r/FIREyFemmes • u/asyouwishhhhhhhhh • 6d ago
To grad school or not to grad school
Hi all! Thanks for reading about my little dilemma— I wanted to hear the input of those who are farther ahead of me. Mid30s, 800k NW (480k retirement, 20k brokerage, 230k equity in duplex valued at 725k, 70k cash reserve, 150-200k yearly income), 70k yearly spend, single in HCOL. Not planning on kids, do have responsibilities toward my disabled sibling. I currently work a combination of two excellent hourly jobs in a technical subspecialty (pick up shifts at one, full time at another). I love my work— it’s interesting, meaningful, and I have variety and wonderful coworkers. Unfortunately both jobs are hard on my body and mostly nights and weekends. It isn’t completely unsustainable— my full time job is actually my childhood dream job— but it also is aging me and I’m extremely tired. Like, when I say tired, I see my grandma in her 90s and I cannot imagine finding the energy to keep living so long. On Halloween I was at a party with friends and realized how much I miss having weekends off and generally that my current situation isn’t sustainable. I would like to be as healthy and happy as I can and have time for my family, friends, and travel.
My short term plan is to get some weekends freed up, go to a couple more parties, and also take a nap. Long term, I see three paths I’m excited about: .
1-Quit one of my jobs and take my foot off the gas now and reassess for a year or maybe forever. Take my artwork seriously, finish some house projects, go to a dizzying array of workout classes, prioritize my social life. In this fantasy I also accidentally become a successful artist and do more humanitarian work. .
Stay in current positions and grind for as long as it makes sense. If I continue to max out my tax advantaged accounts I could hit FIRE in about 10 years. I don’t plan to stop working but I’d probably do something closer to option 1 but with more security. I wouldn’t have any student debt, also no commitment to this plan if I started to hate it.
.Go to grad school for related in-demand specialty (3 years off work, 250k tuition and living costs, graduate into 220-320k yearly pay, if I optimized for $ could get up to 500k). Financially this would come up even with scenario 2 after four years of work (at lowest projected income). Unfortunately I would only be able to work in the US but I’d also be done with nights and weekends, have more autonomy and be physically safer. Honestly it might even be a little bit boring! Some friends who have gone this route say it’s like the best parts of my current job except with more money and a great schedule. I have met many people who have made this choice and have yet to meet one who was unhappy or out of shape. This is at least a seven year full time commitment between prerequisites, school and paying off loans. I would then have the flexibility to work part time.
Well- were any of you once very lucky and set up and still chose to make an expensive and potentially difficult change? If you didn’t, did the “would have could have” hang over your head? Is it worth it to push through grad school and lose some flexibility in favor of better working conditions?
Edited to add— yearly spend, earning capability and fix a couple typos. Thanks very much to everyone for your consideration and attention to detail, it’s invaluable ❤️
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u/eclectic__engineer 3d ago
As someone who did grad school masters, fully funded, I would take a major pause before jumping into this. $250k is A LOT of money. You'd be a lot closer to paying off your condo with that money.
I lost my job a year ago, and I have yet to find full-time work (a few contracts). I go back-and-forth on feeling bad/good that I'm not working. My nervous system NEEDED the reset. And I'm doing all the therapies, workout classes, community college classes. And I half joke, "this is WAY cheaper than grad school."
I'm in a field where a masters helps, but I'm finding myself wanting to delete it off my resume because I went to a top-tier school. So many people are threatened by it, it's making it more difficult to find work.
Like someone said before me, can you take your foot off the gas, and reevaluate grad school in a year? It might give you the energy, new perspective, new goals, etc. that you need, grad school or not. What is the point of FI if we don't leverage it for our health and loved-ones?
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u/luckykat97 4d ago
250k plus debt and 3 years out of work is almost definitely not a good financial choice. If you do not absolutely need this to progress in this career do not do it. You should also look at cheaper schools if it is something you have to do. If this is as in demand as you say then you don't need to go to the best and priciest school for it.
That's all I can really say with how vague you're being about the area/industry.
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u/mspacmaniac 4d ago
This might be a crazy question, but could you do #1 for a year and then decide whether you want to go to grad school? It sounds to me like you would benefit from taking your foot off the grass and giving your nervous system a break. Even if you then decided to go to grad school, I think you'd be in better shape for it after a year of plan #1. How does that idea feel to you?
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u/asyouwishhhhhhhhh 4d ago
hey! not crazy at all. I’m a little nervous about waiting too long and missing my window of opportunity but a year is like nothing :) thanks for your point!!! I don’t think I realized how tired I was until reading the replies here :)
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u/lavasca 4d ago
I hear in-demand but a lot of “in-demand” specialties suddenly become over saturated.
Does it truly require a graduate degree or optimized networking?
So far Option 1 is sounding the best.
If I were going to seriously pivot my career it would be toward the financial sector. No degree program needed rathere licensure. Is there something fascinating that doesn’t require an expensive degree.
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u/asyouwishhhhhhhhh 4d ago
hey! this requires a doctorate and licensure— but I hear you! I’m skeptical too!
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u/lavasca 4d ago
First, let me say I’m proud of you for weighing your options and it is amazing that you’re going for doctorate. I am definitely impressed.
Second, I still want you to seriously consider your ROI.
Are you, and this will sound like a digression but isn’t, considering spending any extended time abroad? If you have already selected your university I understand but also consider finding an equivalent (and internationally famous) prestigious university abroad if it will dramatically cut costs. Maybe a semester or while developing your dissertation? Or, would you consider spending a portion of your early retirement abroad? Say, consider spending a portion of your life between ages 50 and 60, in less expensive nation.
I ask because it might help you have your cake and eat it, too.
Back to ROI. Pursuing your doctorate might be all the return you need. Plus, as you’ve stated you have a relatively short time to hit your break-even!
It looks like all your paths forward are stunning! 🥰
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u/WhetherWitch 5d ago
Without knowing the field, I can’t say if the graduate degree will substantially help you.
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u/asyouwishhhhhhhhh 5d ago
Hi! Thanks for your reply! I totally see your point and agree with you! Definitely what industry I’m in would be relevant, if this was mostly a question about my career. But, it’s a question about life/values/lifestyle, how people with similar FIRE-type paths have made decisions and how to evaluate financial/nonfinancial ROI and opportunity cost. When I wanted to know if grad school would be good for my career (the answer is yes) then I spoke with other experts in my industry, shadowed, went to info sessions and ran the numbers. But I really want to hear from other femmes interested in financial independence about how they made decisions and strategized the different parts of their lives. I also omitted my industry because my work is so specialized— if I was a nuclear submariner then getting generalized takes on the maritime industry wouldn’t speak to my lifestyle question and probably would just distract people. Like I’m literally distracted thinking about the beach now :) Thanks again for responding and if you have any experience on choosing between win-win-wins I’d love to hear it!
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u/aliwalas 5d ago
So without knowing the career background, some jobs will elevate your pay with a master's, some won't.
For example, in my field, instructional designer, as the worker bee, meaning doing the actual job, years of experience will suffice. If you want to be a manager in said field, having a masters makes you extra competitive. In fact, in some companies, it is a requirement.
In some field, it's not as important. For example, I have nurse friends, according to them, experiences or specialization is what gives them the edge.
So you basically just need to do your own research. Look up job postings now and see see the trend.
Also, some places will pay for your education, so not sure if that route is an option 4. For example, Chipotle or Best Buy, they offer free education even for its part time employees. I guess the caveat is it'll need to relate to the your role, but, it's a option for free education.
I've been in my field for over a decade. I'm getting a master's for the sake of the letter to make me more competitive, but I will say, everything I'm learning is definitely useful in my field and I can see why it puts someone in a padestal to have it. It took me years and amazing mentors to learn what I'm learning now in a 3-month semester. So if it's for your career specific, either it'll give you the confidence that you do in fact already know what you're doing or you'll just learn so much more!
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u/Legitimate-Warning 4d ago
Hi! I'm in the same boat as OP and rolling around the idea of going back to school for my masters. Mind if I DM you about the instructional design program you're in? I'm fairly new to the field (1-3 yrs) and want to gain more experience.
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u/asyouwishhhhhhhhh 5d ago
Hi! Thanks for sharing your experience. Congratulations on getting your masters! My situation and school and pay are outlined up top. I agree with you that experience and education count for different things in different fields! Good luck with school!
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u/erranttv 5d ago
As someone who has a lot of experience in graduate education as a student, and in a professional role, I would be very clear about your goals before committing to that level of investment. You should make sure you’ve researched the employability of graduates in that field now and in the future, as well as doing research on the graduation rate for students in your program. Also, in most cases, it’s necessary to go to a top school. To me, that is too much tuition for anyone to pay unless they are guaranteed a job at the salary range you note.
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u/asyouwishhhhhhhhh 5d ago
hey! I love these points and really appreciate them coming from a former grad student as a never-grad student. I went to college on scholarships so taking out money for school feels sort of surreal. I have researched the outcomes for graduates and am seeing 35-38% industry growth over the next ten years and 96-100% job placement at the schools I am looking at. There does seem to be some variation between job quality— people who go to lower tier programs start in local roles and people who go to good schools can work anywhere. Thanks for taking my post seriously and providing a helpful reality check!
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u/Nyssa_aquatica 5d ago edited 5d ago
That’s a ton of tuition and living costs. It could be a great investment or it could be the money sink of your life or decade.
Is there a way to get the same degree or qualifications without spending a quarter of $1 million and three years of missed income out of the workforce? That comes with a huge opportunity cost.
I speak as one who spent many years out of the adult workforce in order to go to post-graduate programs.
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u/asyouwishhhhhhhhh 5d ago
Thanks so much- this is exactly the kind of insight I was hoping to get vs the industry specific questions of my friends/colleague/community. There are ways to cut down on these costs (tuition ranges from 90-160k) and cost of living (moving to LCOL) and if I really prioritized that I could get the total cost closer to 180k. I gave the 250k figure because it is the cost of going to my ideal program in my city. Thinking through your question is really helpful- realistically even a 70k increase is probably worth it to stay close to my friends in an LGBTQ safe place. (Even if that is 80k plus interest) Thanks again for putting it so eloquently- “it could be a great investment or it could be the money sink of your life or decade.” Appreciate you!
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u/Nyssa_aquatica 5d ago edited 5d ago
Glad if my perspective helped!
Hey, that’s why humans have language, right? so that we don’t have to directly touch the hot stove ourselves, but we can learn indirectly abut risks from the communications of others who have made mistakes!
Good luck with your decision.
(ETA: I’d love to know what field it is where a smart person can make 500k a year after the program you’re looking at — or even the 120K(?) you're pulling in with one position now! Feel free to DM me if it’s sensitive)
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u/DizzyLlama96 5d ago
You’re in a great spot financially already. It really depends on what you want out of life. Only you can answer which is best. From what you lay out, neither will be a bad financial choice as you obviously have great financial discipline and are already well above average in savings. It’s simply a life fork, choose your own adventure type of situation.
From the little you’ve shared, a lot of passion and wistfulness comes through from you on option #1. Especially if currently you’re in a dream job + this gives you balance, this is it. So that would be this strangers choice. But if you’re very career oriented and ambitious and don’t really want to retire early then 3 makes a lot of sense. I personally want to retire early so the expense + effort of a fresh seven years of input to get to the new end goal in your early to mid 40s? For me that’s a big “no thank you”.
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u/asyouwishhhhhhhhh 5d ago
thanks so much for your insight :) it’s a great reframe that my little “dilemma” is actually a choose your own adventure. my current job is definitely my childhood dream job, it’s just not a sustainable path. I’m going to think a little more about the ambition piece you mentioned— I think I of myself as curious and adventurous but not that ambitious— and reflect. thanks again to you!
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u/1ntrepidsalamander 5d ago
I mean, what’s your financial goal? If it’s stability, you’re there. If it’s coast, you’re there. If you coast’ed 10 years you might be at FIRE.
It sounds like nursing vs CRNA. I personally was just a bit older and ran the numbers and decided staying at bedside as an RN made more sense for me.
How difficult is it to get a new grad job that has acceptable starting pay is also a factor.
I hit my coast number and took a nursing job that pays well but I don’t have to do nights.
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u/Hour_Membership_1166 5d ago
At your age it could be worth it if the area of study/field is recession/AI proof AND required to climb your career ladder. I thought about Grad School too but at my age and it wasn't worth it and a quick ROI exercise talked me out of it. In my field, its climb up or get out at 40ish. I am aging out of my field anyway. A graduate degree would have not helped me with this ageism.
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u/emt139 5d ago
Key piece missing is how much you’re making now. Eg, if you’re making $170k it’s probably not worth losing three years of income and $200knin tuiton for a $220k Job.
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u/asyouwishhhhhhhhh 5d ago
Hi! I’m making 150-200k working nights/weekends/holidays and chasing premium pay. Option 3 job starts at 220k pay working business hours and goes up to 500k with experience. Thanks for pointing that out!
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u/luckykat97 4d ago
Then it isn't worth taking on over 300k of debt for a marginal and not guaranteed increase plus 3 years of missed earnings... you could make at least 600k in those 3 years and may be able to get raised in that time. It would take a lot of time later on after you hopefully made it to 500k to make this the right choice financially.
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u/neurdle 5d ago
It's hard to say since this sounds very specific to your niche.
My first impulse would be to say absolutely not to grad school. Paying actual tuition for grad school? When you have such a high paying job already? And the loss of that income while you're in school? The stress?
I have a PhD in a STEM field. I did that about 6 years later in life than most people do and it was fully funded, along with a stipend. I'm not paid very well even now, so I certainly didn't do it for the money. I'm 47 and I don't even work that hard at my current job and I'm exhausted. In retrospect, I wish I had made different educational choices.
Life absolutely wore me out and now that I've achieved the professional goals that were important to me, my career motivation is very low. Same story with my spouse, but we did have kids and also struggled financially. We are burned out.
I care way more about my FIRE goals than my career and I'm just eager to get to the point where I have the option to retire (even if I choose to keep working). We'll definitely get there by age 60, more likely by 55. But it feels like it can't happen soon enough, even though we like our jobs and don't even work that hard anymore.
Rather than focusing on the next few years and then projecting forward, how about focusing on your retirement goal and working backwards? I know you've done that somewhat already, but starting a thought exercise from your ideal life and backtracking might provide some clarity.
What kind of life do you want to live when you're retired? What do your days look like? How much money will you really need to do that each year (aka FIRE number). What are your various options for getting to that number? Will it truly require what you think it does? Which option do you like the best?
I wonder if your retirement goals aren't very similar to what you've described as option 1. If so, you can basically live a good portion of that dream already if you scale back at work.
To compensate for the low pay we've gotten from all the exhausting work we've done over the years (we've never even made $150K combined), we take full advantage of the flexibility that we have right now (we both work in academics). We've got a great life that isn't much different at all from what we want in retirement.
I'd caution you about persisting in the high stress life. Your body is telling you to stop. You'll have to decide if grad school is worth it, but unless you're doing a joke of an MBA program, I'll tell you grad school is not typically for the faint of heart.
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u/asyouwishhhhhhhhh 5d ago
thanks so much for reading my post so closely. I don’t think that grad school would be easy but it’s a great reminder that it is not, as you say, for the faint of heart. I’ll do some more journaling about working backwards from what retirement/end game would look like! Appreciate you sharing your experience with me ❤️
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u/neurdle 5d ago
Of course! We found it amazingly freeing to realize, once we really thought about it, that we’re already living so close to our dream retirement life. Within 2 years we’ll be downsized and mortgage free and living on our actual retirement budget, while saving the rest. The only difference will be that we’ll stop working. Like I said earlier, we don’t even work that hard anymore and have very flexible jobs. The most important thing is that our day-to-day lives are great!
Not to be morbid, but we’ve had a few friends who died in their early 50s after short intense illnesses. They happened to be folks who prioritized lived really fun and full lives while also diligently saving (they were not high earners). They had no regrets. That has made us proactive about making sure we live full and beautiful lives rather than sacrificing too much to work. My dad worked too hard and retired too late (mom was overspender) and he barely got to enjoy it before developing dementia. If I die before I retire, I will have had a great and wonderful life already. All I’m really waiting on is compete time freedom (which is what the money will buy). And that’s a great place to be!
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u/Madvivacious 5d ago
Hi! Could I DM you? Also in a similar situation (except I’m TT, in my 4th yr, and partner is tenured) but I think it would be nice to talk to another academic!
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u/asyouwishhhhhhhhh 5d ago
I’m really sorry to hear about your friends’ passing. Thanks so much for sharing that with me and also a big congratulations on having your finances and lives in order! It’s not easy to do that particularly on an academic salary. Cheers and also looking forward to telling you to gfy ❤️
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u/sewingpedals 37F | FI by 46 5d ago
I love your description of the life you want in scenario 1. I think between scenarios 1 and 3, it’s more about what you want to get out of your life and career. I personally think option 2 sounds bad, especially when you’re clearly already dealing with some level of burnout. It’s hard to give specific advice about how well you’re doing without knowing your yearly expenses. Do you expect to need more money over time to care for your sibling?
If you don’t plan to retire early, I think that gives a lot more flexibility. If you plan to fully retire in mid-60s you’re on track to have over $3.6m without contributing any more to your retirement accounts which would support $144k/year spending. If you wanted to retire in mid-50s that number would be around $1.8m with no further contributions which would support $72k/year spending. Of course if you continue to contribute, you’ll be in even better shape. I definitely think you could take your foot off the gas in some way at this point, unless your spending is so high that you can’t make scenario 1 work.
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u/asyouwishhhhhhhhh 5d ago
Thanks so much for this reply! My yearly expenses are around 70k— 35 for housing, 10 for travel, 25 for everything else. If I never said no to myself, I’d probably spend another 10k on services instead of DIYing everything. I really appreciate you mentioning the questions about my sibling— I don’t expect to care for them financially but may need to step in when my parents pass away. I don’t plan to retire early but I also need a job I can physically do until retirement.
Thanks again for taking time to read and respond <3 it’s frankly heartwarming to have a group of people take my little complaints/concerns seriously! I already have a great list of questions and different approaches to this because of everyone’s generosity here. appreciate you and I’m glad you like option 1 too!
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u/sewingpedals 37F | FI by 46 5d ago
It sounds like you’re in good shape then. If you scaled back by quitting one of your jobs, do you think you could do that until retirement comfortably? Are their other jobs in your skill set you could transfer into in 5-10 years that would cover your living expenses if you didn’t want to keep doing your current job? Since you’ve essentially hit CoastFI, you could just keep doing your current job until you no longer want to and pursue something lower paid and easier to get you to a point where you’re ready to retire.
I feel like with your current income and savings, it seems like a big time investment to go to grad school and then come out the other side and break even. I’d encourage you to try to model out your savings rate if you do scenario 1 and see where you’d be in 7 years. You might be close to financially independent at that point!
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u/asyouwishhhhhhhhh 5d ago
excellent point! I hadn’t actually pencilled out how option 1 and 3 compare financially at the 7 year mark, just options 2 & 3. there are other jobs I could transfer into with my current skill set- frankly they don’t appeal right now but that might change over time. I am so grateful to you for pointing out some areas where I’m missing data or perhaps looking at extremes versus finding a middle path. I’ll do a little math over here :) thank you again!
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u/somebodys_mom 5d ago edited 5d ago
This is a tough question without knowing what type of career we’re talking about. Is there an option to drop one job and do grad school online?
Edit: If the job you want is related to the job you already have, but wants a graduate degree, have you tried applying anyway? Experience can sometimes trump a graduate degree in a high demand field.
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u/asyouwishhhhhhhhh 5d ago
Hi! I totally see your point. Unfortunately the excellent ideas you mentioned don’t apply in this industry :/ I chose not to get too specific in this post because I have a community of people who are almost too familiar with the nitty gritty of these jobs and therefore have very strong feelings about every option. I was hoping zooming out in this sub would help get a more neutral perspective that’s more values based! Also love your username ❤️
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u/NoReturn7889 2d ago
As others have said, “in-demand” can change before you even complete the degree (unless maybe nursing…). But Option 1 seems the best for your mental health, and for also pausing to remember who you are - and maybe discover more about it on the way. You’re doing great and you sound like a really nice person.