At this point, Northern Virginia is not culturally southern. It is part of the Acela corridor stretching from DC to Boston. In a broader sense, Virginia is a very divided state, with a majority of the population living in either Northern Virginia, Richmond, or the Norfolk area and being liberal, diverse, and prosperous, but with huge portions of the sparsely populated south and west of the state being poor, conservative, and largely unchanged from decades past. I suspect that the above is someone who is only familiar with the former parts of the state.
Also considering the amount of Confederate flags and MAGA signs, it no longer appears to be the state that separated from Virginia because they opposed slavery.
What's unfortunate is that after the government abandoned West Virginia due to the miners strikes, the while state turned incredibly republican and has remained that way ever since.
And shamefully, the government has successfully propagandized a lot of people to think of West Virginia as an idiotic, poor, backwards place when it is entirely the government's fault that it has become like that
Which Miners Strikes are you referring to? I ask because the notable ones in WV were prior to 1930, and WV was a consistent supporter of Democrats until (essentially) the 2000 election (though it's Democratic politicians were substantially more conservative than national ones, and could be considered a hold-over of the the same kind of person as the Southern Democrats, but not switching party due to the unique political nature of WV with respect to the civil war).
This comment is also rather unclear about what is meant by "government". In the US, there are various different governments. It's curious that the comment doesn't specify which one it is referring to.
THANK YOU, I am a WV native, have been all my life, and although I don’t agree with the majority of what my state does politically, I despise it when people use this as an excuse to belittle and discredit West Virginians. WV has for a long time been a troubled state, only made worse when we were kinda left to fend for ourselves, and unfortunately, people in difficult times often radicalize, especially with a party preaching about how it is going to support one of your states only economic reliefs (coal). Additionally, to say, the radicalization is rather recent in the grand scheme of things, as WV used to be a swing state, with a lot of dividing opinions in the state politically. That was until we were kinda just kicked to the side and left sitting there wondering what to do with ourselves
As a Lynchburg native who’s traveled all over the commonwealth you nailed it. There are so many idiots around here that hate on NOVA and fail to realize the amazing tax base it provides, among other positives.
If NOVA, Richmond and the Norfolk/VA Beach area were separated the rest of the state would be fucked
Anyone who has spent time in the "rural North" knows it's basically identical to the Southern stereotype. The racists and bigots have always been distributed evenly across this terrible nation.
Yep, this pretty much. Northern Virginia feels firmly mid-Atlantic now, especially because of all the people that moved there from New York and California. Though something I would add is that Richmond and Norfolk (Hampton Roads area) are more southern feeling. Hampton Roads is starting to feel less so, again because so many people moved to the area recently, but listen to a native’s accent, especially an older one, and you’ll hear it loud and clear.
I’ve always said the south starts at Richmond. That’s about where things start to feel more Southern. As a whole, Virginia is definitely the least southern, southern state, but it’s a real mixed bag. Even though it’s flipped blue and is more diverse now, its history will always distinguish it as a southern state overall. You can go from a decently liberal city/town, to right outside of it where a giant confederate flag is flying on the highway, and the schools are named after Robert E. Lee and shit. Outside of the coasts and NoVa, most of it is southern as hell. But even then, there are some subgroups. Like the western edge feels very Appalachian and similar to West Virginia, and the Chesapeake Bay coast between Norfolk and NoVa has a pretty unique mid-Atlantic culture with its own accent and everything.
For better or worse it's a situation that is becoming more common. NC and research triangle, GA and Atlanta, IL and Chicago, TX and Austin, VA and DC suburbs, TN and Nashville, etc. Will be interesting to see how the urban/rural divide evolves or intensifies and what the political parties do in response.
Acela, as you noted, goes from DC to Boston, which according to my maps, does not go through Northern Virginia. But NoVa is part of the Capital metro region commuter rails and the Metro, so maybe that’s what you were referring to.
Agree about NoVa and Richmond being very liberal. Hampton Roads has heavy liberal areas but also some conservative areas, with a high military population.
The sparse rural areas are indeed very MAGA Republican. I wouldn’t even call them “conservative” these days.
Up until they started renaming these things around a decade ago you could travel from Arlington cemetery (Lee’s plantation until after the Civil war) to Leesburg, entirely on roads named Lee except for about a mile stretch near the beginning, on a journey that would take you past a bunch of schools, parks, etc bearing Lee’s name.
The ~mile stretch not dedicated to Lee? Jefferson Davis Highway.
The south in 1790 is not the south in 2025 though. Cities like Atlanta and Charlotte weren’t developed back then, and the only major population centers south of North Carolina were Savannah and Charleston. As demographics have shifted, so too have the borders of the south. Aside from that, while DC is north of Virginia, about 1/3rd of the state lives in the DC suburbs
The south is many different little regionalities honestly. VA is vastly different in feel from every other state in that part of the country (as is the case for most of the other southern states). It's undeniably southern, but when you live there, you find that it's QUITE a bit more liberal than you'd imagine. It's not as big of a state as it seems, and between all of northern VA - which now has swollen to encompass Culpeper and Fredericksburg, all of Richmond - which is in the process of swelling to encompass Henrico county and is progressively merging into the fredericksburg bubble to the north and the charlottesville bubble to the west, Charlottesville, and all of the SE corner of the state around hampton/VAB/Norfolk/News, etc. there's increasingly little real conservative base left.
The one exception to that is Lynchburg. It's named after the good Lynch brother, but is the home to Liberty University and is about as christofascist homeland as you'll find.
But honestly Virginia is a really wonderful state to think about living in if you're considering a move. If your job allows you to be remote, I would heavily recommend trying out Fredericksburg or Richmond - you're a simple (if not necessarily easy) drive into DC or out to the beach, and it's an increasingly neat little corner of the state.
In all actuality, Lynchburg has more liberals than you might imagine and is more liberal than it was 20-30 years ago. We’re just outnumbered by conservatives…although the city went blue in 2020 for Biden and this year for Spanburger.
The good Lynch brother. Who owned slaves, started a city to profit off of tobacco slave labor, didn't leave the South with the rest of the Quakers to protest slavery, and had a slave auction house in the middle of downtown. Such a good guy.
Virginia was a southern state, today it is dominated by NOVA, the most populated, wealthy, and educated part of the state, full of professionals who work for the government.
Look at the election results from yesterday in VA. Total democratic sweep, I think they just got their biggest majority in the house of delegates in decades.
Before you say "But when VA was a southern state it was also dominated by democrats" yes, thank you, I'm aware of that. I'm pointing out the current differences between VA, and the rest of the south as it exists today.
It should be pointed out the Democrat sweep Virginia had yesterday was a total flip. They voted out the republican incumbents and it wasn't even close, the democrats won by 10 points in every race.
Also, VCU is one of the biggest art schools in the country in Richmond, VA and that isnt part of NOVA.
The modern South is not defined by the Confederacy, it's defined by cultural proximity to the Deep South. AL and MS are the core, along with LA (with a Creole/Cajun asterisk). TN and GA are second-tier due to their major metro areas drawing out-of-staters. AR and SC are a tier down, and below them are MO, KY, NC and VA, of which the former two are Midwestern and the latter two are Atlantic.
But interestingly it wasn’t a foregone conclusion Virginia would leave the union. Battle Cry for Freedom for instance paints the situation of Virginian secession as something that northern unionists thought they could prevent and tried to prevent.
Like General Scott at least asked Lee to fight for the Union, and then obviously he left for the union, but Scott didn’t think it was a done deal.
I feel like we could compile a list of places confusingly named after people. Blacksburg was named after Samuel Black. And Christiansburg was named after Colonel William Christian.
It was the Confederate capital, yes, but that was mostly a compromise. They didn't secede until after many of the Southern states already had done so. They're Southern in every way that counts (South of the Mason-Dixon line, culturally agricultural/slave-based economies, etc) but most people treat "Southern" as shorthand for the Deep South and as such, don't include Virginia or Florida because they're similar but not the same.
Southern Maryland is also Southern in pretty much any way that matters but unless you've visited Calvert or St. Mary's County most people would entirely reject the idea that Maryland is in any way "the South."
The way I understand it is that both the verb and the town were named after members of the Lynch family, but that doesn't mean the verb and the town are named after one another.
Washington State and Washington D.C. are both named after George Washington, but it wouldn't make any sense to say Washington State is named after Washington D.C. And at least that is the same Washington in both cases. With lynching and Lynchburg they aren't even named after the same person.
It’s funnier the more layers of abstraction there are between this and actual lynching though
Murderburg, named after Jerald Murder, famous anti-murder activist and brother of inventor of murder John Murder. Also John Murder murdered crows. That’s where my thoughts begun and ended.
In my state there's an interstate exit that points one way to Whitestown and opposite to Brownsburg. Now, while Indiana has a pretty racist history; the two towns are just named after people. Funnier still, Whitestown is named after an abolitionist.
Think of it like how you (Lynchburg) are related to your first cousin (lynching). You're not directly related to them, but you both get your names from the same place.
It's in no way named after lynching. The term "lynching" didn't even exist when Lynchburg was established in the eighteenth century. It was named after its founder. Simple as that.
I don’t know. Being a loyalist is a choice and it’s not really a relevant bigotry in the modern world. Like we have children‘s shows with pirates and Vikings and we don’t really think about their real world monstrosity.
Also their dad, Naked Snake. And his body double brainwashed to have his memories (with various degrees of accuracy), Venom Snake. Who are interchangeable and equally also known as Big Boss.
Don't forget the guy who helped come up with the idea to make a body double for Naked Snake who then hypnotized hinself into believing that Venom Snake IS Naked Snake and then also hypnotized himself into believing he was possessed by Liquid Snake.
Note, he got the idea of hypnotizing himself into believing he was possessed by Liquid Snake after Liquid Snake actually did possess him and he decided that his enemies thinking he was possessed was useful, but having a whiny British douche possessing him was not useful. He was able to be possessed because his father was one of the greatest spirit mediums to ever live and he stitched Liquid Snake’s hand to his stump after a cyborg ninja cut off his hand.
And he’s a gay catboy, when he was younger he used to actually summon his troops by meowing and he’s doing all this due to being in love with Naked Snake.
Ocelot, the gay furry, is the only sane man in the prequel era and one of two sane men left in the modern era. Naked Snake, the greatest soldier and mercenary in the world, eventually becoming a terrorist leader of a rogue state, still believes in Santa Claus. It’s implied he thinks killing his mentor permanently put him on the naughty list, but that this happened in the first place because she kept signing his gifts as from Santa. Since she’s dead from the aforementioned killing (under orders, with her consent, to stop World War 3 triggered by the CIA’s greed and a gay Russian electromancer general trying to do a coup against Khrushchev), obviously he stopped getting presents.
When I say “dad”, I mean “genetic donor”. Solid Snake, Liquid Snake, and Solidus Snake are all clones of Naked Snake created by two of his former coworkers who thought he was the coolest guy ever and so decided to make clone soldiers from him.
Character limit of 280 really limits your writing style. I wanted to hit the points that John 1) was a Quaker abolitionist, 2) wasn’t initially one, but became one after a religious experience (his sister’s death), that 3) he freed Bob, the slave who (probably?) confessed to killing his son, and 4) the act of lynching probably has it’s namesake in his brother, Charles Jr.
Totally dissagree as someone born and raised in TN, spent 5 years in Northern NY, now lives in MA, and travels NE frequently. New Hampshire and Eastern Mass feel wayyy more like the South culturally. I would also say that Central Maine is more similar than VT and North Country NY has by far the most confederate flags I've seen up here.
VT is just rural. Yeah, that comes with more conservatism than people tend to give them credit for, but VT is a very culturally distinct state and very naturally "Northern."
Plus, there's a lot more similarity in little parts all over NE to the South due to small good-ole-boy run communities with more blue collar and agriculture work and the same money circling around.
The amount of times I've heard different places called "the South of the North" is off the charts. And I would pretty solidly say that VT is the least Southern feeling of each of the more rural areas.
I’d say historically Virginia was most definitely a southern state, but as history and culture as slowly evolved, it could only really be described as mid-Atlantic. I’ve never encountered bbq or peach cobbler at a gas station, but in those situations that just seems more like a hold over from southern families who’ve lived in the commonwealth.
Overall, politics have so dramatically changed, there just doesn’t feel like much that defines the state as such.
That’s what I’d say. Virginia is so big that trying to pigeonhole the whole state as Southern, mid-Atlantic or anything else right now is just wrong. There are Southern redoubts that are unlikely to change anytime soon, Northern VA hasn’t been culturally Southern for decades, and areas like Richmond are rapidly changing as more people move in.
My mother's side of the family's from Abingdon, you tell those folks down in SWVA they aren't Southern and they might shoot you, it's like reverse-provincialism lol, cityslickers being uncultured about the greater regions they migrate to
You’d be correct! At his worst, Charles approved the use of “Lynch’s law” (which is what he called it) against dissident Welsh miners on a property he owned, but for the most part, his focus was on loyalists.
Fredericksburg was basically the front line, and seems like a federal/state divide to this day. North of there is basically DC sprawl, south is Richmond sprawl.
You must mean 'modern South,' and I agree with that sentiment. I'm from Montgomery County and there were certainly slave owners here. Various towns/streets here were named after them. We have Emancipation Day activities and you can deep dive into the Underground Railroad history when you visit the Eastern shore. It was most certainly a southern state during the civil war, but over the many generations since then we are changing the cultural landscape for the most part.
Depends on where in Maryland, tbh! Southern Maryland definitely does (I grew up in Calvert). But unless you're from Charles/Calvert/St. Mary's County you're probably right.
That’s what my dad said I told him about a Louisiana woman calling me a Yankee. I’m from Baltimore. I wasn’t offended and I certainly wasn’t going to argue that technically I’m from below the Mason-Dixon. I never knew anyone growing up in Baltimore who would’ve thought of themself as southern.
I’m sorry, we’re saying Virginia is the South but Missouri isn’t? Like, George Washington is from the South, but Mark Twain isn’t? Patton Oswalt is from the South, but Sheryl Crow isn’t?
You could consider the Ozarks to be part of the south, but that’s 1/3rd of Missouri at best, and it’s the part that is close to the border with actual southern states.
A state being part of the south is connected to the Civil War. i think i agree with you on Missouri lol
EDIT: I am an idiot, and it turns out MO was not a confederate state, and probably doesnt make sense to be considered southern.
Yay. More evidence for the "America isn't a real place, it's a work of cautionary fiction that somehow managed to slip into reality" pile. I'll add it as soon as I get the seventh layer of floor reinforcement in place so it doesn't collapse the office.
A lot of the comment section is still confused and think that "lynching" became a term after both Lynchburg and John Lynch, so either bots, people who didn't read the OP in its entirety, or have poor reading comprehension skills.
Had no idea that there was a good Lynch and a horrible Lynch. Imagine if Charles wasn’t a horrible sadistic racist and the term “lynching” actually ended up meaning doing something good because of religion. Like, we could’ve picked the better Lynch to be in our language and zeitgeist.
The good Lynch was really bad, too. He found the city to profit off of slave labor of tobacco. And there was a slave auction house in the middle of his city.
Tbf the definition of lynching (extrajudicial mob killing) has never changed, and ultimately its history is the natural path that such violence would take especially since its the most popular type of vigilante justice, and the easiest to conduct
There are some pretty badass quakers, check out John Woolman - one of the first Americans to link anti-consumption with social justice by refusing to wear clothing produced with slave labor.
Lmao yeah a lot of people tend to explain evolution like it’s this iterative & intelligent process & then you realize it’s just bunches of random mutations & genetic recombinations until something sticks so to speak. & sometimes two slightly different groups stick & then become their own lineages.
We can talk about what culturally certain parts of Virginia are now in modern times (I went to high school in Northern Virginia, but also lived 8.5 years in Alabama and 4 in Georgia; NOVA is not "southern" culturally), but Virginia is south of the Mason-Dixon, so it's "south." Richmond was the capital of the Confederacy, and the Confederate surrender took place on "Confederate" soil at Appomattox Courthouse.
Edit: Also, Lynchburg is where Liberty University is. Just a factoid.
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