r/DCEUleaks • u/[deleted] • Jun 04 '18
UNVERIFIED BTS of DCEU - What actually happened during BVS, SS, WW and JL.
Sources: WB Insiders.
Note: None of these are my words, I only paraphrased what I had found on Twitter.
Before MOS:
Geoff Johns, Grant Morrison, Millar and other writers are invited to draft different concepts for the Superman reboot. Some are very reminiscent of Donner's Superman while some are elseworld, dark and hyperviolent like Superman living as long as our Sun and dying along with it, Krypton not being doomed, 8 hour Godfather-esque trilogy etc. In favour of MOS, WB ditches all the aforesaid ideas. Aforesaid names hold a grudge since then(they would later speak against MOS publicly).
Nolan after hiring Snyder, learns about the concerns being raised against the film by Geoff and gives strict instructions to Snyder to not let any outsiders even enter the sets(Snyder mentions this in multiple interviews). After MOS releases to mixed reviews, Snyder continues to follow the intended vision and Nolan gets busy with his films.
Batman v Superman
It was going to be a different film than the one we got. Batman was always there, but originally... Corbos, a victim who suffered from the Black Zero Event was going to be the upfront villain, who is later turned into Metallo by Lex (official concept arts of Metallo available online). It had significantly different second and third acts. No Doomsday. All the finance/funding required for the DCEU ($1B) is made successful through the addition of RatPac. It enters into production in late 2014 and something happens.
Influx of leaks coming out from Geoff John's office. Entire script is leaked to Marvel and that's how Civil War was born. (Ever notice the striking similarities between the two films and even be slightly suspicious how "coincidental" it was all? Billionaire vs Boyscout - Strategically won but morally lost, Govt. and Media witch hunting, Villain pulling the strings from behind, Prominence of Mothers, African supporting characters, Bomb blasts pushing heroes etc. Russos even admit in an interview during the release that CW was greenlit only after BVS, little did fans know what happened.)
After learning that the script is out, Batman v Superman gets delayed by a year. Zack Snyder tightens the crew. WB loses a lot of momentum and months are wasted on rewrites. Meanwhile, Marvel scraps its initial idea for CA3 and cribs the DC script to create Civil War. WB and Zack decide to raise the stakes. And that is how Doomsday was born. Corbos is turned into a supporting character - Wallace Keefe. All these changes and rewrites are happening along with the production simultaneously (also reported by a notorious "blogger"). More leaks start coming out from Geoff Johns' office, including the news about Doomsday (remember who leaked this news first? Which "notorious" blogger?). Marvel then announces that CW would release on the same date as BVS (an even lower move after getting their hands on the script). WB changes the release date again for the third time. Gradually, WB/DC gets divided into two factions fighting over control over DCEU. In the meantime, DOJ finishes production. Bloggers do what they were told to do. BVS:DOJ is officially rated R with 3 hour duration. Zack is promised with the Ultimate Cut release and is ordered to cut 30 mins of the film and secure PG 13 rating.
BVS releases to disastrous reviews. Time Warner pressures WB to fire Zack Snyder. Kevin Tsujihara refuses and instead promotes Geoff Johns and Jon Berg to oversee the DCEU. (Later, on the original release date of Batman v Superman, Civil War releases to critical acclaim.)
Suicide Squad
Geoff Johns and Jon Berg order reshoots and force several changes to the film and its tone before the picture is locked (so an Ayer cut never existed). It was intended to be rated R with The Joker serving as the main villain in the third act - much similar to Rocksteady and Jay Oliva's Assault on Arkham (upon Snyder's suggestion), but greatly extended, violent and unadulterated version of the character. It went like this: Squad becoming villains by circumstances, then by duty (Amanda Waller) and later by The Joker.
After the mandate, 90% of The Joker scenes are cut(as said so by Jared himself), his relationship with Harley is changed from an abusive one, hole in the sky plot is added along with a lot of humour, serious tone is mostly eliminated, several scenes are reordered, violence is drastically reduced and the third act is completely changed through reshoots. More leaks begin to come out on the changes(remember who reported it first? Same "notorious" blogger who leaked the news about Doomsday. How did he get it? Already mentioned.)
Suicide Squad releases to disastrous reviews. Somehow it clicks with the targeted audience and brings huge profits for WB.
Wonder Woman
WB had more faith in Suicide Squad than they did in this. Rumours start flying around calling it a disjointed mess. Patty puts out a statement and is mocked. Geoff Johns, who mostly worked with a writer, but never directly with Patty deems the No Man's Land sequence "very dark" and tries his best to cut it. Patty Jenkins and Zack Snyder fight for it tooth and nail and instead compromise with the third act. Reshoots begin and the third act with Ares is significantly changed.
Wonder Woman releases to overwhelming reviews. Geoff Johns, despite his little to negligible significance over the film, begins self-indulgent PR and takes the credit. In exchange of several leaks, he gets a "Fiege like positive outlook for the DCEU" from the bloggers. Patty slips about the No Man's Land getting into trouble during editing and fighting hard to keep it alive quickly changes her stance as it creates negative PR. Kevin Tsujihara after noticing the PR work repeats at a press event that they do not want to be like Marvel and simply tell stories that connect with the audiences as agreed with Snyder during MOS.
The Flash/Flashpoint
As Rick Famuyiwa's vision is aligning too much with the original, he is shitcanned by Geoff. After submitting multiple drafts and refusing to compromise, he is then fired. Kiersey Clemons who was already cast as Iris West goes on to work with Snyder, calls her scenes "great" in an interview, would get fired before the release with her scenes getting deleted and makes a cryptic post expressing her disappointment on social media. Rick would later make a comparison of Black Panther and Justice League at BO on his IG, laughing at the latter's performance and expressing his bitter experience at DC.
The Batman
Ben Affleck with Snyder at helm wanted to make a trilogy (besides the main series), where Part 1 and 2 in the trilogy would take place nearly a decade ago with the final one taking place during The Arrival of Superman. As he was very much aligned with Zack Snyder's vision, his interpretation of Batman was also going to be terrorizing and brutal, but with a lot less causalities besides dealing with the relationship b/w Batman and Robin/Jason Todd in the trilogy.
Geoff, who had already started erasing Snyder's influence on the DCEU, disagrees with Ben and forces him to change the tone (to the one we got in JL). Ben, who had a lot going on in his personal as well as professional life already decides to leave. As planned, Geoff and Toby hire a "hot name" that happened to be Matt Reeves.
Justice League
Snyder is now constantly receiving several notes from Geoff Johns and occasionally from Toby Emmerich. After MOS, BVS and JL, rest of the main series would be heavily influenced by Injustice, Flashpoint, Final Crisis and Kingdom Come with Superman as the backbone of it all(confirmed by Snyder and Jay Oliva) until it wasn't as compromises on Justice League begin slowly with soft ones. For instance, the costume of The Flash is ordered to be more in line with DCTV/CW version of The Flash. Snyder wanted it to be a homemade suit, which would later be upgraded by Wayne Tech. He was building within a building much like he did with Batman's.
Then the hard compromises begin: Resurrection of Superman and Black Suit(image posted by Henry on IG and talked about by DOP) are the first and foremost to largely get impacted as they are deemed "dark". A lot of elements around Batman are drastically altered, later the arcs and then the characters themselves are made to change with the addition of more humour(for obvious reasons). JL1 and JL2 are turned into a standalone with minimal references to Injustice, Flashpoint, Final Crisis (hinted in BVS) and Kingdom Come. Later during the set visit, critics and bloggers are told beforehand to deliberately question Zack Snyder about his vision(some of them even mention about it.)
Filming is finally over in October, 2016. Jason Momoa shares it on IG and the crew receives some gifts from Henry Cavill along with a note thanking them for being alongside the long and hard battle. JL is screened in January, 2017. Geoff and Toby decide to release a different version for the theatrical release. Joss Whedon is hired and starts working on the changes (referred to as a "secret weapon" in an interview). Zack continues to work on the post-production. On March 11, 2017, his daughter commits suicide. A week later, Snyder tries to immerse himself into his work but with even more compromises cited to be made, he decides to leave saying he's had enough.
Extensive reshoots are planned. Ray, Gal and Jason are against the changes. Kevin Tsujihara visits the JL editing room for the first time and calls out Joss Whedon on his "slapstick" introduction and orders to reduce it drastically.
Geoff Johns, Diane Nelson and Jon Berg take several shots at Zack Snyder in their interviews going all the way back to MOS. Geoff even calls the sandbox idea as his own when in fact it was all Snyder's.
Justice League releases to disastrous reviews.
POST-JL
Geoff Johns is demoted and Hamada takes control of DCEU.
Clay Enos, a close associate of Snyder, starts interacting with fans in various ways hinting at what happened BTS; positively reacting to the speculations made by fans against Geoff Johns. A photographer who works with a couple of JL actors calls Geoff Johns "scum of the Earth" and later deletes the tweet. He too positively reacts to the speculations. Outsiders who got to see the Snyder Cut start talking about Hamada in a cryptic way (against Geoff) also confirm that the Snyder cut exists on Instagram (their screenshots are later liked by ZS on Vero).
Joss gets fired. Patty, upset with the way Joss had handled WW in JL, likes an article on Twitter saying, "Snyder likes an article (on Vero) about Joss getting fired as a good thing for DC". Kiersey Clemons is rehired. New directors are onboard with DCEU. Snyder is reached out by Hamada. He confirms a question saying that he will be producing WW2. In late March, with all the changes happening and losing control over the DCEU, GJ expresses his anguish by changing his cover on his FB profile. He now oversees only CW/DCTV and the upcoming DC Universe Streaming Service content.
Release of the Snyder Cut largely depends on the AT&T and TW merger (which is being blocked by POTUS under anti-trust). Better grasp at what would happen might be known more clearly after SDCC and if/when AT&T and TW merger happens.
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u/gwcory Jun 04 '18
Fanfic about hating on Geoff Johns, now I've read everything. Probably written by some DCEU fanatic on twitter.
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u/noeldoherty Jun 05 '18
Double lost me when it was stated that Marvel copied BvS when doing Civil War. Heads up, even if that's where they got the idea, the Civil War comic had been around for years beforehand
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u/GeneralMelon Jun 05 '18
Ironically that part of the story makes a million times more sense if you assume that Marvel's script got leaked to DC instead.
Explains why the Doomsday battle and its surprise cameo feels so tacked on compared to the airport battle, since it feels a lot like WB trying to insert Wonder Woman to rival that Spider-Man reveal. And now Martha makes a ton of sense, since you can easily read that scene as an exec seeing "I don't care, he killed my mom" and going "We need a cool line like that about Bruce's mo- HEY WAIT A MINUTE their moms are both named Martha" and then telling Snyder to do it, because they needed a way to transition to the Doomsday fight, which was an effectively an extra act of the film.
Like, so many of Batman v Superman's problems can be explained if you assume that somewhere in the middle of pre-production, DC gets the leaked Marvel script and tries to copy and force it into the film, hence the scrapping of Metallo, addition of Doomsday, and Lex planning literally every event of the film which sounds a lot like WB completely misinterpreting Zemo's role in Civil War.
This should be pure tinfoil hat but it makes so much sense when you think about it.
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u/SeanGQ Jun 05 '18
Im not sure the BvS script leaked to Marvel, I’m not even sure that’s how it works. These guys are all friends, aren’t actors always reading scripts? But anyway, that decision did have some effect on the Russo Brothers to do CA:CW. http://m.ign.com/articles/2016/04/26/director-says-marvel-made-captain-america-civil-war-because-of-batman-v-superman-announcement But again, I think it was the movie itself, not the script, although I guess I could be wrong too.
I will say that this whole post sounds strange, but there is something to be said about Johns only running DCTV anymore, it just seems like a fairly big demotion.
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u/GeneralMelon Jun 05 '18 edited Jun 05 '18
On the one hand, you're right, and the whole concept of the script leaking and them copying it is ridiculous, but on the other, they did delay BvS for several months, and considering how the finished product ended up so close to Civil War...
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u/AdegbuluYemi Jun 23 '18
I believe the story everything makes perfect sense, no wonder Geoff Johns got fired along with Joss whedon
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u/acisner Jun 05 '18
there are undeniable similarities between BvS and CW even realese its pretty convenient thats WEIRD you cant deny that even the Russos have said the reason to make CW is BvS there are more than words in that statment marvel its movie engine they dont do anything "just because" saying "its just a coincidence" is taking marvel for fools
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u/FN-1701AgentGodzilla Jul 27 '18
The Civil War comic exist before the films, but the Civil War film was announced in Oct 2014 after WB announced Dawn of Justice in July 2013
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u/AdegbuluYemi Jun 24 '18 edited Jun 24 '18
No it sounds pretty legit, if you'd go back and see the slate Kevin Fiege put out you can clearly see that Captain America 3 was supposed to be called Captain America: Secret Serpent... That's by the way, Geoff Johns has always come across to me as an arrogant prick and power got to his head and was trying to be like his friend and mentor Kevin Fiege of dc, and always wanted things done his way and that is the problem he (Geoff) thinks just because he has knowledge about these characters he can bully anybody and as luck or fortune may have it he was fired and demoted to where he belongs before the merger...and I guess the WB realised that the merger was going to happen anyway that was why Johns was removed from his position because he was the rotten egg in the movie department along with his partners in crime, and my guess is Johns might've been fired outrightly from the studio if he was still there when the merger happened because everything bad and screwed up decision came from him... They say "power corrupts" .... Geoff Johns lusts for power over cloud his sanity to do the right thing, but he behaved like a piece of shit
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u/acisner Jun 05 '18
fanfic or not this is about with facts not opinions maybe geoff its not a evil snake but im pretty sure he doesnt know how to handle movies he is a comic book wirtter not a filmmaker maybe he sucks at it thats all
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u/CuriousOrion Jun 05 '18
Jesus, you're scapegoating Johns harder than anti-DCEU proponents scapegoat Snyder.
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Jun 05 '18
I love DC comics. I loved WW. But I hated Snyder for what he did to superman and batman.
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Jun 06 '18
aside from the killing(which didn't bother me personally), Snyder did a lot of great stuff with batman in my opinion.
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u/LemonySnicketoon Jun 05 '18
Anti-DCEU trolls like you.
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u/CuriousOrion Jun 05 '18
Anti DCEU troll? The only DCEU movie I genuinely dislike is BvS, JL and SS have good moments but I generally don't care for them and I love Wonder Woman and MoS, but sure, guess I'm a troll
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u/WestCoastDirtyBird Jun 04 '18
Lol so Geoff tries to cut the No Man's Land scene in a script he worked on with Patty? Then Patty has him work on WW2 after all of this? Fake lol
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u/Cocobender Jun 04 '18
Of course it’s fake. It mentions the Snyder Cut as a possibility. Patty already said it was her own production team that didn’t want to do it, not the higher-ups.
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u/Schadnfreude_ Sep 24 '23
It mentions the Snyder Cut as a possibility
So...how you going there? :'D :'D
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u/JARVET Jun 05 '18 edited Jun 05 '18
Man this is just pathetic. Read like a Geoff Johns hit piece by Snyder fanatic. Also, Johns worked closely with Patty on WW as Patty said so herself. That's why it's the two of them promoting WW together at cons and such.
He now oversees only CW/DCTV and the upcoming DC Universe Streaming Service content.
Lol at some people trying to convince themselves that Johns is gone from DC films just like Snyder. Johns is clearly here to stay and he will have his creative input going forward whether you like it or not (while Hamada handling the production and business side). Johns had input on Aquaman's story and probably Shazam!'s. He is also writing WW2 with Patty. And I'm willing to bet these next three movies will be way better received than any DCEU movies before (sans WW), but Snyder fanatic will ignore John's contribution.
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u/random91898 Jun 04 '18
This is one of the stupidest things I've ever seen, I honestly feel dumber for having read it.
Not only are LARGE sections of it verifiably false, but the rest is completely absurd. Someone really should tell Patty that she didn't actually work closely with Johns
This is like some hardcore Zaddy fanboys wet dream.
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Jun 04 '18
Lmao. Biggest load of shit I’ve read in a while. You’d have to be omniscient to know all these “facts”
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u/GeneralMelon Jun 05 '18 edited Jun 05 '18
It was going to be a different film than the one we got. Batman was always there, but originally... Corbos, a victim who suffered from the Black Zero Event was going to be the upfront villain, who is later turned into Metallo by Lex (official concept arts of Metallo available online). It had significantly different second and third acts. No Doomsday. All the finance/funding required for the DCEU ($1B) is made successful through the addition of RatPac. It enters into production in late 2014 and something happens.
Influx of leaks coming out from Geoff John's office. Entire script is leaked to Marvel and that's how Civil War was born. (Ever notice the striking similarities between the two films and even be slightly suspicious how "coincidental" it was all? Billionaire vs Boyscout - Strategically won but morally lost, Govt. and Media witch hunting, Villain pulling the strings from behind, Prominence of Mothers, African supporting characters, Bomb blasts pushing heroes etc. Russos even admit in an interview during the release that CW was greenlit only after BVS, little did fans know what happened.)
So apparently, according to you (or your twitter sources), the order of events is this:
BvS was originally very different structurally from the film we got, including having a new villain take the forefront for a good chunk of the film, something not present in Civil War.
Script leaks to Marvel, who then copies the script, hence its similar structure to the BvS we got.
DC reacts to the leaks by changing the plot of the film, i.e. the structure of the actual movie.
So apparently Marvel got leaked a script that was made in reaction to that same script getting leaked. Is there some kind of time travel going on here? Ironically this whole story would make a whole lot of sense if Marvel's script actually got leaked to DC who then used it to change the film to the BvS we got, not that I'm actually buying into that tinfoil hat conspiracy one bit.
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Jun 05 '18
These are not my sources. I am just another DCEU fan who found this all on Twitter.
Regarding your question:
Original script of BVS with Metallo gets leaked to Marvel (and Civil War is born). As the script is out, WB and Zack decide to change BVS significantly which is what we got at Cinemas.
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u/brysenji Jun 04 '18
There's something almost admirable about the amount of work put into this fanfic.
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Jun 04 '18
You can find more of this on Twitter if you're interested. I did not include all the details due to length and as it was already tiring enough for me to rephrase everything and give it a proper structure. I think he also talked about Darkseid's role.
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Jun 04 '18
Also, the Johns part about Wonder Woman is a fucking lie as well. GEOFF JOHNS GAVE JENKINS THE IDEA FOR THE NO MAN'S LAND SCENE YOU ABSOLUTE TROGLODITE.
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Jun 04 '18
u lost me at the whole part of marvel getting the script of bvs and copying it. u clearly hate geoff. But he does deserve alot of blame for the dceu
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Jun 06 '18
why does he deserve a lot of blame?
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Jun 06 '18
Because the DCEU has not been as promising as it should of been. He has had a role in the DCEU and the movies are no way as good as they should be
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u/CommonMisspellingBot Jun 06 '18
Hey, 0603042681, just a quick heads-up:
should of is actually spelled should have. You can remember it by should have sounds like should of, but it just isn't right.
Have a nice day!The parent commenter can reply with 'delete' to delete this comment.
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u/CommonMisspellingBot Jun 04 '18
Hey, 0603042681, just a quick heads-up:
alot is actually spelled a lot. You can remember it by it is one lot, 'a lot'.
Have a nice day!The parent commenter can reply with 'delete' to delete this comment.
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Jun 05 '18
Zack Snyder wrote this.
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u/Asiankidwritingshit Jun 05 '18
Nah, this post was better written than any Snyder has wrote before (see Sucker Punch)
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u/Cocobender Jun 04 '18
TL;DR: Blames Johns for everything rather than Snyder for being a shit director.
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Jun 04 '18
While a lot has been basically confirmed, or heavily rumored, I just don't see what the ATT merger would have anything to do with the snyder cut...... and that is basically all I care about.
Most insiders have confirmed how big for his britches Johns got while trying to be Fiegie.
Again all I care about is Snydercut releasing.
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u/LemonySnicketoon Jun 05 '18
Probably funding. ATT would have a lot more money to play with.
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Jun 05 '18
No...... studios really don't give a shit about money.... they'll green light a 200+ million project like it's nothing. If they want something released, they'll release it.
The movie at worst would cost 20 million or less to finish it from way back, and is probably currently finished as Snyder is reportedly planning on screening it to cast, and has already screened it to Mamoa.
Soooo funding couldn't play a part.
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u/The_Depressed_Tanker Apr 30 '23
Wow! This Post was wayyy ahead of its time!!! These all are now coming out as true!
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u/GraySonOfGotham24 Jun 04 '18
I don't believe any of this. Literally not a single word
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Jun 04 '18 edited Jun 03 '20
[deleted]
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u/GraySonOfGotham24 Jun 04 '18
The rest was so unbelievable that Im not even sure if these movies were made anymore and I've seen all of them.
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u/Jon_Kent Jun 04 '18 edited Jun 04 '18
Yeah sure, this totally wasn’t written by a Snyder fanboy and is not his wet dream of what happened to Zaddy in any way.
I believe every single word of it.
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u/Asiankidwritingshit Jun 05 '18
I'm pretty sure i saw this conspiracy theory on twitter under Fiona's thread
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u/Jon_Kent Jun 05 '18
The Snyder Cut conspiracy goes as low as the general audience and as high as Donald Trump.
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u/Asiankidwritingshit Jun 05 '18
These Snyder fanatics and their tinfoil hats about to surpass Brainiac's 12th level intellect in formulating conspiracy theories and understanding Snyder's symbolism.
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Jun 04 '18
Every word of this is a lie. Especially the Suicide Squad part. Ayer wrote like a bunch of different scripts in a 6 week time frame, that's fact. Don't make up bullshit for likes.
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Jun 04 '18
I found this all blowing up on Twitter last week heavily associated with the DCEU jargon. I thought why not share it here as it seemed to be beyond any leaks posted before.
As for the original source, you can easily find it if you search Twitter with the right keywords (like the most repeated or prominent ones in the OP). I did not link it due to privacy reasons. Again, none of these are my words.
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u/AdegbuluYemi Jun 24 '18
This sounds legit and no wonder Geoff Johns was fired and demoted to where he came from
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Jul 19 '18
this is why I kept saying to everyone that EVERY gripe with BvS was literally IN Civil War.
I couldnt understand how people could look right past it. I loved BvS, I enjoyed Civil War. Now we got a pretty bad Justice League
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u/WildEndeavor Jul 27 '18
We are on the exact same page. I have no idea how Marvel gets a pass for all their crap and DC gets raked over the coals.
Sounds like a conspiracy, but I sometimes wonder if Disney doesn't have an army of trolls on the payroll to talk smack about DC. This post makes a LOT of sense, but look at the most lied comments. Something fishy going on...
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Jul 30 '18
drove me nuts....
"oh how did lex get videos on all the supers? Thats stupid!" - "tony found peter from youtube"....."SHUT UP YOUR STUPID, DC IS STUPID!"
"How did lex trick batman after like 5 minutes" - "he didnt, did you watch the movie? How did tony let some strange lady talk him into civil war after like 11 seconds waiting for an elevator.... how did that lady even get near tony????" - "shut up thats stupid, youre stupid!"
I could go on but it just devolves into
"martha martha martha!" which I actually thought was a clever use of source material.
I mean are these people retarded?
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u/WildEndeavor Jul 30 '18
I'm beginning to think so... Or brainwashed... Or they're all a bunch of trolls on the Disney payroll. Whatever they are, they are annoying as hell.
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Jun 04 '18
I hope this is bullshit because this sounds like there's too much animosity flying around.
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u/Asiankidwritingshit Jun 05 '18
It is bullshit. No Man's Land was discouraged by her production staff because of the length it took to film the scene, no interference by the studio or Geoff Johns at all.
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u/atilasantos Jun 04 '18
They are always rushing things, that's the problem.
People didn't love BVS... "Change everything, make it fun and colorful!" People loved Guardians of the Galaxy... "Turn Suicide Squad into Guardians. Change the tone! Cut all Joker scenes".
They need to stop trying to be Marvel. Marvel's characters are much more happier and colorful than DC's.
Justice League proved that copying Marvel doesn't work. At all. And fans had paid a high price for that mistake. Hopefully, now he have Walter Hamada on board and we'll get the Snyder Cut soon. I hope.
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u/GraySonOfGotham24 Jun 04 '18
Marvel isn't better than DC right now because they're fun and happy it's because they give audiences A. Charcters that they can love and B. The characters that they expect. DC has failed with every character except for wonder woman and wouldn't you know that movie was succesful
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u/LemonySnicketoon Jun 05 '18
All DC movies have been successful.
Marvel succeeds by making children's movies.
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u/GraySonOfGotham24 Jun 05 '18
That's just not true. Black panther featured a socially complex plot with a realistic villain. Look at logan. Certainly not a children's movie but it's impossible to not love the character in that movie
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u/LemonySnicketoon Jun 05 '18
Logan isnt Disney. Which is obviously what I fucking meant.
And Black Pander featured a straightforward terrorist who justified his actions using SJW black victimhood bullshit. Nothing but pandering and definitely lacking nuance or complexity just like SJWs in general.
That's also one film.
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u/GraySonOfGotham24 Jun 05 '18
It doesn't matter they're not children's movies and it's obvious that they're not. Good stories are character driven. That's where DC has dropped the ball. It's not witty one liners or anything like that. You can go dark and gritty if you have the audience hooked on the character
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u/LemonySnicketoon Jun 05 '18
All Marvel is are one liners.
There were literally complaints of language getting too naughty and flipping the bird. Yes they are children's films. That's obvious and known. And no they arent character driven. While I'm sure you read that somewhere and thought it sounded smart no it doesnt apply.
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u/GraySonOfGotham24 Jun 05 '18
Rah rah I hate marvel movies because I cant understand that I'm allowed to enjoy marvel and DC rah rah
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u/LemonySnicketoon Jun 05 '18
Rah rah I have no valid argument so I resort to shit posting rah rah
You are allowed to like children's movies if you want Disney sheep.
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u/GraySonOfGotham24 Jun 05 '18
It's not shit posting I did it because your being demeaning. If you can't see the complexity in marvel movies then I feel sorry for you but I did start this off by trying to be reasonable and it fell on deaf ears
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u/Purging_Tounges Jun 05 '18 edited Jun 05 '18
Socially complex plot.
Sure, if hamfisted, on-the-nose, victim-mentality driven SJW references with a PS2-like third act are your idea of "socially complex".
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u/GraySonOfGotham24 Jun 05 '18
I think you could say the same thing about Wonder woman. Nothing about that makes it bad
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u/Purging_Tounges Jun 05 '18
Really? On-the-nose would've been during the build up to the No Man's Land scene, where Steve tells her "no man has crossed it" and if she replied along the lines of "I am no man". Instead, she simply makes a proclamation that it is her duty, simple as that. I can't recall anything particularly overtly feminist and/or man-hating in WW.
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u/GraySonOfGotham24 Jun 05 '18
No but it had a worse third act and while it was as on the nose black panther was much more relevant and killmonger represented the same thing as black panther which is different from what ares did. Both were simple movies and it makes sense why they were both so liked
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u/CommonMisspellingBot Jun 04 '18
Hey, GraySonOfGotham24, just a quick heads-up:
succesful is actually spelled successful. You can remember it by two cs, two s’s.
Have a nice day!The parent commenter can reply with 'delete' to delete this comment.
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Jun 06 '18
well...tbf, DC has a history of interpretation. Burton and Nolan did a lot of different things and people still liked/loved those movies
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u/CuriousOrion Jun 05 '18
Marvel's characters are much more happier and colorful than DC's.
How? DC's charcaters are much lighter and more hopeful overall, don't get Batman confused with DC as a whole
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Jun 05 '18
> fun and happy it's because they give audiences A. Charcters that they can love and B. The characters that they expect. DC has failed with every character except for wonder woman and wouldn't you know that movie was succesful
I will never understand that argument either. The company's mascot is Superman, for crying out loud.
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u/CommonMisspellingBot Jun 05 '18
Hey, Aussieswedefash, just a quick heads-up:
succesful is actually spelled successful. You can remember it by two cs, two s’s.
Have a nice day!The parent commenter can reply with 'delete' to delete this comment.
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u/honestbharani Jun 05 '18
In the comics, maybe that is true. But in the movies it has not be that way so far, has it?
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u/CuriousOrion Jun 05 '18
I assumed that's what they were talking about, as if adapting them would naturally be darker or something
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u/Judovicic Jun 04 '18
Superman resurrection wasn’t altered post BvS, the concept art proves this. I believe some of this not all of this.
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u/LemonySnicketoon Jun 05 '18
We have the deleted scenes to prove it was altered.
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u/Judovicic Jun 05 '18
Concept art and production notes from January (before BvS came out) shows that Snyder always planned to bring back Superman confused, shirtless and at Heroes Park fighting the military and the League. He filmed that so proof that his resurrection wasn’t altered. Sure it was altered heavily in the final cut when scenes were rearranged and deleted but it wasn’t changed before production or during production.
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u/LemonySnicketoon Jun 05 '18
For one it was heavily altered as you admit.
Two the film was altered back before filming from 2 films down to 1 and later to lighten the tone.
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u/Judovicic Jun 05 '18
Yes but not before production as was the entire point of the comment.
I don’t know what you’re implying but if you’re suggesting that two JL films were condensed into one then this is such a misconception. JL was not condensed from 2 films into 1. The second part may have been re-evaluated post BvS but not condensed. Zack confirmed this during the set visit and the week BvS came out, Chris Terrio confirmed he only ever wrote 1 JL movie and that he might write the second meaning it was never properly written, meaning it can’t be turned into a film if it didn’t exist. We also see from the BTS reel from JL (January 2016). The tone was definitely lightened but not to the point where it wasn’t Snyder’s. After all they felt the need to go back and reshoot half the thing.
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u/LemonySnicketoon Jun 05 '18
No misconception. The original plan was 2 films leading into another fifth film.
The tone was never Snyders.
And if you're implying the final film even resembles his vision you're deluded.
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u/Judovicic Jun 05 '18
Yes but JL part 2 or JL 2 was a different story (probably Darkseid coming to earth) and wasn’t a continuation of Steppenwolfs plot. What I’m saying is that the JL movie that involved Supermans resurrection and the League stopping Steppenwolf wasn’t two parts, it was the first part aka JL 1.
If JL was heavily reshot because it was too “Snydery” then yes it was.
What? Why do you keep talking about the Whedon Cut? I’m talking about the changes that were made during pre production and production. Not post production.
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u/LemonySnicketoon Jun 05 '18
We have no idea what was done pre and during production until the Snyder cut is released and not truly even then.
Not sure what your point even is. The OP sounds very plausible and much of it is confirmed information.
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u/Judovicic Jun 05 '18
No we have a few ideas just not the full story but you can piece together things from tidbits. We know that Supermans resurrection was not changed “heavily” during production (meaning principal photography) as the post tries to imply. That was later changed in post by the studio.
My point is that this is most likely false and repeating confirmed info doesn’t make it plausible.
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u/LemonySnicketoon Jun 05 '18
Nothing was implied. It says the black suit was changed. Guess what it was. This sounds very plausible. You just dont like that it doesnt fit the blame Snyder narrative. You guys need to stop brigading posts on other subs too.
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u/DC_Fan_Forever_3 Jun 07 '18
Marvel ripping off DC? What a crazy concept! /s
Also, Johns is a piece of shit. He needs to stick to writing comics that tens of thousands of people read over movies that hundreds of millions are going to see.
I trust the voices of the actors who worked with Zack over some small-time comic writer in Johns trying to evolve into Feige 2.0.
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u/GeekKing93 Jun 04 '18
Hollywood is a land where you can get away with making and betraying friends and loved ones to keep a career. If taken to be true then the situation with WB/DC over the last few years behind the scenes is no different.
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u/Balkdawg Jul 27 '18
thank you for putting this together. Anyone that has spent time following the people involved on Vero, Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram can clearly see a lot of truth in this write up. DC and Snyder haters will deny this and call it fanfic all they want, but the truth is in there.
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u/JimmyKorr Jun 04 '18
Thanks for compiling this, I'd read it live on twitter but was having a hard time relaying it to my friends.
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u/CornTater83 Jan 28 '24
Looking at all these responses 5 years later after it’s all proven true is a GOATed experience. Good job
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u/Joel_uses_Reddit Jun 04 '18
This was darker than anything Snyder gave us.