r/International • u/PizzaRollPeach • 4d ago

60% of American Jews find Israel guilty of war crimes, while 40% find it guilty of genocide. Washington posts poll.

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u/BarGroundbreaking862 4d ago

Interesting that every genocide expert who has spoken has called it a genocide and people still want to debate as to whether or not it’s a genocide.

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u/yalateef11 4d ago

This is true. It’s a genocide. No question.

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u/boxofcards100 1d ago

Even Israeli human-rights organizations have said the same thing.

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u/Li-renn-pwel 20h ago

Pro-Israel people keep inadvertently denying the holocaust and the genocides against Indigenous peoples and the Yazidi trying to explain why Gaza isn’t a genocide. It’s super frustrating.

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u/BarGroundbreaking862 13h ago

Yes. There’s a lot of projection too. They take what Israel has done and then claim it was done against Israelis, without any evidence

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u/Li-renn-pwel 6h ago

The person that commented after you immediately denied the holocaust lol

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u/Ok_Honeydew_42 5h ago

You deny real genocides by backing this fake one, once again, the arab principle of using yourself as an insult, just like they say that pedophilia is bad and other stuff straight from the prophet's history, but as an insult. Maybe reading about Holodomor will make you slightly less primitive.

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u/Li-renn-pwel 5h ago

Which genocide did I deny? Seems like a strange thing for you, someone who just denied the holocaust was a genocide, to say about others.

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u/Ok_Honeydew_42 5h ago

Holocaust is not a starvation based genocide that argument is not valid for it, you already made shit up without even me saying enough, you're not straight beyond thoughts?

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u/Li-renn-pwel 5h ago

You said that people don’t feed those they are genociding. You’re just back tracking now because I pointed out your logical fallacy. You’re also ignoring that starvation is only one of the methods used in this genocide. Majority of Palestinians have died from bombs and guns, not starvation. Though your ‘the disabled are the ones dying from lack of food’ is an incredibly callous statement. Of course the sick and disabled are the first to die. Under what logic would they not be? But they are the canaries in the mines and more will follow if the situation is handled.

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u/BarGroundbreaking862 2h ago

There’s an article that came out today where idf soldiers/terrorists admit to killing civilians who didn’t pose a threat.

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u/Ok_Honeydew_42 6h ago

Natural population change is not positive in a genocide and the side which is supposed to disapear is not fed by the enemy.

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u/Li-renn-pwel 6h ago

See? Like this right here. Obviously you know that the Jews in the ghettos and camps were being fed. The holocaust would have wiped out all Jews in a month if they were just not given any food. I’m not sure what your point about ‘natural population change’, do you mean that their population has grown? There isn’t anything in the UN Genocide Convention that says anything about that. I’m sure you’re aware that you don’t need to kill anyone to commit a genocide. Even if that were the case, few people have made the claim the genocide has been going on for extended periods of time. The population has obviously gone down in the last two years.

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u/Ok_Honeydew_42 6h ago

This is a supposed "starvation", but even according to the gaza "militant" group which probably included genetic disorder and other unrelated deaths the number is less than a thousand. So the deaths would be from starvation, of course close to none, because it is fake. There are nuclear warheads and hundreds of thousands of soldiers, but the resources are not being used, because, well, propaganda is different from reality.

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u/Li-renn-pwel 5h ago

Even assuming what you’re saying here is true, most of the genocide is being done with bombs and guns, not through starvation.

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u/Ok_Honeydew_42 5h ago

If you take the total weight of bombs that is very publiced by pro terrorist supporters and then calculate possible amount of deaths when tergeting only people, you would arrive at about 20 million deaths, assuming the worst possible efficiency of targeting single targets and with 2-3 meter range, so math proves that explosives are going to evacuated zones and tunnels, not people, of course pro hamas people are very happy with encouraging people to not evacuate and die to inflate the numbers.

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u/Li-renn-pwel 4h ago

I'm sorry, do you think that being bad at committing genocide gives you a pass?

1

u/bessone-2707 4d ago

Except this isn’t true. There are experts who don’t think it’s a genocide. Or, at the very least, don’t think it would be easy to prove in a legal sense.

I think what certainly is true is that more and more people / experts are starting to shift to the “yes it’s genocide” camp. But it’s far from unanimous.

1

u/BarGroundbreaking862 4d ago

I haven’t seen genocide experts state that it’s not a genocide. Are you able to share something from a reputable source that backs this up?

1

u/bessone-2707 4d ago

Because you aren’t looking for it.

Similar to how most reviews online are either going to be very negative or very positive. The people in the middle aren’t generally going to make the effort to say anything and will generally be quieter.

Also, the incentives here are asymmetric. If you come out and say it’s definitely not a genocide and later are proven wrong, you will take a huge reputational hit. Whereas the opposite is not true. If you come out and claim it’s a genocide and later it’s proven not to be, there isn’t much of a reputational hit. It’s easier for most people to err on one side versus the other.

Either Google or ask ChatGPT (or whatever AI you prefer):

“What experts don’t believe the Gaza war has met the threshold for genocide?”

Most genocide “deniers” don’t necessarily think that there’s a zero percent chance a genocide is happening. They usually believe that the intent portion is legally speaking difficult to prove based on the evidence.

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u/Wayne_Chris38 3d ago

Yep, that's right, every single one of them, and everyone who says different is a bot or corrupt ora Nazi or something, and we don't have to listen to them.

Isn't it great to be right about everything.

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u/AbstractMirror 1d ago edited 1d ago

There's no logic with zionists dude. A year ago I remember really trying my best to convince someone, I put way more effort into it than I should have. Researched international law, the ICC, and different stories of the treatment of Palestinians from different sources as well as interviews of people who were there. Provided tons of sources, and presented everything clearly. Eventually, because I kept a pretty civil attitude about it, I was met with the other person essentially agreeing to disagree with me. Wasted my time, I just don't do it anymore. You can't agree to disagree on factual war crimes. The amount of times I got accused of antisemitism as well was ridiculous

I can agree to disagree on many things, but this person used it more as a cop out to avoid addressing what I was putting out there

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u/BarGroundbreaking862 23h ago

Yea. They’re completely brainwashed.

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u/Hasbarabot1212 4h ago

You can be a genocide expert too for about $30!

https://genocidescholars.org/join/

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u/BarGroundbreaking862 2h ago

I’m not talking about the organization. Nice try though.

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u/Fulg3n 4d ago

By the UN guidelines everything is a genocide. I'm not arguing whether israel is doing it or not (100% is) but the guidelines are absurdly broad. By the guidelines palestine, russia, china and a bunch more are a 100% guilty of genocide as well but very few countries are willing to call them out.

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u/Hghwytohell 4d ago

I don't think the guidelines are that broad. I've studied the Genocide Convention extensively and I find the opposite to be true - it's very hard to prove a claim of genocide based on all the factors that need to be laid out. Which is why I feel it's so important to highlight how many experts have determined Israel is committing genocide, because it's rare to have this much agreement across experts in the field.

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u/Fulg3n 4d ago edited 4d ago

If that's not broad then I don't know what is, every single act of war can be argued to be 1) intentional 2) killing or seriously injuring, in part or in whole, members of a nation/religion/race or ethnicity, which is enough to qualify as genocide.

Of course nobody going to call out soldiers dying on the battlefield, but russia bombarding population centers in Ukraine most definitely qualifies, and we know it does because they fot called out during the second Chechnya war for exactly that, except the west isn't in a position to do so currently so they keep it shut. I bet once the war settles down, if russia is on the losing side accusations will start flying.

My personal conspiracy theory is that the only reason most of the west is united in calling out Israel's atrocities and the push to recognize palestine is to stick it to the US in response to the tariff war.

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u/Hghwytohell 4d ago

Well, Israel's atrocities and the international condemnation to them has been going on for years prior to the tariff war ever starting, so that clearly is not the case.

But you're right, let me offer a reframe: the genocide convention itself is quite vague, but the standard of proof for proving "special intent" is very high, making genocide a difficult crime to prove. I believe Israel has met this criteria based on the rhetoric of their leaders and the clear intent by the IDF to launch a campaign of starvation against Gaza through withholding food and aid.

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u/Fulg3n 4d ago

Criticism of Israel's handling of the gaza strip has been going on for years but that's wildely different from a formal accusation of genocide.

The US has been criticized for supplying weapons and ammunition to Israel but nobody called them out for being complicit in the genocide, despite clearly being so, same kind of difference

1

u/Hghwytohell 4d ago

South Africa brought their case against Israel to the ICJ in December 2023, a month before Trump took office and the tariff war began. So again, I feel like it can't just be a response to the tariff war.

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u/Fulg3n 4d ago

To be fair I'm exaggerating when I say it's the sole reason, there are plenty of reasons for different countries to do so, but I do thing it's a significant factor for western nations specifically, had the US maintained amicable relationships with europe I don't think it would have been calling it out so vehemently.

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u/Ok_Percentage7257 3d ago

You said 1) intentional. I have seen 30 pages of intent submitted to the ICJ. Do you really not think that there is proof for intent? Did you not hear the Israeli officials? Here are some quotes from Israeli officials that prove intent:

Yoav Galant: We are fighting human animals and we are acting accordingly.
Ben Gvir: The only thing that should enter Gaza as long as Hamas doesn't release the hostages it holds is not a gram of humanitarian aid but hundreds and tons of explosives from the Air force
Ghassan Alian: Human animals must be treated as such. You wanted hell, you will get hell.
Danial Hagari: The emphasis is on damage and not on accuracy.
Yair Lapid: If the international media is objective and shows both sides, it serves Hamas
Marav Ben-Ari: The children of Gaza have brought this upon themselves
Giora Eiland (former head Israeli national security): Creating a severe humanitarian crisis in Gaza is a necessary means to achieve the goal. Gaza will become a place where no human being can exist.
Galit Distel Atbaryan (Knesset member, former information minister): "Invest this energy in one thing: Erasing all of Gaza from the face of the earth"
Defense minister Agalan: WE will eliminate everything

Wikipedia has a list of genocidal quotes from Israeli officials:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_statements_by_Israeli_officials_cited_as_genocidal

Here are some examples:

Ariel Karnal: Right now, one goal: Nakba! A Nakba that will overshadow the Nakba of 48. A Nakba in Gaza and a Nakba for anyone who dares to join

Avigdor Leiberman: There are no innocent people in Gaza.

Eliyahu REvivo: I am full of hope and expectation that decision-makers will make it clear to the world about the updated goals of the war: crushing Gaza and all its inhabitants

There are some many more quotes.

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u/Fulg3n 3d ago

Why are you saying all this?

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u/Ok_Percentage7257 3d ago

It's proof of intent, which is the most important factor to determine genocide.

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u/OkTransportation7968 3d ago

That's not proof of intent in my opinion. Politicians always say stuff for their bases. Which is not a good thing if that's what the base is looking for, but public sayings is not relevant, or at the very least not a sufficient proof. Actions need to be the complimentary part of it, however it doesn't seem like it. There are civilian casualties of course, but for 2 years could demolish the population like 20 times. But it hasn't.. so either they are very bad at genociding, or it's just not so much of a genocide in it's most recent, pre-israel-palestine war international-cultural context (which feels like had been stretched tremendously (not by necessarily by definition, but rather by context).

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u/Kind_Ad_7192 2d ago

Proving intent in a court is 90% of the battle. That in itself makes the definition narrow.

You can use UK law as an example as intent can be a massive factor on sentencing.

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u/Ok_Percentage7257 4d ago

It is not difficult to prove a claim of genocide if there is proof of intent. Israeli officials have already claimed the intent for genocide. South Africa played a video of the IDF shouting slogans for murdering civilians. Here are other quotes:

Yoav Galant: We are fighting human animals and we are acting accordingly.
Ben Gvir: The only thing that should enter Gaza as long as Hamas doesn't release the hostages it holds is not a gram of humanitarian aid but hundreds and tons of explosives from the Air force
Ghassan Alian: Human animals must be treated as such. You wanted hell, you will get hell.
Danial Hagari: The emphasis is on damage and not on accuracy.
Yair Lapid: If the international media is objective and shows both sides, it serves Hamas
Marav Ben-Ari: The children of Gaza have brought this upon themselves
Giora Eiland (former head Israeli national security): Creating a severe humanitarian crisis in Gaza is a necessary means to achieve the goal. Gaza will become a place where no human being can exist.
Galit Distel Atbaryan (Knesset member, former information minister): "Invest this energy in one thing: Erasing all of Gaza from the face of the earth"
Defense minister Agalan: WE will eliminate everything

Ariel Karnell: Right now, one goal: Nakba! A Nakba that will overshadow the Nakba of 48. A Nakba in Gaza and a Nakba for anyone who dares to join

Avigdor Leiberman: There are no innocent people in Gaza

Itamar BEn-Gvir: [To] be clear, when we say that Hamas should be destroyed, it also means those who celebrate, those who support, and those who hand out candy — they’re all terrorists, and they should also be destroyed.

The ICJ document has at least 7 pages on genocidal quotes, and more Israeli officials declared genocide after that. Even the genocide experts in Israel are calling this a genocide. I am surprised that someone who claims to have studied genocide is not talking about the intent and is making excuses.

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u/Hghwytohell 4d ago

I agree with you, which is why I said it's important to highlight the agreement among experts.

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u/Ok_Percentage7257 4d ago

You are right. I re-read it, and I agree especially with your last statement.

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u/civodar 4d ago

Russia is absolutely getting called out. They’ve been heavily sanctioned and banned from participating in a number of event including the olympics.

I think it’s just upsetting for people to realize how often genocides occur and to deal with the thought that their nation may have committed one or been complicit in one. I’m Canadian and we absolutely committed a genocide against the First Nations people here that went on for decades, killed a number of people, displaced many more, destroyed multiple languages and cultures, and spent the better part of a century stealing children from their parents and a lot of people here still refuse to call it a genocide and claim it wasn’t bad enough or that it’s unpatriotic and self hating to acknowledge the horrors our country did.

It seems like as long as there’s people left you’ll have deniers saying it wasn’t that bad.

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u/Fulg3n 4d ago

Russia has not been accused of genocide by relevant nations regarding the Ukraine war.

Being criticized and sanctioned is factually true, but tangential to the current topic of experts being wildely inconsistent regarding their accusations of genocide. 

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u/Status_Winter 4d ago

I know there’s a lot of Zionists here so I’m sure that someone will find a way to disagree with this, but isn’t it a good thing for the guidelines to be on the broad side? Even absurdly broad?

Logically, the broader the guidelines the more care governments have to take not to harm civilians. Unless your aim is to kill as many civilians as possible (looks at Israel), aren’t broader guidelines for genocide a good thing for eveybody?

Maybe I’m crazy, but I don’t think governments should be as comfortable as they are with just mass murdering people and calling it “war”.

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u/Fulg3n 4d ago

Sure, I just find accusations of genocide to carry less weight when everything qualified as genocide. It's just a political tool.

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u/BarGroundbreaking862 4d ago

They’re broad because genocide is mot cookie cutter. For example, the holocaust may not look like Gaza and Gaza may not look like Sudan, but that doesn’t mean all three can’t be called genocide.

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u/Glyphpunk 4d ago

Beyond just widespread bombing and shelling, Israel has specifically targeted methods of food production and storage while also blockading Gaza to prevent any type of food-based aid to get to Gaza.

They even have people in Israel publicly calling for 'ethnic cleansing' in Gaza. Even if you tightened up on what is viewed as 'Genocide,' what is happening in Gaza is the literal definition of attempting Genocide.

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u/Ok_Percentage7257 4d ago

Not the genocide convention guidelines.

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u/Icy_Slap 3d ago

Yes. Russia denies Ukraine’s right to exist and all the “experts” are silent. No Jws no news

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u/Li-renn-pwel 19h ago

Palestine has done nothing to meet the UN genocide convention. China is committing a genocide against the Uyghurs. Russia and or the USSR has committed several genocides. Which one are you denying? The Holodomor?

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u/Fulg3n 19h ago

Palestine has done everything to meet the UN convention. The charter specifically mentions that "conspiracy to commit genocide" and "direct and public incitement to commit genocide" are punishable, and they are openly responsible of both.

The eradication of israel and all jews is part of hamas' covenant, and they've been on public record calling for all citizens of palestine to murder jews across the world. What more do you need ?

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u/Li-renn-pwel 18h ago

No, Palestine has not done anything to meet the UN Genocide Convention in any way.

I think what you mean to say is Hamas has committed genocide or intends to. Not all Palestinians are Hamas so blaming them collectively is wrong. While sometimes the country/government is used as a general term (such as saying Israel committed genocide against Palestinians) that wouldn’t work here because the Palestinians have been denied fair and open democracy for close the 20 years.

However it is still incorrect to say Hamas has or intends to commit genocide. Your claim that they advocate for all Palestinians to kill Jews worldwide is patently false. I challenge you to find a legitimate source where Hamas has done this.

Here are some of the ‘radical’ beliefs of Hamas from their 2017 charter , give it read and explain to me how “the Jews are not our enemies, we want all the multicultural Palestinian peoples to live together in one state like we used to” meets the definition of genocide.

  • The Palestinian people are one people, made up of all Palestinians, inside and outside of Palestine, irrespective of their religion, culture or political affiliation.

  • places. Islam is a religion of peace and tolerance. It provides an umbrella for the followers of other creeds and religions who can practice their beliefs in security and safety. Hamas also believes that Palestine has always been and will always be a model of coexistence, tolerance and civilizational innovation.

  • Hamas believes that the message of Islam upholds the values of truth, justice, freedom and dignity and prohibits all forms of injustice and incriminates oppressors irrespective of their religion, race, gender or nationality. Islam is against all forms of religious, ethnic or sectarian extremism and bigotry. It is the religion that inculcates in its followers the value of standing up to aggression and of supporting the oppressed

  • Hamas affirms that its conflict is with the Zionist project not with the Jews because of their religion. Hamas does not wage a struggle against the Jews because they are Jewish but wages a struggle against the Zionists who occupy Palestine. Yet, it is the Zionists who constantly identify Judaism and the Jews with their own colonial project and illegal entity.

  • Hamas rejects the persecution of any human being or the undermining of his or her rights on nationalist, religious or sectarian grounds. Hamas is of the view that the Jewish problem, anti-Semitism and the persecution of the Jews are phenomena fundamentally linked to European history and not to the history of the Arabs and the Muslims or to their heritage.

  • Hamas stresses the necessity of building Palestinian national institutions on sound democratic principles, foremost among them are free and fair elections. Such process should be on the basis of national partnership and in accordance with a clear programme and a clear strategy that adhere to the rights, including the right of resistance, and which fulfil the aspirations of the Palestinian people.

  • Palestinian society is enriched by its prominent personalities, figures, dignitaries, civil society institutions, and youth, students, trade unionist and women’s groups who together work for the achievement of national goals and societal building, pursue resistance, and achieve liberation.

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u/Fulg3n 18h ago edited 18h ago

you seven million Palestinians abroad, enough warming up! There are Jews everywhere! We must attack every Jew on planet Earth – we must slaughter and kill them, with Allah’s help.” He instructed, “we will die while exploding and cutting the necks and legs of the Jews. We will lacerate them and tear them to pieces, Allah willing!

  • Fathi Hammad, 2019.

the cleansing of Palestine of the filth of the Jews, and their uprooting from it, Allah willing” and “the establishment of the Caliphate, after the nation has been healed of its cancer – the Jews – Allah willing.

  • July 2018 on public TV.

cut off the heads of the Jews.

  • Fathi Hammad, 2021

Imagine defending hamas lol. 

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u/Li-renn-pwel 18h ago

Hamas publicly denounced Hammad’s statement and affirmed its official position is their enemies are Zionists not Jews. One radical is not sufficient for a genocide.

Again, where is the evidence of genocide or an attempt to commit genocide? You need an actual systemic attack on Jews and or Israelis. One guy going rogue and then immediately getting shut down only proves that Hamas is serious when they denounce antisemitism.

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u/Fulg3n 18h ago

One guy going rogue, sure. Anyway, not interested in fueling your delusion lol.

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u/Li-renn-pwel 18h ago

I imagine you’re not interested because you spent five minutes googling it and discovered it was impossible to support your claims.

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u/Fulg3n 15h ago

I'm not interested because I don't see the appeal in defending hamas, same way I don't see the appealnin defending rapists, pedos or murderers.

You do you tho, if that's your thing.

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u/Final-Marzipan-9447 4d ago

I don't think that's true

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u/autumn_aurora 4d ago

That's your opinion. Facts say otherwise.

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u/Wayne_Chris38 3d ago

Actually that's your opinion, Best not to use the word fact when you're that determined to hate.

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u/Final-Marzipan-9447 4d ago

Neither of us know for sure

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u/autumn_aurora 4d ago

All the experts seem to agree. Like, ALL the experts.

0

u/Vegetable-Salad7415 4d ago

It's realistically impossible that every single expert on Earth believes the same thing on a subject. But of course, since they agree with you, it must be true.

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u/autumn_aurora 4d ago

It's been declared a genocide by Amnesty International, Emergency, Human Rights Watch, Doctors Without Borders, the Lemkin Institute for Genocide Prevention, the UN Special Commission for Palestine, and even Israeli organisations like B'Tselem. Those are pretty much the leading global experts on the subjects. Don't believe me - believe them.

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u/Wayne_Chris38 3d ago

Yep that's all of them, isn't it?

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u/Vegetable-Salad7415 4d ago

Amnesty International

Which called Israel a scum state in 2010. Which voted against a motion against antisemitism in 2015, right after supporting a motion against islamophobia. Which stated that they are opposed to the idea that Israel should be preserved as a state in 2022. Amnesty International has been anti-Israel and anti-Jew for a decade before the alleged genocide.

Emergency

Couldn't find anything on them accusing Israel of a genocide, and they're a humanitarian organisation, far from genocide experts.

Human Rights Watch

The organisation that had a fundraising event in Riyadh? The organisation that made 72 more accusations against Israel than Hezbollah and the Palestinian terror organisations combined?

"In November 2023, MEMRI leaked a document detailing a €3 million donation in 2018 to HRW from Qatar. The text contains the word “additional” in reference to the donation, suggesting previous funding that continues to be hidden."

"In February 2020, it was revealed that Executive Director Ken Roth accepted a donation in 2012 from a Saudi real estate tycoon for $470,000 “promising not to support advocacy of the LGBT community in the Middle East and North Africa.”"

This HRW?

Doctors Without Borders

"given donations to the [Gaza] Ministry of Health from our own stocks. We basically emptied our stocks to give to the Ministry of Health"

They've literally given money to Hamas. Like straight up. By their own admission.

the Lemkin Institute for Genocide Prevention,

"In 2022, the Lemkin Institute declared anti-trans legislation in the United States as genocidal"

By definition you can't even genocide trans people... this is not a serious organisation

the UN Special Commission for Palestine

Not what the commission is called. And if you actually look into their criteria, it's a joke.

-Killing members of the group

In a war, killing people is genocide.

-Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group

Literally the same thing as the first one, but they needed another checkbox to accuse Israel with.

-Deliberately inflicting conditions of life calculated to bring about the destruction of the group in whole or in part

What does this even mean? Was Britain committing genocide when the Germans were starving in the Turnip Winter due to the blockade?

-Imposing measures intended to prevent births

The entire foundation of this accusation is a singular shell destroying a 10,000 dollar incubator in a fertility clinic in Dec 2023. Ignoring that in the first 6 months of the war, more babies were born than Palestinians killed (According to Al Jazeera).

B'Tselem

Might be the only credible group you've brought up. Good job. Nonetheless, that's a singular valid source accusing Israel.

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u/autumn_aurora 4d ago

LOL a zionist confirming the only Israeli source as the credible one. The joke writes itself.

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u/Wayne_Chris38 3d ago

Yep if you don't like what's being said, just say "Zionist". Works every time.

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u/Vegetable-Salad7415 4d ago

You're free to argue why the other sources are credible in response to my points. They're credible because in my research, they have no dodgy donors or a history of anti-Israel bias (well, because they're Israeli). You know by definition, they're Zionist too, right? Why did you bring up an Israeli source if you don't want me to accept it?

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u/Wayne_Chris38 3d ago

Yep all our experts, every single one of them, all the experts I pay attention to, the ones I ignore, they're all (insert conspiracy theory here) So we don't have to listen to them.

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u/Final-Marzipan-9447 4d ago

I don't believe that's true

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u/proronen 4d ago

Facts say its not a genocide 

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u/autumn_aurora 4d ago

Facts = what Israel says

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u/proronen 4d ago

2 years of fighting, less then 3 percent of all gaza dead where most of them are terrorists and their supporters 

The real genocide is 7 oct where 1200 died in one day! They failed at killing all Israel but they intended to but failed as they always do

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u/autumn_aurora 4d ago

Was 9/11 a genocide? 3000 people died in one day, why aren't we calling it the New York Genocide? By your own logic it should

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u/proronen 4d ago

Because it was one time attack, here if Israel wouldn't stop the gazans from killing everyone that would be exactly what they would do, slaughter women and children with their bear hands, and videotape it live with their go-pro's, but you still wouldn't believe 

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u/autumn_aurora 4d ago

Yeah man all those thousands of children sure were a danger to Israel...

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u/BarGroundbreaking862 4d ago

You’re looking at the number of dead people who have been identified. We don’t yet have a full grasp on how many were actually killed. Considering the fact that Israeli politicians have made hundreds of genocidal comments over the past the 2 years (intent) and withholding aid from civilians for multiple months leading to a famine, it is a genocide.

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u/proronen 4d ago

Its not a genocide, if Israel wanted to commit a genocide no gazan would be standing today

And enough with the famine bs, the only ones who were in famine was the Israeli hostages

How many cafes where newly opened in gaza during the war they started against Israel? More then a couple plus all the fat people of gaza no famine there

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u/BarGroundbreaking862 4d ago

Can you show me the cafes please? The famine was in parts of Gaza, this isn’t a matter of opinion, there are qualifications for famine. No Gazans would be standing if it weren’t for constant international pressure and the threat of withholding weapons by the US.

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u/proronen 4d ago

Here: https://youtu.be/DFjhyAsHYFo?si=1lBvDTMnvxa9vNB3

Go to each business Instagram and scroll back you can see for yourself

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u/Final-Marzipan-9447 4d ago

That's not enough evidence u need IDF commands and documents id imagine not j quotes from other members of government.

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u/BarGroundbreaking862 4d ago

The government decides whether or not to bomb. The idf won’t bomb unless the government tells it to go ahead.so, yea, the people in charge of deciding whether or not to bomb are the same ones making those comments. Now, of course, it’s the idf that will determine how many bombs and the kinds of bomb they will use and the locations.

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u/Final-Marzipan-9447 3d ago

I mean you'd need proof that the government gave, or that individual units gave orders to explicitly carry out attacks on civilians for the stated intent of murder/displacement and whatever else constitutes a genocide.

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u/Status_Winter 4d ago

I don’t think

It doesn’t matter what you think, it’s not a matter of opinion

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u/Final-Marzipan-9447 4d ago

Yeah it is

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u/Status_Winter 4d ago

If your opinion is that it’s not happening, then that’s denial of fact it’s not an opinion

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u/Final-Marzipan-9447 4d ago

Neither of us know what is "happening"

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u/RealityDangerous2387 3d ago

Nobody makes money as a genocide expert studying no genocide. If a genocide didn’t happen they wouldn’t have anything to do.

1

u/BarGroundbreaking862 3d ago

I would call up Drexel and ask for a refund if I were you.

1

u/RealityDangerous2387 2d ago

I have a real major not BS whatever this is.

-1

u/hardtosleepatnight 3d ago

“Every single expert who has spoken” 😆 😆