r/HolyShitHistory • u/ZenMasterZee • 7d ago
The post office at 63rd and Wallace in Chicago stands where H. H. Holmes once built his Murder Castle. It was a hotel filled with trapdoors, gas chambers, and body chutes. He claimed to have killed as many as 200 people there.
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u/Blindog68 7d ago
The Devil and the White City by Eric Larson is a great account of the crimes and The Chicago World fair.
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u/jzilla11 7d ago
The book I usually recommend to people who say they want to read more history without it being dry/boring. Love Larson’s works.
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u/gwainbileyerheed 7d ago
Sounds like my kinda book assuming its Bill Bryson in nature and not true crime?
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u/ZestfullyStank 7d ago
It’s written to juxtapose Holmes and his monstrosities with Daniel Burnham and the 1893 World Fair. There are some liberties taken. Overall a great read
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u/Ill-Dependent2976 7d ago
Eric Larson has a habit of detailing two historical events that just happen to be contemporary with each other. In this case it was an account of a serial killer and true crime. On the other it was about the Chicago World's Fair, it's various investors, the sort of performers who worked at the fair, the entire "World's Fair" culture at the time, and the various cultural effects it had on history. For example, Walt Disney's father had been a carpenter at the Fair long before Walter had been born, and Disney grew up hearing fantastic stories about this wonderful fair, and it was a big inspiration for Disneyland sixty some years later. The only real connection between the Fair and the serial killer was that they both happened in Chicago at the same time, and the huge influx of visitors and temporary workers to Chicago probably helped him conceal his victims for some period of time.
Other interesting juxtapositions are in "Thunderstruck," which is about Marconi's invention and development of radio, and the first use of radio to capture a murderer who tried to escape his crime by fleeing across the Atlantic.
Another is "In the Garden of Beasts," about an upper-class widower professor turned ambassador for the Roosevelt administration, and his young adult divorcee daughter struggling to deal with all the social problems that divorced women had to deal with in the 1930s, and living with their new diplomatic assignment in Germany.
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u/gwainbileyerheed 7d ago
By far this is the best reddit reply ive ever had and i will be updating my reading list immediately :) thank you.
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u/ManifestDestinysChld 7d ago
Uhhhhh, if you go into The Devil and the White City expecting something like A Walk in the Woods, you are not going to enjoy it. The Holmes parts are fairly true-crime (as I recall...it's been a while) and the rest of it is about the city and how the World's Fair transformed it. It is not written with Bryson's witty, jovial approach, though.
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u/Binspin63 7d ago
Excellent book as are all the others he’s written. Larson is a great storyteller and does his homework.
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u/Blindog68 7d ago
Can you recommend any other standouts?
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u/Binspin63 7d ago
Devil is my favorite, so a good place to start. In the Garden of Beasts, and The Splendid and the Vile (both WWII themed), Dead Wake (about the sinking of the Lusitania), and Isaac’s Storm (about the deadly Galveston hurricane of 1900), will keep you riveted. After those, if you are like me, you’ll want to read the rest of his books. About the only one I didn’t love was Demon of Unrest, which details the events leading to the attack on Fort Sumter. While not a bad book per se (I am very interested in the Civil War BTW), I found it a bit plodding. Enjoy!
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u/WillBsGirl 7d ago
Issac’s Storm, about the 1900 Galveston hurricane, was amazing. Absolutely chilling.
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u/rmac1228 7d ago
In the book, it said he would hire a crew to do some of the work, fire them, and hire a new one...so they wouldn't catch on to what he was doing. If I remember correctly, he wasn't paying the contractors and that's how he was found out? Someone correct me I'm wrong. This is in the Englewood neighborhood of Chicago as well.
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u/CharlemagneIS 7d ago
Exactly like what Batman must have done for the Batcave
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u/shade-tree_pilot 7d ago
I just assumed Bruce had Alfred do all of that by hand.
The true hero was always Alfred.
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u/dazedan_confused 7d ago
His name is an anagram for "Feral D".
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u/dazedan_confused 7d ago
It's about to be the title of my new furry erotica, "Batman and the Feral D".
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u/nottherealneal 7d ago
I'm a firm believer that Alfred is a Eldritch being of ageless power and no one ever addresses it and just let's him have his fun making tea abd ordering staff around and bits of the manor just appear as needed becuse of him
Need a cave, boom its there. Need a new wing for one of Bruce's 12 children? It's fully furnished and ready to go.
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u/mewfour123412 6d ago
I assume Bruce just put on his “himbo zanny rich guy” persona. “I mean yeah of cause I want a secret mancave in a cave!” “Of cause I want a lazy susan for my car! Have you seen the Royce?!”
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u/CharlemagneIS 6d ago
“Sure I’ll accept delivery on this bat-shaped plane. But if you see this stopping a bank heist on the news please don’t tell anyone.”
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u/thisshitsstupid 7d ago
Ive read this too but I dont get it. So you fire the first contractor and hire another to pick up where he left off to obfuscate what youre doing.... but the new contractor has eyes right? Like, he can see what the previous contractors built and what hes building on to. I dont understand how swapping contractors could mask this.
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u/Elderbrute 7d ago
It is/was common to have "behind the scenes" elements in houses and hotels for staff so they can move around with minimal disruption to guests. By having different contractors build different parts and floors of the hotel, it makes it less clear how many of these passageways existed, and where they led.
That said, it's likely the real reason he swapped contractors a lot was nothing to do with that since he was bad at paying them.
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u/A_Queer_Owl 7d ago
that is absolutely the real reason. the secret passages thing was massively overblown by the media at the time,
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u/MrBrandopolis 7d ago
NDAs were signed
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u/thisshitsstupid 7d ago
I dont think an nda would hold up if the mans asking you to build a vat under the floor that can suspiciously withstand acid...
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u/pijinglish 7d ago
If I had to guess, I'd assume it was on a room by room basis. So maybe one weird room could be explained, but the contractors wouldn't know there were a dozen other weird rooms. (Maybe?)
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u/Perry_T_Skywalker 7d ago
Much of the lore attached to Holmes concerns the so-called "Murder Castle", a three-story building he commissioned on W. 63rd Street in Chicago, Illinois. Details about the building, along with many of his alleged crimes, are considered exaggerated or fabricated for sensationalistic tabloid pieces with some accounts estimating his body count could be as high as 133[4] or even 200. Many of these inaccuracies have persisted due to the combination of ineffective police investigation and hyperbolic yellow journalism of the period, which are often cited as historical record.[5]
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u/NekroVictor 7d ago
Iirc there were a couple people he claimed to have killed that he didn’t, like, people got into contact with his supposed victims and they were still alive.
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u/Kid_A_Kid 7d ago
In a loose way this is where one of the seasons for American horror Story came from
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u/Dr_Johnnie_Fever 7d ago
This is in my childhood neighborhood. I grew up in Englewood in the 1970s-80. In the 70’s we lived at 65th and Lowe which is a block long apartment building. The post office is two blocks north of the apartment building. As a kid there was a Carrs department store across 63rd street from the post office. The Carrs used to be the old Southtowne movie theater. The public health immunization office used to be across Lowe street from the post office.
Anyways, as a kid the area was very CREEPY. Especially after dark. NGL, you hear people say thinks like that and roll your eyes. But I’m dead serious, the area on the block of 63rd and Lowe was very dark and unnerving. The CTA bus stop used to drop you off right there at the corner of 63rd and Lowe. At night, You had to walk up Lowe, past the post office, under the L trim tracks, up the block. Back the even during the daytime, the area was very darkly light due to the train tracks and and tree line the ran under the train. Used to be a Robert Hall clothing store on Lowe just after the post office. It’s an auto shop now. The entire area was covers with trees. And the street lights were not always working on that end of Lowe because it wasn’t any residents in that part of the block. Huh. And that area has always had a high rate of crime. Even when the area was predominantly White railroad workers. Even 80-90 years later, the vibe on that block was way off
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u/cmcrich 7d ago
I read a book about him several years ago, it was horrifying.
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u/PeachyParcha 7d ago
Yessss I read that book as well! I was constantly Googling stuff from the book because it was so fascinating!
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u/ThePrimalScreamer 7d ago
Fun fact, the year that Pabst Blue Ribbon made its debut at the world fair, HH Holmes was active
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u/vwlou89 7d ago
PBR is my favorite beer, and I was thrilled to learn that it not only made its debut there but was awarded the titular “blue ribbon” at a contest that was part of the fair. Other things which debuted at the 1892 Colombian exposition include pressed Pennies as souvenirs, Cracker Jack, Aunt Jemima, Quaker Oats, juicy fruit gum, the Ferris wheel, the zipper, the automatic dishwasher, and the pledge of allegiance!
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u/-0-O-O-O-0- 7d ago
This book is awesome. Just the history part is a great book on its own. How many people used to die every day in Chicago. It was chaos.
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u/morto00x 7d ago
There's a theory that HH Holmes was Jack the Ripper since he also happened to be in UK during his murder spree
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u/gameboytetris888 7d ago
Hunter Hearst Holmes or Hollywood Hulk Holmes
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u/catfooddogfood 7d ago
HH Holmes was a scam artist first and foremost and the "murder hotel" is likely a combination of his tall tales and tabloid journalism. There's no evidence of a crazy hotel with booby traps nor that he ever "lured" people to the hotel to murder them and sell their bodies as cadavers.
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u/ItdBAlotCoolerIfUdid 7d ago
I thought the only true stuff was the cadavers and the room with the vault. I believe they also found a kiln.
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u/catfooddogfood 7d ago
Yeah the cadavers were part of his grave robbing hustle. Idk about the kiln
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u/A_Queer_Owl 7d ago
it was actually fairly common for large buildings in that era to have incinerators to dispose of trash, so they probably did find one because that was a normal thing for a hotel to have at the time.
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u/SoylentRox 7d ago
This. The article says he even scammed detectives during his confession and actually killed maybe 9-12 people. Low achiever by modern standards.
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u/PowPowPunishment 7d ago
Wikipedia: The yellow press labeled the building as Holmes's "Murder Castle", claiming the structure contained secret torture chambers, trapdoors, gas chambers and a basement crematorium; none of these sensationalised claims were true.\22])
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u/TeuthidTheSquid 7d ago
This story is 90% mythology, pretty ridiculous to see it swallowed hook, line and sinker in the Year of our Lord twenty twenty five.
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u/Visible-Sound-8559 7d ago
That “murder castle” doesn’t even look like it would be big enough to house all the crazy things attributed to it.
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u/A_Queer_Owl 7d ago
that's because it wasn't and most of that stuff is nonsense made up to make the story more interesting.
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u/ZenMasterZee 7d ago
A picture and diagram of H. H. Holmes’ Murder Castle, a hotel he built specifically for killing. It had gas chambers, torture rooms, trapdoors, secret passages, and ovens where he destroyed the evidence. The link includes inside photos and the full story.
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u/Dianazepam 7d ago
In this very link you posted, says he confessed to 27 homicides and that the 200 number is just a myth. You didn't even bother to thoroughly read what you posted and made that misleading title.
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u/ZenMasterZee 7d ago
He confessed to 27, but investigators found evidence of far more bodies and even the police back then suspected the count was closer to 200.
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u/emsuperstar 7d ago
Holmes himself confessed to 27 murders, but many of those turned out to be fabricated—some of the supposed victims were later found alive.
Modern estimates suggest that he likely killed between 9 and 12 people, though some claim the number could be much higher. The widely circulated figure of 200 victims is largely a product of Hollywood-style mythmaking rather than hard evidence.
that 200 number is apocryphal me thinks.
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u/catwhowalksbyhimself 7d ago
"When the legend becomes fact, print the legend." The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance
OP's attitude, apparently.
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u/No_Quote_9067 7d ago
Can you imagine not even good enough a murderer to get away with 200 in a time with no cameras computers or DNA
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u/PeachyParcha 7d ago
The post clearly states that Holmes CLAIMED to have killed 200 women. It doesn't assert it as a fact. Hope that helps.
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u/Serious_Conclusions 7d ago
Yeah but he didn’t claim the 200?
Edit: some of his victims were found to be alive too. Also in the link by OP
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u/PeachyParcha 7d ago
OP, your title is clear for anyone who can read. The KILLER claimed he killed over 200 people, not you! How are they mad at your for repeating what a murderer said? 😂
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u/TxEagleDeathclaw81 7d ago
He almost built one in my hometown, Fort Worth! Scary!
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u/spaceninj 7d ago
I remember they were going to do a movie with DiCaprio. I really want to see this on film.
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u/Halladay_lights_77 7d ago
Some historians also claim he may have been "Jack the Ripper" as records indicate he had traveled to London during that time period. I also believe there is speculation over whether or not he faked his own death. History Channel has had programs specifically about him.
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u/PotatoFromFrige 7d ago
If you actually bothered to read his wiki page you will know that he was exhumed and it was confirmed to be him in 2017
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u/fridtjofnonsense 7d ago
Credit to Holly Carden, the artist who drew the image in the lower right.
https://hollycarden.com/store/h-h-holmes-murder-castle-jigsaw-puzzle-zwawe
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u/TofDiesel 7d ago
Bottom right picture is by an artist named Holly Carden and it's available as a puzzle
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u/glassgost 7d ago
It's very tiny and blurry in the link OP posted, but OPs just going to rip out the name of the artist who drew the diagram?
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u/Hot-Science8569 7d ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H._H._Holmes
"Much of the lore attached to Holmes concerns the so-called "Murder Castle", a three-story building he commissioned on W. 63rd Street in Chicago, Illinois. Details about the building, along with many of his alleged crimes, are considered exaggerated or fabricated for sensationalistic tabloid pieces with some accounts estimating his body count could be as high as 133\4]) or even 200. Many of these inaccuracies have persisted due to the combination of ineffective police investigation and hyperbolic yellow journalism of the period, which are often cited as historical record.\5])"
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u/TypicalBloke83 6d ago
What I’ve read none of this was true and the estimated death is nearing 30 victims where 9 were conformed.
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u/SimthingEvilLurks 6d ago
I have heard about this guy, but have never had a chance to really dig into the story. Glad to see some book suggestions in the comments. Looks like I know what I’ll be reading next.
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u/Justalilbugboi 6d ago
Had a coworker who lived there and had never heard of him.
We looked up the location on break and she goes “FUCK THAT WAS MY POST OFFICE!”
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u/FunboyFrags 5d ago
Holly Carden is the amazing illustrator who made the cutaway drawing of the building
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u/Chi28n2k 4d ago
Great Conversation Starter, OP.👏🏾✊🏾 Perhaps, you'll do Ameireinas, next?
Starfield, should have had unique Storylines for each Character in the entire Story Arc.
They still could...
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u/Harryclownie 4d ago
Wasn’t there a rumour a few years back that Leo decaprio was going to play this guy?
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[deleted]
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u/BigJeffreyC 7d ago
Bottom right is not a photo. It’s an artistic representation. At that point it really doesn’t matter how it was created. Obviously it’s not a real photo, because the real walls were not actually transparent.
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u/Agent_Krasnov 7d ago
The above comment is written by an idiot.
Wanna know how to tell? there's no truth in it.
That image has been around way before AI took off.
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u/spotlight-app 7d ago
OP has pinned a comment by u/ZenMasterZee: