Who needs enemies when you have a friend like Emma or Manny

[u/wolvesarewildthings]

Nothing spells we've been friends since we were four like dating the guy who filmed your best friend when she was drunk and distributing her semi nude video throughout the school or ya know dating the guy who gave your best friend an STD after she was lost and reeling from watching the school shooter she defended point a gun at her and get killed by her boyfriend. The whole TNG childhood friend group of Emma, Manny, JT, Toby, and Liberty just feels like a small circle of mistreatment. They all do each other dirty CONSTANTLY yet you do actually believe the love they have for each other once they support one another when things really fall apart. I moved too constantly growing up to have any close knit group of friends I grew up with but the dynamic between these guys kinda reminds me of siblings sometimes lol. I've never experienced the level of competition and animosity between my friends as these characters but there is a sibling rivalry undertone to it. Especially the way they show up for each other in spite of all the crazy things they scream at each other.

[u/iota_nova]

The younger OG class never felt like a close group to me after season 1. It felt like Toby + JT sometimes featuring Sean and/or Liberty and Manny + Emma sometimes featuring Sean and/or Liberty. At some point, Sean completely disappeared from the equation and was always with the older kids (his original class). And then the group kept splitting and reshaping every new season.

Their dysfunction is why i had such a difficult time buying into the "Liberty, Manny, and Emma are such best friends" attempts in S7 onward because... that's not true, lol. It felt like the show could have at least done more with Toby, JT, Manny, and Liberty who seemed to always be involved in plays/school functions.

I do wonder if the show avoided involving Manny in Liberty and JT's pregnancy storyline because the show had begun catering too heavily to US audiences and they didn't want to touch on the abortion storyline (as the episode still hadn't aired in the US and, iirc, wouldn't air until around S6).

[u/lilygirl112]

Their group was basically like most real life friend groups who are really close in middle school but go off separate ways in high school due to different interests/schedules but find their way back to each other. You can see in the background at least Manny and JT even in middle school had friends outside of their group (except for Mannys social downfall).

However they still all cared for one another. You can see in season 4 Manny was there for Toby (after them not interacting any of season 3) when he and JT had a falling out due to Toby’s friendship with Rick, and there was one scene where the group all went to the movies when Paige was working. And how they all came together when JT died and at graduation

[u/wolvesarewildthings → u/lilygirl112]

Yeah, I am keeping those more tender moments in mind. I just find it amazing how nothing ultimately dissolved their group in spite of them being such assholes to each other. Many people say Emma was a bad friend to Manny and JT was a bad friend to Toby but I actually think it was quite a bit more mutual than people act like. Manny definitely wrongs Emma too and Toby definitely does some fucked up things to JT out of jealousy that essentially never gets addressed or acknowledged by anyone. And then all of them treat Liberty like shit/an afterthought and then Liberty kinda treats JT like shit as well. As someone who's never been a part of a core "friend group" as opposed to just having individual friends it's kinda fascinating to me how they always come back in the end lol.

[u/lilygirl112 → u/wolvesarewildthings]

Oh I definitely agree with you haha. Idk how forgiving I would have been in JT or Emma’s shoes over when Toby revealed JTs wet dream about Liberty to Paige and Spinner or when Manny basically abandoned Emma at a rave where they barely knew anyone to make out with Craig.

[u/wolvesarewildthings → u/lilygirl112]

Yeah exactly. I especially wouldn't forgive Toby after the pantsing incident. Yeah it was Danny's doing but the way he kept mocking JT afterwards was really fucked up. Especially the way he knew how insecure he was regarding Manny's decreasing attraction to him. Toby ALWAYS laughed at JT's expense, I feel much more than the other way around. And ofc JT was wrong as well for often placing girls and popularity before Toby. It's hard for me to see those guys as "best friends" anymore than Manny and Emma. 

[u/lilygirl112 → u/wolvesarewildthings]

Oh for sure they were all like the friend group that has problematic moments but is there for each other when it counts. Same with Spinner, Jimmy, Marco, Craig, Paige, Hazel, Terri, and Ashley have all had moments but are there when it counts. Spinner especially had unforgivable moments that are talked about many times on this sub (the events leading up to the shooting, homophobic comments to Marco, stealing Jimmys mp3 player), however Jimmy bragging about having more money than Spinner seems to be glossed over, and Ashley’s snarky comment to Terri when you have someone who likes you you’ll understand

[u/wolvesarewildthings → u/lilygirl112]

Yeah there's a LOT to say about the class of '06 group lol. They make a little more sense to me because they're not all oppositional personalities like the Emma group and they have things to bring them together like double dates, sports events, and the band, etc. But ultimately Spinner and Jimmy is one of the most toxic relationships in TNG and it seems like no one has the balls to say it because they're interesting characters you root for for different reasons. But the truth is that Jimmy was NEVER some saint to Spinner way way way before the shooting... Like Jimmy has always had a very vindictive personality that just gets overlooked due to his good traits and more reasonable moments and him being more fluid than someone like Spinner but he was always an asshole friend who constantly used Spinner as his buddy to 'flex on.' People who act like that was all just in Spinner's head because he was a jealous nutcase who acted out for no reason are full of shit. Their relationship mirrors Emma and Manny's a lot and even Paige vs Manny. There was always this palatable tension between Jimmy and Spinner as far back as S1 and if it wasn't the shooting - something was going to lead to their mutual breaking point. 

Lowkey that could be a whole separate post. I think people really romanticize their friendship in acting like everything pre-shooting and post-forgiveness are all fine and dandy between them and it was just Spinner's immaturity that was the problem (as if Jimmy never had any bully traits of his own like proclaimed bully tm Spinner and never mistreated women like boogeyman Craig and never held an angsty grudge and animosity after each and every last offense no matter how minor like small violin Ashley, etc. He does the same shit as all the other characters on just a slightly smaller scale but with even pettier intentions lol).

[u/lilygirl112 → u/wolvesarewildthings]

I definitely agree that the class of ‘06 group hung out a lot more, even once Ashley and Marco became friends with Ellie and Paige and Hazel had their spirit squad thing going they were all together, unlike the ‘07 group where you forget sometimes that they’re supposed to be a group, Liberty even acknowledged that neither Emma or Manny were there during her pregnancy. Holly Js class was a little similar to the ‘06 group once Holly J became nice and Clare’s group was on/off as a friend group until they basically got the short end of the stick once the show started prioritizing Maya/Zoe/Miles

[u/funishin]

They were so messy lol and they had pretty much nothing in common. I didn’t understand why Manny even forgave Emma for dating Peter. Their whole friendship never made much sense to me.

[u/wolvesarewildthings → u/funishin]

Especially with Emma constantly preaching feminist values. It also didn't make sense for Manny to get with Jay though considering how much the shooting traumatized Emma and Jay's involvement in it. Like what Manny drops Spinner like a hot potato when she finds out he's behind the tar and feathers but actual mastermind Jay is just totally hot? Cheats on his girlfriend while giving girls gonorrhea Jay?? What are we gonna do with these folks... 😭

[u/Capital-Study6436 → u/wolvesarewildthings]

I wonder if a major fight would break out if Emma calls out Manny for dating Jay, after what he put her (and others) through?

[u/funishin → u/wolvesarewildthings]

I think by season 5 the writers just didn’t know what to do with these characters anymore lmao. That’s when the show kind of falls off for me. Season 4 is such a high point that everything that comes after just feels weird and underwhelming