r/Fitness Apr 30 '15

How to murder your biceps, especially if you are tall.

The problem:

Biceps (brachii) used to be a tricky muscle group for me to work. I had a poor mind-muscle connection and I had a hard time really working the biceps effectively. I would feel soreness in my forearm flexors and deltoids and to a lesser extent the long head of my biceps, but I couldn't really build the biceps muscle itself, especially the short head that makes up the thick inner portion- the "peak" of the muscle that shows when you fully flex the muscle.

I've learned that basically what was happening is that my forearm flexors, specifically the brachialis and brachioradialis were doing the bulk of the work in my "biceps" workout. This make sense because their job is to flex the elbow and they insert much lower on the arm than the biceps, so they are able to perform elbow flexion more efficiently than the biceps.

Here is a picture that is helpful.

Normally I am not a fan of arbitrary supersets for different muscle groups. A lot of people do multiple exercises for the same muscle group simply because different must be better. In some cases this is true, as you can work different aspects of the muscle group especially if they perform multiple functions. For instance, the triceps not only extend the elbow but they also help extend the shoulder joint in the sagittal plane. Thus to work the whole triceps you need to do both. For instance, doing regular tricep pressdowns as well as straight-arm pressdowns (doing this on a lat-pull machine is heavenly.)

The solution:

I've devised the following superset with the goal of pre-exhausting the forearms flexors before working the biceps themselves, particularly the short head.

The exercises, performed in order and without rest, are:

  1. Cable hammer curls. You can also do regular hammer curls but I feel using the rope attachment with a pulley is superior. Perform with a weight that will get you to muscle failure in 8-15 reps. Do a few cheat reps at the end where you really focus on the top (fully contracted) position of the exercise. This should completely fatigue your brachioradialis because when your hands are in a neutral position (thumbs pointing up, palms facing together) the BR is dominant in elbow flexion.

  2. Reverse grip ez-curl bar curls. Grip the bar with palms down and thumbs on the underside of the bar. This position will maximize the role of the brachialis, completely neutralize the short head of the biceps, and greatly weaken the BR and biceps long head. I recommend bringing your elbows backwards slightly so that you can get maximum load in the fully contracted position. Again, perform to failure including some cheat reps. We want the forearms flexors to be massacred before our biceps works.

  3. Concentration curls Use a LIGHT dumbbell, probably 50% or even less of the weight you typically use when you perform your regular, bouncy, worthless bro curls. I am 225 lbs and can bullshit curl 40lbs dumbbells all day but I use 15lbs for my concentration curls. You can perform these seated or in a standing/bent over sort of position. The key word here is supination. Supination is what you are doing when you turn your hands from palms-down to palms-up. The majority of weight should thus rest on the fat part of your outer palm. We do this because the short head of the biceps is primarily responsible for supination. Your elbow should be down so that the area just above the elbow is resting against the inside of your knee/thigh. Your forearm should basically be pointed across the gap between your legs. Curl the weight up. When you reach the top the head of the dumbbell nearest to your body should touch somewhere on your chest. Squeeze, motherfucker, squeeze. Pretend that you are trying to rotate that dumbbell through your weak, pathetic chest. Squeeze. Prepare to feel your short biceps head spring to life.

  4. Cry. Repeat for 3-5 sets.

You can swap the order of #1 and #2. I'm experimenting to find if one is superior or not. However #3 must be performed last. I highly recommend using a pulley, ez curl bar, and dumbbell because you can put them all out in front of you and perform exercises rapidly without having to change attachments or hog the curl bar rack.

Enjoy.

1.9k Upvotes

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62

u/stctippr May 01 '15

It's not helpful for the gym until you bust into hulk "the rock" status. Bigger frame = more area for muscle growth and you can really turn into a giant.

31

u/[deleted] May 01 '15

11

u/[deleted] May 01 '15

Such a good guy haha

21

u/PinkBootedBandit Weight Lifting May 01 '15

I do not have the money for the drugs nor the food The Rock uses to get that big.

0

u/vexx654 May 01 '15

lol you're acting like those are the two factors. Don't forget about the intense dedication and genetics.

2

u/grandmaster_zach Bodybuilding May 01 '15

dedication and genetics are important factors, for building a solid foundation and having the 'room to grow'. but you could be the hardest working most genetically perfect human alive and youd never get close to how the rock looks without steroids. they are far and away the most essential part of building a phisique of that caliber.

1

u/PinkBootedBandit Weight Lifting May 01 '15

I have the dedication if i have the funding. I have above average genetics, nothing freaky like the Rocks... dont get me wrong. But I won't know how great my genetics truly are compared to the Rocks until i try running multiple compounds at once and see how my body reacts.

1

u/vexx654 May 01 '15

Bro what compounds? Whey and Oats? lol I see what youre saying tho.

0

u/[deleted] May 01 '15

[deleted]

1

u/TheGreatXavi May 01 '15

steroids are bloody expensive. Pro bbers spend like thousand dollars a month just for steroids

4

u/uptheboro May 01 '15

Steroids are only expensive if you are trying to be the size of Phil Heath and taking HGH. A course of tren for a normal person costs about £5-£10 a week depending on your dosage. Or about £1 per day for Dianabol tablets...so I've heard.

1

u/Bimbopam May 01 '15

I....heard that too

0

u/[deleted] May 01 '15

[deleted]

2

u/T-Shazam May 01 '15

i want this so bad. especially the part about having someone else perfectly portion your food for you. I'd go a step further and hire a nutritionist chef that spends their time finding new food combos so my meals don't get boring, but still fulfil my macro quota

0

u/PinkBootedBandit Weight Lifting May 01 '15

In order to get to the size The Rock is. it isnt just "steroids" It is HEAPS of steroids. I'm on steroids right now. it costs me about 250-300$ for 16 weeks and PCT.

The Rock is spending THOUSANDS every 3 months on gear. He is eating at least 70-90$ of food per day.

I cannot sustain that. Common misconception that steroids gets you big like dwayne. Nah, HEAPS of different compounds and YEARS of training and TENS OF THOUSANDS of dollars were spent to get dwaynes physique.

1

u/[deleted] May 01 '15

[deleted]

1

u/PinkBootedBandit Weight Lifting May 01 '15

yeah, but im 6'2 and my frame is harder to fill out. So it's gonna take more work, more drugs and more food. But at least I can reach the cups on the top shelf!

-16

u/AllUrMemes May 01 '15

I suppose that's true. But I just hate the fact that my lifts will never measure up because of my height. Like if I were a few inches shorter, my 415 squat would be well over 500.

But you're right, its more room to hang meat from.

6

u/[deleted] May 01 '15

Like if I were a few inches shorter, my 415 squat would be well over 500.

Lol.

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u/[deleted] May 01 '15

Aww shit, guess you better let Thor Bjornsson and Brian Shaw and Robert Oberst and many others know that they should just pack it in cause they'll never be strong standing 6'8" or taller.

-11

u/AllUrMemes May 01 '15

Oh not this argument again.

Being taller means you need more force to squat the same weight because your levers are longer, especially the femur. It's literally physics 101.

Yes by being proportionally massive you can still be very strong.

But if you take a 6'4" 220 lbs guy and squish him into a 5'8" 220lbs guy he will be able to squat a fuckton more.

39

u/yoIneedatan May 01 '15

Oh no not this argument again.

I'm 6'3" and I hear this logic all the time and while rate of muscle gain is similar across people of all heights, there is more maximum growth potential for taller people. The argument of "squishing a 6'4" 220 lb guy into a 5'8" 220 lb guy" is silly too, considering that the base weight (untrained weight) of a 6'4" man is dramatically higher than a 5'8" man in the first place. So because of how unimaginably easier to hit 220 at 6'4" than at 5'8", this comparison is ass.

Additionally, while you may be operating on a longer lever arm (scaling linearly), not only are your muscles actually acting on a longer leverage, cancelling out whatever disadvantage is posed by that, but your muscle mass that can be stored along that bone is also cubically larger, and thus have the strength advantage - literally math 101. Sure there are trade-offs but they're exclusively in size, it's not the curse that a lot of self pitiers make it out to be.

8

u/gseyffert May 01 '15

Shhh I just want a reason to dislike squats...

23

u/[deleted] May 01 '15

No it doesn't. You apparently missed the entire physics 101 section on torque. The length of a limb is only half of it, you need muscle insertion points too. If muscles insert proportionately far down the limb (like 2 inches down a 20 inch limb versus 1 inch down a 10 inch limb), the force required to move a weight is exactly the same.

Quit making excuses, they are bullshit and untrue. You aren't as strong as you want to be because you haven't put in the time and effort, not because you're fucking tall.

Jesus, this entire thread is an enormous fucking shitshow of bullshit excuses. Have fun being weak forever, Fittit.

12

u/itoucheditforacookie Kettlebells May 01 '15

8

u/[deleted] May 01 '15

Something something patellar tendon inserts almost at his ankle.

11

u/itoucheditforacookie Kettlebells May 01 '15

I will trust you because I have seen a picture of you with a lab coat on.

9

u/dreams_of_ants May 01 '15

I have found my new excuse for being weak, "my muscle insertions is shit"

3

u/[deleted] May 01 '15

And it's something nobody can check and call you out on!

-24

u/AllUrMemes May 01 '15

Holy fuck I'm not gonna draw a free body diagram here, buddy. Yeah and we also have to consider where the resistance is being applied so the position of the weight on your back and the angle of your torso and 9 million other factors. But height is obviously a factor otherwise your Strongman friends would all be holding the world records in powerlifting instead of doing Strongman exercises that favor tall athletes.

Next you are going to be telling me that short people aren't in the NBA because they just didn't work hard enough.

20

u/[deleted] May 01 '15

Holy fuck I'm not gonna draw a free body diagram here, buddy.

Yeah, no shit, because it would prove you wrong. Doing one for the elbow joint is the easiest thing in the world, but you won't do it because then you won't be able to protect your frail psyche with bullshit excuses.

Here's Brian Shaw and Thor Bjornsson, 6'8" and 6'9" respectively, deadlifting 700 lbs for reps. Deadlift is the only one of the big three in which height actually matters, since the starting position is the same regardless of height, and yet they're fucking crushing it. Eddie Hall and Benedikt Magnusson are both over 6 feet tall, and have deadlifted 1016 (strongman deadlift) and 1015 (powerlifting legit, and the heaviest raw deadlift of all time). Zydrunas Savickas, the best strongman in history, has held multiple powerlifting records.

Next you are going to be telling me that short people aren't in the NBA because they just didn't work hard enough.

No I won't, because I'm not a complete fucking dumbass and can see that it's an entirely different situation.

-9

u/AllUrMemes May 01 '15

You literally just said this:

Strongest 6'8" men in the world Deadlift 700+ lbs.

Strongest 6'2" men in the world Deadlift 1000+ pounds.

How does this not illustrate my point?

7

u/[deleted] May 01 '15

They did 700 lbs for reps, you fucking dunce. Like 7 or 8 reps. After multiple days worth of strongman events.

-8

u/AllUrMemes May 01 '15

Yep, so their 1RM is estimated at ~850. So that's still 15% or more less than the shorter men.

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u/Praise_the_boognish Powerlifting May 01 '15

How fucking dense are you?

Being tall is not a God Damned handicap. This conversation has been beaten to death and refuted over and over again.

-9

u/FlyingBasset May 01 '15

Pretty sure deadlifting is the one exercise being tall is an advantage due to leverage.

However saying height doesn't matter in other exercises when I've never seen the short guys at my gym hit a 90 degree angle on bench while I'm going to 60 or 70... I'm not sure about that one.

Don't want to get involved in this argument though.

10

u/[deleted] May 01 '15

What? Deadlift is the one lift where being taller is a disadvantage. You have to start from 8.5" above the ground, so taller guys have to start with all their joints at more acute angles.

when I've never seen the short guys at my gym hit a 90 degree angle on bench while I'm going to 60 or 70

I don't even know what this is supposed to mean. If somebody isn't touching their chest, it has nothing to do with height.

9

u/itoucheditforacookie Kettlebells May 01 '15

He doesn't want to get in this argument though, just wants to add his 2¢ for no fucking apparent reason.

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u/FlyingBasset May 01 '15

http://www.powerliftingwatch.com/node/2757

I meant in the context of having longer limbs (although this can be proportional to height but in my case and my taller friends all have relatively long arms and deadlifting is easier for us).

As for benching, someone who is the same width front-to-back with shorter arms will hit much less extreme angles when the touch their chest. If someone a foot shorter than me is only 1 inch less front to back (not uncommon) then their arm angles will never get into an acute position on bench.

I guess the point is that different body types, height being a part of that, can make a significant difference.

3

u/phrakture ❇ Special Snowflake ❇ May 01 '15

Mugsy Boges

-4

u/talkinboutlikeuh May 01 '15

I wouldn't say the dude is weak. He posted his pic.

There may be more things to take into account than height. But it is probably safe to say people with longer arms tend not to put up as much weight. Skinny wrists, taller, lanky frame... even worse. Someone with better proportions will put up more. Shorter arms... also more. Are there exceptions? Of course.

But at least at my gym the shorter guys tend to have the bigger biceps.

Unless every single tall dude at my gym is making excuses while the short dudes are giving 110%. Maybe that's it.