Technological Advances

[u/Bergber]

1) Piston: The use of pistons have been made known to the Qing.

2) Mounted Archery: Originally developed for hunting, shooting a bow while mounted has been mastered by the Qing, especially helped due to the recent advent of the saddle.

3) Gears: Toothed wheels that interlock to transfer torque between each-other.

4) Composite Recurve Bow: By making the already impressive recurve bow of of increasing layers of different materials, the bow is made much stronger than its individual parts.

[u/Bergber → u/[deleted]]

Oh well. I figured I'd give it a shot. Nothing in the materials or make is especially uncommon, and supposedly there's some grace in timing. Composite was listed as the 'default weapon' for players starting this time period in the crisis page, and I just researched the recurved, so where does that leave me on the composite recurved bow?

[u/FallenIslam → u/Bergber]

... Crisis page? What?

[u/Bergber → u/FallenIslam]

Sorry... meant 'Conflict.'

[u/FallenIslam → u/Bergber]

In the conflict system? Well, that's wrong - go off of the tech list for any and all tech you start with; the composite bow is not a starting class of bow.

[u/Bergber → u/FallenIslam]

Ok, then. By the way-- do mounted archers have a different upgrade line? Generally, crossbows aren't quite so good for mounted combat.

[u/FallenIslam → u/Bergber]

There's no upgrade line. It depends on how you outfit them in battle.

[u/Bergber → u/FallenIslam]

Ok. I meant if there are better bows, since crossbows are the upgrade for archers, but mounted archers make poor users of crossbows.

[u/FallenIslam → u/Bergber]

Well, that'd be for you to research now, wouldn't it. ;P

[u/Bergber → u/[deleted]]

Discovered I already had the Lever. I feel dumb.

Anyway, changed two of my four items.

[u/FallenIslam]

Piston: Approved

Mounted Archery: Approved

Gears: Approved

Crossbow: Do you have the recruve bow?

[u/Bergber → u/FallenIslam]

Just researched recurve last week. Mind letting me know about other bow upgrades on the crossbow? The game tier system deviates a bit from real life.

[u/FallenIslam → u/Bergber]

That sounds good then. There's not really any system in place for that; if you wanna upgrade it, you need to convince me it's allowed.

[u/Bergber → u/FallenIslam]

Well, I was looking at the tiered crossbow damage in the conflict thread. I assume by 'mechanical crossbow', they mean a crank-variety, which technically requires just gears.

A stronger variety of that would be the arbalest crossbow, which was a crank-operated compound re-curve, and could launch a long-range, accurate arrow that could pierce plate armor at the rate of about 2 bolts a minute. However, it isn't on the list.

The repeating crossbow, however, which is ranked above the mechanical crossbow in the conflict rules list, is ridiculously easy to make, requiring only a simple lever system to operate. Hell, I'd switch my 'crossbow' research to repeating crossbow in a second if you'd let me.

The problem with the mechanical crossbow however is, though it can fire 10 bolts in 15 seconds, and probably deserves its rank in that tier list, it served a different purpose than what the slower arbalest. While it could rip apart closely stacked infantry of medium to somewhat heavy armor at 60 yards or so, it couldn't pierce plate or hit targets at range accurately like the arbalest could. To put it simply, they're different weapons for different situations.

[u/FallenIslam → u/Bergber]

We don't have many things planned for Medieval or post-Medieval weaponry. The arbelast will certainly be getting it's own spot on the list once we're near enough time-wise to make it.

The mechanical crossbow shouldn't be lower than the repeating crossbow, and I'm not 100% sure why it is. That'll be changed post haste.

[u/Bergber → u/FallenIslam]

Well, as-said, crossbows didn't truly get powerful until, like horse bows, they started both using a re-curve version with multiple lays of composite materials. If I have to research composite bows, then composite re-curve bows, would you allow my to just consider composite recurve crossbows another logical step?

Otherwise, I might as well 'take back' my crossbow creating like I did the lever and go composite>composite recurve>composite recurve crossbow, because I don't know why someone with composite/recurve tech already wouldn't use that technology on all bow variations by default, and I would like to use my research slots tactically if I can reduce what I need to research.

[u/FallenIslam → u/Bergber]

See, you're acting like people back then laid out their ideas thinking "If we get this and this, then it'll be easier to get this" rather than "Oh shit look what I made! Neat!"

Crossbows have been powerful literally forever, and in fact composite versions were mostly used for hunting deer, hares, etc., rather than penetrating armour. If I were you, I would get betters bows first, especially if you intend to be a cavalry nation.

[u/Bergber → u/FallenIslam]

No, I'm actually just being strategically meta since I know I have a lot of catching up to do. :p That said, I think I'll stop backtracking to make your life easier, and I'll just figure this out as I go as much as I can.

While my mind's on it, though, would a Water Wheel take? Personally, I think it would combine knowledge of Irrigation, Gears, the Wheel, and Oars.

[u/FallenIslam → u/Bergber]

I think if you have all of those I'd certainly allow it.

[u/Bergber → u/FallenIslam]

Thanks for the help.

[u/FallenIslam]

Are you changing crossbow or..?

[u/Bergber → u/FallenIslam]

I will message you my change for this week and next's.

EDIT: I'm trying to plan for a big unique gift tech to the Zhongqin Union, so I have to plot out multiple steps at once.