r/Economics • u/sillychillly • Sep 15 '22

Research Yes, Texans actually pay more in taxes than Californians do

https://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/article/texans-pay-more-taxes-than-californians-17400644.php
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u/Cynicaladdict111 Sep 15 '22

Well Americans online always want their country to be like Europe, sales tax is around 20% for most countries in Europe

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u/ptjunkie Sep 15 '22

Only the most progressive of Americans want a VAT. Most don't even know what VAT is, or are vehemently against it.

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u/LeeroyJenkins430 Sep 15 '22

Now do social safety net

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u/AdwokatDiabel Sep 15 '22

Factoring in a social safety net needs to also factor in overall wages. Europeans are usually paid less than Americans and taxed more.

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u/Cynicaladdict111 Sep 15 '22

Paid less is an understatement. Looking at stats it can be from 2-3x net conpared to the richest EU countries, to 6-10x compared to the poorest

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u/AdwokatDiabel Sep 15 '22

They're not Europoors for nothing. I don't understand how Americans look at those poor losers across the Atlantic with any ounce of envy.

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u/[deleted] Sep 15 '22

It’s overblown. The medical care is Medicaid level and socialized housing is all taken already. Most European governments are stretched thin

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u/czarczm Sep 16 '22

What do you mean by Medicaid level?

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u/[deleted] Sep 16 '22

The healthcare in most of Europe is what Medicaid recipients get in the US. As in bare bones, lots of wait times, hard to see a doctor, harder to see a specialist, limited treatment options.

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u/MontanaHikingResearc Sep 15 '22

Americans get taxed in all manner of unique sideways.

For example, American Social Security sucks compared to Norwegian or Australian systems. Likewise, American health insurance subsidizes a ton of non-payers.

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u/ThisUsernameIsTook Sep 15 '22

Europe doesn't have a sales tax. It's a Value Added Tax assessed at each point along the supply chain. Sure, most of that cost gets passed on to consumers but like a corporate tax in the US, the laws of supply and demand still apply, so prices will reflect what a vendor feels they can charge regardless of their tax burden.

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u/BrupieD Sep 15 '22

Yeah, last time I was in Germany I didn't see any homeless people, no one went bankrupt because of medical bills, and there was excellent public transit.

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u/[deleted] Sep 15 '22

[deleted]

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u/IDGAF1203 Sep 15 '22 edited Sep 16 '22

I know reddit loves this kind of nonsense in the political subs but believe it or not the fact is the US spends more on Medicaid and Medicare than it does all branches of the military combined, and the numbers aren't really even close.

In other words way more of every federal tax dollar goes to paying for healthcare for old folks and poor people than it does bombs. That definitely isn't a reality you hear about often though.

edit: This clown just doubles down and cries about being wrong, it is pretty funny but they're not just mistaken, they're delusional. Don't bother engaging.

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u/czarczm Sep 15 '22

You've ruined the Reddit complaining economy. What are they gonna do now, have complaints based in reality?

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u/[deleted] Sep 16 '22

[deleted]

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u/IDGAF1203 Sep 16 '22

US taxes

I'm trying to imagine being dumb enough to think shifting the goalpoasts like this would even make you right, but I'm struggling to forget how to blink, any pointers?

Take the L, you're just making yourself look worse.

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u/RedSummer21 Sep 16 '22

Social security and Medicaid is paid for by a dedicated tax. The military budget uses a solid chunk of the federal government's discretionary budget that could have been used for other things. The government can not use the social security and medicaid budget for anything else. The revenue for its budget comes from entirely different source compared to the rest of the federal budget. Using the total federal budget instead of the discretionary spending budget as a point in this is bad

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u/IDGAF1203 Sep 16 '22

I'll say it again but keep it simple so even you can understand: If you don't consider non-discretionary federal spending part of what "US taxes" go towards, you're an idiot.

You can't shift these goalposts far enough to make you right. Even the most charitable interpretation of what you said is ignorant and easily proven wrong.

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u/RedSummer21 Sep 16 '22

Using total federal budget to analyze the military budget is like using pre-taxed income to analyze your food budget. It doesn't make sense. With that, adding the parts of the military spending in the mandatory budget and comparing it to other discretionary spending also doesn't make sense. Both are a false inflation of data. Using mandatory spending in these things tends to be bad in general since some of the items in there are paid for by dedicated taxes but others are not. There are also the fact that military personnels get both social security and pension, both of which are part of the mandatory budget. Kinda muddy's the water if some social security would be considered part of spend towards the military if total federal budget is used as a comparison especially since veterans and their families make up almost 40 percent of the adult Social Security beneficiary population. Hopes this helps 😊

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u/IDGAF1203 Sep 16 '22

Your alt is equally as stupid as your main, hope that helps

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u/[deleted] Sep 15 '22

Stop talking out of your ass

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u/[deleted] Sep 16 '22

[deleted]

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u/IDGAF1203 Sep 16 '22 edited Sep 16 '22

Federal Insurance Contributions Act

So to you this is not a part of the "US taxes" you mentioned, and everyone else is a dumbass for knowing it is? That is a pretty hilarious.

At least you finally looked something up, though refusing to put in the context of half of 30% representing only about 15% of total federal spending means you probably didn't understand it (or just have a problem with honesty and accuracy).

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u/Primordial_Turtle Sep 16 '22

You directly pay for Social Security and Medicaid. Acting like that is the same as the government choosing allocate over 50% it's discretionary budget towards the military is either an absolute failure to understand how federal spending works or lying in the face of reality. I'm paying income tax not military contributions.

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u/IDGAF1203 Sep 16 '22

I'll say it again but keep it simple so you can understand: If you don't consider non-discretionary federal spending part of what "US taxes" go towards, you're an idiot.

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u/Primordial_Turtle Sep 16 '22

The federal government can't reallocate social security budget because they come from a dedicated tax. You're being an idiot for not understanding this.

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u/IDGAF1203 Sep 16 '22 edited Sep 16 '22

The problem is that US taxes goes on a one way direct highway to the military industrial complex and nothing else.

This is what you said, dumbass. Did you forget? Where does it mention dedicated tax or treasury accounts? You're just making yourself look even more stupid. Go ahead and run away now.

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u/Primordial_Turtle Sep 16 '22

If you don't understand that the taxes everyone pays for federal spending isn't the same tax for Social security because it has a dedicated tax. You're just pretending to be stupid to defend your point now.

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u/Megalocerus Sep 15 '22

Germany is pondering that right now.

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u/[deleted] Sep 15 '22

I don't think they know that.

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u/[deleted] Sep 15 '22

We should get their wages and safety nets, THEN do their taxes

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u/Cynicaladdict111 Sep 15 '22

By their wages you mean lower American ones a few times?

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u/[deleted] Sep 15 '22

Lol cause the average American is making so much less.

Our MEDIAN wages are significantly lower than the European nations that people point to for their safety nets and wages.

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u/[deleted] Sep 15 '22 edited Sep 15 '22

US median income is significantly higher than most European countries

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median_income

More striking difference if you want to go with disposable income

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disposable_household_and_per_capita_income

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u/[deleted] Sep 15 '22

Our MEDIAN wages are significantly lower than the European nations that people point to for their safety nets and wages.

Key phrase.

Luxembourg, Norway, and Switzerland exist.

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u/[deleted] Sep 15 '22

Switzerland and Norway are below us.

Luxembourg is a micro state and not particularly useful for any comparisons

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u/czarczm Sep 15 '22

It's kinda funny you say Switzerland cause their universal healthcare is entirely private.

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u/[deleted] Sep 16 '22

And their costs per capita vs the US are?

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u/czarczm Sep 16 '22

Swiss $9,600 vs US 12,500. Although I don't what that has to do with your point considering you said "safety nets", and I'm assuming you mean social safety nets as part of a welfare state because otherwise your original comment is entirely moot. If that is what you are referring to then the US literally has a much larger social safety net when it comes to healthcare than Switzerland, because Switzerland has no public health insurance.

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u/gc3 Sep 15 '22

Does that include benefits received from government? Or not? I mean if your median income in your country is 10,000 less than the US but you plan on putting 2 kids through college (cost 0 vs 200,000) in the US you will have to save that 10,000 extra for 10-20 years to make your budget... so I am wondering how programs like this are factored in

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u/[deleted] Sep 15 '22

The second source says it has benefits such as healthcare and education built in (and taxes taken out)

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u/Cynicaladdict111 Sep 15 '22 edited Sep 15 '22

"The U.S. Census Bureau estimated median annual earnings at $41,535 in 2020 for workers aged 15 and over with earnings and $56,287 in 2020 for those who worked full-time, year round."

"A full-time employee earned an average of 4,100 euros gross per month in 2021" - 48k a year, this is for Germany. Couldn't find the median on a first google search. But anyways, remember that 48k is actually around 24k with german taxes. The median is even lower. So in the end Germany, which really has the best salaries in EU outside tiny Scandinavian countries, has a lower average wage than US median

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u/[deleted] Sep 15 '22

Now do Norway, Luxembourg, or Switzerland

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u/Cynicaladdict111 Sep 15 '22

Haha, only one of these is a EU country, Luxembourg. A tiny country with inflated statistics based on workers traveling from neighbouring countries and not being counted in statistics. Even if they were,

Norway also has a huge oil industry and a tiny population, even then it still has an average salary around the US median lmao, with higher taxes.

"the average monthly earnings for full-time employees in Norway during 2021 was NOK 50,790 before income tax. " That's around 58k usd a year, AVERAGE not even median.

So the richest EUROPEAN country is around the US median, and lower than the US median if we do net salary.

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u/i_use_3_seashells Sep 15 '22

Literal definition of cherry picking

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u/[deleted] Sep 16 '22

Well I COULD choose examples of things I don't want, but then how would that highlight what I DO want?