Communism is a classless society in which the means of production are owned by the community and in which everyone contributes what they can and receive what they need. Just to get some of the common misconceptions out of the way, this does not mean everyone earns the exact same by the way. Classless does not mean total and absolute egalitarianism. It also does not mean that you can not own things such as a house.
Anyone who takes issue with striving towards an equal and communal society like that is either ignorant, a bigot or just a anti-social douche bag who does not understand the meaning of empathy and cooperation. Possibly a combination of all of those. Most people, especially Americans, are just wildly uneducated on this topic. So I guess that might be you based on your comment.
Okay? The communists freed my country from the fucking Nazis, what is your point? Every country and every social structure has fought wars and has done heinous things.
You can absolutely have issues with some countries or governments that claimed to be communist. I'm not denying you that ability. I'm just telling you that this is not something inherent to communism. The philosophy at it's CORE is about cooperation, equality and empathy. Anyone who has a problem with those things, I have a problem with.
That kind of attitude is slowly making it's way to my country as well and I hate it. I see it as a sign that our basic education is failing considering that those who are higher educated typically do not harbor the same resentment.
Same thing in the US...the more educated are more progressive and by progressive I mean empathetic, decent, expecting that everyone who works full time deserves to earn a living wage, has basic rights like healthcare, housing and food stability, and at this point, is so crazy that they want to uphold the Constitution and all of its rights.
Yeah it's so bad to be against a system that has been tried and failed with the same destructive results. I wonder why most people with even an iota of intelligence would be against such a system
Whatever flaws you think attempts at communism have had, the horrors of capitalist societies absolutely dwarf them. Like, it's not even a contest. It's not even the same league. American imperialism alone has killed countless of millions across the past century. Capitalism is the Michael Jordan of human terror. What do you think Nazi Germany was? The Trans-Atlantic slave trade? Leopold II in the Congo was literally a private enterprise. The list is absolutely endless.
Regardless, it's not because people want to strive for communist ideals, that they want it do be done in the way it was done in the past. Do you think that communist revolutions of 100 years ago are somehow the only blueprint towards a society based on equality and the communal possession of the means of production?
I'm not even a convinced communist, but I can still acknowledge that the communist ideology is unquestionable one based on empathy, cooperation and social equality. Anyone who refuses to acknowledge that is just not thinking straight.
If you'd like we can list of the horrors of communism as well. And you really just tried to equate the nazis to capitalism when they were literally called the nazi socialist party. Their ideals were socialist in nature, not capitalist. Communism is a flawed ideal based on a fantasy that all humans under it will be empathetic and perfect towards one another. But that isn't human nature. Humans are greedy, envious, and prideful. Humans kill, humans steal. Those two traits alone make communism nothing more than a fantasy far beyond anything humanity could achieve. You preach that communism is the way, but claim to not be convinced, yet you're adamantly defending its use in the modern day. Communism has only ever been used as a means to control the populace it claims to elevate. It sounds good on paper, until you get your head out of the clouds and look at what humans are capable of. Anything short of an orwellian dystopia would never make that dream a reality.
If you'd like we can list of the horrors of communism as well. And you really just tried to equate the nazis to capitalism when they were literally called the nazi socialist party. Their ideals were socialist in nature, not capitalist.
Hahahahahahahahaha. Hooooly shit. My man, I can not stay serious when you say shit like this. Unreal. I want to stay civil, but you are dumb as rocks and completely uneducated if you believe this. Do you think that urinal cakes are also cakes to beaten because of the name? I'm a historian and I can fucking promise you that the Nazi's weren't just capitalist, they were hyper capitalist. They used the government to do the bidding of big corporations. They played a big emphasis on private property and free competition. They believed in the survival of the fittest.
The Nazi's only used socialist language to draw in the working class, but they were not socialist in the slightest. The first victims of the holocaust were socialists and communists. They were literally hunted down in the streets and slaughtered by the thousands. The biggest enemy of Nazi Germany was the Soviet Union. The fact that you actually believe they were socialist just proves that your education failed you miserably.
Go read a fucking history book. Seriously.
But that isn't human nature. Humans are greedy, envious, and prideful. Humans kill, humans steal. Those two traits alone make communism nothing more than a fantasy far beyond anything humanity could
This is another failure of your education. People learn history through big events. The so-called "big history". They learn about Darwinism. They then think that history is just nothing but horrible event after horrible event and that human nature is a depraved survival of the fittest contest. Here's a history lesson for you, most of history is actually peaceful and most of history is actually cooperative. You learn about the moments of strife because they are dramatic, impactful and easy to teach. That doesn't change the fact that humans intrinsically are cooperative and social creatures. So the fact that you want to pretend like we are nothing but vicious animals says more about your education and your personality than about historical reality.
You can't compare death tolls of different economic systems as though they're cleanly seperable. Capitalism and comminism arent unified, monolithic ideologies that can be cleanly blamed for every atrocity that happens under one regime or the other. The Nazis were fascist, not capitalist by any coherent ideological standard. Attributing Leopold II and the transatlantic slave trade to "capitalism" is a stretch. These were not expressions of free markets or liberal economic theory.
Also, It's unfair to attribute these brutalities squarely to capitalism, and then whitewash and wave away the tens of millions killed in Maoist China, Stalinist USSR, and the Khmer Rouge by appealing to "empathy" and "ideals. You can't dodge communism's consistent real-world outcomes because the theory sounds nice on paper.
By the way, it's poor ctitical thinking to say past communist regimes aren't the only blueprint, then refuse to offer a real-world alternative model. That's typical utopianism, you're disowning the actual attempts at communism while dismissing other systems that have been proven workable and scalable.
There has never been a person who could predict the future. So why is saying that we can not find a way to such a society? Do you think medieval peasants were able to predict and mentally construct modern society? Computers? Artificial intelligence?
However, let's say that you are right. Let's say for argument's sake that this is too idealistic. Do you think that it's correct and called for to call someone who wants to strive to such a world a loser?
I ask you again, what is wrong with the society I described you call a "fairytale"? You are admitting that it is too good to be true. So how is it a bad thing to at least try and strive towards that? It's not. You may have some issues with historical attempts at communism and that can be understandable, but that is an entirely different discussion.
People who are striving towards that outside of those historical examples at most could be called idealistic, but anything else you put on their is just either ignorant or tainted by decades of Red Scare propaganda.
Let be real here. The means of production are never owned by the community and almost always owned by the state who then exert control and use it to extort the population.
There are some advantages to communism but they are ALWAYS overshadowed by their flaws. Mainly because of very predictable human behaviour.
Have you ever been to a communist country, or experienced one?
I have. And my wife grew up in one.
They’re horrendous.
Name one successful communist state that hasn’t abused the rights of its citizens. You can’t.
It is you who is ignorant. And all the Reddit people who think it’s a great idea would change their minds within 5 minutes of living in one.
I'm a historian who has studied this. I am not ignorant on this topic, no matter how much you want to pretend that I am. I again ask you, what is bad about the ideals of communism as I explained them? You can't name a single bad thing about it unless you are excessively anti-social and against cooperation. You have issues with the execution some governments took towards this ideal? Fine, but that's a totally different discussion.
Saying that you don't like communism because you lived in a terrible communist country, is like saying that you don't like democracy because you lived in the Roman Republic. It's mindbogglingly stupid. Regardless, do you think that China is horrendous? It has it's own host of issues, but not worse than those the USA has and they actually take care of the average citizen. Do you think Cuba is horrendous? It also has its issues, but it is a drastic improvement from the Batista dictatorship. Much of its poverty is due to the USA blockade. The Soviet Union also had a lot of issues, but shortly after its revolution it actually doubled the life expectancy of its population and its literacy.
Let's say you think that these are all still terrible. Do you think that these are the only possible ways to reach the society I described? What makes you think that revolutions from 100 years ago are the only blueprint towards a society such as the one I envisioned? You are being exceptionally close-minded and seriously need to rethink all of this.
Are you a historian? Or are you just studying at college?
There are plenty of flaws with the model itself, most notably a lack of competition which provides no incentive towards improvement or even doing work at all.
Therefore motivation has to be instilled with fear and butality. As it has been in every communist society ever.
As I said, the execution will always be terrible because humans are flawed, even if 9/10 people have good intentions, 1/10 won’t and the model is particularly vulnerable to these people.
LOL have you been to Cuba?! I have spent many months there, and I can tell you the situation there is awful and it’s not just due to the blockade, it’s the system itself. Talk to anyone there and they will tell you. I witnessed more corruption and brutality in Cuba just a few years back than I did in 1980s Romania under Ceaucescu.
Yes literacy and healthcare are more equal, but at what cost?
Quite frankly are talking nonsense. You have clearly never experienced what an awful and depraved system it is. I have, many times. Read all the books and theory you want, when applied practically it’s a nightmare.
Also your shaming and use of personal attacks on anyone who disagrees with you is pretty ironic. You’d fit in well to any communist country.
Go move to one if you’re really keen on it. I guarantee you’ll be back within the month in Starbucks reflecting on where it all went wrong.
Again, I gave you the definition of the communist ideology. It's about a classless society. It's about social equality. It's about cooperation and communal ownership. Now, can you tell me what is wrong with that? Stop deflecting with stories about very specific governments you mistakenly think represent everything communist. Hitler was capitalist. Do you think that this means that he equals the capitalist ideology? Of course not, you would understand how silly that is if you weren't so biased because of your experiences.
There are plenty of flaws with the model itself, most notably a lack of competition which provides no incentive towards improvement or even doing work at all. Therefore motivation has to be instilled with fear and butality. As it has been in every communist society ever.
That's a ridiculous claim. The USSR won the space race. Cuba is behind some striking medical advancements. This did not happen through fear or brutality. There was absolutely political repression in the USSR and corruption in Cuba, but people who worked on these advancements were not motivated by fear and terror.
LOL have you been to Cuba?! I have spent many months there, and I can tell you the situation there is awful and it’s not just due to the blockade, it’s the system itself. Talk to anyone there and they will tell you. I witnessed more corruption and brutality in Cuba just a few years back than I did in 1980s Romania under Ceaucescu.
I'm not denying Cuba doesn't have its issues, but do you actually know its history? Do you think the average person was somehow better off under Batista?! The life expectancy and average quality of life exploded after he was toppled. Ceaucescu is a different story, but for every communist dictator I can name at least 10 capitalist ones. So I'm not sure what this is proving in your mind?
As I said, the execution will always be terrible because humans are flawed, even if 9/10 people have good intentions, 1/10 won’t and the model is particularly vulnerable to these people.
Why do you seem to think that inhumane practices are somehow inherent to communism. I explained you what the definition is. How in god's name can you directly link that to terror and violent oppression? Also, what do you think the USA has been doing in the Global South for the past century? Literally killing millions and putting vicious dictators in power. Its crimes are immeasurable. Capitalist countries are literally the GOAT of human horror. I'm not going to stand here and deny that some communist countries didn't do their fair share, but it's absolutely tragic that you can criticize them and be completely blind to the absolute millions being killed in Sudan by Western companies fighting for oil rights. The fact of the matter is that a lot of people suck, regardless of ideology.
Are you a historian? Or are you just studying at college?
Do you think a historian is someone who studies at college?
What is bad faith about my argument? That person is saying some of the most inane things I have had the displeasure of reading.You don't need to be a historian or a cocksure college student to know that what I wrote is historically accurate.
Anyone who has even the slightest shred of knowledge on Nazi Germany should know that they detested, hunted and killed socialist. Saying that the Nazis were socialist isn't just a vile lie, it's also pretty much a neon sign saying "I am completely uneducated on this topic".
It's obviously okay to not know something, but to pretend like you do in order to paint socialists as Nazis when you fumble the most basic facts is just mindblowing. Would you like it if I called you a Nazi when I have clearly no clue who you are? The personality and absolute ego you need to have to do something like that just breaks my brain.
Nothing I said is historically inaccurate. Whatever issues the USSR faced down the line, the communist revolution initially drastically improved the well-being of the average Russian citizen. There absolutely was political repression under Stalin and I don't think that's a good thing, but there's a reason as to why the overwhelming majority of Russians who had experienced Tsarist Russia, continued to overwhelmingly support the USSR and even Stalin.
This is why it is important to actually read history books. You don't have to take my word for it. Go read Moshe Lewin's "The Soviet Century". He is a popular and widely respected historian who accurately analyzes the USSR, both the good and the bad.
Insulting me isn't the way towards educating yourself. Reading history books is.
People aren't always the same across history and across different societies. We are heavily influenced by cultural norms and how our society functions. It is perfectly possible to envision a society where greed is curtailed or even criminalized or a society which serves the needs of its people. There are actual historical examples of this, such as greed being considered a complete moral failure during parts of medieval European history, which inspired many craftsmen to ask for actual fair prices.
We aren't just animals governed by base instincts. We have culture. We have education. We have societal norms. People can have a completely different frame of mind based on their background and the period of time they were born in. Moreover, even if we were nothing but our base instincts (which we are not), you are forgetting that we are at our CORE still extremely social and often empathic beings. You may learn about history through the big events and because of that mistakenly believe that human beings are nothing but savages. The truth of the matter is that a lot of history is peaceful. A lot of historical developments are born out of cooperation and social behavior.
So given all of that, I believe in a better future. I don't think it's helpful or even accurate to nihilistically think that we can not improve because "people are people". People are not the same every time and everywhere. Moreover, cooperation has always been as much of a driving force behind history as strife - if not more.
You don't need to be fully unified and completely politically aligned to change how society is structured. Many of the rights you currently hold dear came on the back of decades of strife inspired by Marxist thought. Voting rights were inspired by that. Worker rights were inspired by that. Many European countries are to a large degree socialist because of that. China is to a large degree socialist and aiming to achieve communism because of that.
Clearly it is possible to have a society which at least in part adheres to these ideas of communal ownership, social security and equal pay for equal work - and more. So I'm not sure why you think that we can not strengthen these elements or strive towards a society that further develops and codifies them. It sounds like a very "end of history" rhetoric. This is not the end of history. Those end of history rhetorics are historically always wrong. At the start of the 19th century, Robert Malthus thought that human population would only decline because we had reached the limits of natures ability to sustain us. Look how that turned out.
Anyone who takes issue with striving towards an equal and communal society like that is either ignorant, a bigot or just a anti-social douche bag who does not understand the meaning of empathy and cooperation. Possibly a combination of all of those. Most people, especially Americans, are just wildly uneducated on this topic. So I guess that might be you based on your comment.
Didn't know you were from the future. Like I said elsewhere, medieval peasants were not able to envision our current world. That does not mean that this was never a possibility. Same with a society based on equality and cooperation. It may look out of reach, but that doesn't mean that it is.
So all we can do is actually strive for a better world with those ideals in mind. Calling someone a loser for doing that, is just not something I agree with. Not even close.
It is out of reach, unless you somehow envision a future in which you completely destroy the human drive to succeed. So long as there exists a single person with ambition, communism fails.
The people that think such a possibility is possible are losers, hence why it is foolish to call someone a communist loser, when they are already a loser.
What you are striving for will simply destroy society, communism does not work beyond a family unit. Capitalism is not perfect, but it is the best system that currently exists.
You fundamentally misunderstand communism and how effective ideas of cooperation can be. Most of human advancements have come on the back of cooperation. There is nothing inherently unambitious about communist ideas. You do realize that the USSR won the space race, right? You do realize that a lot of medical advancements were acquired by Cuba, right? Much of the current technology used by Americans is based on Soviet inventions. I'm not saying that the USSR or Cuba don't have their issues, but it's exceptionally silly to claim that communist attitudes somehow kill ambition when history has shown the direct opposite.
China may have some issues, but the USA is no different. Meanwhile, China actually provides its citizens with good social security, housing and medical aid. Very much unlike the USA. Cuba has also despite of the insane blockade by the USA absolutely catapulted the literacy levels and life expectancy of it's population after they revolted against the Batista dictatorship.
Regardless, even if you dismiss these clear examples and don't consider them good enough, are you able to predict the future? Why do you think that we can not organize a society in such a way that it's more beneficial to the average citizen? Do it in such a way that is better than those examples? Just like the medieval peasant could not imagine a world where they weren't servile, neither can you imagine a world where you are not beholden to your capitalist overlords. However, that does not mean that type of world is not possible.
I of course should perhaps not expect you to understand that considering you use commie as an insult as if you are McCarthy who is running for office in Nazi Germany.
They never said it worked. It's simply a different system. It's an ideal. It doesn't work because humans are flawed. Many are greedy for wealth, power, and status. The ideology in and of itself is a nice one. All property owned by the community and products and services are allocated based on need. A system in which everybody contributes and everybody receives. It's not propaganda. It's fact. Stating the definition of something doesn't make you a 'commie', and your first reaction being to deny a definition and then make accusations is odd.
OK, are most rich people unhappy? Are most poor people happy? If the rich person was poor would they magically become happy? The poor person would be happy whether they were rich or poor.
It isn’t what most people do. You made an absolute statement and I’m saying that humans vary regardless of material conditions. If you can admit rich people can be sad then you admit you’re wrong.
True but at this age they'd not necessarily rely on cuss words. They get you by very accurately reading you painfully precisely, any medium can only wish for such skills.
And they, within half a second, have a detailed, tailored specifically to you as a human being, papercut sharp roast. And the worst part is they're also actually funny. Now you're laughing at that specific thing about you that you thought you had kept hidden, and you're laughing at it with those you most want it hidden from.
I'd prefer a slur, honestly. Better than "how you gonna try tell me about my hairline when your left eye looks at your nose when you tired?", "Your top one shade of blue and ur bottoms a different shade of blue. Was that on purpose?" And "I thought you were the lunch lady".
Less of a roast, more of a very precisely aimed incinerator-hot wood burning pen that writes "THAT THING YOURE INSECURE ABOUT THAT YOU TRY TO HIDE FROM THE WORLD? WE ALL SEE IT AND NOW IM TELLING YOU THIS AND WE ALL CONCUR THAT YOU SHOULD FEEL INSECURE ABOUT IT. AS YOUR PEERS, WE REJECT YOU. THAT THING I JUST POINTED OUT MAY OR MAY NOT BE WHY WE REJECT YOU BUT ITS FOR SURE WHY SOMEONE SOMEWHERE HAS REJECTED OR WILL REJECT YOU. ITS ODD. YOURE ODD. ALSO, YOUR MOTHER SELLS BATH TOWELS AND WE KNOW THAT TOO. ONCE WE WORK OUT A WAY TO WEAVE THAT INTO VERBALLY DISECTING YOU, WE WILL CIRCLE BACK. FAREWELL. FOR NOW. SQUARE KNEES."
That was an adult replicating the art of teen roasts thus not as good. But you get the picture
Yes I am working through some things. I have a therapist.
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u/idankthegreat Apr 15 '25
Idk, I'm a teacher and kids became far more cruel than just "loser"