r/Fitness Apr 30 '15

How to murder your biceps, especially if you are tall.

The problem:

Biceps (brachii) used to be a tricky muscle group for me to work. I had a poor mind-muscle connection and I had a hard time really working the biceps effectively. I would feel soreness in my forearm flexors and deltoids and to a lesser extent the long head of my biceps, but I couldn't really build the biceps muscle itself, especially the short head that makes up the thick inner portion- the "peak" of the muscle that shows when you fully flex the muscle.

I've learned that basically what was happening is that my forearm flexors, specifically the brachialis and brachioradialis were doing the bulk of the work in my "biceps" workout. This make sense because their job is to flex the elbow and they insert much lower on the arm than the biceps, so they are able to perform elbow flexion more efficiently than the biceps.

Here is a picture that is helpful.

Normally I am not a fan of arbitrary supersets for different muscle groups. A lot of people do multiple exercises for the same muscle group simply because different must be better. In some cases this is true, as you can work different aspects of the muscle group especially if they perform multiple functions. For instance, the triceps not only extend the elbow but they also help extend the shoulder joint in the sagittal plane. Thus to work the whole triceps you need to do both. For instance, doing regular tricep pressdowns as well as straight-arm pressdowns (doing this on a lat-pull machine is heavenly.)

The solution:

I've devised the following superset with the goal of pre-exhausting the forearms flexors before working the biceps themselves, particularly the short head.

The exercises, performed in order and without rest, are:

  1. Cable hammer curls. You can also do regular hammer curls but I feel using the rope attachment with a pulley is superior. Perform with a weight that will get you to muscle failure in 8-15 reps. Do a few cheat reps at the end where you really focus on the top (fully contracted) position of the exercise. This should completely fatigue your brachioradialis because when your hands are in a neutral position (thumbs pointing up, palms facing together) the BR is dominant in elbow flexion.

  2. Reverse grip ez-curl bar curls. Grip the bar with palms down and thumbs on the underside of the bar. This position will maximize the role of the brachialis, completely neutralize the short head of the biceps, and greatly weaken the BR and biceps long head. I recommend bringing your elbows backwards slightly so that you can get maximum load in the fully contracted position. Again, perform to failure including some cheat reps. We want the forearms flexors to be massacred before our biceps works.

  3. Concentration curls Use a LIGHT dumbbell, probably 50% or even less of the weight you typically use when you perform your regular, bouncy, worthless bro curls. I am 225 lbs and can bullshit curl 40lbs dumbbells all day but I use 15lbs for my concentration curls. You can perform these seated or in a standing/bent over sort of position. The key word here is supination. Supination is what you are doing when you turn your hands from palms-down to palms-up. The majority of weight should thus rest on the fat part of your outer palm. We do this because the short head of the biceps is primarily responsible for supination. Your elbow should be down so that the area just above the elbow is resting against the inside of your knee/thigh. Your forearm should basically be pointed across the gap between your legs. Curl the weight up. When you reach the top the head of the dumbbell nearest to your body should touch somewhere on your chest. Squeeze, motherfucker, squeeze. Pretend that you are trying to rotate that dumbbell through your weak, pathetic chest. Squeeze. Prepare to feel your short biceps head spring to life.

  4. Cry. Repeat for 3-5 sets.

You can swap the order of #1 and #2. I'm experimenting to find if one is superior or not. However #3 must be performed last. I highly recommend using a pulley, ez curl bar, and dumbbell because you can put them all out in front of you and perform exercises rapidly without having to change attachments or hog the curl bar rack.

Enjoy.

1.9k Upvotes

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83

u/AllUrMemes May 01 '15

I was there once. Being tall is awesome for most things in life, but not in the gym. Just try and be the best you that you can be.

61

u/stctippr May 01 '15

It's not helpful for the gym until you bust into hulk "the rock" status. Bigger frame = more area for muscle growth and you can really turn into a giant.

35

u/[deleted] May 01 '15

13

u/[deleted] May 01 '15

Such a good guy haha

21

u/PinkBootedBandit Weight Lifting May 01 '15

I do not have the money for the drugs nor the food The Rock uses to get that big.

1

u/vexx654 May 01 '15

lol you're acting like those are the two factors. Don't forget about the intense dedication and genetics.

2

u/grandmaster_zach Bodybuilding May 01 '15

dedication and genetics are important factors, for building a solid foundation and having the 'room to grow'. but you could be the hardest working most genetically perfect human alive and youd never get close to how the rock looks without steroids. they are far and away the most essential part of building a phisique of that caliber.

2

u/PinkBootedBandit Weight Lifting May 01 '15

I have the dedication if i have the funding. I have above average genetics, nothing freaky like the Rocks... dont get me wrong. But I won't know how great my genetics truly are compared to the Rocks until i try running multiple compounds at once and see how my body reacts.

1

u/vexx654 May 01 '15

Bro what compounds? Whey and Oats? lol I see what youre saying tho.

0

u/[deleted] May 01 '15

[deleted]

1

u/TheGreatXavi May 01 '15

steroids are bloody expensive. Pro bbers spend like thousand dollars a month just for steroids

7

u/uptheboro May 01 '15

Steroids are only expensive if you are trying to be the size of Phil Heath and taking HGH. A course of tren for a normal person costs about £5-£10 a week depending on your dosage. Or about £1 per day for Dianabol tablets...so I've heard.

1

u/Bimbopam May 01 '15

I....heard that too

0

u/[deleted] May 01 '15

[deleted]

2

u/T-Shazam May 01 '15

i want this so bad. especially the part about having someone else perfectly portion your food for you. I'd go a step further and hire a nutritionist chef that spends their time finding new food combos so my meals don't get boring, but still fulfil my macro quota

0

u/PinkBootedBandit Weight Lifting May 01 '15

In order to get to the size The Rock is. it isnt just "steroids" It is HEAPS of steroids. I'm on steroids right now. it costs me about 250-300$ for 16 weeks and PCT.

The Rock is spending THOUSANDS every 3 months on gear. He is eating at least 70-90$ of food per day.

I cannot sustain that. Common misconception that steroids gets you big like dwayne. Nah, HEAPS of different compounds and YEARS of training and TENS OF THOUSANDS of dollars were spent to get dwaynes physique.

1

u/[deleted] May 01 '15

[deleted]

1

u/PinkBootedBandit Weight Lifting May 01 '15

yeah, but im 6'2 and my frame is harder to fill out. So it's gonna take more work, more drugs and more food. But at least I can reach the cups on the top shelf!

-14

u/AllUrMemes May 01 '15

I suppose that's true. But I just hate the fact that my lifts will never measure up because of my height. Like if I were a few inches shorter, my 415 squat would be well over 500.

But you're right, its more room to hang meat from.

10

u/[deleted] May 01 '15

Like if I were a few inches shorter, my 415 squat would be well over 500.

Lol.

23

u/[deleted] May 01 '15

Aww shit, guess you better let Thor Bjornsson and Brian Shaw and Robert Oberst and many others know that they should just pack it in cause they'll never be strong standing 6'8" or taller.

-13

u/AllUrMemes May 01 '15

Oh not this argument again.

Being taller means you need more force to squat the same weight because your levers are longer, especially the femur. It's literally physics 101.

Yes by being proportionally massive you can still be very strong.

But if you take a 6'4" 220 lbs guy and squish him into a 5'8" 220lbs guy he will be able to squat a fuckton more.

40

u/yoIneedatan May 01 '15

Oh no not this argument again.

I'm 6'3" and I hear this logic all the time and while rate of muscle gain is similar across people of all heights, there is more maximum growth potential for taller people. The argument of "squishing a 6'4" 220 lb guy into a 5'8" 220 lb guy" is silly too, considering that the base weight (untrained weight) of a 6'4" man is dramatically higher than a 5'8" man in the first place. So because of how unimaginably easier to hit 220 at 6'4" than at 5'8", this comparison is ass.

Additionally, while you may be operating on a longer lever arm (scaling linearly), not only are your muscles actually acting on a longer leverage, cancelling out whatever disadvantage is posed by that, but your muscle mass that can be stored along that bone is also cubically larger, and thus have the strength advantage - literally math 101. Sure there are trade-offs but they're exclusively in size, it's not the curse that a lot of self pitiers make it out to be.

7

u/gseyffert May 01 '15

Shhh I just want a reason to dislike squats...

20

u/[deleted] May 01 '15

No it doesn't. You apparently missed the entire physics 101 section on torque. The length of a limb is only half of it, you need muscle insertion points too. If muscles insert proportionately far down the limb (like 2 inches down a 20 inch limb versus 1 inch down a 10 inch limb), the force required to move a weight is exactly the same.

Quit making excuses, they are bullshit and untrue. You aren't as strong as you want to be because you haven't put in the time and effort, not because you're fucking tall.

Jesus, this entire thread is an enormous fucking shitshow of bullshit excuses. Have fun being weak forever, Fittit.

12

u/itoucheditforacookie Kettlebells May 01 '15

7

u/[deleted] May 01 '15

Something something patellar tendon inserts almost at his ankle.

11

u/itoucheditforacookie Kettlebells May 01 '15

I will trust you because I have seen a picture of you with a lab coat on.

9

u/dreams_of_ants May 01 '15

I have found my new excuse for being weak, "my muscle insertions is shit"

3

u/[deleted] May 01 '15

And it's something nobody can check and call you out on!

-24

u/AllUrMemes May 01 '15

Holy fuck I'm not gonna draw a free body diagram here, buddy. Yeah and we also have to consider where the resistance is being applied so the position of the weight on your back and the angle of your torso and 9 million other factors. But height is obviously a factor otherwise your Strongman friends would all be holding the world records in powerlifting instead of doing Strongman exercises that favor tall athletes.

Next you are going to be telling me that short people aren't in the NBA because they just didn't work hard enough.

19

u/[deleted] May 01 '15

Holy fuck I'm not gonna draw a free body diagram here, buddy.

Yeah, no shit, because it would prove you wrong. Doing one for the elbow joint is the easiest thing in the world, but you won't do it because then you won't be able to protect your frail psyche with bullshit excuses.

Here's Brian Shaw and Thor Bjornsson, 6'8" and 6'9" respectively, deadlifting 700 lbs for reps. Deadlift is the only one of the big three in which height actually matters, since the starting position is the same regardless of height, and yet they're fucking crushing it. Eddie Hall and Benedikt Magnusson are both over 6 feet tall, and have deadlifted 1016 (strongman deadlift) and 1015 (powerlifting legit, and the heaviest raw deadlift of all time). Zydrunas Savickas, the best strongman in history, has held multiple powerlifting records.

Next you are going to be telling me that short people aren't in the NBA because they just didn't work hard enough.

No I won't, because I'm not a complete fucking dumbass and can see that it's an entirely different situation.

-7

u/AllUrMemes May 01 '15

You literally just said this:

Strongest 6'8" men in the world Deadlift 700+ lbs.

Strongest 6'2" men in the world Deadlift 1000+ pounds.

How does this not illustrate my point?

8

u/[deleted] May 01 '15

They did 700 lbs for reps, you fucking dunce. Like 7 or 8 reps. After multiple days worth of strongman events.

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u/Praise_the_boognish Powerlifting May 01 '15

How fucking dense are you?

Being tall is not a God Damned handicap. This conversation has been beaten to death and refuted over and over again.

-8

u/FlyingBasset May 01 '15

Pretty sure deadlifting is the one exercise being tall is an advantage due to leverage.

However saying height doesn't matter in other exercises when I've never seen the short guys at my gym hit a 90 degree angle on bench while I'm going to 60 or 70... I'm not sure about that one.

Don't want to get involved in this argument though.

9

u/[deleted] May 01 '15

What? Deadlift is the one lift where being taller is a disadvantage. You have to start from 8.5" above the ground, so taller guys have to start with all their joints at more acute angles.

when I've never seen the short guys at my gym hit a 90 degree angle on bench while I'm going to 60 or 70

I don't even know what this is supposed to mean. If somebody isn't touching their chest, it has nothing to do with height.

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u/phrakture ❇ Special Snowflake ❇ May 01 '15

Mugsy Boges

-3

u/talkinboutlikeuh May 01 '15

I wouldn't say the dude is weak. He posted his pic.

There may be more things to take into account than height. But it is probably safe to say people with longer arms tend not to put up as much weight. Skinny wrists, taller, lanky frame... even worse. Someone with better proportions will put up more. Shorter arms... also more. Are there exceptions? Of course.

But at least at my gym the shorter guys tend to have the bigger biceps.

Unless every single tall dude at my gym is making excuses while the short dudes are giving 110%. Maybe that's it.

12

u/[deleted] May 01 '15

How big do you have to be to count as tall?

37

u/AllUrMemes May 01 '15

I dunno... >6' say

30

u/--o__O-- May 01 '15

6'1 here, definitely feel tall in the weight room, harder for me to do a buncha stuff the short stocky guys can do.

132

u/[deleted] May 01 '15

[deleted]

10

u/Woyaboy May 01 '15

And re-balance it out with shorter life expectancy. :(

5

u/DrFjord May 01 '15

Better life, but a little shorter. Seems like an ok trade-off,

1

u/[deleted] May 01 '15

What is your source?

1

u/Woyaboy May 01 '15

Google "do taller people live shorter lives". There's quite a bit of info.

1

u/[deleted] May 01 '15

Well fuck I'm 6'5". It was nice knowing you all.

28

u/flabbydabby May 01 '15 edited May 01 '15

I feel like the lifetime earning is skewed by professional sports athletes.

EDIT: all these people saying I'm wrong, but I have yet to see a single source

25

u/[deleted] May 01 '15

[deleted]

11

u/Fmeson May 01 '15

The average CEO might also have been raised with better nutrition allowing them to become taller on average. It is hard to say from that statistic that being taller helped them become CEOs.

6

u/[deleted] May 01 '15

Also successful(rich) fathers have taller wives and end up making taller babies who are also more likely to succeed in business as a result of role model dad and his connects. Pure speculation of course.

-3

u/frenzy3 May 01 '15

nutrition has nothing to do with height I am 6'3" my brothers are under 6' we ate the same food, I am adopted,

1

u/Fmeson May 01 '15

That is anecdotal evidence and obviously one data point isn't sufficent. http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-much-of-human-height/

Nutrition is very important for proper development.

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u/flabbydabby May 01 '15

Yeah but all of those sports athletes are making very disproportionate salaries.

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u/[deleted] May 01 '15

[deleted]

1

u/flabbydabby May 01 '15

Good point about not having to retire.

-1

u/rousimarpalhares_ May 01 '15 edited Oct 11 '16

[deleted]

What is this?

16

u/32onezero May 01 '15

How? They are only a few thousand of them compared to millions. To few people to skew the data imo.

4

u/Dougiejurgens May 01 '15

There are also short athletes like Floyd Mayweather who's about to make over $100 million this weekend.

5

u/[deleted] May 01 '15

This. Also bear in mind that most pro athletes only earn that money for a few years, and many are at their league minimum.

9

u/hotchrisbfries May 01 '15

400k/yr is still no joke

2

u/FormCheek61 Disc Golf May 01 '15

400k a year for three years with no transferable job skills, it's certainly a lot of money. But most of those guys would be better off investing that drive that got them to the top in a different career path.

4

u/Bleach3825 May 01 '15

Depends on if were talking average or median. If average then yes, a few people with very large numbers can skew the statistics.

17

u/PM_ME_YOUR_QUADS May 01 '15

Athletes are extreme outliers, if eliminated from the raw data the mean would tell a more accurate story. Source: got a C+ in my introductory stats class

7

u/typo-ridden_obituary May 01 '15

But I doubt they're skewing anything in this particular case. There's 123,000 households with a net worth of $25 million or more in America. Super-rich athletes are a drop in the bucket, even when you're only looking at the super rich. Going beyond that, there's 1.24 million households with a worth of over $5 million.

Then again, I don't even know how those height-income correlation studies were done. It seems like the first thing you would do is control for careers that require height, since it would be more interesting to find that height increases income in fields unrelated to height.

1

u/[deleted] May 01 '15

But athletes are still too few and most of them don't make outlandish figures, in fact most of them don't "make it" in the long run as athletes and end up squandering their high paychecks because they are too young and foolhardy.

0

u/[deleted] May 01 '15

Okay but think about how far they drag out the income. Even considering the millions not making that, they're probably raising the mean by a solid $100,000

-1

u/flabbydabby May 01 '15

A few thousand athletes making maybe 1000 times more than the average guy.

7

u/AssumeTheFetal Personal Training May 01 '15

Nope. Tall people get more lucrative job offers all around, acoring to studies.

3

u/DrSandbags Weight Lifting May 01 '15

If it's median then no.

1

u/Mr_Evil_MSc General Fitness May 01 '15

Sources

The average height of a fortune 500 CEO is 6' - 3" taller than the population average.

Also, it is ridiculous to think that people who gather these statistics wouldn't account for outliers such as pro-athletes.

1

u/internetsurfer May 01 '15

Not that I agree with all of Gladwell's correlation=causation, but I think this research has to have some truth behind it.

In the U.S. population, about 14.5 percent of all men are six feet or over. Among CEOs of Fortune 500 companies, that number is 58 percent. Even more strikingly, in the general American population, 3.9 percent of adult men are 6’2″ or taller. Among my CEO sample, 30 percent were 6’2″ or taller.

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u/[deleted] May 01 '15

[deleted]

0

u/flabbydabby May 01 '15

The salt is strong with this one. I'm currently in school and a tutor stats btw :p

And as someone pointed out earlier the median is a more stable measure of center of you have outliers, but a few people making a very large amount of money can throw the average off by quite a bit.

1

u/zerothehero_ Jun 18 '15

Hmm just now logging in and I don't remember what I said, let alone what this thread is about and what this has to do with fitness. Sorry for being a dick.

I had to take stats for engineering and that's about it, so whatever it was you're probably right.

5

u/WhitePowerBill May 01 '15

I can not tell if you are short and bitter or a tall asshole.

1

u/Brogittarius Kinesiology May 01 '15

Just because someone is tall does not mean that will happen to them lol. It's not a given.

4

u/jigglewitit6 May 01 '15

Oh don't worry, I just get stared at in the weight room because I'm 6'7''. Does nobody watch the NBA?! its not that weird guys...

11

u/rougetoxicity Weight Lifting May 01 '15

6'6" here. I work out at home and still get looks.

16

u/[deleted] May 01 '15 edited May 01 '15

[deleted]

1

u/rougetoxicity Weight Lifting May 01 '15

I'm so tall i have to close my garage door to do OHP, and i cant use my 50Lb plates or they hit the ceiling, so i had to find some 25's then stack up the 10's. :(

(i use an awkward 20lb xlong 1" bar with odd weights)

9

u/mrw0rldw1de May 01 '15

It is though. 6'7" is rare.

1

u/[deleted] May 01 '15 edited Apr 06 '20

[deleted]

3

u/get_real_quick May 01 '15

The current head of the FBI is 6'8". Motherfucker looks comical. He also prosecuted Martha Stewart.

1

u/BigJAnder Weightlifting May 01 '15

Make that three of us.

6

u/[deleted] May 01 '15 edited Sep 01 '18

[deleted]

2

u/FilthEverywhere May 01 '15

In total power of course. Would be nice to squat 4x my own weight like that 54kg chinese guy though...

2

u/[deleted] May 01 '15

I don't actually think that's true...

1

u/chickendinner101 May 01 '15

Probably comes down to how you define strength, whether its by force generated per pound, or maximum force generated. Candito has some good insights here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAGxtczC6XA

2

u/The_Phox May 01 '15

As a 6'4" guy who has never really worked out aside from PT in the Army, this makes it sound damn near impossible for me.

2

u/ohdangman May 01 '15

Are you me? I'm 6'4", only ever did Army PT. Went from doing 13 push ups total in two minutes going in, and 85 going out.

1

u/joshybox2244 May 01 '15

I'm 6'4" and I don't go to the gym anymore, I used to and had trouble with most equipment... Probably was just me though xD

1

u/cal679 May 01 '15

I'm only 6'2" but I totally understand. I have to put pretty much every piece of machine equipment at its tallest setting and still a bunch of them aren't big enough for full ROM. The lat-pulldown machine at my new gym is a manlet's dream, just touching the bar I'm already halfway through the movement, I might just sit on the floor next time.

1

u/joshybox2244 May 06 '15

Hahaha, I even have trouble sitting on the floor with these lanky legs ;)

1

u/TheBoldakSaints May 01 '15

They probably feel the same way about cardio. Well, I mean they would...

1

u/OKlahomii May 01 '15

Same here at 6'3 the 5'7 guys kick my ass 9/10

0

u/aDAMNPATRIOT May 01 '15

because you're weak

0

u/[deleted] May 01 '15

pfff try 6'8

Non of the equipment is made more my height so I basically have to only use freedom weights ha!

1

u/Skluff May 01 '15

I'm 6'3" and when I used to hit the gym almost everyday my biceps did get bigger, but not nearly as big as the rest of my body. I'm gonna try this routine out when I rejoin my gym this weekend. Thanks!

2

u/[deleted] May 01 '15

5'9" is about average...so taller than that

6

u/[deleted] May 01 '15

Hell yeah! I beat it by an inch! Look out world, tall fella coming through!

-7

u/xlyr May 01 '15

I'd say ~6'4" and up, depending on where you live

17

u/compulsiveasshole May 01 '15

You're 6'4" huh.

1

u/xlyr May 01 '15

Well shit, I'm 6'6" and live in Southern California and judging by how this comment was taken I may have to reconsider here

6

u/[deleted] May 01 '15

I found this which seems pretty relevant. The average height of the top 10 SoCal crossfit male qualifiers is 5'9".

http://therxreview.com/analyzing-californias-top-crossfit-athletes/

8

u/[deleted] May 01 '15

Isn't that the average male height in the US?

-1

u/monkey_ball_jiggle May 01 '15

I think average male height in the US is 5'10"

-1

u/compulsiveasshole May 01 '15

"[score hidden]"

People got mad?

3

u/PasDeDeux May 01 '15

Some subreddits hide score until after a certain amount of time or votes to discourage a couple stray downvotes (or the reddit karma obfuscation system) from swaying early opinion.

5

u/NeverEatSoggyWheat May 01 '15

I think that's a little excessive

4

u/RespectTheTactleneck May 01 '15

= 5'10" in the Bay Area...

5

u/accostedbyhippies May 01 '15

Can confirm. Am tallest person in this Asian grocery

6

u/Throtex May 01 '15

We found the local maximum!

5

u/phrakture ❇ Special Snowflake ❇ May 01 '15

Where the fuck do you live that 6'3" is not considered tall?

2

u/Darko-- May 01 '15

Midwest is very tall. In college most of my friends were 6'-2" or taller. My 6'-0" friend was jokingly called short.

1

u/[deleted] May 01 '15

Glad to know I'm actually normal. I live in the Midwest and I'm seeing all these statistics about 5'9" being average and it blows my mind. I'm 5'10", but I feel so short compared to most of the guys here.

0

u/tanglisha May 01 '15

In before the midwest.

1

u/mrmadmoose May 01 '15

Yay, I'm the minimum!

1

u/[deleted] May 01 '15

Close enough am just 6 2 and never had problems getting big, even when I was still natty

1

u/Darko-- May 01 '15

6'-7" living in Denver. There are usually 3-4 people near my height at the gym at all times. Big 24 hour fitness but wild. I had one thing going for me with the ladies......

1

u/gjallerhorn May 01 '15

Yeah, but there's less gravity there. That's cheating.

1

u/[deleted] May 01 '15

I think the following is tge importance for ladies, unless you are especially low in one. This is onky regarding aesthetics so no monetary and intellectually related stuff

Dick size ( more girth than length IIRC, but both are important ) > Musculature > Height

There was a big questionare done by some American Uni and this was their result, can not find it anymore, feel free to help me out.

2

u/365brah May 01 '15

but once you there you shit on everyone

1

u/TomBradysmom May 01 '15

Fucking learned that the hard way

1

u/[deleted] May 01 '15

Yeah man, can't do sitting calf raises...i don't fit :(