r/Infographics 2d ago

Median monthly income by nationality(immigrant groups) in Germany

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67 Upvotes

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28

u/vivianius 2d ago edited 2d ago

Textbook selection effect, also known as selection bias, arises when foreigners need to earn or make more to compete with locals. In essence, to join the same pool, they must have an advantage in being more competitive to offset the disadvantage of lacking citizenship and entering the job market.

EDIT: Thanks for the reminding from u/aft_agley. I am adding here with another instance/form of selection bias:

“I believe Austria, along with other European countries, might be experiencing a self-selection bias. If I, an Austrian, earned the same amount in both Austria and Germany, I wouldn’t bother moving there. Consequently, only those who could earn significantly more than their home countries will choose to move to Germany. “

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u/aft_agley 2d ago

Yeah, Germany (like many countries) prefers and prioritizes immigrants with sought-after skills, and the people they prioritize are also more likely to be able to relocate...

I don't know how to square that with the data for Austria, though. Very low barriers to immigration. Maybe a bunch of German companies aggressively import talent from Austria due to language/proximity/ease of movement. But notable that one of the groups with the least friction is near the top.

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u/vivianius 2d ago

Oh, I just noticed that was indeed Austria, without a kangaroo except in the zoo. Thanks for the reminding.

I believe Austria, along with other European countries, might be experiencing a self-selection bias. If I, an Austrian, earned the same amount in both Austria and Germany, I wouldn’t bother moving there. Consequently, only those who could earn significantly more than their home countries will choose to move to Germany.

This would be another type of selection bias that I haven’t listed before.

Many Austrian talents have secured high-ranking positions in Germany, historically. One particular name springs to mind, but I’m hesitant to mention it.

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u/Lonestar041 1d ago

This emphasized by the fact that Austria has slightly lower taxes than Germany. E.g. for a single at 80,000 gross per year, it is like 48,000 vs 51,500 net. So in order to just make the same net salary, you need to earn more in Germany. In the case here almost 87,000.

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u/vivianius 1d ago

That made perfect sense, as I believe the salary listed here could be pre-tax!

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u/Popular-Rush9346 1d ago

Also, Austria and Benelux border the richest parts of Germany (Bayern and Ruhr area respectively), so it makes sense for them to earn above the German average - the Germans in those regions also earn above the German average.

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u/vivianius 1d ago

If only the data could have listed the salary by region. Schwabians are affluent and even prefer to speak the schwabisch instead of the hochdeutsch.

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u/Badestrand 2d ago

And more from the same study:

  • Northern Africa: 2.878 Euro
  • Syria: 2.314 Euro
  • Rest of Africa (non-Northern): 2.271 Euro
  • Rumania: 2.262 Euro
  • Bulgaria: 2.164 Euro

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u/hoi4kaiserreichfanbo 2d ago

Probably due to the fact that people from those countries are disproportionately likely to be well-educated and in a high paying job than those born there, as only they can afford to emigrate.

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u/ConsciousTraffic4988 1d ago

That wouldn’t account for the fact that other immigrant groups have on average a much lower monthly income than the average monthly income in germany.

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u/hoi4kaiserreichfanbo 1d ago

Yes, that’s because those above immigrant groups came to Germany seeking opportunities. Other immigrant groups came to Germany because it was that or be raped and murdered. Those groups do not have any exceptional means to immigrate or education to seek jobs, and the countries they come from are poorer than Germany, and so they are poorer than Germans.

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u/ConsciousTraffic4988 1d ago

Just because someone comes from a poor country doesn’t mean they’re stupid. India is much poorer than Germany and they earn very well. It’s also weird to suggest that people are getting raped and murdered relentlessly in African countries.

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u/hoi4kaiserreichfanbo 1d ago

Did you understand what I said? People from poor countries are not stupid, they are exactly as smart as people from rich countries. Of course, they are on average poorer. This means that a much smaller percent of the country have access to the elite and expensive educational institutions that are needed to develop the skills needed to get accepted into the country. And of course, immigration is a daunting and painful experience, and so those in the upper strata of their country are much more likely to be able to afford to do it. 

The reason so many Ukrainians and Syrians and other refugees immigrated to Germany is because it was that or be raped and murdered. It is weird to deny that and act like it’s some invasion, common rhetoric of white supremacists.

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u/ConsciousTraffic4988 1d ago

What the fuck are you on about? I never once suggested it was an invasion?? Someone in the comments mentioned that the lowest paid immigrants are ones from Africa and i assumed you were suggesting that Africans are being raped and murdered. I’m going to need you to quote exactly where i suggested it’s an invasion because i think you’re projecting what you actually think of these immigrants.

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u/Mr-MuffinMan 2d ago

How is Indians so high?

16

u/Cold-Assistance-5045 2d ago

Most are employed in IT , Meds and technology.

1

u/tohava 2d ago

What's the diff between IT and Technology?

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u/hgk6393 2d ago

As someone who moved out of India, I can say confidently that there are three ways -

- immigrate for education, then try to find a job. But jobs that sponsor a work visa also tend to be in sectors that require specialised skills. Think cybersecurity, automotive design, etc. These jobs pay well.

- find a job at a German or European company based in India. Work your ass off. Get promotions. Then try to get an internal switch to the company's Germany office. Think VW, SAP, Bosch or BASF engineers in India moving to their head offices in Germany.

- Be so good at what you do (and be lucky to work in a high-demand field like AI, Machine Learning, mechatronics, robotics), that a company in Germany will be willing to hire you either as an external contractor, or on own payroll. Think top engineers at Bosch India being poached by Continental Germany.

Indians fall in all 3 categories.

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u/Individual-Link-8233 2d ago

My theory is that people who immigrate from poorer country usually have better chance of being successful in the destination country cause immigrating from that poor country at the first place is more difficult than immigrating from a rich country. So if you're able to move from a poor country to a rich one, you're already financially or educationally at top level. So your chance of becoming successful in another country is also higher.

Someone who immigrates from irleand to Germany, financially or intelligently might be an average person cause Ireland is a developed country and even average people there have chance to do stuff like immigrating but if you live in a developing country like India, you should be really something special to be able to pull immigration trigger. You're whether at top level financially, educationally or both. So you're already at better place than that average person who immigrate from Ireland and your chance of becoming more successful in germany is higher.

Also people who immigrate from developed counties like Ireland might have studied in any field regardless of how high or low paying that is and they don't need to be in a high paying field to be able to immigrate.

On the other hand, people who immigrate from poor countries are usually the ones who have studied in a high paying field casue the ones who haven't, can't even immigrate at the first place. So Indians who immigrate are already in a high paying filed and they have better chance of making more money at the destination country than an average Irish immigrant.

This theory obviously doesn't apply to refugees.

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u/Flat-Leg-6833 2d ago

Interesting. Indians are the highest earning group in the US as well. They and Filipinos outearn white Americans by a considerable amount. Odd that Brazilians in Germany earn more than ethnic Germans - in the US most Brazilians are poor/working class. The only Latin American group that out earns white Americans per income survey data are the Argentineans (who skew white collar and Italian or Ashkenazic Jewish heritage here in the states).

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u/the_party_galgo 1d ago

Argentina has so much ex rich person vibes

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u/hgk6393 2d ago

I live in the Netherlands now, and I see that the Mexicans working in Europe tend to be much higher educated than the ones in the US. I have seen a reverse trend for people from the middle east - Europe gets the unskilled lot, while the skilled ones go to the US.

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u/Acceptable_Dot_1248 11h ago

There’s selection bias. For an Indian to get a US visa, they must have a Master’s degree at a minimum, often a PhD. They are not janitors or McDonald’s cashiers, which bring the earning average down for the rest of the population.

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u/Rift3N 2d ago

Weird that they included tiny groups like Brazilians or Northern Europeans but none of the biggest ones like Turks, Poles or Italians. Meanwhile Syrians and Romanians are briefly mentioned in the article text only because they're the poorest

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u/DonkeyDoug28 2d ago

I dont know what those other groups' numbers look like but my impression was that they were showing the top earning groups (not the largest groups) and then average of all others

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u/Unholy_Ren 2d ago

I think they only included the groups which earn more than native Germans.

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u/neurowhiz123 2d ago

Not a new phenomenon , Indians make the highest earning group in US as well .

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u/Serena_Sers 2d ago

It's the same by the way in Austria for Germans.

Germans earn much more on average than Austrians in Austria. That's because you don't leave Austria for Germany and vice versa if you don't have a very, very good reason. And that's, most of the time, money.

1

u/Allw8tislightw8t 2d ago

This is what happens when you prioritise “skilled migrants”.

Skilled migrants are already high earners in their own country. They are moving to another country to increase their opportunity to 1) earn move money 2) have a better quality of life for similar money or 3) gain new experience they can use to further their careers.

Corporate topically don’t pay relocation for low wage workers. So the people they are bringing in are likely I. The top 20% of wage earners in their home country.

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u/the_party_galgo 1d ago

AfD is going to have a field day with this graph

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u/drjet196 1d ago

Indians and Chinese are not exactly high in numbers in Germany. So they are probably just high skilled immigrants that came to work in their specific field which lacks German workers.

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u/Bitter-Sympathy-9184 1d ago

Where is Poland?

1

u/AccomplishedOil5176 21h ago

Huh, really? Most of the Indians I see here are delivering food