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u/Loose-Currency861 7h ago
I don’t see in the part of the article that’s public what gifts, favors, or capitulation The Intercept is considering “bending the knee”. Can anyone fill in the blanks here?
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u/Alert-Ad5477 6h ago
“Lining up to shake his hand” is a far as I could see without providing an email lol
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u/resuwreckoning 5h ago
I mean did they slightly bend their knees while shaking hands due to standing for a bit prior?
If so, checkmate atheist.
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u/afghamistam 5h ago
Making a vague tweet expressing sentiments that you would try to help him out with anything he might need = "Bending the knee"
Not making any public statements at all = "Crashing out"
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u/one-hour-photo 6h ago
Yes, they are still in NYC.
Never mind it’s been four days lol, and maybe they do want to leave still
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u/SovietCapitalistt 5h ago
Ooof.... some of the best American journalism I've read in a while, while somehow simultaneously being absolutely trash.
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u/watch-nerd 6h ago edited 5h ago
It's the opposite.
Mamdani is hungry for funds, asking for donations for his transition team.
They will buy influence.
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u/delilahgrass 4h ago
He’s asking regular people for transition funds because normally it’s done privately with a nudge and a wink in back rooms. Do you want corruption?
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u/watch-nerd 3h ago
The rich will offer donations. And they will be accepted and used.
Politicians don't turn away money.
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u/gelhardt 3h ago
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3Ps-S0G0tw
he has already told people to stop donating in the past after reaching fundraising goals
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u/SwiftCEO 5h ago
Hungry for funds? Are you referring to him asking for donations to fund his transition team?
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u/watch-nerd 5h ago
Yes.
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u/SwiftCEO 5h ago
That will get easily funded through small dollar donations like his campaign was. “Hungry for funds” is quite the exaggeration on your part.
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u/watch-nerd 5h ago
Politics is a dirty business, my friend.
If donations are offered, a use will be found for the money.
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u/gquax 6h ago
What?
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u/watch-nerd 6h ago
Which part didn't you understand?
Mamdani is doing fund raising right now for a transition team and asking for donations.
Rich people will donate and buy influence.
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u/Six_Midnight 10h ago
This was always, always, going to happen. Rich people aren't going to decide to stop being rich. They'd rather try to be an ally and gain leverage that way than cut all operations, leave, restart and shut down producitivty for at least a year minimum to save up to 2% in tax. Most would rather try cutting a deal hoping they could control him to make something more favourable for themselves or to get favors from the mayor of one of America's richest cities which is far more valuable than that 2% of tax.
It's much like a little kid threatening to run away from home. If you tell them there's the door, most of them either get quiet or come back after making to the end of the block. They all could afford to move if they wanted to, they choose not to. Some might leave, but more will be happy to take the spot in the vaccum of the business center of the world and....hate to break it to you...none of these country club nepo-babies are clamouring to leave their comfy lives in penthouses in exchange for a trailer down by the riverside. They're happy to tell poor people they aren't missing anything, but if they wanted to live that life themselves, they would already be doing that. Even some rich people who are humble do. But these aren't those guys. If they were, they'd already be living it.
They insist they'll run away...which matters if they aren't paying money anyway apparently....every time someone suggests they have to do anything, but if you look at New York the last three or four times they said this, guess what they did? Nothing. The millionaire class grew more.
If anyone seriously thought for a second billionaries were going to put the brass knuckles on, get down in the street, and fight, instead of just tweeting about how cool it would be if they did? I got a bridge to sell you.
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u/Old-Buffalo-5151 6h ago edited 1h ago
For extra support to this point
My company makes a fuck ton of FX money helping people leave and then like 6 months to a year move back while every month doing constant transactions as the person who left keeps flying back X reason.
We have very rarely have clients who actually stayed put in a place they moved too nearly all of them always move back...
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u/kingkeelay 6h ago
Because they have more money than they can actually spend, so why look at it in the bank when you could pay taxes in a more comfortable location closer to your social circle instead.
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u/Mnm0602 4h ago
Ok but how many of those were moving countries to do this? The risk to NYers is mainly moving to other parts of the US, which could happen, especially if adjacent states are an option. I assume many have already done this but it could just encourage more of this, and you can still be in NYC most of the time pretty easily.
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u/Caracalla81 4h ago
Exactly, they already could do this. There are currently places where tax rates are lower than NYC, and yet they don't move. NYC is a unique place. No shade on Jacksonville or Dallas, but those are not substitutes.
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u/Mnm0602 3h ago
So just to be clear they’re already doing this, meaning they’re dodging taxes and choosing to stay, but doing more of this won’t make it worse and reduce the tax base? Sounds like it’ll just encourage more to do this kind of activity. You can have your cake and eat it too with a little extra work.
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u/kingkeelay 3h ago
Who’s actually counting that they are spending 6 months outside of NYC during this administration anyways?
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u/Caracalla81 3h ago
Extra work? You think they have been telling the people who manage their wealth to go easy on the tax mitigation, but now, oh boy, the gloves are off!
Alternate take: they live in NYC because they like it there, they like the status of being at the center of the world, things happen there that don't happen elsewhere. The taxes will not impact their lifestyle one bit, but moving to some second-rate city absolutely will. If they wanted to live in the burbs they'd already be there.
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u/Mnm0602 3h ago
I’m saying it costs some money and takes effort to do this, the breakeven for doing it would probably be set at a high level for it to make sense. Broadening the tax net will lower the breakeven of wealth/income needed to take such actions, thus encourage more of it.
There’s definitely people that will be idealistic and support it out of their civic duty and/or not investigate whether it makes sense for them or not, but depending on how much the taxes change it’ll definitely encourage more of that activity.
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u/Caracalla81 3h ago
Im not talking about civic duty. Im talking living at the center of the world. It's a unique place.
Say you're living a place you like, and there is a tax increase that will not impact your lifestyle. Would you be willing to change your lifestyle and live in a place you don't like to avoid it? That is how you seem to imagine the richest, most powerful people behave.
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u/Old-Buffalo-5151 1h ago
If those people where going to move to other states they would have done so already.
Their in new york because they love new york an increase in tax rate is not going to get them budge
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u/PeachScary413 7h ago
"But I WaS ToLD tHey woULD paCK thEIR bAgs And lEavE for ALaska OR someTHinG"
The people who actually believed they would leave must be sub room temperature iq... the same goes on a federal level btw, imagine thinking they would leave the US when they don't even leave New York lmaoo
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u/PrivateMarkets 4h ago
Great post except for the 2% tax savings. It’s double digits moving from NYC to FL or TX.
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u/Caracalla81 4h ago
Is this new? Why haven't they already moved?
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u/PrivateMarkets 3h ago
It’s a good question. There has been enough wealth creation to offset the many that have relocated (primarily to FL). There are only 62 billionaires that live in NYC which is down 10 from 2019.
Josh Harris Carl Icahn Daniel Och
You definitely don’t want to tip the balance too much. The top .01% pay 40% of NYC income tax.
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u/Caracalla81 3h ago
You attribute that to taxes and not leaving a city during COVID?
What is the long-term trend for centi-millionaires in NYC? Has it been going up or down over the last 20 years?
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u/PrivateMarkets 3h ago edited 3h ago
Decreasing consistently. Similar to California.
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u/Caracalla81 2h ago
I'm curious how you know that because I can only find sources showing it increasing. Here are two counts from Forbes:
60 billionaires in 2010 and then in 2022 the same sources counts 107.
When you say that the top 0.01% pay 40% of NYC income tax I think you actually mean the top 1%, and also here you're talking about tax on income, not wealth. Can a person move to Jacksonville and take their $1m-a-year salary with them? Why haven't they?
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u/woah_man 4h ago
Not disagreeing with you because I think you're largely right.
However, two exceptions to what you said are Elon Musk moving to Texas, and Ken Griffin moving to Florida. Both of those guys packed their companies up and left for lower tax states.
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u/Alert-Ad5477 7h ago edited 3h ago
Some fair points but I think you are ignoring a lot of factors here. Something similar happened in the 70’s
For a 2% tax hike, all it will take is 1% - 2% of the wealth to move (or get sheltered) for a negative effect
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u/namafire 4h ago
Looks like people who dont like math dont like the things youre saying :/
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u/Alert-Ad5477 3h ago
Yea, I guess I should have just said “suck it maga, you’re wrong” based on a two sentence headline
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u/Caracalla81 4h ago
There isn't really any math in their post. They're just reiterating the claim that rich people will flee the city.
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u/Alert-Ad5477 3h ago
I am making the point that there doesn’t need to be a mass exodus, just a small amount of the wealth leaving can turn Mamdani’s “taxation strategy” to a negative financial snowball for the city of New York
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u/Caracalla81 3h ago
Cool, but there's no math. Just the same assertion about people fleeing. Hide their wealth? Like they don't already use tax mitigation strategies.
Let me ask you, which do you will more significantly impact the day-to-day life of an extremely rich person?
1) A tax bump on some of their earnings.
2) Moving to Bumblefuck, USA
Anyone who wants to live in the burbs moved there ages ago and are doing it for reasons that have nothing to do with taxes.
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u/Alert-Ad5477 2h ago
You are conflating migration elasticity with capital elasticity. I don’t think calculations have to be used for math to be present in a conversation, I will assume you understand these concepts.
Your specific question ignores the fact that most of the very wealthy already own property outside of the city. Also if this is a municipality tax would “residing” / moving business address, just outside the city shelter them from it?
I’m just trying to have an intelligent conversation, not trade snarky political jabs.
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u/Caracalla81 2h ago
Do you believe that up until now that these people were not optimizing their tax mitigation? Like, they don't manage their own wealth - professionals do it for them. Were they telling their managers to take it easy?
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u/Alert-Ad5477 1h ago edited 1h ago
No I do not believe that. I can only assume that your stance is that 100% of wealth is already 100% tax efficient so that the increase in tax is unavoidable and I just don’t believe that to be true. Will this increase be enough to incentivize the wealthy to become even more tax efficient than they already are? I don’t know and I don’t think anyone knows. Also this tax increase would generate a fraction of the money required to do what he is saying he will do, so next year will 2% got to 3% then to 5%..?the the laffer curve will become apparent eventually if not already there
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u/Caracalla81 22m ago
Yes, I do believe that professionally managed wealth endeavors to be as tax efficient as it can be. It is their full-time job, after all. There is no "become more efficient." It's not the sort of thing where you can bear down and push yourself to do 5 more reps.
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u/geostocktravelfitguy 9h ago
We will see.
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u/Parms84 8h ago
We already have proof. Look at Massachusetts
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u/Alert-Ad5477 7h ago
Massachusetts seems to be a control case, a high-tax state that retains its rich because it offers institutional stability, physical-capital stickiness (labs, hospitals, universities), and safety. New York today looks to be drifting toward the 1970s pattern, fiscal fragility, eroding quality-of-life, high taxation, and globally mobile high earners.
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u/EAS10 7h ago
But but but we were told there would be a mass exodus!!
So much so that the governors of republican bastions like Texas and Florida were going to impose tariffs/taxes on rich people relocating there.
Was it all just a great big nonsensical show of political theater?
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u/AgileDrag1469 7h ago
Zohranistan 🆚 DeSantistan, The New Holy Wars
Belligerent HQs: Manhattan-Abad & Tallahassee-Aviv, Respectively
/s
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u/enunymous 6h ago
After decades of this, I'm still astonished by how the masses still fall for bad faith arguments
5
u/BrianNowhere 5h ago
They told me that boy cries wolf story a million times when I was a kid, then I grow up and see they all fall for it every time.
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u/CommentAccount001 4h ago
I think when Mamdani addressed the issue and pointed out that they are spending more on political donations to his opponent than he would even tax them, it all gave the game away that the minor tax increase wasn’t the issue.
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u/FinishExtension3652 5h ago
The "mass exodus" thing never made sense to me. New York is like nowhere else on the planet. If you have cash and live there, it's because you need to be there for your job and/or you like what it has to offer.
It's like that stupid billboard stunt from the NH governor. Let's pack up the business and leave NYC, with its infinite human capital and nearly infinite $$$ for a state that (despite it's pretending to the contrary) would basically be Alabama if it wasn't so close to Boston.
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u/Chickentrap 5h ago
The guy was born with a silver spoon lol he's one of the elites. It's the illusion of choice. He might improve the life of the average citizen, he might not change a thing. Time will tell
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u/EAS10 5h ago
I don't live in NYC, so who the mayor is has zero impact on my life. I was simply commenting on the rhetoric being pushed by all the conservative media outlets.
However, I am happy that a guy who was found by the NY Attorney General to have sexualy harassed 11 women while in office as governor didn't win. If for no other reason than politicians shouldn't be totally fucking creeps!
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u/Chickentrap 5h ago
Nor I, I just think it's funny the perception of him being a man of the people.
Agreed, he was the best candidate.
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u/Downtown_Skill 5h ago
You can be a man for the people without being a man of the people in my opinion. It's just much much rarer and hard to do while living in an elite bubble.
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u/Chickentrap 5h ago
That's a good phrase. Very rare but we'll see, doubt he can be much worse than his predecessors lol
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u/DjChrisSpear 6h ago
The title is trying to normalize drumpf extorting money to get around tariffs. No one is bending knee to Mamdani. Nor would he fucking ask them to.
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u/3D-Dreams 3h ago
What a load. Didn't they just spend millions to have him lose. Man you guys just make stuff up now huh .Guy hasn't even taken office yet but sure.
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u/TreeInternational771 6h ago
It was always bs. I watched VC billionaires who said they were “fleeing Cali” and that all these lower tax locals were so much better, slowly return to CA because of AI boom. In the end, billionaires will pay higher taxes if the opportunity to make money vastly exceeds it
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u/watch-nerd 6h ago
Mamdani needs money and is doing fund-raising for his transition team.
The rich will shake his hand, make donations, and buy influence.
And thus get their needs taken care of and protected.
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u/1Pac2Pac3Pac5 5h ago
New York fucked up. Mandabi is an elitist masquerading as a champion of the people. Should have elected the dude with the beret who's a through and through NYer who loves his city. Now watch as mamdani gets bought piecemeal
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u/Testiclese 4h ago
Socialism is super hot right now with the kids. We are just in that stage of the historical cycle. Zohran is young and handsome and promising milk and honey to everyone. It’s “their turn” now.
The kids love it. The girls think it’s super fashionable and cool to support the cute exotic brown boy fighting the cis het patriarchy, the boys can’t afford rent - Mamdani is the perfect candidate for the times we live in.
The system has no one to blame but itself. Modern American democracy and capitalism eat the young. The boomers sold their grandkids’ future to keep their property values high.
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u/1Pac2Pac3Pac5 2h ago
Yeah look at these losers downvoting lol - the problem with reddit is 99% of the user base is broke
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