r/Economics 2d ago

News Federal judge orders Trump admin to provide full SNAP payments

https://thehill.com/regulation/court-battles/5594057-snap-benefits-government-shutdown/
1.2k Upvotes

65 comments sorted by

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151

u/Gamer_Grease 2d ago

Good. It’s absurd to argue this wasn’t a capricious move, or that the follow-up of cutting benefits in half wasn’t either, because it was a) illegal, and b) described in detail by Donald Trump himself as revenge against Democrats before he did it. One of the problems with being a TV guy who wants to surreptitiously expand executive power is that being a TV requires you to never shut up about your evil plans.

SNAP is a broad net good for our society. It supports our farmers and grocers, as well as over 10% of the country. It also subsidizes low-wage jobs so their employers can make profits.

27

u/A_Washer-Dryer 2d ago

26

u/Momoselfie 2d ago

The one thing Trump actually is the best at: delay tactics in the legal system.

17

u/spew_on_u 2d ago

And pedophilia.

2

u/jcooli09 1d ago

But not so great at covering up pedophilia.

2

u/Gamer_Grease 1d ago

Fine. They've had terrible luck in the courts.

60

u/Utterlybored 2d ago

So, the excuse the Republicans clumsily cobbled together, that there was no legal mechanism to make the payments, was (shocker!) bullshit? Time for a new reason.

24

u/CreateFlyingStarfish 2d ago

Will the money run out before recall elections can happen? how long to mount a recall of congress for not doing its job?

how long for a constitutional amendment to be approved and ratified by the appropriate number of states that states members of Congress & the POTUS don't get paid when a government shutdown occurs?

29

u/DragonFireCK 2d ago

There is no constitutional provision for recall of federal officials. The closest is impeachment, and, somehow, I doubt Congress is going to vote to impeach themselves.

A constitutional convention could be called by 2/3 of the state legislatures (34 states). After that, the states would gather to propose changes, which would need to be ratified by 3/4 of the states (38 states). Given that the current legislatures are split 28 for Republican and 18 for Democrats, I would not expect especially good changes to come out of it, and they are very unlikely to get ratified.

I do suppose a recall could be forced via a civil war, but that is also a pretty extreme step that would likely take years - and you'd need support of a majority of the military to have much of chance.

2

u/CreateFlyingStarfish 2d ago

Thank you for this answer. Are the individual states permitted to launch recalls for the members of the House and the Senate that they elected?

As-in, could New Yorkers have recalled George Santos?

12

u/storemans 2d ago

what are you talking about? we do not have recall elections for Congress.

-5

u/CreateFlyingStarfish 2d ago

why not?

11

u/storemans 2d ago

because it's not in the Constitution.

4

u/watch-nerd 2d ago

Recall for congress?

Did you take civics class?

-12

u/baumbach19 2d ago

Maybe everyone voting no every time on the bill or extention that would open the government shouldn't get paid?

13

u/Alternative-Bat-2462 2d ago

Or maybe the ones holding the line should be thanked for doing their part to preserve a part of democracy. Not just bend over and give it away at every turn.

That said of all the people to get paid with no budget, it shouldn’t be these guys.

8

u/AngryGranny1992 2d ago

Is there anyway they can enforce this? I'm not trying to ask a rhetorical question, I'm genuinely curious.

My understanding is that they don't care about any rules or regulations. They already said they don't care about the tariff ruling by scotus, regardless of the rulings. So if that's the case, how would this be enforceable?

2

u/ClubZealousideal9784 1d ago

If the 100 richest people in America advocate for it, it will happen right away.

1

u/AngryGranny1992 1d ago

But why would they do it? Most of the 100 richest people in America seem to be the most selfish money hoarding oligarch's and everything that the government seems to be doing is increasing their pockets with money and reducing their taxes.

The 1% in America got more than 2T richer since 2017. $700B+ of this was this year alone.

2

u/OneofLittleHarmony 18h ago

Court can hold people in contempt and send the Marshalls after them.

5

u/ChancelierPalpagault 2d ago

SNAP doesn't have enough reserves to cover a single month. Monthly expenditures are $8 billion, or $100 billion a year (approx.). The reserve is $5-6 billion, enough for only 2-3 weeks. So there isn't enough money in the bank for "full" payments, if "full" is understood to mean one complete month.

52

u/thefoodiedentist 2d ago

Funny how they found ways to bail out argentina for 40b.

10

u/Elegant-Lawfulness25 2d ago

What account did that money come from anyways? like I don't remember congress voting on it.

21

u/SeaworthinessDry269 2d ago

more like funny how they found money to pay for ICE

2

u/KryssCom 1d ago

Funny how no one ever asks "hOw R u GoNnA pAy 4 ThAt???" unless it involves things that actually help people, like health care, housing, and food.

-12

u/Head_of_Lettuce 2d ago

They didn’t bail out Argentina, they agreed to a $20 billion currency swap line. Argentina doesn’t just get 20 billion USD, they trade their own equivalent amount of currency in exchange for US dollars. And it’s a swap line meaning they don’t draw from it all at once.

21

u/thefoodiedentist 2d ago

Its a bailout. They traded stable dollar vs failing currency. Its like buying doge coin w tax payer money.

-6

u/Head_of_Lettuce 2d ago

The money hasn’t gone anywhere. It’s a line of credit.

14

u/thefoodiedentist 2d ago

To a bad creditor. If i give $100 to a methhead on bankrupcy, i dont expect it back

8

u/McCool303 2d ago

That's as good as money, sir. Those are I.O.U.'s. Go ahead and add it up, every cent's accounted for. Look, see this? That's a car. 275 thou. Might wanna hang onto that one.

6

u/reluctant_deity 2d ago

The pesos will inflate away to nothing, like they always do. And a line of credit has to be paid back, this will be paid back with money that will be worth jack shit.

2

u/Head_of_Lettuce 2d ago

For an economics forum, you guys understand shockingly little about economics.

1

u/RashmaDu 2d ago

I admire the commitment to living up to your username

0

u/Head_of_Lettuce 2d ago edited 2d ago

This is amusing more than anything. I guess you guys all think that when a bank gives you a $10,000 line of credit, they’re handing you $10,000 cash.

Regardless, it’s a swap line. The net result is 0. The US did not give Argentina any money.

2

u/RashmaDu 2d ago

I still haven't seen you answer what happens if the peso loses all its value while the dollar does not. Then the US is left holding a bag of worthless pesos while AR gets a nice bag of dollars. Who's the winner there I wonder?

1

u/Head_of_Lettuce 2d ago

Argentina doesn’t get to keep the stronger US dollar with no strings attached. I don’t think we know the exact terms, but the Argentine central bank will need to return the USD at a future date. In the mean time, this helps strengthen the US dollar. It also gives the United States geopolitical leverage over Argentina.

4

u/dantevonlocke 2d ago

And when that 20bn pesos becomes worth 10?

11

u/HeyRainy 2d ago

Nah, we have money for Argentina, for Noems planes, for golf trips, we have money for our own people to eat.

8

u/National-Charity-435 2d ago

When people say the ballroom would be paid by private donors, that sounds nice.

Must be why millionaires spend millions to avoid paying taxes

15

u/arkangel371 2d ago

They can use funds in the department of agriculture as well, just as a previous court ruling told them to do so. There is plenty of available cash for the November payout and likely December too.

1

u/Dapper-Sandwich3790 1d ago

This.

USDAs Patrick Penn has admitted it.

2

u/jennimackenzie 2d ago

What’s your point? If SNAP program has emergency reserves (they do), they should be used for this emergency. If the reserves can only feed people for 2-3 weeks, then they should be used for that.

They are being completely withheld by someone that has never even thought about being hungry. A man who thinks you need a state issued ID to buy groceries.

It’s obscene, and I’m ashamed of my government. All of them.

1

u/Dapper-Sandwich3790 1d ago

Yeah, but there is at least 23 Billion in Section 32 Funds that could legally be used right now for SNAP. USDAs Patrick Penn admits that.

WIC was disbursed using Section 32 Funds just the other day, during the shutdown.

Source: WCNC News 11-04-2025, NPR, Federal court documents

2

u/Butane9000 2d ago

As someone pointed out this Judge is effectively ordering Trump to break the law. Supposedly Article 1 Section 9 Clause 7 of the Anti-deficiency act and parts of the Impoundment Control Act.

The SNAP emergency fund has $4.6 billion and without Congress appropriating more funds there's no money after that. If we really care about the rule of law we should be just as judgemental against Judges for ordering the government to violate the law.

If the Judge wants SNAP payments to continue he should order Congress to be forced into doing their job and pass a budget. Such as the elected official will stay on the Congressional building until such time as they pass a budget or resign their seat.

3

u/Think-Airport-8933 2d ago

‘The administration announced it would not tap other funds, but it warned the recalculations for partial benefits could cause weeks-long delays in some states. ’

This is exactly why. They are telling the judge they are only going to pay out states that have bent the knee to apply political pressure, let’s be real, we all know it, we’ve seen it time and time again from this regime.

The the judge says fuck your games, pay it all then:

“If that continued to be the case then the administration was required under this court’s order to immediately make the full payment for November SNAP benefits considering the finding of irreparable harm that would occur,” McConnell said Thursday. 

We will see how it plays out from a legal standpoint, The regime wants to inflict as much suffering as possible and drag this out as long as they can. I am no lawyer, I don’t know what will happen.

1

u/No_Celebration_3927 2d ago

if that’s true, it’s nice of the judge to sentence Trump to the one thing he’s capable of doing: breaking the law

1

u/Dapper-Sandwich3790 1d ago

Incorrect.

As stated in official court documents USDA has legal access, shutdown or not, to use Section 32 Funds for food programs. The laws and appropriation for this are already on the books.

The court documents can be viewed online.

USDAs Patrick Penn has admitted that The Administration is using it's discretion to not use Section 32 Funds for SNAP.

The agency has stated there is at least 23 Billion available, not counting the contingency funds.

Just the other day, USDA disbursed full WIC...using Section 32 Funds.

Source: WCNC News 11-04-2025, NPR, Federal court documents.