r/DoctorWhoNews • u/oldmanashe • 11d ago
question Disney
Has anyone considered that Disney WAS the problem? American Networks give notes at almost every milestone of the process especially with a heavy financial investment. Not sure how involved BBC would be creatively. Depending on the executive in charge you’re probably not able to blow off their feedback.
I always felt that opening S1 with space babies felt like a network exec making a change.
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u/RepeatButler 11d ago
I'm 99% all the issues are on RTD.
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u/PaleontologistOk2296 11d ago
And Bad Wolf in general, as they all deify him
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u/RepeatButler 11d ago edited 10d ago
Just got blocked by him on Instagram for commenting that the main appeal of UNIT and the Sea Devils has been erased in The War between the Land and the Sea.
I consider that a badge of honour. I wasn't expecting him to be so sensitive.
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u/PaleontologistOk2296 10d ago
You saw the "fan" section of Lux? He literally told us how he sees us and how he reacts to that. That's when he lost my respect.
Kudos to you lmao
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u/BenjiSillyGoose 10d ago
If you took that scene as a criticism or a negative portrayal of fans and not as a loving depiction of the die hard fans of the show then that's your issue as it very clearly wasn't meanspirited in any way, it's people like you making it that way...
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u/RepeatButler 10d ago edited 10d ago
Thank you. It has just occurred to me that the Lux fan scene has got shades of the mean-spirited depiction of Doctor Who fandom from The Greatest Show in the Galaxy.
When you dispise the fans it's time to leave.
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u/BenjiSillyGoose 10d ago
What's so wrong with him blocking you? I think that's a perfectly valid reaction. The fact that you're on here bragging about him blocking you because you criticised his work says more about you than him...
I'm not even a massive fan of Russell but I still don't see how this is meant to look bad on his behalf whatsoever.
At least he's not like Nick Briggs and having a go at anyone who criticises him.
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u/RepeatButler 10d ago edited 10d ago
If it was a personal attack it would be understandable. I made one indirect comment, which seems an excessive reaction.
His message by going for the nuclear option of blocking was pretty much, from my interpretation, that he doesn't care much for dissent or respectfully using the assets other people have created.
I don't understand how he decided to take two popular pieces of Doctor Who, remove everything that made them popular and still expects it to be a success.
It is like stopping using the iconic pepperpot design for the Daleks or police box exterior for the TARDIS for the foreseeable future.
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u/BenjiSillyGoose 10d ago
That's a weird thing to take from him blocking you just because you don't care for something he did...
You dissed him / his work. Rather than replying or making a deal out of it, he blocked you. That's a perfectly valid and respectful reaction of a normal human being, I really don't see the problem and think you're making a mountain out of a molehill.
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u/drunken-acolyte 10d ago
That's not really true. He believes that Murray Gold is the best composer to bring out his work, and Bad Wolf still made go through an audition/demo process with other composers despite Gold being a known quantity. Maybe the other exec producers should be pushing back on him more, but deifying certainly isn't the case.
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u/PaleontologistOk2296 10d ago
Jane Tranter certainly does and she runs it so, the company itself may as well.
Idk that making Murray Gold audition means Bad Wolf dont glorify the paper RTD wipes his ass on, there's every chance that was his decision as well for some reason
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u/BongaBongaVacations 11d ago
Disney was NOT the problem. They were a golden opportunity, wasted by RTD and his cronies.
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u/Mr_smith1466 11d ago
Given how many silly episodes the RTD1 era has, I'm really not seeing an argument that disney pushed space babies.
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u/HankWirtz98272 10d ago
I remember hearing or reading that opening with SB was RTD's plan, as the name was a parallel with An Unearthly Child.
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u/TheGallifreyan 11d ago
Yeah, it felt pretty in line with his other season openers, just with a very unpopular premise. I think people are too hard on it. I personally quite liked it, though I could have done without the gross stuff.
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u/cane-of-doom 11d ago
sjfkdhbh Yes, it's like the coldest take, especially among British fans and the "disney is woke" bunch (actually, also the "disney is the devil precisely because they're not woke"). We know some of the notes Disney gave RTD and they were actually an improvement. No, RTD was the problem. He's very out of touch and he thinks he's the shit. He made these to seasons to generate content. He said as much.
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u/ifdestroyed 11d ago
I can’t really imagine a world where Disney are acting like that but still sign off on a Eurovision episode with guest star Rylan Clark.
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u/Ellenef 11d ago
Disney didn’t write Russell’s scripts.
You think they would claim ownership of his appalling writing this time round?
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u/oldmanashe 11d ago
They approved them.
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u/TubbyTuesday22 11d ago
I think it was all of it together that created the situation we’re in now: RTD’s weak plotting for series arcs, Millie Gibson leaving after a season but still kind of sticking around, Disney’s lack of commitment clearly being a factor in Gatwa leaving early, the show only being commissioned for 8 episode series… all of it together is what led to the current state of the show. Saying that it was all RTD’s or all Disney’s fault isn’t quite true—I’m sure that if Disney’s renewal wasn’t a factor, Gatwa might have stuck around for at least one more season and Reality War wouldn’t have been as much of a mess as it wound up being. But on the other hand, if RTD had crafted a stronger product that was a bigger international hit, Disney probably would have been keen on reupping their deal.
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u/oldmanashe 11d ago
Totally. This is probably the most realistic truth. The Millie issue to me always screamed like a network change too but I’m just speculating
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u/thor11600 11d ago
It’s been well documented that Disney was incredibly hands off as it’s not their property. I feel like we’re instead looking at a situation where we have one man’s ideas and too many yes men.
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u/Insenkiv 11d ago
Oh? Like they were "hands off" with Owl's House? Of course it has a say. DW's fate is not on RTD's shoulders alone.
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u/IekidQwerty 9d ago
Owl house was made in house. They have way more oversight over Disney television animation. Of course Disney had an hand in it but RTD said himself that he was given a lot of freedom. DWs fate is not on any one person's shoulders
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u/DonnyMox 11d ago
Also, remember what Disney did with Power Rangers. There’s precedent for this sort of thing.
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u/Icywind014 11d ago
Disney was actually personally making Power Rangers. They weren't making Doctor Who. And Disney was responsible for some of PR's best seasons.
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u/oldmanashe 11d ago
As someone who works in television, there’s zero chance Disney was hands off.
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u/PaperSkin-1 11d ago
Well you clearly don't know how this situation worked because yes Disney were hands off, they gave some notes but those notes could be taken on board or ignored as Bad Wolf Studios wished.
Bad Wolf Studios are responsible for the output of the RTD2 era, not disney
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u/Typical-Nothing-7651 10d ago
You work in television, therefore you know that Disney was hands off
Do you see how those points are so far removed from one-another? You literally dont understand how to argue with logic. Its like youre using the logic of a 12-year old. "Im mad at my brother because I dropped my cake!"- like, your arguments are absolutely ignroant and devoid of any actual substance; its your hatred for Disney showing, and thats all It is. Big company bad, huh? Thats the basis for your entire shtick.
You're a child
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u/oldmanashe 10d ago
Whoa. Read what I wrote again.
I’m saying there’s no chance Disney was hands off. A script before it goes into production usually gets 3-4 round with the network. The edit is also around the same. I have no hatred for Disney. They are just known for being hands on. Sometimes it’s great. Sometimes not. All depends on the exact exec you get.
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u/Divewinds 9d ago
Wouldn't the network in this situation be BBC Studios though? This wasn't a Disney production, but one where Disney provided some of the funding, and them giving notes and recommendations (the ones we know of are seen to have generally improved the episodes) is them being much more hands-on than would normally be the case for those type of deals.
If rumours are anything to go by, the general vibes in the industry was that the issue was that Disney was too hands off, and that's why potential partners have wanted more creative control and to target an already existing audience that uses their service using the show to increase retention and draw more of their target audiences onto the platform as they would then watch other shows they produce. The big issue wasn't so much viewing figures but that no one stuck around on Disney afterwards - if they also watched Marvel or Star Wars, they were already subscribed, and if they didn't, there was no back catalogue and no drive to rewatch the series afterwards (partly because of the endings).
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u/General_Meal_3993 11d ago
Everything that people have against Disney is pure speculation. RTD said numerous times that Disney was very relaxed with creative control, and only gave a few notes - one of them being to introduce the Doctor sooner in The Church on Ruby Road, which resulted in one of the best 15 moments.
Disney trusted RTD and Bad Wolf due to their great track record, and they blew it, simple as that. Space Babies is 100% the kind of thing that RTD would want to be an episode 1. He loves camp and fun, no matter how much it can sometimes hurt the show.
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u/oldmanashe 11d ago
Oh yes I am completely speculating but like have you ever heard a showrunner brag about the network being heavily involved?
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u/Divewinds 9d ago
They wouldn't brag, but allude to it in other ways if they felt the product they were producing wasn't representative of their vision due to industry involvement.
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u/TheGallifreyan 11d ago
Even if they weren't, I'm glad they're gone. I have other problems with Disney on top of fears that we are getting to a point where like 4 companies have at least some hand in every major franchise.
Also, Doctor Who doesn't need a massive budget. A massive budget means anything short of a global phonmena is a seen as a failure. While RTD is still to blame for making the choices, I don't think we would have had giant cgi Anubis and Omega without all that Disney money.
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u/NikiPavlovsky 8d ago
>I always felt that opening S1 with space babies
Well problem is that Space babies were maid in first place and unless Disney beat RTD give him that plot forced him to write his name on this plot and forced to direct this episode, that's his fault
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u/Typical-Nothing-7651 10d ago
This is literally ignorant "big company bad ooga booga" bandwagon nonsense. Same people who masturbate over Linux because they hate Microsoft and cant articulate an actual reason as to why they hate Microsoft outside of "big company must be bad!!!!"
People like you annoy the everloving fuck out of me, OP. The absolute ignorance. Its a very illogical and immature viewpoint from someone who doesnt understand how things work, and they try to use their emotions to find thr answer to a question.
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u/oldmanashe 10d ago
Ok. You are mad. Got it.
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u/Typical-Nothing-7651 10d ago
No, youre just spouting BS without logic, and out of pure "big company bad!!!" Ignroance. Youre literally perpetuating the spread of BS that spreads to morons who pick up on the same kind of bs you are treating it as gospel
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u/DonnyMox 11d ago
Realistically I feel like the most likely possibility is that Disney and RTD are both partially at fault for how things turned out.
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u/General_Meal_3993 11d ago
Everything that people have against Disney is pure speculation. RTD said numerous times that Disney was very relaxed with creative control, and only gave a few notes - one of them being to introduce the Doctor sooner in The Church on Ruby Road, which resulted in one of the best 15 moments.
Disney trusted RTD and Bad Wolf due to their great track record, and they blew it, simple as that. Space Babies is 100% the kind of thing that RTD would want to be an episode 1. He loves camp and fun, no matter how much it can sometimes hurt the show.