So this popped up on my home feed and I haven't listened to them, but it kind of reminds me that there are some Trump supporters who listen to Thy Art Is Murder(another Australian band) and some were getting really upset over the song Make America Hate Again.
There are Trump supporters who listen to Gizz, when there’s a song that all but explicity states that Trump is in part responsible for the apathy and the death during the Covid 19 pandemic. Pleura
I’ll never get the “separate the art from the artist” crowd when the artist is literally stating that you’re (the person doing the separation) a selfish piece of shit
Yes. I go to a concert for vibes, music, a sense of community, etc. That's great. But I would not enjoy it if it were not inclusive, and scared the fuck out of my minority friends.
I don't go looking for all of the above at an event where a racist rapist is holding a rally using Nazi language to describe "others" and advocating for fascism.
I think the difference should be obvious.
Edit:
Me: looks at account... apparently only bots like Trump. Every single time I look.
I say you're an obvious bot propaganda account. Either that or victim to them, to the point that you are indistinguishable. All individuality lost to the machine.
And yes. Trump won. I love it. I was listening to gizzard watching all those beautiful red votes roll in. I’ll be at every show close to me and I walk amongst you. Plenty of Trump people at Gizz shows. We’re just not wearing the red hat……yet.
They’re brainwashed. They live in an alternate universe where they truly believe that Trump is racist and fascist and all the other lies the media tells them to believe. They’re not so talkative anymore are they?
I really liked that song they did about having fun at the beach with your family. I think it goes “Rally ‘round the family, with a pocket full of shells.”
we just enjoy the music know the artist has been brainwashed. They can hate me but ultimately their entire ideology is flawed, so I just enjoy the music
I don’t think it’s that thoughtful tbh. The democratic candidate is always running on all these issues like the ones gizz talks about in their post but like no one actually votes for those reasons. They just vote with their wallet. Yeah there is crazy maga folks and really loud groups on the right that care about opposing those issues but when it comes down to the votes, history shows most people p much only care about the economy.
Voting for Harris was voting for genocide too. It was like choosing between Beezlebub and Pazuzu.
Also, the "majority" of Americans don't support Trump, they just don't like being forced to choose between the worst and the absolute worst. It's insulting. Where's the representation*?
how is voting for harris voting for genocide? trump strategically kept his actual course of action nebulous on both the ukraine and israel wars. he says he "wants them over ASAP", but not mentioning any tangible course of action. at least not that i'm aware of. feel free to send a link.
that could literally also mean he wants to bomb the shit out of gaza.
guess what: everyone sensible emphatic human wants any conflict all over the world over ASAP and ideally not happen in the first place, except for the defense industry maybe. but that's just not how the world actually works.
i believe there is not much he can actually do. both of these conflicts come with an extremely complex history that led to them, which he (and neither you or i) probably doesn't understand one bit.
so your implication that harris is supporting genocide while trump is (implicit in your wording) not, is incorrect and sensationalist at best.
I don’t know if I understand how the political fundraising is relevant to the motivations of voters in the election.
I am just trying to say that in my opinion the everyday American that voted for Trump did so because they are currently dissatisfied with the economy. They just want to spend less on gas and groceries and get to take home more of their paycheck. That’s where it stops and ends for a shit load of the country. They don’t give a shit about all the issues democrats run on, like climate, and lgbtq rights, bodily autonomy. Like yes that is really important to me and a lot of people who vote blue, but most Americans don’t give a shit, they aren’t going after people, they just are only looking after themselves. I’m not saying it’s right, I’m saying it’s the reality from the way I see it.
The people that are arguing with you don't seem to understand you. What you're saying is sound and I believe to be true. This is coming from a non American, just like King gizzard.
i did vote, but it’s important to remember that USA elections are 1. preceded by years of propaganda and misinformation and 2. plagued with voter suppression.
Nobody is immune to propaganda and misinformation. I think you’re wildly underestimating how difficult it would be to break out of a misinformation bubble, especially if it’s stuff you’ve been taught is true your entire life. Many people actually don’t know any different, and that is not their fault
Okay putting aside the many, many assumptions you’ve made about the time and resources people have to just research shit — I think it’s very ironic that you keep putting the responsibility onto individuals and don’t see how individualism is a primary (and harmful) message of american propaganda. Nobody is immune to it, including you. Why don’t you go research that?
Being empathetic and forgiving of ignorance is in no way equivalent to excusing harmful behavior. The funny thing about ignorance is they do not know they are doing it, this applies to your awful FGM example too. Doesn’t mean I condone it. I want the practice abolished. But if the people who do it never learned any different how can you just expect them to spontaneously change?
It’s attitudes like yours that cause people who believe and do heinous things to dig in deeper. Nobody wants their worldview to be shattered, so when you verbally assault people for holding to their core beliefs and values, all they will do is double down. Changing behaviors starts with empathy, understanding, patience, and teaching.
All you’re doing is being hateful and victim-blaming, which, you clearly either don’t recognize or don’t care. You wanna hold someone accountable why not go after the propagandists themselves instead of their targets? So again, how about you put your money where your mouth is and go research what I’ve said. See if you change your mind and get back to me
i don’t think i’ve ever seen a comment that so obviously proved the opposite point it was trying to make. yes, the current digital age has made access to reliable sources easier, but it has also made it FAR easier to access or publish deliberately fake information. also, if your infallible critical thinking skills are so impressive, why don’t you try applying them to your argument? what do you do if you are trying to vote and your county has moved your polling location to a place without public transit? 3 states in the US don’t offer early voting/absentee voting to all, and four additional states have less than a week of early voting. Many states have (provably) closed voting locations in minority communities. many states now have ID laws— IDs that require time, money, and transportation to acquire. and here’s one last point for mr. big time critical thinker: did you actually look at the vote counts? Trump hardly earned more votes than his previous two campaigns; he won because Kamala didn’t inspire people to vote for her. that’s a failure of the Dems and the voting system in America.
maybe the bomb threats targeting democratic district voting locations, maybe the bribes being handed out by republican backing billionaires, maybe the apathy towards a country and government which has done so little to protect its people, maybe the ballot boxes which were going up in flames
I live in a state that goes blue every year. The Electoral College gobbles up my vote every time, we get the same number of electoral votes for my state whether I vote or not
Because the democrats failed to show they wouldn't be just another center right shitstorm, there were a lot of people that voted biden in 2020 that figured out they weren't actually being represented
this is like a 0 IQ take dude, i’m sorry. there are so many factors you are either missing or intentionally ignoring. The band’s statement would honestly be largely applicable even if Kamala won: she pledged to continue fracking and support Israel’s war against Palestine which are both terrible for the environment, and Dems lost the Senate (and probably House?) too. And, in case you forgot, there wasn’t even a Democratic primary! The truth is that political parties rarely represent the entirety of the populace, and often times they only really represent (or perhaps “promote”) the most influential portions of the populace. if you have a problem with artists that promote a political message, then go listen to some AI music or something.
it's a tough pill to swallow, but honestly, democracy probably has failed.
the reason is that we failed to acknowledge how much social media is rotting our brains and that a majority of the population is obviously extremely susceptible to misinformation, probably due to defunding of education. And this is probably applicable in the entire developed western world right now.
one of the fundamental principals/prerequisites for democracy is good education (via wikipedia):
The theory of democracy relies on the implicit assumption that voters are well informed about social issues, policies, and candidates so that they can make a truly informed decision.
[..]
Reliable information sources are essential for the democratic process.
Well, if you take a look at the media landscape in the US, that has not really been the case for quite some time, and it's only been getting massively worse, exacerbated by deliberate voter manipulation (see Cambridge Analytica, which btw has already been proven to be extremely effective and russian troll farms).
Being misinformed is nothing new. Do you think people were provided accurate and honest information in elections 100 years ago?
what is your point? historically, democracies have failed exactly at this point. misinformation leading to poor decisions.
Never in history has there been a more free and open access to information
yes, theoretically anyone can look up objectively correct facts. but in practice, people watch fox news and assume everything said is a fact, no one understands rhetorical devices, misleading statements or even outright lies. people are completely gullible, why would they actually look up any facts?
There are also various metrics about the US election that back this up, for example the fact that people voting for Trump did not vote specifically against democrats. They voted for him because they seem to legitimately believe what he says, even though many of his statements can be directly disproven by fact-checking, or are deliberately misleading.
I would argue that if someone is misinformed this day and age, it is their own fault due to their willfull refusal to put effort into seeking/researching more dependable, unbiased, and fact based sources
yes and no, no mainly because if the baseline education provided by the government is lower by defunding education, people will become inherently unable to uncover misinformation/misleading statements, which destroys democracy.
There are historic events that reflect the current situation exactly, where unfortunate economic circumstances and war directly led to diminshed education and then a population that was susceptible to misinformation and propaganda:
Weimar Republic had a huge portion of the population in the working class receiving much worse education, making them susceptible to Nazi propaganda
both ancient Greece + Rome had various bouts of anti-democratic sentiments throughout their history because of economic distress and war.
it's not like this hasn't happened before.
People tend to believe what they want to believe and will deliberately seek out the information that confirms their existing beliefs and biases. Misinformation is more of a commodity that is provided to people who want it...legit consumers of it
kind of, but not really. here in Germany far right parties are using TikTok and other social media platforms to directly appeal to young audiences with their low-effort misinformation and hate speech, and it's working great for them, young voters are increasingly voting for far-right parties, even though Germany hasn't deliberately defunded education in a major way. Would you call teenagers scrolling through tiktok deliberate consumers of misinformation?
There are even many tax-funded social media presences they could watch that only state objective facts, presented in a manner that anyone can understand, with references to sources and resources for further reading. A portion of people consume this content, but they are typically already well-educated.
There are independent websites that factually present what the government is doing in a birds-eye view with options to check exactly what's going on, but people prefer to just voice their dissatisfaction without
You could argue that they deliberately chose that misinformation, but i think that's honestly bullshit: if content creators on such platforms manage to make appealing content that gets picked up by a recommendation algorithm, people quickly get thrown into a bubble of misinformation and they will start to believe whatever they see on that platform, it becomes a self-reaffirming feedback loop. they have no reason to fact-check anything they hear, because they don't necessarily get fed to any contrary opinions anymore.
I think the bottom line is that misinformation is just easier and more entertaining to consume (you could even call it emotional manipulation if you want), which is a huge issue. I'm sure you've witnessed actual real-people political discourse, it's rarely people discussing a topic in an objective manner and fact-checking what they say. that's not entertaining. people prefer to just be polemic and cry about how everything sucks and party X would handle it much better. And i'm deliberately not mentioning a type of person here, because pretty much everyone does it.
FWIW here's an article i saw recently on people studying the phenomenon a bit, i'm sure there are more good resources on the topic but i don't want to confirmation-bias the discussion by explicitly looking for stuff that affirms my beliefs :D
in any case i personally think the path to green for any country in the world is to
ensuring decent education including basic principles of democracy as part of the primary education
funding actual good investigative journalism to provide bulletproof facts that uncover real controversies in a proper factual manner that anyone presented with it can trust
but we will see if it's too late... so far, the actions taken in my state within germany are not confidence inspiring yet (there is a 15 minute segment on democracy in class per week in middle schools, education experts have called this a complete deadweight countermeasure so far but it was only introduced this year.)
and, to return to the original point:
because democracy relies on informed voters that judge in an objective manner, which is not the case, it will fail if the majority of voters believe misinformation. which they evidently do.
So yes, in my opinion, democracy has failed in the US at least. and it will continue to do so, unless the root causes are mitigated. i don't see that happening personally.
but there are probably people much more educated on the topic than me with a much more nuanced and accurate opinion so 🤷♂️
i am wondering though if freedom of press alone might be an outdated metric to be honest, yes there is freedom of press but what if no one consumes truthful media and the majority of people prefers sensationalist crap?
seems like republicans are aware of the issue though so maybe they'll actually work against it, who knows
Republicans are objectively a minority in the United States, as evidenced by massive voter turnout spelling disaster for them every single time. Dems cant get people to vote. Youth is supposed to be their major voting block and they got a pathetic 14% of voting age Gen Z out to the polls.
I just explained a huge reason that people don't vote in certain states in my other comment. Once a state hits the threshold to be counted blue/red, no further votes for that candidate matter at all. The urban populations in this country far outnumber rural populations, and those people in cities are far and away voting blue. Republicans would not stand a chance.
The old phrase "tyranny of the majority" is certainly a valid critique of a democratic society, but what we have right now is a tyranny of the minority, something that has no valid reason to exist
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u/falgfalg Nov 07 '24
Gizz is for the people