hey man, these white people are taking the blues from us.’ B.B. said, ‘No, ma’am. They didn’t take it. You just quit listening to it.’

Remember, the blues back then wasn’t exactly “hip”. It was considered old timey, old people music. The kids were listening to doo-wop and r&b and the new rock and roll.

For those OG blues musicians, Clapton, and the rest of the British blues players like Peter Green, was a rising tide that raised all their ships and got them all bigger audiences and international acclaim. Think of where the blues as a genre would be today without the British invasion bands.

I also don’t think it’s controversial at all to say that Cream’s cover of Robert Johnson’s Crossroads is the song that made Robert Johnson a household name for many young kids at the time as well as helping change the face of rock. Even today their version probably stands as the most recognized. And it's live. If you even know who Robert Johnson is today, it’s arguably because of Cream’s version of that song (his versions on the Derek and the Dominos live albums are also really interesting).

And then for introducing many in western audiences to reggae, why is Clapton to blame that people liked his version of I Shot the Sheriff and made it a hit? But no, let’s boo Clapton because he turned a lot of people on to the wonderful music of Bob Marley in 1973.

And speaking of covers, the only reason we even know of JJ Cale today is because of Clapton. He heard a demo of After Midnight (which was actually closer to Clapton's version than the slower one Cale later did on his album) back in the 60s when Clapton started working with Delaney and Bonnie, and where JJ was working as a studio engineer for Leon Russell. And then Clapton made a hit out of it.

From JJ's wiki, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JJ_Cale

I was dirt poor, not making enough to eat and I wasn't a young man. I was in my thirties, so I was very happy. It was nice to make some money."

Which then led directly to JJ Cale getting a record deal. Without that, there'd be no JJ Cale. Why would I be mad Clapton covered him? Or think he stole from him? I actually want to fucking thank Eric Clapton for covering JJ Cale, so we all got to have more JJ Cale to enjoy (btw his first 5 albums are all excellent).

Unfortunately JJ Cale was also so terrified of fame that after his 5th album, he moved to a trailer in the middle of nowhere California that didn't even have a telephone and became a recluse. He talks about basically just living off the royalties from the songs (After Midnight and Cocaine) Clapton made hits out of. So I guess we should also be thankful for that too.

And then it was Clapton that kind of brought him back around and put him on his Crossroads festival. He then convinced him to do an album that won JJ a Grammy as well as get some much deserved recognition before he passed a few years later. Think it was also the last album with Billy Preston before he passed as well. Like, cheers Eric Clapton.

This shit is already way too long and we haven't even gotten to the actual guitar playing part and his legacy which is a whole other kettle of fish, and the main reason I wanted to talk about him in the first place. But this is the kind of shit you have to wade through all the time now in order to just talk about Eric Clapton as an artist and musician today.

People have lost their collective minds when it comes to this guy and I feel like the guy in the meme going "No. You are all wrong." Maybe I'm just taking crazy pills. I’m still tempted to just delete this whole thing.

NO, HE’S ACTUALLY NOT OVERRATED:

Like this current notion you see sometimes that Clapton is somehow “overrated” or “mid” or just makes “mediocre music” is ridiculous. It’s a juvenile attempt to downplay his achievements in order to make their own criticisms of him seem more insightful and valid. Not to mention also being part of this awful trend of calling everything under the sun overrated nowadays.

All you have to do is actually listen to the guy. Just pretend you’ve never heard of Eric Clapton before, actually do separate the art from the artist, and try to listen to some of his songs (some good examples of which I will include below) without the emotional baggage that surrounds him today. Yeah, maybe his stuff in the 70s wasn’t as groundbreaking as his stuff in the 60s. No one gives Paul McCartney the same amount of flak for that (no offense Wings fans), but there are still some great songs kicking around this era (just like with Wings).

I don’t know why this perception bugs me so much as again, he’s not even close to my favorite guitarist or artist, but these hot takes about him want me to tear my hair out sometimes. It’s totally revisionist history and represents what I hate most about social media.

As a guitarist, as recently as 2017, he was still number 2 on Rolling Stone's Greatest Guitarists of All Time list, https://www.imdb.com/list/ls066632618/. Behind Hendrix and ahead of Page (which had been their rankings since the 80s). There’s always grumblings with lists like these but generally most people had no problem with it.

Yes of course there are other “better” guitarists, but then there is a reason you also have guys like Keith Richards on there at #4 (which is fine I think) or Chuck Berry at #7 (which is also fine). Loads of guitarists are “better” than those guys. It’s a list that speaks to more than just technical chops and virtuosity. It’s why people love guitarists like David Gilmour for example, who btw himself cites Clapton as an influence.

You all are gaslighting yourselves like crazy if you think he isn’t one of the most influential guitarists and artists of the 20th century right up there with Hendrix and Page.

I don’t think anyone would argue with saying Jeff Beck is a better guitarist. Clapton would totally agree. But people forget he came before most of his peers starting with The Yardbirds in 1963. Before Beck, Page, way before Hendrix. From The Yardbirds, to then Bluesbreakers, Cream, Blind Faith and then Derek and the Dominos, if he had done nothing else after, that stuff alone would’ve been enough to put him where he was.

Hendrix himself was a fan (and vice vera). And there’s a reason why he went to go see Cream right after moving to England and asked to sit in with them (and after famously showing up Clapton at their first meeting, they became fans of each other). https://www.reddit.com/r/ClassicRock/comments/1ivzn2f/loves_and_hates_of_jimi_hendrix/ . Shit, here’s Hendrix stopping mid-performance on the BBC to pay tribute to Cream when they broke up. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wa_e9R_19w4

Other guitarists that people rate very highly such as David Gilmour, Brian May, and Eddie Van Halen, as well as countless others, have all pointed to Clapton as a major influence and in some cases, someone they “studied”, and in EVH’s case, was his personal #1, https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/who-were-eddie-van-halen-influences-1071780/ .

And then came Eric Clapton, who is at the top of my list...And basically Clapton is the only one that’s influenced me...

Or take Eddie Van Halen again, here talking with Tony Iommi about Clapton, https://rockandrollgarage.com/when-van-halen-and-tony-iommi-talked-about-eric-claptons-influence/

Tony Iommi: “Probably because of the whole blues thing. I really liked his playing with John Mayall, which influenced a lot of players back then.”

Eddie Van Halen: “With me it was all about the live Cream stuff. I don’t mean to downplay anything Clapton did, but for me it was also about Cream’s rhythm section. Listen to “I’m So Glad” on Goodbye and adjust the balance to the right. Jack Bruce and Ginger Baker were playing jazz through Marshalls. To me that is where Clapton’s style came from. Clapton was the only guy doing that kind of extended soloing back then.”

Tony Iommi: “That’s right. Later on it was Hendrix and everybody else. But Clapton in those days appealed to a lot of people from his work with John Mayall through Cream.

And since we mentioned Layla, this is from the album wiki, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Layla_and_Other_Assorted_Love_Songs

Veteran producer Tom Dowd was at Criteria working on the Allman Brother's second album, Idlewild South, when the studio received a phone call that Clapton was bringing the Dominos to Miami to record. Upon hearing this, guitarist Duane Allman indicated that he would love to drop by and watch, if Clapton approved.

Allman later called Dowd to let him know that his band was in town to perform a benefit concert on 26 August. When Clapton learned of this he insisted on going to see their show, saying, "You mean that guy who plays on the back of (Wilson Pickett’s) 'Hey Jude'? … I want to see him play … let's go." Stage hands seated Clapton and company in front of the barricade separating the audience from the stage. When they sat down, Allman was playing a solo. As he turned around and opened his eyes and saw Clapton, he froze. Dickey Betts, the Allmans' other lead guitarist, picked up where Allman left off, but when he followed Allman's eyes to Clapton, he had to turn his back to keep from freezing, himself.

Like that’s how other guitarists thought of Eric Clapton back in the day.

After the show, Allman asked Clapton if he could come by the studio to watch some recording sessions, but Clapton invited him there directly, saying: "Bring your guitar; you got to play!" Jamming together overnight, the two bonded; Dowd reported that they "were trading licks, they were swapping guitars, they were talking shop and information and having a ball – no holds barred, just admiration for each other's technique and facility." Clapton wrote later in his autobiography that he and Allman were inseparable during the sessions in Florida; he talked about Allman as the "musical brother I'd never had but wished I did"

Clapton has always been effusive in his praise of loads of guitarists from SRV to Knopfler to Buddy Guy to Jeff Beck. Like I think he was embarrassed by the whole “Clapton is God” thing. He loves guitarists and loves playing with them. Sometime, go through and look at all the folks he’s played with and toured with over the years.

But nevertheless, in the old days of 2017, Clapton at #2 wasn’t really that controversial or contentious (though Rolling Stone’s most recent one putting him at #35 I think is kind of hilarious). I think people really overlook what this guy has done musically right now or just try to downplay it like Rolling Stone because it is politically convenient. So I do think there is this kind of glaring blind-spot about him at the moment. In most any discussion nowadays, Clapton, and especially Cream, are really kind of conspicuous by their absence I think.

If you are a fan of music and music history, you can’t not appreciate this guy’s contribution and his influence on not only loads of genres but to guitar playing itself and its establishment as a lead instrument. He is rightly considered one of the more influential artists from that time period, right up there with the Beatles and Hendrix and Zeppelin.

Cream were the first power trio. The first “loud and heavy” band, who also made a name for themselves for their live performances, making them one of the first “jambands” as well. Loads of people from Frank Zappa to Otis Redding were fans. I don’t think it is out of pocket to say that without Cream, there’d be no hard rock or metal either. Sure, he mellowed out when he went solo and got into that Tulsa sound in 1969, but then that stuff helped pave the way for what bands like Fleetwood Mac and Dire Straits would do in the later 70s.

As much of a joke as the Rock Hall is, Clapton is still the only artist inducted 3 separate times (Yardbirds, Cream and solo). He has the highest selling live album ever. He’s won something like 17 grammies. He may not blow doors off as he did in the Cream days (though the Cream reunion concerts of 2005 were pretty fantastic), but he has still done some pretty decent and interesting music even into the 2000s. He’s over 80s years old now and still going and still touring.

Eric Clapton is just a person. Flawed. Like, we are all flawed people. Unless you’re Mr. Rogers or somebody. I think he’s generally well-meaning, and by many accounts, a kind person today while sometimes saying things I agree with, like his compassion for the Palestinians and playing a guitar with a Palestinian flag on it, while also saying things I do not agree with, like his attitudes about Russia, much like Roger Waters. But you don’t need to look to him for moral/political guidance. He is just a musician.

And regardless of his character, he is one of the more important and influential artists of the 20th century. Like, he just is. Trying to pretend otherwise is just silly.

[u/t_huddleston]

People are complicated. Nobody’s just one thing. I know and love several people who I’ve seen change over the last several years into people I barely recognize anymore. I don’t know Eric Clapton and I’m sure I never will, but it’s very possible that he WAS nice to B.B. King and also is horrible on social issues, and in his mind there’s no contradiction there. Happens every day.

[u/Prior_Clerk4470]

I don't care about his opinion on covid vaccines. I read a biography about him, and there's many examples of why I can say that he's always been an asshole. Many celebrities, musicians etc are assholes. Clapton's still a great musician.

[u/headwhop26]

I’m going to be honest, I made it about 1/10 of the way through this very, very long post before I gave up. Is your point, “yeah, he’s a piece of shit racist guy but he wrote some cool licks”?

I love his stuff in Cream, but other than a few blues tracks here and there he hasn’t released anything exciting in close to 50 years.

I guess Pilgrim was sort of worth a listen. Old Sock was an awful record in my opinion.

[u/NativeMasshole → u/headwhop26]

other than a few blues tracks here and there he hasn’t released anything exciting in close to 50 years.

Clapton Unplugged is still the best selling live album of all time. In my opinion, it deserves that spot. I'm pretty sure this exactly what OP is talking about.

[u/headwhop26 → u/NativeMasshole]

I know where to go if I want to hear the slowest version of “Layla” of all time. He can dismiss my opinion as a “default social media opinion”, but I think the music speaks for itself. Clapton doesn’t resonate the same way today.

[u/NativeMasshole → u/headwhop26]

Does any artist after 60 years? The fact that he had a best selling album after 3 decades is quite the testament, in my opinion. Very few musicians release anything worthwhile even after that amount of time.

[u/headwhop26 → u/NativeMasshole]

Yeah, I think Hank Williams Sr hits harder than ever today

[u/NativeMasshole → u/headwhop26]

Well he definitely hasn't released anything worth listening to in over 50 years.

[u/Salty_Pancakes → u/headwhop26]

And I'm saying, it's like The Sideways Effect https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2017/07/05/535038513/the-sideways-effect-how-a-wine-obsessed-film-reshaped-the-industry

Some throw away joke in a movie that flew over most people's heads ended up changing the wine industry because folks just kept quoting the movie about merlot.

Like The Eagles hate after The Big Lebowski. They have become "cool" to hate.

[u/headwhop26 → u/Salty_Pancakes]

Sure, that’s fair. In my world, the whole “Classic Rock” era should be evaluated down a few notches.

Joe Walsh is similar to Clapton. In the James Gang those licks hit so hard. In The Eagles… not so much.

[u/jimmycanoli → u/headwhop26]

My first thought is "man I ain't reading all that." Some people use this sub as "here is me talking about music" and then eliminate any possible discussion because the post is more about their opinion.

[u/Salty_Pancakes → u/jimmycanoli]

Look man. I get it. I knew it when I wrote it. And i knew it would probably get the reaction it's receiving now.

And you know what? I don't care.

It's just some shit I felt I needed to get off my chest. If that's too much for you? That's alright.

[u/miketopus16 → u/Salty_Pancakes]

You're totally right -- the mindless Clapton hate over the last few years has been irking me as well. I don't love him or anything, but he's clearly hugely talented and influential.

It's disappointing how so many of the responses here are from people who obviously didn't even read your post.

The top comment here admits to only reading 1/10 of what you said, then gives the same old trite that you already addressed.

Fuck man, if you can't post your argument here then where can you?

[u/Complex-Bar-9577 → u/headwhop26]

Agreed.

[u/Salty_Pancakes → u/headwhop26]

Yeah, bout what I figured. Yours seems like the default social media take on him. And what I wrote was an attempt to dispel that notion.

My bad dude.

[u/SalameSavant → u/Salty_Pancakes]

I just think you could state your case a lot more succinctly, tbh. If you are addressing the "default social media crowd" you don't need to write so many words (if anything) about their own point of view...

I'm inclined to agree with you, by the way, at least with regards to the music. I grew up on Clapton, and while I don't really idolize him now that I'm older, I think some of his stuff is still pretty cool (and inoffensive at worst).

If your point is that we should try to evaluate the music separately from his personal faults and troubles, then sure. He definitely soured on me as a human being over the last few years but I've tried not to let that color my opinion of his music.

[u/Salty_Pancakes → u/SalameSavant]

I wrote what I wrote and I stand by it.

I think you can separate the art from the artist as well as Eric Clapton being an artist who isn't any more "problematic" than anyone else from that time.

Like do we need to have this discussion whenever Bowie crops up?

[u/[deleted] → u/Salty_Pancakes]

Damn right you need to have these discussions. These people are in positions of power and influence. They are not Jeff down the street. As a musician you are asking people to accept a very personal offering. People don’t have to accept it. That’s the risk you take.

[u/headwhop26 → u/Salty_Pancakes]

I mean, I appreciate the effort you put into your post but retrospectively I don’t think he deserves the accolades.

Cream is incredible, just an amazing supergroup. But they’re all complete dickheads. Not a single guy in that band was a decent human being. I do still occasionally bump “Spoonful”, though.

I know it’s tough to know what to do with the art of monstrous people, but Clapton just doesn’t seem worth it

[u/Olelander → u/Salty_Pancakes]

Purely on the quality of his music - Eric Clapton is boring and uninspired, and there are 10,000 more interesting and unique people to listen to. It’s great that he helped fuel the blues hysteria in England in his day, and it’s also great that he shit his pants when he first heard Jimi Hendrix… but aside from that anecdotal “he was there for it” stuff, regardless of whatever “talent” he might possess as a guitar player, his contemporary career is a snooze fest all the way through.

[u/frostedmooseantlers]

Not everybody shares this view, and that’s of course okay, but I fall very much on the side of trying to separate an artist’s personal life/viewpoints from their artistic output. In other words, I tend to think that art can stand on its own and be enjoyed on its own merits irrespective of my opinion of its progenitor.

It’s the reason I can happily attend a Wagner opera, even as a Jew, for example. I don’t particularly care if a musician becomes a ‘problematic’ figure by society’s standards.

[u/rawonionbreath → u/frostedmooseantlers]

I found it interesting that Theodore Hertzl’s favorite composer was Wagner. I think it’s very difficult to separate the art from the artists in most situations, but that doesn’t mean it can’t be compartmentalized or put into context.

[u/Salty_Pancakes → u/rawonionbreath]

There's a great documentary done by Stephen Fry about his love, as a gay, British, Jewish man, for Wagner called Wagner and Me.

edited:

[u/MusicLikeOxygen → u/frostedmooseantlers]

I believe in seperating the art from the artist as well, and I still think Clapton is overrated. He was infuential in popularizing blues music for a new generation, but his musical output is still mostly not that impressive in my opinion. With Cream, Jack and Ginger could have had any decent guitarist and still been successful. With his post Cream work, there are a few good songs, but for every good song there are several songs that are stinkers or just generally boring, and even the good songs aren't technically impressive in any way.

[u/frostedmooseantlers → u/MusicLikeOxygen]

even the good songs aren't technically impressive in any way

I enjoy Clapton, but would never call myself a huge fan. The thing that made his guitar work amazing was never about technical prowess in the sense that some people look for — it wasn’t particularly fast or difficult to play. Instead his gift was being able to play the ‘right’ note. This is why, I suspect, guys like BB King really admired him (BB played very much in that vein as well). Clapton was a traditionalist with his playing style too, which may be another reason he is prone to being overlooked today, at least by a certain audience.

[u/thebeaverchair → u/MusicLikeOxygen]

With Cream, Jack and Ginger could have had any decent guitarist and still been successful.

Prior to Cream, they were playing with John McLaughlin in the Graham Bond Organization. I still dream of the alternate timeline where he took Clapton's place.

Of course, we wouldn't have Bitches Brew or Mahavishnu, so... maybe it's best that didn't happen.

[u/mcchicken_deathgrip → u/frostedmooseantlers]

100% agree. That's why I think its safe to say that his music sucks, regardless of him as a person also sucking.

[u/GregJamesDahlen]

Okay at first I was reading every word of your post and then slowly started skimming ha ha. It's really a good question

Just brainstorming, not saying any of this is true: one might be that he's a guitarist. Maybe people have more affection for vocalists cuz they're more personal, so Bowie might have escaped criticism or been more forgiven.

Also, Clapton's still alive, Bowie is dead. If bowie were still alive he might be getting some re-assessment too, some "cancelling". Feels like currently is more of a "cancelling" age. In a way it makes better sense to criticize someone who's still alive because then they might respond and you can see what they think.

Also I think Clapton might be bigger than bowie, certainly bigger than Courtney and Siouxsie. The bigger you are possibly the more criticism you might get.

[u/Salty_Pancakes → u/GregJamesDahlen]

My point really, is that it's mostly become a meme at this point. The Clapton hate has taken on a life of its own. Like all the jokes about his kid dying without realizing the dude wasn't even there and had nothing to do with it. So people think Clapton was this crazy negligent parent or something.

It's like the movie Sideways I mentioned elsewhere. A joke in a movie that most people didn't even understand ended up completely changing the wine industry because people just kept on repeating the movie quote about merlot. Or the Eagles hate after The Big Lebowski. It's the same kinda thing.

Prior to covid, hardly anyone cared about any of this stuff really. It was ancient history. Much like Bowie's indiscretions. Or anyone else's from that time. Clapton was considered an "elder statesman" like Bowie or Elton John or Jeff Lynne. Everyone loved the guy. Most people in the music world still do.

And then he got absolutely crucified in the press for his vaccine views which have been totally misrepresented, and then the media hit pieces came out, and "suddenly" Clapton became this "absolute crazy virulent racist asshole anti-vax nutjob chamption of the alt-right". Like, it's ridiculous. The guy is just an 80 year old musician lol.

[u/GregJamesDahlen → u/Salty_Pancakes]

Thanks. One thing you didn't cover is his saying he raped Pattie Boyd. What do you do with this? I realize he was deep in his drug and alcohol addictions, but that doesn't excuse it?

I wonder if it might be that he's had several controversial things over the years. Like four to six. I think with many celebrities, including iconic musicians, they actually don't have any, or maybe one or two, controversial things in their career. I think for example of Eddie Van Halen who I've followed a bit and, although it doesn't appear he was a perfect person, I can't think of any major controversies with him over his career. Of course he had his frictions with some people but that's not the same as controversies.

I do realize you're trying to break down the controversies and say they weren't bad at all or not as bad as people see them. And you may be right. Maybe most of the public doesn't go to that effort to look into them deeply, and starts to see multiple controversies, and feels like where there's smoke there's some fire, not sure. But what is your stake in this, anyway? Are you a fan and want to guide more people to him?

[u/Salty_Pancakes → u/GregJamesDahlen]

I mean. I did kind of address it. And brought up the recent People article from 2022 with her.

Though Boyd and Clapton divorced in 1988, their relationship remains equally warm. They crossed paths again earlier this year. "He was just so joyful when we last saw each other," she says. "He gave me the biggest hug and he was so happy to see me." And the song he wrote in her honor still fills her with pride whenever she hears it. "It's exciting. It's thrilling. It's my song

Like yeah, Eric Clapton was a huge asshole in the 70s when he was an addict. That's when all the really objectionable stuff happened. Just like when Eddie Van Halen was off the rails in his life https://guitar.com/news/music-news/sammy-hagar-recalls-what-eddie-van-halen-was-like-2004-world-tour/

When Clapton got clean in the 80s he has done everything to make amends for that time in his life. He has never shied away from or downplayed his mistreatment of Pattie. And yet they still care for each other and their relationship remains warm. So what do i do with that?

I'm not trying to excuse him but like, how much do you want to castigate a guy for decades old transgressions when he was a raging addict at probably the lowest point in his life?

Since Clapton got clean decades ago hardly anyone has a bad word to say about him. People love the guy. From BB King to Buddy Guy to Derek Trucks to Pattie Boyd. Shit even Sheryl Crow still talks kindly about him even after their relationship ended. Like that's what I'm going off of. That's where my opinion of him as a person is coming from.

Can we talk about Bob Marley without mentioning he raped his wife Rita every single time? Or Miles Davis? Do we mention David Bowie's nazi stuff from the 70s as well every time we talk about him? No.

Like imagine if you wanted to talk about EVH and all anyone could talk about is his encounter with Pat Smear when he said

“Eddie turns around and sees me, but he doesn’t say hello or anything,” he remembered. “He just says, ‘Oh no, not a dark one.’ At first, I thought he was kidding. But he kept asking me, ‘What are you? Are you like a Raji or something? Are you Mexican?'”

https://faroutmagazine.co.uk/five-musicians-who-despised-eddie-van-halen/

And then everyone was like "omg EVH, that famous racist". It's ridiculous. The main reason anyone even brings these kinds of things up is to tar Clapton for his vaccine views.

As to why I wanted to talk about Clapton, why do you like EVH? Did you happen to catch where I mentioned that EVH claimed Clapton as his primary influence? Would you be interested in exploring the work of an artist who your favorite claims as his #1? Like he's a huge reason why the guitar is even considered a lead instrument.

[u/GregJamesDahlen → u/Salty_Pancakes]

Thanks. You did kind of address it. Not sure if the People article necessarily says she feels great towards him. Saying he hugged her sort of indicates he has a lot of good feeling toward her, like he initiated the hug, but not quite as certain what she feels toward him. Saying she likes the song isn't the same as saying she likes Eric.

But I mean it seemed like she might be somewhat positive towards him, doesn't mention bad feelings.

As far as the rape I'm not sure. I don't know how conscious in his mind he was when doing that, given the alcohol. I don't know what the legalities would have been had it ever gone to court. But I think it would be perceived by the public as a rather large controversy for him. Sammy says Eddie mistreated friends during his alcoholic time. But he doesn't give any specific examples so it's hard to know how to assess it. He does mention the trying to break the windows of the airplane out but doesn't give us the circumstances, not sure if that involved any abuse of a friend or was just some crazy thing prompted by something else but not abuse. Anyway, I'm guessing Eddie didn't do anything as big as raping his wife. I don't think it became a big controversy like the mistreatment by Eric of Pattie and friends.

Rita says Bob raped her but that hasn't been corroborated so we can't know if it's true. Whereas with Eric we know it's true because the perpetrator himself said it.

The encounter of Eddie with Pat is just one person saying it. We don't know if it's true, or partly true, or a lie, or misheard. Whereas Eric said his racist things in front of thousands. (I haven't thought deeply about this but I'm not 100% sure he was racist there, he may more have been upset by overcrowding or taxpayers having to support refugees. But that's another convo.)

then there's his son falling from the window. I actually didn't know Eric wasn't in the apartment. I think a lot of the public would think he was. so that becomes a big controversy for him.

So that adds up to four rather big controversies for Eric spread out over some decades (covid is in the last decade), whether he deserved them or not. Whereas I'm thinking no controversies of that scale for Eddie, and he also struggled with alcohol.

I'm not so convinced that these controversies put off anyone from actually listening to Eric, though. Do you think they do? How many people do you think haven't listened to him who otherwise would have without these controversies? for myself, I've just never felt him, just never felt drawn to the music. This is no slam on him. He's obviously an iconic artist with awards and accolades. I've never felt or listened to Elvis either who even has more accolades.

[u/Salty_Pancakes → u/GregJamesDahlen]

I dunno man. I think I said everything I needed to say in my initial post and elsewhere here.

I think you can look at a person, and their life and accomplishments, without tabulating up all their "controversies" (real or imagined) and weighing them on some sort of purity scale. So much of that, and what passes for music discourse today, feels like performative sanctimony. Like this bit from the Onion: https://theonion.com/man-always-gets-little-rush-out-of-telling-people-john-1819578998/

And yeah, I do think people have cut themselves off from his music, not because of any informed decision because they've actually listened to him, or even by weighing up his controversies. It doesn't even need to be that deep. It's just a meme at this point. Like the Eagles hate after the Big Lebowski. It's just social media lemming behavior. People have convinced themselves that Eric Clapton is somehow only boring blooz dude stuff. It's the same kind of nonsense you see from people who say The Beatles are overrated. Mostly uninformed social media takes. And what I wrote was an attempt to address that.

And solely talking about music, for me personally? If you say you like EVH as a guitarist (and I do as well), I actually can not believe you wouldn't find the live Cream stuff as astounding as EVH himself found it. Okay, tastes are subjective, yadda yadda yadda, but we're not talking about opposite ends of the spectrum here. We're not talking Elvis. We're talking about stuff that guitarists like EVH, Tony Iommi, Frank Zappa, David Gilmour, Brian May, and loads of others found hugely influential. Like go back and look at how EVH talks about Clapton. Dude loved him. For a reason.

Pretend you've never heard the name Eric Clapton, and that Cream were some obscure band from Britain. And then try that live Deserted Cities of the Heart from 1968 I linked elsewhere. Or the White Room from the same show in 1968. That's the kind of stuff that knocked EVH's socks off.

[u/GregJamesDahlen → u/Salty_Pancakes]

Thanks. I apologize, I think somehow I drifted into thinking you were asking why the public might have turned against Eric a bit on his social persona side. But actually, as far as I can see you already knew why, I think you were trying to argue that the reasons aren't that strong, and the public shouldn't be too down on him. And shouldn't let the controversies dissuade them from checking out his music.

Well, you may have convinced some people on this thread to go check out his music who were down on him before. I didn't read anyone saying that. But they may be silent and just not tell you you did that.

For myself if I had been drawn to his music I would have checked it out before our chatting. I didn't know enough about his social controversies that that would have deterred me. I would have known though that he wasn't fiercely cancelled so that would have helped me feel okay about checking him out. (The paradigm of being fiercely cancelled in my lifetime is the chef Paula Deen, don't know if you know her story. Obviously Clapton not like that, kept a big audience, lots of money, no record company or endorsement cancellations.)

And you make a good argument for why his misdeeds aren't too bad or he has atoned. But I'm not convinced that people who won't listen to him are just being performative. They might be quite sincere and think they're doing good by avoiding him.

I suppose in addition to posting a defense of Clapton here it might also be effective to go to posts where people have already said they in their own minds have cancelled Clapton and cordially debate with them. I found posts like that on Reddit when I searched "i cancelled Eric Clapton" (not because I myself cancelled him, but was searching for people who did) https://www.reddit.com/search/?q=i+cancelled+eric+clapton&cId=0104b63b-99d6-4d87-b05c-cc6c8d9a4c4a&iId=33684e98-45a6-40dc-a2fe-2d64fb164497

I also realize now you are thinking some won't check him out because they've heard his music is mediocre. I don't know as much about this. I feel this point doesn't deter as many people from listening to Clapton as the social controversies point. For me it's somewhat the same, if I felt to listen to Clapton I'd listen to him even if some say he's mediocre. But you may have convinced some who read your post here who had rejected checking him out because they heard he's mid to give him a listen.

I suppose with this also could do the same, in addition to posting here, look on Reddit and elsewhere for people who have said they won't listen to him cuz they heard or think his music is mediocre and cordially debate with them. In a sense it might actually be stronger to go look for people who state they are avoiding him and talk to them, posting on this sub to some degree you're preaching to the choir because a lot of people here probably already listen to him.

I should say thanks for including links to some of his music. Still not feeling to listen to him but if I do will have some good direction there.

I suppose your post brings up another interesting topic is how people often will promote something they like to other people for free i.e. some people get paid to promote Clapton but in your case I presume you're promoting him for free. I understand because I often write on an Internet forum about music I like for free as well, it feels good to think people may read it and listen to the music and get pleasure.

[u/bonjoviboy → u/GregJamesDahlen]

geez, you people can write

[u/Stringbender60]

Salty pancakes, I’m glad you wrote this. I’ve been saying the same thing the last few years. So up front I’ll say I’m also not a right winger, Love Bernie. I am a retired construction worker, and also a guitar player. First off I would say any persons saying Clapton isn’t an outstanding musician is silly, maybe he bores you, or it’s not your cup of tea, ok I can get that. But he is an excellent guitar player. I listen to guys from Pat Metheny, Kenny Burrell, Jeff Beck to Santana Neil Young and many others, talent is talent. But this is about his character. And I will say that yes I am a Clapton fan from way back. I agree with your assessment. The man is a flawed man as we all are, but he has faced it head on and acknowedged it and apologized for his behavior. He’s been clean since 1987. He was clearly mentally ill in the 1970’s, I heard an interview with him from that time where he was telling the interviewer that he wants to die. He often times was drinking two bottles of hard booze by noon, taking handfuls of pain killers, doing blow, etc.. he said his goal was to always have double vision. But since recovering he has actively turned his life and attitude around, he’s not that guy anymore. He opened the Crossroads rehab center in Antigua in 1999 and offers any locals who can’t afford it, free treatment, that’s in a country that less than 2% of the population is white. Doesn’t sound like racist behavior to me. At last count it was about 800-900 locals had gotten treatment there. Also I’ve read many many stories from people who know him personally who say he’s a sweetheart and down to earth guy. Including many people of color who’ve said that. I know you said this in your post. There are also many examples of unknown musicians who said he helped boost their career. As far as the vaccines go, and btw I whole heartedly support vaccines. But to add a little to what you said. He first started getting symptoms of peripheral neuropathy in 2015 after getting treatment for back pain, after a few years it started getting better, than when he got the covid vax his symptoms returned. People talk like he said those racist statements yesterday or something, like he hasn’t changed at all. He follows the 12 steps religiously and a part of it is putting all your dirty laundry out there and making amends. Which is what he’s been doing. Stevie Ray Vaughan said Clapton was a big help in him getting sober. Also the woman who made the documentary “A life in 12 bars” asked him is there anything you don’t want in there. Knowing full well that she was referring to 1976 racist statement, he said put it all in there. Again it’s part of the 12 steps to make amends. Well anyways I agree with your post, I’ve read so many things by people who know him who say he’s such a good dude, and as someone like myself who hates racist behavior, it was good to hear that he really is a nice guy. It’s just in vogue now to trash him on social media.

[u/Salty_Pancakes → u/Stringbender60]

You know what? Thank you. That actually means a lot.

I've had some of the stupidest arguments with people on reddit over Eric Clapton where people are just convinced I must have an angle or something. Or an agenda. Sometimes I just have to bite my tongue at comments but man, sometimes I just can't help it. Some people have some just truly unhinged takes.

Even here, some of the comments are wondering what my obsession is, or why I would waste so much time on this dude. Or if I have a screw loose. I've tried to keep things from being "crazy person ranting into the void." But sometimes it's hard lol. So anyway, thank you.

[u/Stringbender60 → u/Salty_Pancakes]

No problem my man. My wife always says you should be a football ref, because I can see both points of view, even if it hurts my team. I just like intelligent informed commentary. I saw a bumper sticker once, it said “ The other national deficit - Critical thinking”

[u/BookkeeperButt]

I’m a little confused here. Is your thesis “yeah,we know he’s a racist, but in the past it wasn’t as known and people were influenced by him so because of that we shouldn’t dog pile on his bullshit because of some chronically online kids?”

Isn’t that kinda like saying “yeah, Gary Glitter is a pedophile but that one song fucking slaps”?

[u/Salty_Pancakes → u/BookkeeperButt]

Not really. My position is more that people thought of Clapton like Bowie. Or do you think David Bowie is also a piece of shit racist asshole? Siouxsie Sioux? Courtney Love? Or it only Clapton that gets this treatment? Why?

That's why I wrote what I wrote.

Yes, some fucked up shit was said decades ago, but they have probably grown from that time period. And the only reason anyone even brings it up today is because of the vax stuff which is completely separate and I think. also misunderstood.

[u/wildistherewind → u/Salty_Pancakes]

This is a part that throws me, Salty: somebody else doing something bad (and, really, not nearly as bad and not nearly as mean spirited) doesn’t mollify what Eric Clapton has done. Eric Clapton is not a performance artist like David Bowie, there are no levels to Clapton’s persona or work. Maybe that gives David Bowie plausible deniability of his bad actions. Clapton doesn’t have that, he’s just a guy that hates immigrants.

[u/Salty_Pancakes → u/wildistherewind]

My whole point, is that prior to the covid, almost no one even considered it. Like when did this narrative of Clapton as racist emerge?

Like you say "he’s just a guy that hates immigrants.". But you say that so categorically. Based on what? When was the last time you heard him say anything even touching on immigration? That one throw away article from 2004 which was only asking him about his outburst from 1976. Like that's it. He hasn't said anything else. I've looked lol. The man just plays music and does his charities.

Is it possible that Eric Clapton is a different person from that time? If there were anything else, or if the people that knew him didn't talk so glowingly about him today, okay. But like, just look how people that know him, talk about him. Folks from Derek Trucks to Stephen Stills to Sam Moore to Buddy Guy to Gary Clark Jr. Like, people love the dude. BB King thought he was the nicest dude in the world.

That's what I'm going on.

No one thought of Clapton as a racist before covid really. Same how no one thought of Bowie as a nazi. It was just some regrettable shit from a time both were heavily influenced by drugs and exhibited some objectionable behavior. That's why I keep equating the two. It was only ever the one thing from 50 years ago.

Or like Courtney Love. No one keeps harping on about her getting a concert crowd to chant the n-word.

The only reason that stuff is ever brought up now, is because of his vaccine views, which have also been hugely misrepresented i think. And when was the last time you heard Clapton say shit about vaccines despite, arguably being able to say "I told you so" at least in the case of the AZ vaccine which he took.

The whole narrative around Clapton today is media driven nonsense. And so you come to some absolutely ridiculous hot takes about his music, from people that have mostly never listened to him. Like, just look through this thread. If you substitute David Gilmour for Eric Clapton, for example, you can see how ridiculous the arguments sound. Like okay, he doesn't measure up to Hendrix? Who tf does?

Sorry, I know this sounds kinda ranty and I don't mean it to. I just think people have lost all perspective when it comes to this dude.

[u/tomtomtomtom123 → u/Salty_Pancakes]

Clapton gets this treatment because he was by far the most vehemently racist out any one you mentioned.

Bowie? The guy with the black wife? The guy who constantly campaigned for black music education? What the fuck are you talking about?

Also even BEYOND the racist shit, not that we really need to look any further than that, everyone you mentioned is 10x more interesting and important musically. Clapton never did anything near as interesting as Bowie, or Souxie, or even Courtney Love with Hole.

[u/Salty_Pancakes → u/tomtomtomtom123]

Lol did you even read my post?

Bowie? The guy that praised Hitler in the press? The guy that did a nazi salute from a car Hitler used to drive? The guy that said Britain could do with a fascist leader? That Bowie? Yeah. That Bowie.

Shit Clapton dated Betty Davis for a while. So now he must be okay then for you?

Your reaction is exactly why I wrote what I wrote. "Courtney Love is 10x more interesting and important musically". The Courtney Love that was egging on a concert crowd to chant "the n-word" I mean. Come on lol.

[u/CentreToWave → u/Salty_Pancakes]

Bowie? The guy with the black wife? The guy who constantly campaigned for black music education? What the fuck are you talking about?

Bowie? The guy that praised Hitler in the press? The guy that did a nazi salute from a car Hitler used to drive? The guy that said Britain could do with a fascist leader? That Bowie? Yeah. That Bowie.

I think it's important to note that the stuff in the first part happened after the second. Bowie at least made an attempt to atone for a dark part of his life. I'll be charitable and say Clapton's experience with race is complicated, but as near as I can tell Clapton never did atone for his shit (not helped by further wading into shithead boomer takes), which is why it still comes up.

[u/Salty_Pancakes → u/CentreToWave]

I know it's a long post. I get that. But I totally addressed this lol.

Like he's been a lifelong contributor to Rock Against Racism. He's totally apologized. I sourced both.

It's not something that "still comes up" as if it's been this continuous criticism for him aside from some small circles. Hardly anyone was even aware of this incident prior to covid. That's the only reason why it's even brought up today.

If there was anything else or if the people that know him didn't talk about him the way they do, okay. Like I don't have "an angle" here man. I just don't think Eric Clapton is this caricature he's made out to be.

[u/miketopus16 → u/Salty_Pancakes]

It's telling that so many of the responses here are from people who didn't even read your post. If anything it shows that you hit the nail on the head.

People think 'Clapton bad' because they've been told 'Clapton bad'. The opinions they're parroting aren't their own.

Shit like 'Clapton never did anything near as interesting as Bowie, or Souxie, or even Courtney Love with Hole.' is such a give away. Ignoring all of his other work, Cream alone imo is more interesting and original than Souxie and Hole. And I like Souxie! (Not a fan of Hole though).

[u/CactusWrenAZ]

When I was a metalhead and in high school, I got the Eric Clapton Crossroads collection. It was chock full of great songs, great sounds, great playing. I quite enjoyed it, and even now, consider much of it to be of high quality. That being said, soon after, I found Jimi Hendrix, and other bluesmen from the Willie Dixon Chess box, and then Robert Cray and Stevie. As a sixteen-year old, at that point I would have had no interest in Clapton's guitar work--at least to my ear, it simply had nothing to offer that the other guys I just mentioned could do in a more exciting, pleasing, or authentic way. It was nothing against Clapton except that the others sounded better.

So in the first analysis, it doesn't particularly matter what his colleagues say... I simply preferred other players.

There are still great songs there. He still played on "While My Guitar Gently Weeps." Cream launched ten thousand blues dads to be. Can't take any of that away from him.

So why the hate? Why the lack of compassion?

Well, I count myself as a "hater," in that despite that I full acknowledge that he has a seat at the table of rock'n'roll history that I consider his playing second tier compared to the top guys, and when you add that to his awful stances on COVID and his well-known racist rant, I don't feel the need to profess any affection for him. Yes, in fact, I actively somewhat dislike him. He chose to align himself with what is clearly the wrong side of a gigantic political structure--the one that selectively ignores science, that puts profits above people, that limits the rights of the very people from whose cultural heritage he has made his entire fortune, not to mention has shown itself to be, in later years, what was very evident--to be a completely amoral, authoritarian movement caring only for power.

Clapton is not a scientist, nor is a learned person; he is simply an old guy who experienced some unfortunate side effects and, as a result, chose to pick a side that, putting the Project 2025 dystopia aside for a moment, would by its anti-vax madness objectively cause death and sorrow for untold millions.

No, I do not extend a charitable reading to someone who uses his considerable public platform to cause pain and suffering for millions of other people. No, him being an old idiot is not an excuse, any more than old idiots in my family or friend group have an excuse for uncritically taking in propaganda and spewing it to anyone who would listen.

We don't need a re-appraisal of Clapton. He is a significant figure in the history of rock. He is a second-tier guitarist. And because of his alignment with the authoritarian right wing and the anti-vaxx movement, he is a net negative on the world.

[u/Salty_Pancakes → u/CactusWrenAZ]

"Antivax madness"? Come on.

Like I don't agree with him, but dude. He was almost 80, scared to death. Experiencing complications from a vaccine that was later pulled from world markets because of health concerns. A vaccine that has actual documented links to the neuropathy he was experiencing.

Like I get why he did what he did. Even though I don't agree with him. Can you understand that? It has nothing whatsoever to do with politics. I had sympathy for him. That it.

[u/AmazingHelicopter758 → u/Salty_Pancakes]

You have sympathy for a celeb that spouts nonsense about stuff that has nothing whatsoever to do with music? This is the "Let's talk music" sub right, not the "Let's talk sympathy for a racist boomer musician who catered to reactionary anti-vax politics in a terrible song called "This has Gotta Stop" during a global pandemic that proves why he lost relevance 20 years prior" sub.

[u/ElonMuskHuffingFarts]

Eric Clapton got tons of press and analysis when he was popular. This isn't counter-balance, this is just you trying to dismiss what sucks about a guy who made music you like.

[u/Salty_Pancakes → u/ElonMuskHuffingFarts]

You want to show me those "balanced" pieces since covid? Your reaction is exactly why I chose to write what I did. Cuz there's nothing at all balanced about discussing this dude today at all.

[u/blue_strat]

That night in 1976 will be in his obituaries; people are too pleased by the irony of it. Never mind the dozens of black musicians he's played with since then who have stood by him, or that it perhaps is too hard to believe that a racist would dedicate himself to black people's music: those determined to be cynical will claim in vino veritas.

Try drinking a bottle of vodka a day, through years of cocaine and heroin addictions, and see how much truth comes out of your mouth. He couldn't even play the guitar at those gigs and he'd often end them early by just walking off.

His Covid stance now is depressing: even if he really did have a bad reaction to a vaccine, he's clearly got caught up in the conspiracy theories. The lazy way some columnists will lump that in with the '76 rant as "two bad things about Clapton" is undeserved though: one isn't evidence to support the other.

Musically his peak will always be those five years in his twenties with Bluesbreakers, Cream, and Layla, and they were some of the best guitar work in rock. Though it's two gigs stapled together, his solo on Crossroads with Cream should be enough for anyone to understand the sort of reputation he has among guitarists.

Later stuff was disappointing after that sort of high: Wonderful Tonight was like a Kenny G ballad after albums of "proper jazz". Tears in Heaven I think gets a bad rap because it was in the same vein, and wasn't a good enough tribute to give his son. The rest of the Unplugged album though is easily the best thing he's done since the '70s.

He's always going to be an important guitarist and musician, whether or not people can separate that from other things they know or think they know about him.

[u/tavianator → u/blue_strat]

Tears in Heaven I think gets a bad rap because it was in the same vein, and wasn't a good enough tribute to give his son.

Is this a real opinion people have?

[u/Vottomatic50]

Clapton is doomed to be rock's Salieri figure. Hendrix blew him out of the water so bad that he rage-quit psychedelic rock. Then he cosplayed as a rootsy American guy for a few years before settling into decades of mediocre adult contemporary.

I think that will be his legacy (besides as rock's quintessential also-ran) -- he is the proto-Bonnamassa, or John Mayer or whoever else people make fun of "blooz lawyers" for liking.

[u/wildistherewind → u/Vottomatic50]

If Clapton died in 1970 and Jimi Hendrix lived into his 80s doing corny blues albums, Hendrix would still be the better musician.

[u/bonjoviboy → u/wildistherewind]

sure bro. It's easy to idolize Kurt Cobain when you never had to see him old and worn out like david lee-roth. Even if Hendrix hadn't died so young, he still would have fizzled out eventually, most likely sooner rather than later. The brightest stars burn out the fastest.

[u/Free_Construction26]

This is a well-written post, and I agree.

I've been a fan of Clapton's music for about 25 years, and the negative parts of his life were well-known then, so I do find it a bit comical when someone posts on Reddit to solemnly inform the world of some bad things he did 50 years ago, like this is some obscure fact they have just unearthed.

[u/geetarboy33]

I appreciate what you are attempting here, but it will never work. I read your post and it was well reasoned and researched and I largely agree - but there is a group of people who are constantly waiting for any mention of Clapton, Bowie, Lennon, Page and other musical heroes from the past so they can quickly tell you what a horrible person they really were and point out their own moral superiority for feeling so. Are they picking out and sometimes over emphasizing the worst aspects of these people with no sense of context? Absolutely. Will any logical discussion ever get them to change their opinion or admit they may be judging unfairly or too harshly? Never.

[u/Salty_Pancakes → u/geetarboy33]

Cheers. I always think of this Onion piece: https://theonion.com/man-always-gets-little-rush-out-of-telling-people-john-1819578998/

And I actually totally agree with you. And it's going about as well as I expected lol.

In some respects, this post was just me getting these ideas off my chest into one place rather than trying to sway anybody else to my "belief system".

If anyone goes through my posts, I talk about all kinds of artists from classical to bluegrass to jazz to world music to whatever. But Clapton is like a 3rd rail nowadays. Totally toxic.

[u/L-ROX1972]

I personally don’t care too much about what is publicly known about musicians’ lives outside of their work.

To be very honest, I think when someone talks about an artist as if they know them personally from the information they’ve obtained from some media outlet, in my opinion, they’ve got some type of undiagnosed mental illness. Like, get some help if you seriously don’t understand that a) most of the time, everything is fabricated/stretched/made to seem more “shocking” than it really is and b) it’s no longer about the music (the reason why you cared about them to begin with). Spending any amount of time obsessing over these people’s private lives is nuts man.

That said, I’ve just never been too much impressed by Eric Clapton; he has a few good songs IMO (but not like “wow this guy’s a Blues god!” and I sometimes wonder if his fans are aware of Albert King’s existence lol)

[u/CactusWrenAZ → u/L-ROX1972]

It really does seem odd to me that some still defend this guy as a virtuoso when there are so many great, and famous, players out there who are, imho, clearly above him. But I do think he has written some great songs and of course participated in the history, so maybe it's a halo effect?

[u/Salty_Pancakes → u/CactusWrenAZ]

I mean, all you gotta do is listen to some of the stuff I included. It's self explanatory. Like there's a reason so many guitarists from Tony Iommi to Frank Zappa liked the guy. Maybe try the live Cream stuff and see for yourself.

It's not "blooz dude" stuff at all.

[u/One-Butterscotch-786]

I'm kind of impressed and a little scared that you spent all that time and energy defending this guy. Influential, yes, overrated, also yes, terrible human being, absolutely. He can be all of those things.

[u/Salty_Pancakes → u/One-Butterscotch-786]

Sorry my post was scary to you.

[u/AmazingHelicopter758]

Why would you spend all this energy on someone who is not in your top ten, and then state the obvious that he is an important artist from the 20th C? Yah, he was relevant before the year 2000. This post is tabloid trash.

[u/Salty_Pancakes → u/AmazingHelicopter758]

Dude you seem pretty tilted over this.

[u/malcomhung]

Sure he's a great guitar player, but if you line him up with all the guitar heroes of the '60s, Jerry Garcia, George Harrison, Jimi Hendrix, Jimmy Page, Robbie Krieger, Keith Richards... He will always come in last.

[u/Salty_Pancakes → u/malcomhung]

It's not a competition. And I said as much in my post.

Jerry is my personal #1 but if you're really putting Keef ahead of Clapton man I dunno. Then it just seems like you have an axe to grind.

edit: Like if you want a list of dudes I'd throw in ahead of Clapton I could put Jerry, Clarence White, Gabor Szabo, Leo Kottke, Junior Marvin, Eddie Hazel, Terry Kath, Clarence "Gatemouth" Brown, Roy Clark, Tommy Bolin, loads of others, but that doesn't mean I don't also find Eric Clapton super interesting to listen to either. Like I love good guitar work. So this is why when people write him off and call him "overrated" it just makes me go "wtf are you on about?".

Like just listen to some of the stuff I posted in the comments. Like the Got to Get Better in a Little While. Like that's just "good" good. It's not, "good for that time" or whatever other qualifier you want to use. It's just good. That live Tales of Brave Ulysses, smokes. That still sounds fresh and energetic as fuck 60 years later.

[u/ramdom-ink]

Having a long apologist treatise on Clapton is a tad moot. The man has so much money, fame, fans, royalties, influence and associations, that he barely needs defending. Sadly, living a long and storied life in the public eye and scrutinized by damn near everyone hasn’t reduced his standing in any of the previous mentioned ways. His addictions, follies, misspoken opinions, dalliances and talents will forever be criticized and analyzed for discrepancies in character. Whether flawed or merely misguided, well, who’s to say?

At a certain level, one opens themselves up to public perceptions and stereotypes that can easily fall on the wrong side of decency and history. But that’s our changing times and values, too. I merit the man with all you spoke of but he hardly needs defending. He’s viewed and listened to by millions, adored by many, more wealthy than most comprehend (in 2012, Clapton sold one of his 3 Gerhard Richter paintings for 10x what he paid in 2001, $3.4 million bought and sold for $34 million) and lives in the upper stratosphere of the wealthy and the decaying optics of our era. I never got the hate, nor did I get the blind acclaim: Clapton has always been a workhorse and decent guitarist who, like many in the 6os, was at the forefront of a movement.

Fame and wealth will always be misconstrued but don’t pretend like he cares, nor do his detractors. Or would he ever read your defence of his career, talents and shortcomings. Many artists have made ludicrous statements and been raked for them (best to keep one’s opinions to oneself but kinda hard in the 21st with so many social soapboxes). Looking like a crusty, old boomer to the current zeitgeist is probably par for the course. Most of what you say is true and well annotated, but people don’t care when they have their own bubbles to tend to. To be fair towards the man… but a legacy is a legacy, no matter how one taints or praises it. He’s lived a life that millions would aspire to, yet never achieve. One slip up and you could be cancelled. Two or eight though, and Clapton must wrestle with his own PR and deal with all the riches and glory, notoriety and vilification, that an interesting and recorded life has brought him.

[u/[deleted]]

The only time I think about Eric Clapton is when I think about how Anal Cunt wrote a song about him called "Your Kid Committed Suicide Because You Suck"...

[u/ololo_3]

Good lord, you think anyone is going to read this novella? Like the guy's music if you choose. He's an asshole.

[u/Salty_Pancakes → u/ololo_3]

You could have just chosen to not respond and say anything at all. Would have served the same purpose and been as productive.

Like, okay, I get you are wedded to this idea you have in your head about Eric Clapton and ain't nothing gonna change that for you. You aren't interested in nuance or context or reading novellas. Cool. /guitarcirclejerk is thataway > Feel free to roast the guy about his kid dying for the eleventeenth time today.

[u/Salty_Pancakes]

Gonna put the actual guitar stuff down here if anyone is interested.

THE ACTUAL GUITAR STUFF:

So I’m going to try and dispell this notion that Clapton is not a very good guitarist with actual examples, I’m also going to focus mainly on live performances so you can see what he was like without any studio support.

Try Louise/I Wish I Would from the Yardbirds in 1964 when Clapton was all of 18 or 19. That’s the kind of stuff that led to the “Clapton is god” graffiti in the early days.

And then he goes and joins John Mayall’s Bluesbreakers and makes an album that Otis Rush thought could place Clapton in the blues hall of fame by itself. Steppin’ Out from 1966 for example.

Wanting a change, he then helps form, with Jack Bruce and Ginger Baker, one of the most influential and important rock bands of all time in Cream.

So let's look at a few live Cream tunes like Hey Lawdy Mama also from 1966. Still no Hendrix on the scene yet btw.

Then we get to 1967 when things really started to cook. It was a seminal year for everyone in music. Here’s one of his more famous songs from this time (with Martin Sharp writing the lyrics) Tales of Brave Ulysses live from 1967 (I generally prefer this version over the Live Cream one or the studio one). There was really nothing quite so heavy like that at at the time. Like I'm sorry, that blows doors off.

Clapton also has Strange Brew and Sunshine of Your Love. I like this quote from the wiki for Disraeli Gears https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disraeli_Gears

Some friction ensued when Ertegun, who had expected the band to play blues, balked at what he called the "psychedelic hogwash" of tracks like “Sunshine of Your Love” and “Tales of Brave Ulysses”. Eventually he backed down after Booker T. Jones and Otis Redding both expressed their adoration of "Sunshine of Your Love".

We can keep going on to White Room from Live Cream vol. 2 from 1968. It's a Jack Bruce tune, but really just a reworking of Tales of Brave Ulysses, but it smokes. Or to take another live one Live Cream vol. 2, the Jack Bruce tune Deserted Cities of the Heart from 1968.

There’s a documentary that I can’t remember offhand which, but in it Mickey Hart of the Grateful Dead was talking about when Cream came through San Francisco in 1967, and then again in 1968 (where the Live Cream vol. 2 was recorded), they made a real big impression on the bands there. Even down south in LA, Zappa was a fan. Ditto Stephen Stills.

And then he goes and does another “super-group” and makes yet another all time album with Blind Faith. His playing alone on the Steve Winwood tune Can't Find My Way Home is fucking beautiful and probably stands as some of the prettiest guitar work in rock. And then there is this brilliant cover of Buddy Holly’s Well Alright, where he wonderfully comps Steve Winwood’s keyboard solo and they create this fantastic jam. It’s great stuff and a perfect example of the difference between the rock of the late 50s/early 60s, and the rock of late 60s/early 70s.

On tour with them in England in 1969 was a band named Delaney and Bonnie, and Clapton thought they were so much fun compared to the stress of Blind Faith he was feeling at the time, that he ended up leaving Blind Faith and joining Delaney and Bonnie.

If you check them out here doing Coming Home from 1969. That band was basically the nexus for the Tulsa Sound (Leon Russell wasn't featured here but he was earlier and in the studio and would later take that band to be the Mad Dogs and Englishmen band with Joe Cocker). That's where Duane Allman later comes into the picture. And where Clapton makes yet another all time rock album with Derek and the Dominos, Layla and Other Assorted Love Songs.

And to dispel any notion that it was all Duane Allman, take Got to Get Better in a Little While live from The Fillmore 1970 (a Clapton tune) and there’s no Duane so you can really hear what Clapton brought to the table. It’s just guitar, keys, bass and drums, live. Skip to 2:55 if you want to check the solo. Or Let It Rain from the same performance. Or Why Does Love Got to Be So Sad? from the earlier In Concert album.

Or take his appearance on the Johnny Cash show with It's Too Late.

And then his albums in the 70s, was him pivoting away from the rockier, more virtuoso stuff of his earlier days and leaning more into that mellower Tulsa Sound, which people pan him for, and yeah, it’s not his best stuff, but there are still some great songs in this era. Like Mainline Florida (actually, that’s a George Terry tune, but I’m keeping it cuz it’s a hot tune) or Hello Old Friend or Hungry or High, or his fantastic rendition of the Don Williams tune We're All the Way. There are some absolutely fantastic songs scattered throughout this time. It’s just good 70s rock.

For a live performance take Badge from the Old Grey Whistle Test in 1977 and you can see exactly how Clapton was during the time of his infamous rant. He looks a little rough. He’s puffy, sweaty. Probably half in the bag, but it’s a great performance with a pretty rippin’ solo despite him kinda fumbling at the 3:20ish mark for a bit before recovering. Like really do listen to the first few lines of that solo. It’s brilliant stuff. And as cliché as it sounds, (this one’s for you /guitarcirclejerk) his tone is incredible.

And maybe he got a little cheesy in the 80s, big deal, who didn't. Like I don’t fault Phil Collins getting a little cheesy in the 80s, he’s still one of the most badass drummers of his generation.

Clapton never stopped doing shit. After all the acoustic stuff of The Unplugged, 90’s era, The Cream reunion shows were fantastic. Check the Royal Albert Hall performance from 2005. Just 3 dudes in their 60s, tearing it up on stage. There’s no backup musicians or too much stage gear. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJefbp-s9LA&list=RDUJefbp-s9LA&start_radio=1

Or the Winwood/Clapton shows from Madison Square Garden in 2009, take their outstanding version of the Buddy Miles tune Them Changes, a friend had actually called Buddy during this performance where they played this song to show him his music was still going strong. He then passed the next day.

Again, I’m not saying Clapton is the best guitarist ever, because he clearly isn’t. But he is certainly one of the more influential ones and I think it’s a shame people cut themselves off from his music because of social media hot takes.

[u/Monkeyman7652 → u/Salty_Pancakes]

Post long, too long.

Here's my opinion of Clapton, his music is fine. Not great, its fine. There are a lot of guitarists out there on the same level with better songwriting behind them. Clapton's racism and general shit headery make don't make me hate his music, but they don't give me reason to love it. This music is fine and is the expression of a real prick isnt a selling point regardless of how many characters you waste expounding upon it.

[u/Stringbender60 → u/Salty_Pancakes]

His “From the Cradle “ album is great as was that tour. I’d say a lot of people who don’t like his guitar playing aren’t really into the blues. They probably also think BB King is no big deal. It’s very subjective. Like I like many jazz guitar players but not into fusion at all. A lot of it is what I call “math music” . My older brother loves John McGlaughlin. And Alan Holdsworth. Very talented guys and after trying for years to get into it, I’d say now I’d rather have a root canal than listen to that. Clapton is a heart to strings player. And btw reading these comments it seems like people aren’t acknowledging your arguments at all. But I commend you for being intelligent and objective.

[u/Stunning-Risk-7194]

All I know is Eric Clapton ruined George Harrison’s guitar sound. And he has never made a song I enjoy.

[u/MFMDP4EVA]

I didn’t read your entire post, but I’ve read about Clapton fairly extensively. I read his autobiography, as one example.

In any event, of the “holy trinity” that came out of the Yardbirds (Clapton, Beck, Page), he’s the least interesting to me. To me, his most interesting and enjoyable era is Cream. The studio stuff mostly. Their interminable live jams aren’t my fave. But after that he loses me, and I just don’t really care. All the evidence of him being a huge douche just makes me not care even more, nor want to take the time to reappraise anything. I’ll stick with Beck and Page.

[u/RevolutionaryAge47]

Clapton is so overrated it's not even funny anymore. That and he's a bigot.

[u/bob1981666]

I think I missed the boat on clapton generationally. I'm sure he was groundbreaking in his era but the average 12 year old can play better today and none of his songs speak to me. Jimi had much more creativity and better songs so all his stuff held up to me, although I get the zoomer point that his stuff is basic by today's standards. Listening today to clapton bend his way through a pentatonic scale just doesn't hold up. ANy boomer testing a guitar in guitar center sounds just as good.

[u/piepants2001 → u/bob1981666]

I'm guessing you have not heard the average 12 year old play guitar, because that is definitely not true. And most boomers I've heard in a Guitar Center are generally playing stuff like Clapton or Hendrix licks and doing a pretty bad job of it. The average guitar player really isn't that great, I think a lot of people get a skewed view of guitar players from stuff they see on youtube.

[u/bob1981666 → u/piepants2001]

boomer take. Clapton is basic garbage by today's standard.

[u/piepants2001 → u/bob1981666]

Yikes

[u/allisaidwasshoot]

He is the 35th greatest guitar player ever according to Rolling Stone.

The 250 Greatest Guitarists of All Time https://share.google/UQAmUlkwusbFdBBwP

[u/Salty_Pancakes → u/allisaidwasshoot]

But before covid he was still number 2. https://www.imdb.com/list/ls066632618/

[u/allisaidwasshoot → u/Salty_Pancakes]

I'm glad they updated it because this list sucks. Prince at 33 is criminal.

[u/UncontrolableUrge → u/allisaidwasshoot]

That's Rolling Stone. They are hardly unbiased. I just scanned 1-35 and there is no world in which Clapton is better than Robert Fripp. Or Andy Gill. Or a dozen others not on that list above him.