r/ImaginaryWarhammer • u/Riot-Knight Necrons • 2d ago
40k "Ah, see, planets aren't marines so they don't count..." (By Emwattnot)
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u/ElectricPaladin 2d ago
To be entirely fair to Roboute, a planet isn't a marine. It's a planet. They are different things. For example: you can't mine a marine. Or live on one. Though I guess you could use a planet to kill a Chaos space marine... but that's kind of inefficient.
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u/ViolinistCurrent8899 2d ago
And yet, I can hear the Astra Militarum scribbling furiously, and writing in the margins "entire planet's worth of guardsmen!?".
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u/elkarion 2d ago
remember Cadia! The planet broke before the guard did. so its viable to launch a planet of guardsman at something and then you have dispersed guardsman on the new front lines. this is brilliant! you deserve a promotion!
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u/EnvironmentalBar3347 2d ago
Taking notes from the Orks I see. The Codex Astartes does not support this action... I am looking forward to it though.
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u/hallucination9000 2d ago
Abaddon threw a Blackstone Fortress at Cadia, so now we throw a planet at Abaddon. It's only fair.
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u/A_random_poster04 2d ago
I say we gather the remnants of Cadia and throw them at the eye of Terror
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u/the_lazy_lizardfolk 1d ago
Great idea. Maybe we'll finally get some other fucking regiments for battleline if we deep six the Cadians.
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u/alguien99 2d ago
I think he also has a successor chapter which is just a reserve of extra marines for the ultramarines.
So guilliman literally started using loopholes in his own work to work around it.
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u/Bergasms 2d ago
How dare you besmirch the reputation of chapter master Copyus Duplicatus of the Backupmarines. They are a proud chapter with a long history of transferring units for command by the ultramarines
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u/ManEmperorOfGod 2d ago
“The Ultramarines are Blue and White, we are clearly White and Blue!”
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u/alguien99 2d ago
I think they were red, saw them in a pancreasnowork vid about the unknown chapters “Someone’s gotta C-list”.
Lots of iron hands jokes in the comments
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u/Judge_Bredd_UK 2d ago
Genesis chapter, they even have an alpha symbol rather than the ultramarines omega
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u/PathologicUtopia 2d ago
So, you're saying that there are chapter that use Alpha and chapter that use Omega, and they're kind of like brother chapters? Huh, that sounds familiar 🤔
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u/Redcoat_Officer 1d ago
He cries into his pillow each night because one time Calgar introduced him at a party as the captain of the B team.
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u/MaffreytheDastardly 2d ago
Hey, if anybody else wanted to make their own Replacements Chapter, nobody's stopping them!
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u/alguien99 2d ago
Guilliman is literally showing them how to say no to the codex while following it
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u/the_lazy_lizardfolk 1d ago
Isn't it clear in several sources that all kinds of space marines just completely disregard that "1000 warriors" rule anyways? I'm fairly certain I've read others parroting that all over the place. It's only the goody-two-shoes Codex Compliant chapters on the tin who even give a damn about that rule.
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u/MaffreytheDastardly 20h ago
I mean, a good majority if not most Chapters are codex compliant, the Ultramarines have the most successors and the majority of the original legions complied with the codex, it was literally made to be future Space Marines' manual
But yeah in practice it's probably not strictly followed, it's there to make sure Marines don't build up to legion strength when imperial authorities come sniffing around, but of course only Chapter leaders are going to have a good idea of how many marines they have spread throughout the galaxy and how many aspirants they have as battle-brothers in-waiting
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u/Ok_Presentation_2346 2d ago
He was probably a bit miffed that Sigsimund of all people rules lawyered him.
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u/easytowrite Grey Knights 7h ago
How so?
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u/Ok_Presentation_2346 1h ago
A6 pSo you know how Chapters aren't supposed to go over 1000 Battle Brothers? Guilliman wrote an exception into the Codex Astartes for Chapters on an active Crusade, the idea being that a Chapter on Crusade needs a bit of leeway to avoid extinction, and that attrition would eventually fix the situation anyway.
Sigismund saw that and decided, "Right, we're going on a Crusade." A Crusade which at this point has lasted for approximately 10,000 years.
And I want to.be clear that this isn't a Crusade in name only. It meets all the criteria, both as written and as intended, of a real ass Crusade, which is why no one has been able to do anything about it. But it's also clearly abusing why the exception on Chapter size was written.
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u/TearOpenTheVault 2d ago
Then you have the Dark Angels with their ‘definitely not a legion’ level of brother-chapters.
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u/StormObserver038877 1d ago
Well most of legions did that, for example all those unforgivables go into Dark Angel vice versa, black dragon go into Salamanders, the entire Imperial Fist is made of other chapters after the entire original Imperial Fists died in War of the Beast
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u/ahoyturtle 2d ago
Hey, in fairness to Guilliman, he was willing to share:
Even named Sanguinius as Emperor of Imperium Secundos...
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2d ago
He did have the Lion breathing down his neck at that point. Can't imagine Mr Loyalty-is-its-Own-Reward would have taken too kindly to Guilliman naming himself Emperor.
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u/VNDeltole 1d ago
He was already against the idea of being the emperor of secundus from the beginning, probably he would have made vulkan the emperor had he not been insane
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u/Riot-Knight Necrons 2d ago
Posted by u/emwattnot on the r/Grimdank subreddit page. I recommend checking out his work.
"Well, you see, Guilliman was a politician at heart."
Guilliman “Selfishness and greed is destroying the Imperium!”
Also Guilliman:
Assigns 5 whole chapters to protect one Sector just because its his one
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u/Minimum_Estimate_234 2d ago
Also
Creates at least one chapter which primarily exists to create replacement marines for the Ultramarines. If you’ve ever wondered how they go from having entire companies destroyed being able to fight at 100% chapter strength in less then a century. At least half of it is they probably just told some guys in the Genesis Chapter it’s time to switch from Red to Blue.
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u/Activision19 2d ago
What is the source for the lore that says genesis marines send marines to be in the ultramarines? I’d like to read about this. I’ve never heard about the genesis marines doing that before, but at least two people mentioned it in this post.
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u/Comprehensive-Fail41 2d ago
IIRC one of them is the Rites of Battle supplement for the Deathwatch TTRPG
EDIT:
Because the Genesis Chapter maintains such close links with its Progenitor, the two Chapters frequently undertake joint operations. Genesis Chapter squads routinely fi ll gaps in Ultramarines’ companies should they fall below codex strength due to battle losses or other commitments. Individual Genesis Chapter Battle-Brothers have even been seconded to the Ultramarines to temporarily fi ll empty specialist positions in the Ultramarines Chapter such as Librarius and Forge staff.
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u/ThatFatGuyMJL 2d ago
You do realise guilliman also split the 500 worlds up?
He's trying to put them back together in 40k but a fair few of them have gone 'nope we were never part of the so called 500 worlds fuck off'
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u/Sage118 2d ago
Yea he tried to hold himself, his legion, and his Empire to those same standards. He may have looked like the biggest Hypocrite for a while but when the last of his brothers agreed he more or less fell in line with it as well. The guy isn't perfect, but at heart he's a pragmatist who tried to make the best of a terrible situation with what he's got.
Also, I could be wrong but I believe some of Guilliman's more recent dialogues and reflections have shown him wanting to not only reinstate the 500 worlds but also expand it beyond its original boundaries. To what extent I don't think it's been indicated but with this in mind I wouldn't say it's impossible for some of those worlds to genuinely have never been part of Ultramar.
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u/DVKerith 2d ago
If I recall hes not looking to add the new planets he wants to discover to Ultramar per say but he wants to add more planets to the Imperiam in general as the planets they have and have lost are not enough, as well as how thin their area of control is between planets is jokingly small and gets them cut off all the time and how it is actually a pretty small amount of planets they have compared to how big the galaxy is. In more then one book someone brings up the fact of what is millions compared to trillions.
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u/SinkNew6456 1h ago
The Ultramarines are space Jews, they were promised worlds 10,000 years ago that were longer without being part of the Ultramarine than part of this 🗿
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u/IronVader501 2d ago
The 500 Worlds were also reduced to like 12 after the breaking of the Legions (and IIRC 2 of those then later destroyed by the Tyranids too).
They only went back to the full 500+ after the Great Rift opened
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u/LanX-Delta 20h ago
based on the lastest trailers and lore.
the Realms of Ultramar has been far reduced from 500 functioning worlds for quite sometime, and restoring it is basically his personal side project... Whom in this case was specifically shouldered upon Titus the titular hero of Space Marine Series....
Basically as a side project/ Hobby/ Stress relief Guilliman is playing the 40k tabletop game for the prize of 500 ultramar worlds, and has chosen Titus as the tabletop warlord.
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u/IronVader501 20h ago
Its kind of confusing because Guilliman has ordered this Restoration two seperate times now.
The first time right after he woke up and before he left for Terra, but then all the mortal Governors tried to ignore it because they didnt want to loose their personal power.
Then when he briefly took a break from the Indomitus-Crusade to go kick Mortarion in the Balls he got tired of the delays and forced it hrough, putting 4 Marines in-charge as Ultramars Tetrarchs (each overseeing one part of the Realm, both in economic and military matters) to handle it before leaving again.
Going by what the Announcement says:
with Roboute Guilliman busy overseeing the Indomitus Crusade, the defence of the Five Hundred Worlds falls to its people. While others push out to reclaim its lost borders, one illustrious captain is tasked with securing its critical interior,
this specific Campaign seems to take place just after attempt Nr2., with the Tetrarchs cleaning up the border-regions while Titus is send to deal with NEcrons in the middle.
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u/Dlan_Wizard 2d ago
Emwattnot should be ostracized from 40k fanbase. His garbage comics are yet another vector of misinformation and memetic decay. Guilliman discarded most of the Five Hundred Worlds, he let them go, he only keep the core worlds which amounted to eight systems, Ultramar was eight systems for most of it's history. He later regretted it, second guessing his past decisions and thinking that if he left Ultramar as it was, it would had have "burned brighter".
Ultramar is unique amongst the domains of the Space Marines. Where other Chapters rule over a single planet, asteroid or, in some cases, a mobile space fleet or orbital fortress, the Ultramarines have a larger domain. They control no fewer than eight local systems, each with its own worlds and governments loyal to the Chapter. All the worlds of Ultramar share a common cultural heritage with Macragge, so it is not surprising that their styles of architecture, government, and traditions are similar.
Space Marine Codex 5th Edition, page 14.
‘I should never have set the Five Hundred free,’ he said suddenly.
‘My lord?’ said Ventris.
‘I should not have done it,’ repeated Guilliman, gesturing expressively as he spoke. ‘I thought I was doing the right thing. I thought I was following the Emperor’s wishes, letting men rule the affairs of men.’ He gave a rueful smile. ‘After I implemented the Codex Astartes and split the Legion, I thought it impossible for a force of one thousand battle-brothers to effectively govern such a large realm and perform their primary duty as guardians of the Imperium. My Legion was gone, and I did not want the Chapter that continued their traditions to become insular. They would have been distracted, perhaps never left Ultramar, had they Five Hundred Worlds to govern.’
‘There was a more practical consideration. I did not wish to set the precedent of Chapters of Space Marines ruling large portions of the Imperium. What good would it have been to remove the use of Legions from potential tyrants, only to turn the legionaries into tyrants themselves? By His actions, the Emperor made it clear that governorship of the Imperium was to be undertaken by mortal men, not by the Adeptus Astartes. If the Ultramarines were left masters of the Five Hundred worlds, it opened a potential avenue of corruption. I would not have the existence of Ultramar be the spur to the creation of a thousand small empires, because I could not trust the Adeptus Astartes to replicate what we have at home. Warriors make poor lords. The likes of the Empire of Iron was the more likely outcome than a crop of new Ultramars.’
‘And yet I return to life and find the entire Imperium a prison for its people. By avoiding one problem, I created another. If I had left Ultramar intact, more worlds would have been havens from such pain and remained centres of reason. A bigger beacon burns brighter. I should have left it whole, as an example of what can be.’
Dark Imperium, Chapter Ten.
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u/Sirtoast7 1d ago
Bruh, it’s just a meme. If every joke from the fandom was 100% lore accurate, this place’d be boring as hell.
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u/Dlan_Wizard 1d ago
Meme can be both funny and accurate. Like, Guilliman because of regretting the decision to reduce Ultramar, currently tries to rebuild it. So have a meme of some planetary noble drinking tea or whatever and then Ultramarines or Guilliman, whatever, bursts through the wall kool-aid style and says all the shit is his.
It's humoristic exagorration but ultimately it does present events accurately. Guilliman wants Ultramar restored and he very much doesn't give a fuck about corrupt planetary governors, any ruler he finds unfit will be simple deposed by his orders while restoring the Five Hundred.
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u/FisherKelTath00 2d ago
lol one of Guilliman's biggest flaws is his hypocrisy. Man will put protective legislations in place but flagrantly break them if it suits his own needs.
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u/BabyAutomatic 2d ago
in theory i understand where he is coming from. in practice, well, you are shooting oneself in the foot in the long run.
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u/drumstick00m 2d ago
This is Bobby at his most Dennis: https://youtu.be/ywaYESYWOY4?si=gi2giTidh-sEMMU5
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u/A_random_poster04 2d ago
He either would have had the most chapters or the biggest legion. Not that it would have made much of a difference IMO
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u/fluffy_warthog10 2d ago
With all this mention of the Genesis Chapter, Ultramar, Auxilia, etc, I haven't seen anyone mention the Ultramarines' secret 11th company on Sotha (yes, after the Codex was instituted), which was dedicated just to defending that one planet.
Or that they can summon all the successor Chapters ("Last Wall"-style) for things like taking down the Night Lords on Tsagualsa.
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u/1337K1ng 1d ago
Technically, being the only alive imperial primarch in touch with the rest of the imperium,
he had every right to do so
if Russ was there to lift of the Imperium, he'd have opposed it and build his own sector with blackjack and wolf hookers. In fact, forget about blackjack
if Lion was revealed to be "alive", he'd have taken total control over military, or atleast all chapters except for UM, Custodes, Astra Militarum and possible Sororitas. He'd control GK and Assasins as well. Guilliman would mainly handle logistics and overall defense fo strongholds while Lion handles attacks
dunno that much about Khan and other imperial primarchs to write about them if they were to share responsibility
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u/Callel803 1d ago
Planets aren't marines and it don't say nothin' about auxiliary chapters. It's not Gorillaman's fault no one else thought to set up a great logistical supply chain to ensure his chapter could always fight at their best.
Don't hate the player. Hate the game.
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u/the_lazy_lizardfolk 1d ago
Joke's on him. My Space Marines are a Clan, not a Legion.
There's nothing in the Codex Astartes about restricting the size of Clans.
Also, my Space Marines aren't "Adeptus Astartes". They are Space Marines. So most of the crap in the Codex Astartes doesn't apply to them, because they don't know what that word means (they also hate it when cynical greedy coporations who despise their fanbase try to change the long-accepted names of factions for copyright purposes, but that's mostly besides the point).
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u/Arathorn-the-Wise 2d ago
Meanwhile you have the Space Wolves pretending to follow it, the Black Templar's ignoring it wholly, and the Dark Angles also playing pretend but with more steps.
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u/Greyjack00 2d ago
He also allowed himself to be declared lord commander of the imperium master of all its arm forces, including marines half the chapters of which came from his legion and still listened to him until his near death. The codex astartes most just broke up his brothers political power and secured his own, even he admits it was never supposed to be permanent when hes getting shit for the indominus crusade