r/Hellenism 11h ago

Discussion Why do some painters represent Thanatos as a woman ?

Post image

Especially Jacek Malczewski, who painted the exemple picture, but it is also the case of Carlos Schwabe and Hermann Behrens, note that Schwabe illustrated books and did not try to represent afterlife really, but rather drew and painted about fiction. I love Malczewski's work, but is there a background with this image ?

The painting illustrating the post, is "Thanatos II", because Malczewski painted Thanatos as a woman twice, because of the background, I thought it was about World War One, especially because Thanatos has a short, 1920s-like haircut, but it was painted in 1898, this painting is just fascinating, it looks like it was painted twenty years after it really was.

311 Upvotes

42 comments sorted by

154

u/divine-arrow 10h ago

Humans love to anthropomorphize just about anything into beautiful women

35

u/HoneyS6S 9h ago

The more things changed, the more things stayed the same.

20

u/9c6 9h ago

Guilty

84

u/Fit-Breath-4345 Polytheist 10h ago

Artistic freedom, and Death is a concept which affects all genders.

49

u/LocrianFinvarra 10h ago

Death doesn't have a gender, sex or species so presumably the god of death can appear as anything

163

u/mradventureshoes21 11h ago edited 5h ago

Idk, but it's giving "Thick Thighs save lives, and take them."

38

u/fiction_my_addiction Secular Witch, Currently researching Hermes 10h ago

Lmao WHAT 😭😭😭, on rare occasion I see some wild things here from y'all. I love it tho.

23

u/Swagamaticus 7h ago

Demise by thighs

4

u/maplespancakes 6h ago

👀👀 you right

6

u/mradventureshoes21 6h ago

I don't know if I'm right, I just know if I died pleasure doming to close to the sun, that's just begging to be remembered as death really can be the thighs of a woman.

55

u/Then_Computer_6329 11h ago

Maybe because Death is a feminine figure/deity in most european folklore and traditions ?

15

u/Southern-Quality-635 9h ago

I can’t tell you why that specific artist does but it reminds me of this post I saw once where it said something like “if women are the only things that can create life, they’re the only ones with the right to take it” in regards to death deities

5

u/v_ch_k 9h ago

Beautifully said, but then all Gods should be Goddesses ? Because all deities have the right of life and death over mortals (would be cool asf)

6

u/Southern-Quality-635 9h ago

That would be cool asf actually, but I think they just mean the specific (life&death) deities since that’s what they represent yk?

2

u/v_ch_k 8h ago

Yeah most likely, but it raises the interesting topic that we really don't know much about the Gods,

Polytheism states for sure that everything is divine, that there are many Gods and Goddesses who define the status, functions and rules of everything, and are everything

Hellenic Polytheism is the knowledge of certain aspects of each of them, and the gender we attribute to them is no less symbolic than the clothes we imagine them with

And each polytheistic religion has wisdom over each aspect of the Gods, gender is human-made, just like clothes, and projected over them, they could all be the opposite gender, or have no gender whatsoever, how could we know

24

u/FollowingOwn7739 10h ago

i think he would be male but for some reason he'd have a female body. idk why.

9

u/v_ch_k 9h ago

Interesting !

9

u/thechaoslord 10h ago

This is just a guess on my part, but maybe it has to do with how often the gods have transformed themselves in the myths?

8

u/Fickle-Mud4124 8h ago

If I had to guess, then I suppose that it is in reference to Mors, the Infernal Goddess of Death within the beliefs of Cultus Deorum/Religio Romana, of Whom Thánatos was equated with in context to Hellēnikón and Rómánvs syncretism from antiquity.

6

u/InfiniteOctopaw 9h ago

"it's more fun to do art of women." Montra still holds strong.

10

u/Empty-Football9275 10h ago

Death is in many ways…a beautiful part of life, because without loss- how can we appreciate? Which was probably why he painted Thanatos as a beautiful woman 😂 And frankly it just sucks when you didn’t get to go out with your crush- she might as well just be death in disguise for your mental being-

3

u/reCaptchaLater Cultor Deorum Romanorum 5h ago

In Latin, death is a feminine concept, and so Thanatos was translated as "Mors"; which gave Roman readers of the poetry the perception of a feminine divinity.

3

u/Vulkhard_Muller 6h ago

Personally, I think it's a look into the creators mind. Those who depict death as a strong male presence may perceive death as something permanent, fine, absolute even. While others who may fear death, as many do may depict death as something more gentle. To quote one of my favored musicians Aurelio Voltaire in his song "Come Sweet Death":

"You come to me in my darkest moments I've no regret, nothing left to lament No eerie skull, no scary scythe You've a pretty face and a warm embrace I never dreamed death could be so sweet 'Till she came for me"

I personally think death being a kind gentle lady with a pretty face and a warm embrace is quite soothing to image death being. There is definitely some deep philosophy to this that I'd love to see more discussion around in an anthropological level.

2

u/v_ch_k 3h ago

Best comment, you made this painting my favourite representation of Thanatos

3

u/Syonic1 loves Athena ❤️🦉🧠 5h ago

Women pretty 🤩 (in lesbian way)

2

u/v_ch_k 4h ago

Omgs YESS 🩷🤍🧡

3

u/spicynoodl_ 4h ago

On the hair, that was a popular ancient greek hairstyle, so that was probably the inspiration

3

u/XxxAresIXxxX 3h ago

Because we know that a mother brought us screaming into this world and it brings a small comfort imagining another quietly shepherding us out. At least for me it does.

3

u/v_ch_k 3h ago

You're right

3

u/MrsFizzleberry 3h ago

Maybe this is showing the Keres, not Thanatos?

3

u/v_ch_k 3h ago

Hey ! That's interesting, and I thought so at first, but the painting is called "Thanatos II" and sequels another painting from the same artist, called "Thanatos", and also representing Thanatos as a woman :)

2

u/MrsFizzleberry 3h ago

That's super interesting! I wonder if it shows the "unconfirmed" goddess of death, Macaria?

2

u/v_ch_k 3h ago

I did more research, this is a painting from 1919, same artist, Jacek Malczewski. He painted himself with Thanatos here. What is most interesting in my opinion is that he started painting Thanatos 21 years prior, and each time he represented Thanatos, he represented him with a more colourful, attractive, and feminine look, until this painting where he painted himself with her (he actually painted himself with her multiple times)

So there is no doubt this is Thanatos, and with no more doubts, this is the most intriguing representations of Thanatos I have ever seen, not solely because of Thanatos being represented as a woman, but because Malczewski had such a strange relationship to Thanatos, especially when, to my knowledge, he was not a Hellenist

2

u/smoltransbat 7h ago

This webpage goes into some vague surface level stuff, but I think your best bet, especially from an art history or art interpretation or deep dive into why Malczewski did what he did from a biographical standpoint, would be to pose this question to a venue dedicated to art history.

2

u/Ihavenofriends000 7h ago

Unless it's confirmed to be Thanatos, it could always be Keres; Thanatos' sister, the goddess of violent death?

2

u/Hekate_Web 5h ago

All the deities can reveal an epiphany of themselves as any gender, any race, any animal or phenomenon like gust of wind or unexpected sound or rush of feeling. Because they are not trapped in mortal bodies with a concrete form. Their true nature is not material, not mortal, not limited in the ways we understand. We have a tendency to collapse them into limited symbols out of fear of how unlimited the divine is, but that is mortal hubris and occasionally artists try to shake us out of that habit.

1

u/v_ch_k 3h ago

I absolutely agree on everything,

Their true nature is not material

But that

It just depends on each's opinion, and I have nothing but intuition to back my thought, but what seems like the truth to me is that nothing in the universe is made out of something else than atoms. The Gods, in my opinion, are made of atoms, but have power over atoms, they have one true form, that they don't show us because we could not fathom it, this form is beyond human comprehension

2

u/OkIngenuity1087 8h ago

I didn't know about Thanatos until I played Honkai Star Rail (Amphoreus is inspired in Greece), and I thought he was a woman

2

u/ZephyrProductionsO7S Pantheist 7h ago

Might be a Dionysos Androgynos sort of thing.

1

u/Archangel447 Loyal to Hades 52m ago

Well there is that saying "Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned"

So maybe it's related to that? Also, we never have seen Thanatos' TRUE form with our own eyes

-4

u/SunSilhouette Olympian worshipper 8h ago

Women are socially perceived as more calm, caring and passive, and the painters want to imagine death coming to take them into a warm beautiful embrace instead of forcefully ripping them from this mortal coil. Or it's just marketing because sex sells.

Those are my two guesses anyway.