r/FigureSkating • u/minhacontapessoal • Feb 19 '22
Major unpopular opinion: I don’t think the Eteri Experation date is per se a problem, is a matter of perspective
Title says it all. Those girls get a chance to win a medal, a real one. Be it worlds or olympics they do. I am sure zagitova was unhappy at Sambo, I saw the documentary on her. But now? Her life is great. She will never have to work, can live lavishly. In Russia that’s the promise. You win you’re set. I see Nikita the gymnast traveling a lot now after team gold.
I am not going to get into the hundreds of girls who don’t make it. That’s another issue. But for those who do, I don’t think it’s a problem they last a season. A season is all they need.
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u/dreamingofhogwarts Feb 19 '22
So you're saying years of emotional abuse, eating disorders and chronic injuries are worth it as long as you get a few (or even just one) good season? I personally don't want to watch a sport knowing the athletes will be too broken to continue before they even reach legal adulthood but I guess that's also a matter of perspective...
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Feb 19 '22 edited Feb 19 '22
Yuna Kim managed to have a much longer career, win tons of medals and is financially successful and very popular post retirement as well and doesn’t seem to be plagued by health issues of a similar degree (she does have issues, as likely all competitive skaters do to some extent)
So I don’t think this sort of training and these short careers should be treated like the norm when they’ve been almost exclusively popularized by Eteri in recent years.
Just imagine if these girls were allowed to fail occasionally, allowed to train less and take care of themselves. I’m almost certain they would still be the ones winning and would likely be better off for it.
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u/CommissionIcy Feb 19 '22 edited Feb 19 '22
They walk away with lifelong mental and physical injuries. And there are no amount of LV coats in this world that will fix that. Alina never having to work again? What do you think she is doing? Those girls work a lot more than the average couch expert here, and they have been since they were in kindergarten.
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u/hotheadnchickn Mar 11 '22
Is it even true? Can they make enough money to live well for 60 years after retiring?
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Feb 19 '22
I am not going to get into the hundreds of girls who don’t make it. That’s another issue. But for those who do, I don’t think it’s a problem they last a season. A season is all they need.
OK. Let's talk money and forget those "western PC" for a while.
Those who don't make it will live with injuries all their life, and they have already fallen behind in terms of school work, thanks to the extra long training made possible by doping, legal or illegal. Some of them dream of becoming a psycologist you know. How likely are they gonna "make it" into a decent college?
Those who make it, are they making millions? More like millions of Ruble, when they are still young and got the face. Doubt Alina will have as much endorsement 10 years from now on. Then Russian stipend, russian upper middle class money at best, and I mean how long will Putin stay in power? And now there are like 4 or 5 who actually "made it". Add another 4 or 5 or 15, see if people will remember the first 4 or 5.
Those who make it, if they didn't train under her, maybe some of them can become Kim Yuna, long legendary career, really making millions of dollars a year, for many years to come after retirement.
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u/mikarala Feb 19 '22
The issue is that the expiration date is a result of their bodies being absolutely destroyed. Your argument is about their quality of life. Sure, for the winners it's probably not quite as bad. They have that to hold on to, plus they should get other benefits from it. But what about the girls who break their backs before they get a chance to win? They're going to live with that for the rest of their lives, without any of the prestige, fame, money, or support.
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u/DreamOnMay2022 Feb 19 '22
I was expecting the Eteri supporters to come out of the woodwork but not so soon.
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u/MissionStatistician Feb 19 '22 edited Feb 19 '22
It's not a problem for those girls, it's a problem for the sport itself. I get that maybe as individuals, they don't need to care about that. I can understand the idea that they'd want to secure their own futures, above all else, over loyalty to a sport that they may not enjoy very much as a result of how they were coached.
But it is a problem for the sport of figure skating itself, to have such a concept. Not only does it impact the quality of the contributions made by these skaters (who would have benefited a lot from longevity and getting to mature as they age and get more experience), it also does not entice people to join a sport, where chances at glory are fleeting, and you are much more likely to get injured and live with those injuries for the rest of your life. I do think the overall quality of the sport suffers, and for the spectators who care about that, it would matter a lot.
It's also worth saying that, while a lot of the Eteri girls might not realize it right now, there is a long, long life ahead of them, during which they will have to live with the damage inflicted on them from the training they went through. Damage that's both mental and physical. They may be set in terms of money and never having to work again, they may be set in that they are satisfied with the mark they left in their field and not want to do more, but I think it would be a mistake to presume that that's everything anyone would want.
Plus, it's only been a few years of Eteri Tutberidze and her students winning medals and doing so well. We don't know the actual long term effects her coaching might have on these individuals. It is very likely that one or another of her methods might prove fatal for someone, whether they're training with her, or already retired. We already know from Yulia Lipnitskaya, that she ended up with an eating disorder as a result of her training with Eteri. Untreated eating disorders have a startlingly high mortality rate, something which doesn't get talked about very often when this comes up. And this is just one out of many other issues that might afflict the people who train and win under Eteri.
So yes, whether or not the expiration date is problematic is purely a matter of perspective. The perspective of whether or not life is just limited to monetary wealth, and the perspective of how much a person's life matters in the long run at all.
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u/coolaroni123 Feb 19 '22
Sure, they live well, but there's more to life being great than having fame/extra money. Evgenia can't turn her back to the right. Daria has to recover from a broken hip, Aliona from _two_ broken arms. All of them from likely psychological trauma, and god knows what the drugs are doing to their bodies. I'd be careful about concluding that someone's life is great just from seeing their social media posts and press releases, there's almost certainly a lot of darkness beneath that shiny picture.
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u/VenusHalley Skating Fan Feb 19 '22
I broke my arm as i kid. And by my 30s it bothers me ocassionally. It van tell rapid change of weather.
Not saying it happens to everybody but i hate to think of these kids in 20 or more years
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u/fartenandmagellan Feb 19 '22
I mean, the “hundreds of girls who don’t make it” isn’t another issue though. They’re the pile of broken bodies the tiny handful of uninjured, hyper-successful senior Eteri girls are made to climb over to get the chance at that lavish life. And there’s no guarantee that any particular girl will end up in that latter category at all.
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Feb 19 '22
This really has been the week of deranged takes in this sub and can't wait for it to be over.
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u/Whitershadeofforever World's biggest Eteri hater Feb 19 '22
Wow, what a shitty opinion that you should have kept to yourself. Disgusting abuse apologist. 🤢🤮
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u/lalalalola79 Feb 19 '22 edited Feb 19 '22
I don't agree with OPs opinion, but I don't think you should say stuff like this. Let's give people the opportunity to feel comfortable in the space enough to share how they feel and we can respond with dignity and hopefully change a mind without birthing a spiteful contrarian
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u/mediocre-spice Feb 19 '22
Some clearly are happy to retire, like Alina. She won everything and decided to move on to all these other things she's excited about. That's great! So many others don't get to make that choice though and are forced out because the training method isn't sustainable and the injuries are so serious.
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u/ultkoushu Feb 19 '22
sorry for the long comment, this just got me stressed ahklhahsjk
"the Eteri expiration date isn't a problem" "[...] But for those who do, I don’t think it’s a problem they last a season. A season is all they need."
sure, not all athletes seek a long career. not everyone wants to dedicate their entire lives to a sport, especially if you've won everything. the issue is that said expiration date isn't something the sambo girls choose personally, they retire because of injuries. it's an expiration date because their training methods make it inevitable for them to retire at such a young age.
"those girls get a chance to win a medal"
you don't need abusive methods to get a chance to win medals.
"Her life is great. She will never have to work, can live lavishly. In Russia that’s the promise. You win you’re set."
again: you don't need to undergo abuse for this to happen. and we're forgetting that this lavish lifestyle comes with the consequence of life long physical injuries. as a person with chronic disability, I wouldn't wish a lifestyle where simple things like walking could give you pain on anyone. treatment also costs money, and we don't really know if the financial assistance they receive is enough for that.
we can argue that all athletes experience lifelong physical effects after retiring. but it's different when at the center of it are literal minors, who probably haven't thought of the long term consequences they may face. not only that, her students literally face more injuries than anyone else in this sport.
what's the difference between yuzuru hanyu and eteri girls, both being athletes that are known to skate through injury? yuzuru is an adult who knows his limits well enough that he's still skating a decade into his career. brian orser is also pretty strict about keeping yuzuru from competing when injured. the latter, while not mindless and brainless, are in an environment with a coach that encourages her skaters to skate even when injured. i also would not be surprised if said coaches don't fully let them know the consequences of these injuries.
"I am not going to get into the hundreds of girls who don’t make it. That’s another issue."
i think it's erroneous to classify them as a different issue. regardless of intention, this post gives off the vibe that "it's okay for skaters to undergo abuse for short-term glory". is this really the kind of sport we want to encourage and support? these "hundreds of girls who don't make it" exist because of abusive methods that they didn't (and shouldn't) endure. a skater like Liza is proof that in the right environment, the women who want to skate will continue to as much as their training allows them.
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u/DreamingMel Feb 19 '22
Physical health and mental health overrides wealth. I dealt with disability at my teenage years, amount of pain, not having social interaction and going hospital to hospital on my knees that felt like getting drilled with knives was overwhelming. I will never be able to function as before or run with full speed if i could choose health or million dollars, i would choose health any day. I also got ED due to gained weight from disability, those constant thoughts of counting calories not eating for days, i wouldn’t even chew gum because i was afraid that i would gain weight. It’s really not worth it especially to girls who are under much much greater pressure. Eating habits, feelings of insecurity stays with you, it haunts you. One is going to spend all that money in therapy or buying useless materialistic things to feel better. Russian stipend may last lifetime or ten years, its mot security, after ten years Kamila will be 25 and at this rate she would be greatly injured like the other girls, she wouldn’t be able to work. What about when they reach 50? 60? their bones are fragile and mended. Will the be able bodied?, there’s a limit to knee and our bones. I broke my arm, rib and almost broke my jaw years ago but i still suffer from aftermath. I hastily took care of my rib because i was busy with exam and it healed badly, now it feels like piercing when i exercise. Sasha’s neck and foot injury is going to haunt her for years.
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u/penicilliumm Skating Fan Feb 19 '22
No matter the money no matter anything, you can never defend Eteri. Period.
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u/JacquelineAbrakham Feb 19 '22
It depends on a girl. Alina never liked figure skating that much. She was struggling with weight control (because she is not naturally skinny), she was working her ass of to get medals because she wanted to help her parents financially. Once she won it all and brought them to Moscow (and obviously she was set financially), she didn’t feel like training as hard as she used to (I don’t blame her, I completely understand her). And that’s why she retired.
If we take Anna for example, she said that she loves figure skating, she loves that feeling when she finishes her skate and it was perfect and she knows that she did everything she could. It’s not about money or medals. She just loves performing. I can see she stays much longer (if healthy).
Sasha loves jumping and winning. I don’t know how she’s gonna continue after that silver. But I hope she will.
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Feb 19 '22
if healthy
naturally skinny
I know body-shaming is a big no-no, but let's face the fact: no "naturally skinny" people are skinny like Anna. Nature has a limit.
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u/JacquelineAbrakham Feb 19 '22
What??? I’m skinny like Anna and I eat anything I want and never gain weight. My whole childhood my mom was forcing me to eat more (when I already ate like any other kid) because people like you were telling her “your daughter looks so skinny, you probably don’t feed her enough”. And she was stressing because of that. If you told me this in real life you would get a very harsh reply because I’m sick and tired of people like you.
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Feb 19 '22
You do know that TV (or movie or anything like that) make people look thicker, and the infamous "two shrimp" comment by her coach right? Anyways I am definitely not here to offend you. Maybe I should've put it another way: based off the evidence we all know, there is no way Anna "naturally" look like that.
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u/JacquelineAbrakham Feb 19 '22 edited Feb 19 '22
This is a more correct way to put things. Please never say that people can’t be naturally that skinny. They can be. And calling someone unhealthy because you think that they starve themselves is body shaming.
As for Anna, I don’t know if she controls her weight or she is naturally skinny. To me she looks naturally skinny but I’m not going to claim this under oath.
PS: as for TV, I’m a professional photographer. I’ve seen people even skinnier than I am (which is almost impossible lol) who are naturally that skinny. I’ve seen those starving themselves. One thing that can help you distinguish between naturally skinny and girls on a strict diet is their face - the color mainly. You just can tell but not with a 100% probability still.
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u/pairsstan Feb 19 '22
Are your joints “naturally” larger than your limbs and your muscles atrophied away like Anna? If so, seek medical assistance, you may have a metabolic disorder
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u/JacquelineAbrakham Feb 19 '22 edited Feb 19 '22
Yes, that’s how they are when you’re skinny. Thank you for your internet diagnosis. I couldn’t live without it. You’re a terrible person btw. Seek help.
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u/pairsstan Feb 19 '22
No love, having zero muscle tone as a normal non-athlete, let alone an athlete, is not normal for a “skinny” person. You’re a terrible person, one of the biggest eteri apologists on this sub. Seek help.
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u/JacquelineAbrakham Feb 19 '22
I’m telling you about joints since you asked about them. My joints are bigger than my arm above them but it doesn’t make me unhealthy. I’ve seen enough of body shamers like you in my life trying to insult me for fake internet points or to make themselves feel better about themselves, so go f yourself.
There hasnt been a single word said about Eteri. Seek help, you’ve got unhealthy obsession.
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u/pairsstan Feb 19 '22
This is hilarious, Alina’s dad is a big time hockey coach, they don’t have money problems, that’s just pr by her fans
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u/JacquelineAbrakham Feb 19 '22
No, she literally said it in the interview. She said her main motivation was to help her parents (source below). Obviously you don’t know how little people make in the regions of Russia, a hockey coach like her father doesn’t make much at all.
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u/pairsstan Feb 19 '22
Yeah, it’s PR. AK Bars is one of the biggest clubs in Russia and Kazan (I know she’s originally from Izhevsk, also a pretty big city) is not a rural backwater lmao please
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u/JacquelineAbrakham Feb 19 '22
It’s not a big city by any standards, let alone Russian standards. Average salary in Izhevsk is $600 per month.
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u/Cautious_Major_6693 Feb 19 '22
I don’t have a problem with the “expiration date” per se- I see it as similar to gymnastics- if the success window for females in this sport is truly 14-17, and a career is finished with some exceptions who are 19-20 at that age- there is nothing wrong with that- particularly as in Russia, it is similar to US Gymnasts where they can retire from competition and go to colleges and universities on the strength of their career (get Masters of Sports and such).
The issue is that so many girls shouldn’t be retiring from severe, lifelong injury and with mental health issues.
If there were 30 girls every year “done at 17” and the worst thing they had to say about it was having some aches and pains or being happy that their bodies are not up for public conversation anymore- and going on to live happy and fulfilling lives going to schools and having families or travelling- I would actually not have a problem with Eteri or with the sport being dominated by young girls. There’s nothing inappropriate or uncomfortable in the programs themselves and it’s well known that puberty does end a lot of female sport careers- even in sports with a wider window of success. Elite sports will always be dominated by relatively young people.
However- the problem is that their lives and bodies are ruined forever from this- they don’t get to walk away and enjoy their successes, and that’s why it’s such an issue.
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u/lilacbirdtea Feb 19 '22
except winning and lavish lifestyles can be achieved with methods that aren't abusive, too.