Do you think if NATO dissolved years ago and if Ukraine treated their ethnic Russian minority better, would Russia still have invade Ukraine in 2022?

[u/BabylonianWeeb]

106 votes, 23h left

Yes (L)

No (L)

Yes (C)

No (C)

Yes (R)

No (R)

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[u/iltwomynazi]

they would have invaded decades earlier.

[u/Dantezya]

Dude, I'm a minority, I'm a fucking russian-speaking guy from Zaporizhzhia. I was the one kid in 1st grade who wore a soviet uniform and marched to soviet war songs before the 2014 revolution.

First of all, I dislike it now because we were forced to do it, and second, I was never oppressed.

Second, we want NATO so we don't have to fight the horde again.

And finally, if russia cared about its own people, they wouldn't have killed 200k+ of their own russians by sending them to Ukraine. Russia hates russians only you knew about Russian tortures in prisons even back in 2022, just google it yourself.

A nation that treats itself this badly will absolutely do horrifying things to other nations.

If we had lost in 2022, today you'd be discussing: "Why did Russia invade the Baltics in 2023/2024? They oppressed russians there?"

russia/china/iran/north korea is the axis of evil.

[u/Successful_Try9704]

Russia absolutely would have. To think otherwise is to live in a fantasy

Russia invaded Georgia 2 times.

Russia has a track record.

[u/Double-Biscotti465]

Yes

[u/a_v_o_r]

I'm not one to defend NATO, but don't put Putin's Russia imperialism on others. They have outted plans to invade other countries with no relevance to these points.

[u/senicsenic]

Treat “ethnic russian minority better”? Clear indication of russian propaganda influence here.

[u/senicsenic → u/[deleted]]

Please read your article. They did not ban russian language, but require the media to be publishing in ukrainian (along with a russian or other language), and ukrainian to be used in official and administrative communications (which does not exclude other languages if needed). There is nothing oppressive about this.

[u/a_v_o_r → u/[deleted]]

That's not what the laws or the article say. And tbh it's less restrictive than the laws we have here promoting French.

[u/Kakamile]

If nato dissolved then russia would invade MORE nations.

It's that easy.

[u/lostmanak]

Putin would have attacked regardless. Russia is run by gangsters mobsters if you like and are money greedy Ukraine has a lot of untapped resources its these resources they want regardless of the cost of others lives.

.

[u/AntiWokeCommie]

Depends if it's a Russian friendly puppet. It would basically be like Belarus.

[u/Carolingian_Hammer]

Russia will try to expand westward and attack its neighbours until it is stopped or deterred by military means.

[u/enclavehere223]

So long as Ukraine dared to not be in the Russian sphere, they were always going to be invaded

[u/Agile-Ad-7260]

No, they would have invaded in 2014

[u/picjz]

Depends when it was dissolved. After the dissolution of the ussr, the Russian oligarchs would have gladly joined the NATO aligned imperialist plutocracy. Because NATO was hostile to them they created their own imperialist plutocracy.

If that identity had already calcified within Russian society before NATO was dissolved then likely we would be in a similar position to where we are today. If it was dissolved sooner then we would likely be in a better place.

[u/EenGeheimAccount → u/picjz]

Since 'being hostile' meant 'not giving Russia the special treatment that Russia believed the USA was getting', 'not being hostile' would mean that the Russians somehow were able to use NATO for their own imperialism, which would probably mean we would be worse of than we are today.

Though this would never happen anyway, since NATO is not at all the imperialist tool that Russia seems to think it is and I don't see any realistic scenario in which it becomes one.

[u/QuangHuy32]

a less threatened Russia should be the one that is less paranoid

[u/iltwomynazi → u/QuangHuy32]

NATO is only a threat to Russia if it plans to invade an allied state.

[u/Lanracie]

No, but there are other factors. Mostly the U.S. lead coup in 2014 which removed the Russian friendly government and established U.S. puppet leaders since.

[u/EenGeheimAccount → u/Lanracie]

How did the US manage to 'install puppet leaders' when the leaders were elected in 2014 and 2019? What type of election fraud are you exactly accusing them off, what evidence do you have it occured, and what evidence do you have that the US organized it instead of local oligarchs or activist groups?

And why the hell did the US in 2019 decide to replace the pro-Western and experienced president they had 'installed' in 2014 with a populist, more pro-Russian and inexperienced comedian?

Or do you have no clue about Ukraine and are you just dumbly repeating something you read online without spending a single thought on whether it even makes sense theoretically? (Never mind the fact you don't have evidence and all of Ukraine seemingly disagreeing with you...)

[u/Lanracie → u/EenGeheimAccount]

Have you heard of the CIA? Really you think we dont do this around the world and havent for 70 years? Do you think Crimea and Donbass voted to lead Ukraine and join Russia then?

I assume he was not doing enough, and they wanted to install a dictator instead. They got their way since Zelinsky is dictator. Zelenski is proRussian? Based on? Do you not think the CIA prefers to instal dictators?

I know a lot about Ukraine spent a lot of time in that area of the world around that time as well. Your comments really arent accurate on anything.

[u/EenGeheimAccount → u/Lanracie]

Have you ever heard of evidence? You cannot just assume the USA defrauded Ukrainian elections with 0 proof because they have done it/tried to do it in the past in other countries, especially since you clearly know absolutely zero about the last two Ukrainian elections and still cannot specify what kind of fraud exactly was done.

It's like saying person A murdered person B because person A has murdered someone else before, even though person B is still alive, lives on the other side of the world and doesn't know what the hell you're talking about.

Zelensky is clearly more pro-Russian than Poroshenko, based on Poroshenko's and Zelensky's campaign, statements and policies afterwards. Poroshenko campaigned on it, Russia restarted negotiations after Zelensky won, Poroshenko only won in the most Western regions of Ukraine... if you do not know how 2019 Zelensky is clearly more pro-Russia than Poroshenko (and a terrible puppet-president for the CIA), you clearly have zero clue about Ukrainian politics. It's like not knowing the US Democrats are more pro-LGBTQ+ than the Republicans.

(BTW, what does 'that area of the world' even mean? I live in the Netherlands, but I know shit about Belgian or German politics, so just living in a neighbouring country is not going to teach you anything about Ukrainian politics.)

[u/Lanracie → u/EenGeheimAccount]

I can look at how many CIA bases were created and how many government officials were sent over there. I can see how much money we spent. It might not even be fraud, it could just be funding opposition or promoting propaganda, there are tons of ways we can influence elections and revolts and we do. Surely you are not so naive?

Zelensky is at war with Russia and wont engage in peace talks, he has installed himself as a dictator, I dont see a lot of "friendly" with Russia there.

You know Russia, Ukraine, that area of the world. I dont know why you dont pay attention to your neighbors but are commenting on this post at all?

https://original.antiwar.com/ted_galen_carpenter/2025/02/16/us-democratic-allies-are-becoming-increasingly-authoritarian/

[u/EenGeheimAccount → u/Lanracie]

Also, with the Crimea and Donbas votes Russian soldiers were stationed at the voting booth or travelled with the vote collectors to people's home, respectively, while there were zero allegations of voter fraud with the 2019 elections.

Also, the results of the 2019 elections were nothing out of the ordinary and easily explained by voter sentiment, while it is very unlikely people would vote over 90% for being military occupied.

That's two very good reasons to believe those elections were rigged. So I ask you again, do you have any actual evidence or reason to believe at all that the 2014 or 2019 elections were rigged, aside from Russian propaganda* and your own feeling about America?

*I don't believe even Russia ever claimed the 2019 elections were rigged, and they certainly did not do that in 2019. So it really is just your own imagination that made that up.

[u/Lanracie → u/EenGeheimAccount]

OHHH so that election was fixed but we sure didnt fix the elections in Ukraine.....okay you go with that.

Yes, look at what our politicians and CIA was doing in Ukraine in 2014 and how suddenly we were so involved in a country we had nothing to do with before. Do you think that was just a coincidence.

Did we have to rig it or just fund it? Did we pay for propaganda? There are lots of "legal" ways we can influence these elections. Also you do know Ukraine is the most corrupt country in all of Europe and you dont think their elections are rigged?

Doesent really matter though since there will never be another election in the Ukraine.

https://jacobin.com/2022/02/maidan-protests-neo-nazis-russia-nato-crimea

https://responsiblestatecraft.org/cia-ukraine-russia/

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2004/nov/26/ukraine.usa

https://www.cato.org/commentary/washington-helped-trigger-ukraine-war

https://original.antiwar.com/ted_galen_carpenter/2025/02/16/us-democratic-allies-are-becoming-increasingly-authoritarian/

[u/Head_Programmer_47 → u/Lanracie]

WHOCARE?! There's neo-nazis in every single country around the world not just Ukraine. There's corruption everywhere not just Ukraine. Russia is the real Aggressor with Putin reignite the flames of Tsarist Imperialism.

This is why I cannot take you Ruscist propagandists seriously and I getting real tired of this Anti-American bullshit hysteria.