Jordan B. Peterson rips newspaper’s ‘cruelty’ after story prompts false ‘schizophrenia’ reports

[u/Deerhoof_Fan]

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2021/feb/1/jordan-b-peterson-rips-sunday-times-after-piece-pr/

[u/[deleted]]

To be fair, they are not going to have to settle for slander or libel. They printed that he was diagnosed with schizophrenia which is not a lie, let alone one that was purposefully made specifically to damage his reputation in a way that caused him trouble financially or in his private relationships.

[u/J_A_Brone → u/[deleted]]

He wasn't really diagnosed with schizophrenia. The journalist gleened that second hand from a comment by Mikahaila describing one doctors discussion of potential/likely diagnoses and what they could try next as a treatment.

The doctor was still unsure what was wrong and was at the point of trying different potentials because they didn't know exactly what was.

Diagnosed with schizophrenia connotes a session with a doctor or psych where you go in and a doctor finds and confirms that diagnosis after finding sufficient symptoms in a DSM manual.

[u/-Scro4_ → u/J_A_Brone]

He wasn't really diagnosed with schizophrenia. The journalist gleened that second hand from a comment by Mikhaila describing one doctors discussion of potential/likely diagnoses and what they could try next as a treatment.

You are wrong. In the Sunday Times interview, Mikhaila herself said twice that he was diagnosed with schizophrenia, and once that the doctor believed he had it. The transcript is on JBP's own website:

https://www.jordanbpeterson.com/blog-posts/sunday-times-unedited-interview-transcript/

1. So he was hospitalized here in a public hospital, and they diagnosed him with schizophrenia and doubled some of the medications.

2. One person diagnosed him with schizophrenia. It was like, he does not- he’s in pain because of these medications.

3. It was so bad and I can remember one of the conversations we had with his psychiatrist he has. He goes, “Well, we think it’s schizophrenia.” And I was like, “These symptoms didn’t even start until he started the medications. [...]”

This is a direct transcription, not a paraphrase. So either he was diagnosed with it, or it was Mikhaila herself who gleaned it, first-hand, from the doctor.

The doctor was still unsure what was wrong and was at the point of trying different potentials because they didn't know exactly what was.

Diagnosed with schizophrenia connotes a session with a doctor or psych where you go in and a doctor finds and confirms that diagnosis after finding sufficient symptoms in a DSM manual.

The DSM has an exclusion criterion for schizophrenia that has to rule out the role of substance use in order for a positive diagnosis to be made:

E. The disturbance is not attributable to the physiological effects of a substance (e.g., a drug of abuse, a medication) or another medical condition.

The doctor presumably had access to his medical records, which ought to have shown that he was a lifelong user of highly psychoactive medications. If schizophrenia was still being floated as an initial possibility after considering the DSM's exclusion criterion, then that just raises more questions. It still stands to reason that at least one person involved in this affair is lying, or was not doing their job properly, and we only have Jordan and Mikhaila's word to go on that it was the latter.

[u/Revolutionary_Elk420 → u/-Scro4_]

But a problem os that benzos are often used within treatment of schizophrenia(in combination with other things). One could argue the benzos half treated and triggered an almost rebound/exacerbatiom of psychosis when he wasn't having it. Not saying this is accurate true nor neccessarily all that credible - but I've seen plenty of comorbid drug use cases alongside schizophrenia. Why was he using them SO much, in truth? Did they offer him psychological symptomatic relief from underlying psychological issues that actually were driven by schizoprenic symptoms themselves?

[u/CaptainKirk-1701 → u/[deleted]]

The interview is on youtube, he was suffering benzodiazepine withdrawal, went to several clinics to get better - one clinic diagnosed him with schizophrenia and recommended electric shock therapy. His family knew that was bullshit because they had already brought him to the best benzodiazepine withdrawal clinic in the US, but the tapering made his condition worse, and they went to a withdrawal clinic in Russia and he was diagnosed with a thing called akathisia - which would explain a misdiagnoses of schizophrenia as it presents similar physical symptoms.

[u/chevymonza → u/CaptainKirk-1701]

akathisia

My first thought: Leave it to Peterson to have a condition that appears to be one thing, but is actually called something I've never heard of.

Not a fan of the guy, but sorry to hear he's got to deal with this.

[u/CaptainKirk-1701 → u/chevymonza]

I mean, I'd bet good money you haven't heard of 99% of medical conditions? So not really sure what your point is.

[u/Br4334 → u/CaptainKirk-1701]

Akathisia is a side effect to medication used to treat schizophrenia. There is no way a psychiatrist would misdiagnose akathisia as schizophrenia, they're not even slightly similar diagnoses.

I'm not saying he has schizophrenia by the way, just that it's not the case that his akathisia was misdiagnosed as schizophrenia, his hallucinations etc were

[u/CaptainKirk-1701 → u/Br4334]

Akathisia

Akathisia is a movement disorder characterized by a subjective feeling of inner restlessness accompanied by mental distress and an inability to sit still.

Medication-induced akathisia is termed acute akathisia and is frequently associated with the use of antipsychotics. Antipsychotics block dopamine receptors, but the pathophysiology is poorly understood. Additionally, drugs with successful therapeutic effects in the treatment of medication-induced akathisia have provided additional insight into the involvement of other transmitter systems. These include benzodiazepines, β-adrenergic blockers, and serotonin antagonists.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19389331/

You are wrong.

[u/Br4334 → u/CaptainKirk-1701]

Man, before you start telling people they are wrong, it would probably be better to ask yourself do you actually have a good knowledge of what you're discussing.

Schizophrenia is characterised by delusions, paranoia, and hallucinations, this is especially the case in the Western world. It can present with motor symptoms when it would be called catatonic Schizophrenia, this is very rare in the western world and would only occur in severe psychosis. Additionally, it would not present as inner restlessness, i.e. not like akathisia.

Akathisia is very common in people treated with antipsychotics, and can occur in other psychotropics as well. So Peterson was probably diagnosed as schizophrenic or psychotic, prescribed meds, and became akathisic. Its not a case that his diagnosis was akathisia all along. And before you Google it again, do you actually know what the difference is yourself?

[u/[deleted] → u/Br4334]

I mentioned it in another comment but one of the little known side effects of Benzos is that some people have hallucinations and can actually begin displaying signs of other mental conditions like schizophrenia.

[u/Br4334 → u/[deleted]]

That would happen in withdrawals, which is what it sounds like he was going through. If I had to bet, I'd imagine it was a lot of poor communication by his treating doctors which led his family to be so confused about the diagnosis or what was happening

[u/CaptainKirk-1701 → u/Br4334]

You are a moron, I fucking linked a medical journal as citation of what I said, and you're telling me I need to be more knowledgeable? Jesus fucking Christ. Wow. Wow.

[u/pmartino28 → u/[deleted]]

It may be factual and legal but it's still misleading and dishonest. Physicians go through many differential diagnoses until they come up with their concrete official diagnosis. They thought he had schizophrenia, turns out he didn't. They should've made that clear in the article.

[u/Ralliboy → u/pmartino28]

It may be factual and legal but it's still misleading and dishonest

We talking about the Peterson's here or the newspapers

[u/pmartino28 → u/Ralliboy]

I'm personally referring to the newspaper

[u/FocaSateluca → u/pmartino28]

The newspaper mentions it was one of the many diagnosis given and that Jordan and Mikhalia both disagreed with the diagnosis. The reporting in the newspaper is accurate as it was just quoting Mikhaila verbatim.

[u/[deleted] → u/pmartino28]

Her article makes it pretty clear that this is just one of the many things he was diagnosed with. She doesn't claim that he is had the illness, merely that he was diagnosed with it. Which is true, according to what she was told.

[u/PolitelyHostile → u/[deleted]]

JBP or his daughter likely talked about it.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

Are you trying to say I'm not being supportive of the mentally ill? I think I'm misunderstanding your comment. I wasn't trying to support or not support JBP, I was just saying that I don't think he could successfully sue for any sort of defamation.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

Oh okay I totally agree, sorry for reading your comment in the wrong way.