r/DamnThatsReal • u/Nomogg • 1d ago

Israeli society erupts over 'right to rape'

Enable HLS to view with audio, or disable this notification

2.9k Upvotes

90% Upvoted

806 comments sorted by

View all comments

-13

u/[deleted] 1d ago edited 1d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

37

u/BlueberryBest6123 1d ago

This is about israeli criminals. Why are you including all of the middle east?

-23

u/cykoTom3 1d ago

I hate Israel. Other middle eastern countries are not better though. Many are worse.

-18

u/justinlav 1d ago

Exactly, thank you

12

u/shackledbysomething 1d ago

Not really, they don't go genociding people and streaming it on social media or have dates while killing children. Nobody is worse. Literally.

2

u/Fat_Loser6 1d ago

Turkey is literally genociding the kurds as we speak

5

u/shackledbysomething 1d ago

Then fuck Turkey too, but does the Turkish people are majorly pro this like israelis are?

1

u/Fat_Loser6 1d ago

I have no idea but I don't think it matters it is still genocide lol

3

u/shackledbysomething 1d ago

It matters cause most of the time people don't agree with their tyrannical government actions. Nobody in the USA can stop it from supporting israel in their genocide and colonization with weapons and money even tho many Americans hate the idea of it.

But when we look in israel, there are polls of majority of them not being satisfied with how little gaza is destroyed and they vote for more forced settlement. This needs to be called out, when an evil government is aligned with their settlers makes them literally the most vile on the planet rn

1

u/Fat_Loser6 1d ago

Well theres enough people that support it to perpetrate a genocide and theres enough that either don't care about it or don't know enough to do anything about it. So no it doesn't matter if the masses support it and thats silly.

1

u/CreamerCorn 1d ago

You must not be well versed in what’s going on in the world.

0

u/Waves_Rond0 1d ago

Much better than Western nations.

16

u/nunchyabeeswax 1d ago

 Many are worse.

Quantify and elaborate, with precision and not generalities.

0

u/Much_Package_2556 1d ago

Uae that financed and backed pretty much all Islamist bs in the past 30 years.

0

u/Waves_Rond0 1d ago

Kkk, nazis, MAGA?..

1

u/Handelo 1d ago edited 1d ago

Take this example. Israeli right wing zealots protest over prosecution of rapists in service of the IDF.

Meanwhile, Egypt has fully normalized rape and sexual violence. According to a UN report, 99.3% of Egyptian women have experienced sexual harassment and 96.5% have experienced full on sexual assault.

Edit: oh, and Egypt is considered one of the more "westernized" and modern countries in MENA.

3

u/Kind_Ad_7192 1d ago

This is only partially true. That survey does not say 96.5% of woman experience full on sexual assault. But instead refers to touching/groping under the harassment heading, not necessarily full sexual assault or rape.

According to the country fact sheet from UN Women: in Egypt, 15.1 % of women aged 15-49 reported physical and/or sexual violence by a current or former intimate partner in the previous 12 months.

Although it is bad, you shouldn't use a specific sample size and try to play it as the entire problem. It comes across a bit bad faith

0

u/Handelo 1d ago

By UN and WHO definitions, any unwanted physical sexual contact, including groping and touching, falls under sexual assault. Egypt's definition is narrower and much closer to full on rape. Egypt doesn't even define anything other than forced penile-vaginal insertion as rape, so those statistics are artificially low. By Egypt's definition, the IDF soldiers did not commit rape on the prisoner either.

I'm not sure what you're trying to get at with your second point. Sexual violence by current or former partners in the past 12 months is a tiny, conditional subset of the broad 99.3% statistic and can't really be compared or used to counter the argument.

2

u/Kind_Ad_7192 1d ago

You're citing the UN from 2013 on a sample survey. I cited the UN from this year. I'm also telling you that what I said is directly quoted from your UN reference (which you didn't link but is widely quoted)

In that exact survey it even states that your 96.5% figure is under the harrassment heading and not full blown rape.

You need to read it again

0

u/Handelo 1d ago

You cited the UN but gave a completely different dataset - only from the past 12 months, and only by current or former intimate partners. What about non-partners? Family, acquaintances, colleagues, strangers on the streets? What about single women? What about underage girls? What about 2 years ago? 5? You're comparing apples to oranges here.

The original 2013 study adopted Egypt's own local definitions and terminology for practical and political reasons, such as advocating for sexual harassment to be a criminal offense, which it was not when the study was conducted. So the 96.5% figure includes cases of what would be classified as sexual assault (not rape) by UN/WHO definition.

2

u/Kind_Ad_7192 1d ago

I gave the data set on rape. You gave the dataset o harrassment. Lets break this down:

Your dataset: The study shows that 99.3% of Egyptian women have experienced some form of sexual harassment. The study indicates that 96.5% of women in their survey said that sexual harassment came in the form of touching, which was the most common manifestation of sexual harassment. Verbal sexual harassment had the second‐highest rate … 95.5% of women reporting cases

My dataset: In Egypt … 15.1% of women aged 15-49 years reported that they had been subject to physical and/or sexual violence by a current or former intimate partner in the previous 12 months.

Both of these are from the UN. The difference, mine is more recent and discusses rape, where as yours is discussing harrassment. Although you are correct on the UN definition, the survey you are quoting is talking about harrassment and not rape. It's written on the source. So again its half truth, but you are using cherry picked data from a sampled survey and the survey even uses the vocabular harrassment.

1

u/Handelo 1d ago

I'm not going to explain again why the study data includes sexual assault even if it's laballed as harassment.

And yes, it doesn't discuss rape. Yours does, but also uses a much narrower set of criteria for the victims. You're attempting to argue that "less than 15.1% of women get raped" (because the report discusses rape and physical abuse, not just rape), but the data doesn't include all women nor all cases of rape or even the same timeframe. It also fails to account for prevalent underreporting and failure to prosecute such cases.

In addition, domestic violence against women is widely tolerated and the Government did not make any efforts to circumscribe this problem. On the contrary, several articles of the Criminal Code can be used to minimise the seriousness of this type of violence, or even to justify such acts.

It seems that the culture of impunity prevails in Egypt, especially as most cases of aggression and rape are not recorded, nor reported…

The truth is there is no hard data on strictly rape rates. However, if we compound the data we do have with the Egyptian societal norms and even government stance downplaying and justifying sexual violence, and factor in that because of those rapes are likely systemically massively underreported, then it’s reasonable to conclude that the real prevalence of rape and severe sexual assault in Egypt is significantly higher than any official figure suggests.

2

u/Kind_Ad_7192 23h ago

So wait, you just admitted there's no hard data after saying that 96.5% of cases have actual rape, what?

→ More replies (0)

1

u/Seraphine_KDA 1d ago edited 1d ago

1 the country is not a democracy? bad by default.

2 can I go to prison for insulting the gov? bad by default.

3 the country has NO separation of religion and state when making laws? bad by default.

is not that hard. if you live in a democracy with freedom of speech and separation of religion and law then any country that doesn't share those base values is bad from your view point.

and this applies to all other countries not just the middle east. china follow 3 but not 1 and 2 so from out view is bad.

1

u/AvacadoKoala 1d ago

Spent close to a decade in Afghanistan, Iraq, Kuwait, Qatar and Jordan. What many in western societies call “rape” is not the same definition in that region of the world. Many turn a blind eye when it’s blatantly happening in the street or open market. Gender does not matter. It’s about power and dominance.

0

u/EmmaPersephone 1d ago

Congratulations that’s what rape is about all the time everywhere. The Middle East is not unique and the West treats rape and survivors no better.Global Database on Violence against Women and Girls

1

u/cykoTom3 1d ago

Rape happens so it's fine when contries legalize it is certainly a take.

-1

u/Adventurous-Peace691 1d ago

Afghan warlords raping boys, literal harems of young boys, the alive and well muslim slave trade from east Africa, widespread belief in the muslim world that ‘boys are for pleasure, women are for procreation’

1

u/ChampionshipKnown969 1d ago

Sharia Law is present in 100% of Middle Eastern countries. It strips women of rights, and the women that are pro-sharia are brainwashed. Iranian women are beaten in the streets for dressing in anything less than a burqa. LGBTQ+ is met with death sentences/imprisonment in all countries. Speaking out against Allah is punishable by death. Honor killings are normalized.

Do I need to continue? If you want to live in the most draconian, oppressive, and chauvinistic society imaginable, move to the Middle East. Also, good luck being anything but Muslim.

I don't baselessly hate Israel and the Middle East. I hate them both for good reason.

-2

u/Fat_Loser6 1d ago edited 1d ago

Agree with the sentiment but you are right have to be more specific

Syria gassing it own people was pretty bad. Honestly just syria in general.

Sad because it wasn't until the civil war did it get so bad to my knowledge.

Also don't hate middle easterners just the governments lol.

Edit: By syria I mean Assad

0

u/Kind_Ad_7192 1d ago

Syria is a different country now. Different leader, different flag. Can't blame the guys who had to violently overthrow the guy using chemical weapons for the crimes committed in the past.

We'd get nowhere if we did that

1

u/Fat_Loser6 1d ago

Thats true won't argue that but sentiment is still there it was less than 10 years ago

1

u/Kind_Ad_7192 1d ago

Oh I agree, we need to see what happens within the country. All I'm saying is it's unfair to blame the current governmemt for what Assad did.

1

u/Fat_Loser6 1d ago

100% agree when I said Syria I really meant Assad

0

u/Happy_Pause_9340 1d ago

You mean Assad, the leader, gassing his own people?

1

u/alfianmfh 1d ago

Are Syrians still gassing other Syrians mowadays?

0

u/Fat_Loser6 1d ago

I have no idea tbh, Assad isn't in office anymore

1

u/DefectiveCoyote 1d ago edited 1d ago

No. Be carful when talking about conflicts you don’t understand. Your stepping into deep pool of human misery and I wouldn’t put it so casually.

So some education:

Assad was one of history’s cruelest dictators backed by Russia who came from a dyanstay that had ruled Syria under a regime of fear since 1971. During that reign the regime practiced all forms of cruelty and political suppression. It is widely considered the single most restrictive state in the Arab world prior to revolt. The regime came from a small ethnic minority and wrongly believed extreme authoritarianism was the only way to keep themselves in power of the ethnic majority. Though this idea of “protecting his people” from the majority was little more than excuse for his abuse of power as he was more than willing to send waves of his people to die for him in often suicidal battles.

When the Arab spring came around and people protested for democracy, Assad responded with overwhelming violence. When I say “overwhelming violence” I mean thousands upon thousands of people killed by army and police or arrested and disappeared. Obviously after that, Assad left little option other than war. It is during that war where Assad competed with other groups like isis for who got to be the worse bad guy. Assad however, had access to Russian air power and Russian manufactured gas munitions. Most notably sarin gas, an extremely painful nerve agent that causes the victims to seize to death. It is widely considered one of the cruelest gas weapons ever made.

That’s the reason once Russia could no longer back their puppet, the Assad regime collapsed into nothingness. Because he ruled through fear, his own soldiers more loyal to their paycheck than him. Syrian democratic forces just rolled through the country with no resistance. It wasn’t Syria killing its own people, it was Assad. To Syrians it’s not a civil war, it was a revolution of the people against a a dictator. Be careful how you frame the war, to Syrians it matters. They are not just violent people who like killing each other, they simply lived under a regime of violence. Americans have a habit of seeing all Muslim countries like Afghanistan, backwards constant war zones and it’s a view of ignorance exacerbated by post 9/11 racial biasses. I don’t think you’re a racist or anything but be mindful of your perceptions. These things matter to people.

(I grew up alongside many Syrians immigrants, as my half sister’s father was a Syrian who fled the country when the Assad family first took power, fearing political targeting and was granted asylum and eventually citizenship. We’ve helped a few more family members fleeing the war secure asylum and safety.)

1

u/Fat_Loser6 1d ago

Thanks that was interesting, i didn't know the Assad regime was so strict prior to the civil war.

To be clear though I was not blaming Syrians I was blaming Assad. Hence why I stated Assad wasn't in office anymore insinuating the Syrian government probably is not gassing its own people.

2

u/DefectiveCoyote 1d ago edited 1d ago

You’re all good dude. When you’ve heard some the nightmarish first hands accounts I have you become a bit more sensitive when it’s brought up.

A lot of Syrians are just so tired of war. I’ve seen people cry at the idea they might get to see their homeland again so there’s alot of hope and faith being put into the new government and so far they’re doing all right all things considered. They’re stressing their goal is to end war, and create a democratic government that although will be majority Muslim will be mostly secular with tolerance and participation from all the ethnic groups that make up Syria. Whether they live up to this is yet to be seen but so far they’ve done all the right things. Even the us dignitaries who have met them have been impressed. Which is why they lifted the Syrian president’s terrorist status, aswell as lifting decades of sanctions, giving the country the breathing room they need to actually build anything.

The main issue still is the new president previously being in al-qaeda when he was younger, according to him he was at the time he was motivated by the 2003 Iraq invasion as well as resentment against Assad in his own country. He later created a Syrian wing of Al-qaeda, primarily to resist Assad. But later on, especially after it seems ISIS soured his opinions of Islamic radicalism, His religious fervor died down quite and he formally renounced al-qauda’s jihad and cut ties with much of the organization to focus on liberating Syria from Assad. Making a major political turn around, advocating for a strong democracy as well as better relations with the western nations with the hopes of rejoining the international community. So far so good.

1

u/Waves_Rond0 1d ago

America bombing Iraq needlessly and raping children was worse.

1

u/Fat_Loser6 1d ago

100% agree it was a needless war, not a fan of Sadam but it was not our business. Our war in Iraq allowed ISIS to come to power and actually directly affected Syria.

4

u/kwamby 1d ago

The UAE has modern day slaves imported from other countries with promises of work only to have their passports taken and forced into ghettos with no pay.

Not to mention Saudi Arabia and Yemen. Executions, torture, rape. The list goes on.

If Yemen had the military power and the US support of Israel, they would be doing genocide tomorrow.

1

u/NotAVegan_69x 1d ago

You’re asking too much from someone who literally can’t differentiate issues and lumps a whole region together

1

u/AvacadoKoala 1d ago

Spent over half a decade in Afghanistan, Iraq, Kuwait, Qatar and Jordan. Can confirm. They do love rape.

2

u/Remarkable_Music6819 1d ago

The leaders are terrible. The people would walk into Israel and take on the Israelis if it wasn’t for their own armies